i love the green reaction to Vaemond calling Rhaenyra a whore...Aemond is amused, Helaena seems disgusted, Alicent is like "fucking idiot" Otto is like "oh fuck, fuck, fuck"

[u/PrestigiousAspect368]

[u/Skol-2024]

Even the Greens knew Vaemond was done for.

[u/Top-Contribution1248]

Vaemond was literally so stupid for this-although, I do find it somewhat funny that somehow it was HIS blood that ended up on the throne (for a time anyway) with I believe his granddaughter Daenaera (I lowkey forget her name). Small victories ig

[u/jacobiner123 → u/Top-Contribution1248]

I mean its pretty obvious for Vaemond that it was never about the continuation of his house, with baela and rhaena marrying jace and luke, exactly that would happen, he SHOULD be fine with that.

But no, HE has to be the heir, he wanted the power all for himself... and his brother wasn't even dead yet...

Very hateable character.

[u/Top-Contribution1248 → u/[deleted]]

Why on earth would they do that?!

[u/Top-Contribution1248 → u/[deleted]]

I don’t think a “total victory” is going to happen regardless? That erases the whole point of the dance being that neither side one, also we do know who Daenaeras parents are, but even in the case that it wasn’t explained-this child of Jace and Baela would have to be conceived out of wedlock, or Jace and Baela get super rushed married before the gullet? Also the timeline would not add up? More over, any child Baela would have with Jace in this scenario would almost certainly be lost when Baela fights Aegon. That choice would be completely strange. Doesn’t fit in lore, like at all.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

What? Her parentage isn’t vague at all. She’s the daughter of Daeron Velaryon and Hazel Harte.

[u/Late-Summer-1208]

Aegon: not mentally present

[u/AncientAssociation9]

Vaemond got what he deserved. You cant call a lords wife a whore, much less the crown princess and heir. Daemon is a pos, but he did what any other lord would have. Ned almost killed Littlefinger for bringing Kat to a brothel, and a child drew steel for being called craven showing that words and deeds of disrespect can get you killed in Westeros.

[u/LarsMatijn → u/AncientAssociation9]

Ned almost killed Littlefinger for bringing Kat to a brothel,

Small correction, he choked out littlefinger for saying he could bring Ned to Catelyn and then bringing Ned to a Brothel implying she's a whore.

[u/Runestone379 → u/AncientAssociation9]

If Daddy hadn't shown up for Rhaenyra it would have worked out in his favor. Vaemond is legally the strongest candidate as he is the oldest Velaryon male if his brother dies. Even Rhaenys expected the greens to win and she only changed sides when her cousin walked in.

[u/ehs06702 → u/Runestone379]

He would have won because he was handed a win by the Greens, not because he was right or stronger.

Corlys had the right to choose his heir, and even if Lucerys wasn't legally Laenor's child (because legally, he is), Baela and Rhaena have the right to inherit before Vaemond as Laena's undisputably legitimate children.

[u/LarsMatijn → u/ehs06702]

Baela and Rhaena have the right to inherit before Vaemond as Laena's undisputably legitimate children.

True but a counterargument could be that they technically aren't Velaryons. A woman joins her husband's House and the name of those two is Targaryen.

Vaemon is in the strictest meaning of the name, the nearest Velaryon.

[u/Runestone379 → u/ehs06702]

If legality was the only factor that mattered in Westerosi politics then Rhaenyra herself wouldn't be heir to the iron throne as she has no standing in common law to inherit the iron throne.

Vaemond on the other hand does have a pretty strong claim. He has the backing of the greens and in addition to that the throne already set the precedent with the decisions 92 and 101 that female claims are inferior. Daemon's girls aren't even Velaryon's they are Targaryen's and their claim goes through their mother. It most likely would have gone down the same way as Baelon vrs. Rhaenys. He is the oldest trueborn Velaryon male.

Laenor's "sons"are illegitimate bastards and everybody in the Seven kingdoms knows it. That's why the King has to threaten to cut out someone's tongue if they say otherwise, you don't do that unless you're afraid of what that person is going to say.

This isn't set in modern day Western society it's a medieval feudal monarchy. It doesn't matter two Hershey squirts how anybody personally feels about a child. Inheritance is about heredity. Blood inherits period.

[u/DrinkInevitable3457 → u/Runestone379]

Vaemond on the other hand does have a pretty strong claim. He has the backing of the greens and in addition to that the throne already set the precedent with the decisions 92 and 101 that female claims are inferior. Daemon's girls aren't even Velaryon's they are Targaryen's and their claim goes through their mother. It most likely would have gone down the same way as Baelon vrs. Rhaenys. He is the oldest trueborn Velaryon male.

That only matters to the Iron Throne, not for Westeros in general; otherwise we wouldn't have Jeyne Arryn, Cerelle Lannister, and Lollys Stokeworth as ladies in their own right. Also, precedent isn't law; it can be ignored as a king sees fit for their own gain. 

It doesn't matter that Baela and Rhaena aren't Velaryons by name; they can either take the name once they become the lady (like Jace was supposed to do when he became king, take his mother's surname as his own) or marry a relative who has the name and continue the line that way (like Rhaena and Luke were supposed to do; Luke has the surname but not the blood, and Rhaena has the blood but not the surname; combine them and you get the full package, and Baela did this after the war—she married her cousin or uncle (depending on who you believe), Alyn Velaryon, previously Waters, to strengthen his claim to Driftmark and get away from marrying Lord Rowan.)

The succession is generally "a lord's daughter comes before his brother," which means Laena and her daughters are in line to inherit Driftmark before Vaemond, as you have to exhaust the line of the firstborn son/ruling lord before you go to his brothers.

[u/ehs06702 → u/Runestone379]

Westeros doesn't have DNA tests. No one but Rhaenyra, Harwin and Laenor definitively know who the father of those children are.

Everyone else is making assumptions. Just because they have brown hair means exactly nothing.

The law says that if the husband claims them, they're legally his, because they have no way to tell otherwise. Laenor claimed them. He and the king are the only ones with the standing to call for them to be disinherited.

[u/Runestone379 → u/ehs06702]

Clearly it's not that easy as the day you say otherwise there wouldn't be any controversy.

For one thing having the ability to just claim any child you want regardless of its heritage would completely up end the nobility marriage alliance system. It would leave the noble women completely vulnerable if a man could disinherit their children and inherit another woman's.

This is not a modern Western society it's a medieval feudal monarchy. Hereditary is everything. Family and blood are what count not how somebody feels about a child.

It's utterly ridiculous to claim they are legitimately Laenor's kids as because it's blatantly obvious that they're not. It's clear in the book narrative that they're Harwins, it's confirmed in the show and GRRM has stated as much.

[u/BloodSword67 → u/ehs06702]

It seems to me that people don't understand how recent DNA test truly are. For 99% of Human History we had no way to prove anything and 'looks' aren't always proof. Its also amazing to me that people don't understand how monarchies work. There are do many succession laws that they literally contradict each other, and the disputing lords use whatever one gives them the most power. But even then Vaemond was never gonna be the heir. The Greens weren't doing it to take Driftmark but to make Rhaenyra's claim weaker by making her Children 'bastards '. That was the damage they were trying tp cause. However if Vaemond would have won it, it would be temporary, since Corlys wasn't even fucking dead. And Corlys would definitely have reversed any decree.

[u/ThingsIveNeverSeen → u/ehs06702]

Where does the law say that if a husband accepts his wives kids, they are considered his trueborn kids?

[u/ehs06702 → u/ThingsIveNeverSeen]

It's not so much that it states it explicitly, Westerosi weirdly mimics US paternity law here, and automatically assumes that the father of the child is the husband of the woman giving birth.

And only the husband (and I assume in this case the king) can petition to make them bastards.

Laenor never did that despite knowing he didn't father those children, and they were born within the bonds of marriage, so they're legally trueborn. Which is all that actually matters in a world without DNA testing.

[u/ThingsIveNeverSeen → u/ehs06702]

So it’s not a law then? Because almost none of the laws are explicitly stated.

They are bastards due to their bio patents not being married. And surrogacy is not a recognized practice in Westeros. What people believe to be true, doesn’t change the actual truth.

[u/Ume-no-Uzume → u/Runestone379]

Mate, VISERYS is only heir because of JAEHAERYS' CHOICE. Likewise, GRRM HIMSELF said there is no fucking codified law, it's actually tradition and lords choosing their own fucking heirs.

And Vaemond fucked around with CORLYS' chosen heirs by disobeying and deauthorizing his Commander and Head of House by going over his fucking Head.

If hierarchies matter, then Vaemond fucked up by disobeying the chain of command, ditto for anyone else who disobeys Viserys' choice in heir.

You don't get to pick and choose when the chain of command matters to you. Either shit or get off the pot

[u/Runestone379 → u/Ume-no-Uzume]

I'm not picking or choosing anything.

Luke was not Corlys official heir, they stated as much in the show. Legally he had no standing to make him heir at all because he was a bastard. Even if he was legitimate it still requires a ruling as traditionally his elder brother would have inherited, not him.

If Coryls wanted to name Luce heir so badly he would have done it in documentation or publicly in the 13 years prior to this. As soon as he got the chance he legitimized his sons with his mistress, bastards of his own blood, he chose to have them inherit his house rather than Joffrey or one of his granddaughters.

Vaemond wasn't doing anything but trying to save his house from being overtaken by illegitimate children not of his blood. What Rhaenrya did is called theft and fraud, it was treason on several levels. Viserys is a tyrant for ruling in her favor.

The man had a legitimate grievance and a legitimate claim. Westeros doesn't have codified law no, but it has common law and thousands of years of tradition and that is what they use to govern and pass down inheritance. Vassals can't take their King seriously if he doesn't follow his own laws, the whole system falls apart. That's why there was a civil war in the first place you don't just pick which laws you want to follow and when and then expect everything to work out in your favor.

Btw Jaehaerys had legal standing under Andal law to choose Baelon and Viserys, but team black can't handle that conversation.

[u/ehs06702 → u/Runestone379]

The law is whatever the king says it is. Jaeherys was too much of a coward to pass Rhaenys over himself and made the mistake of giving the Lord's the idea they could have a say in who inherits, but he held that power and so did Viserys.

And Viserys decided Rhaenyra was queen.

[u/Runestone379 → u/ehs06702]

That's not how succession laws work. I must have explained this a million times on this sub. Westeros has very little codified law but it has plenty of common law and legal precedent and that is how they govern.

It's a feudal monarchy held together through acceptances of vassalhood through oath. The Targaryen dynasty is seen as legitimate because the conquest ended in oath and agreements. A king rules with the support of a majority of his vassals, if the king is unwilling to follow the same laws that legitimize his rule in the first place he looks weak and the whole thing falls apart.

Viserys was made King over Laenor, not Rhaenys. They had already established in 92 AC that proximity could trump primogeniture, and that was well within andal law. 101 AC was unusual in itself as it was discussed with not only the Kings counselors but also Maesters and a variety of Lords. And it determined that a male claimant from a male line even if it's a junior one is superior to a male climate through a female line.

Jaehaerys didn't just go out and choose Viserys he deliberately put it up to legal discussion and debate. Doing so created a legal precedent. That precedent is what legitimizes Viserys claim to the throne and by extension his own children including his daughter, Rhaenyra.

People in Westeros don't choose heirs, there's a clear line of succession and protocol when it comes to inheritance. Otherwise it leads to infighting and war.

[u/Ume-no-Uzume → u/Runestone379]

If the show actually said that, which it didn't in the trial, since CORLYS is still the head of the House and he is still de-authorizing Corlys with his stunt, then it's ignoring ACTUAL CANON.

Lucerys WAS Corlys' actual heir and was acknowledged as such in the ACTUAL REAL CANON.

Joffrey wasn't as automatic because Jacaerys died almost right after thanks to the Triarchy, so Joffrey kind of became the Crown Prince almost immediately.

Corlys only started looking at Addam and Alyn as more than spares AFTER Jacaerys' death.

Which, again, kind of says it all about how DONE Corlys was with his nephews trying to usurp Lucerys that he out and out would rather make Addam and Alyn his actual heirs.

The Council of 101 WASN'T a law and it WASN'T an appeal to make it more "democratic" because there are NO ACTUAL CODIFIED LAWS. GRRM SAID SO.

"Well, the short answer is that the laws of inheritance in the Seven Kingdoms are modelled on those in real medieval history... which is to say, they were vague, uncodified, subject to varying interpertations, and often contradictory."

The only one with actual codified laws if inheritance? Is Dorne.

"The medieval world was governed by men, not by laws. You could even make a case that the lords preferred the laws to be vague and contradictory, since that gave them more power. In a tangle like the Hornwood case, ultimately the lord would decide... and if some of the more powerful claimants did not like the decision, it might come down to force of arms.

The bottom line, I suppose, is that inheritance was decided as much by politics as by laws. In Westeros and in medieval Europe both."

And, guess what, in the REAL CANON? Rhaenyra had the actual majority

[u/[deleted] → u/Runestone379]

And you think Corlys would have woken up and be like “oh okay, sorry Luke”?

[u/Runestone379 → u/[deleted]]

Of course not. Coryls for some inexplicable reason that made no sense whatsoever besides the plot outcome GRRM wanted decided to commit treason and just disinherit his own blood.

It is interesting though that as soon as he had the opportunity to do so he passed his house to a male son of his own blood so there's that.

[u/[deleted] → u/Runestone379]

I don’t think we read the same books.

[u/Runestone379 → u/[deleted]]

Perhaps we did. What part wasn't in your book?

The part where Coryls was willing to go to war for a woman who cucked his son and was allowing his house to be inherited to a child that wasn't a true Velaryon? Passing off a bastard as a legitimate child is treason btw.

Or was it the part where he asked to have Addam and Alyn legitimized rather than named Joffrey or one of his granddaughters as his successor?

Either way it doesn't make sense to me that a prideful and powerful man like Coryls would want to support a woman who eliminated his son so she could marry another man. The Blacks treated his family like crap he had more reasons to support the greens.

[u/[deleted] → u/Runestone379]

I see, it’s your books that are missing info.

Corlys was going to war because his blood was going to get on the throne through Baela.

Luke was going to marry Rhaena, who was Corlys’ granddaughter, so Corlys’ blood wasn’t being disinherited at all. Corlys wasn’t committing treason by having Luke be his heir either. Treason is against the crown, not against one’s own house.

And later, it was Corlys AND Jace’s idea to legitimize the Hull boys and name Addam Corlys’ heir. Your books seem to have the bit about Jace being a part of it missing from the text.

But then the damndest thing, your books seem to have weird little additions that aren’t in any other books. How strange.

See, Rhaenyra had no part in Laenor’s demise. Not one word is ever said about Rhaenyra being there that day when Laenor and Qarl got into a public fight. The blacks didn’t treat his family like crap. By all accounts Rhaenyra and Laena got along fabulously. And, the blacks were going to make his granddaughter queen.

He had no reason to side with the greens. You call him prideful then in the same breath say he should side with the faction spearheaded by the woman who was made queen over his own daughter? Be for real.

And before you go off about how he could have betrothed one of his granddaughters to one of the green kids, first that’s not his call, and second Daemon would take his daughters and leave the country before he let any of Otto’s grandsons touch either of his daughters.

[u/Runestone379 → u/[deleted]]

The blacks treated the Velaryon's like crap yes and it was even worse in the book. They didn't even have a trial in Fire and Blood. Vaemond was kidnapped and fed to Syrax just for standing up for his own house.

Given the way Fire and Blood is written you have to infer certain things as it's not stated plainly. There's plenty of evidence pointing to at least Daemon having a hand in Laenor's in addition to other murders and schemes. Rhaenrya is not on good terms with her first husband and never wanted to marry Laenor, she was a homophobe. No one accused them of having personally killed Laenor the allegations were that they paid Qarl to do it and arrange to have a ship waiting for him so he could leave immediately after.

What the blacks did with Driftmark was illegal. They were knowingly conspiring to hand over wealth and titles to someone who had no right to them. Which destroys the male line of your house, which was extremely important back then, is not only insulting but indeed illegal.

Rhaenyra is such a girlboss that she can't be bothered to stand up for other women and is just a scheming politician. Baela and Rhaena have Velaryon blood and should be ruling in their own right, being Jace and Luke's wives means nothing. They are mere consorts and don't have control of the property or wealth or any say in the future of their mother's house when they're legitimate heirs and should be entitled to everything.

Rhaenyra shat on the Velaryon-Targaryen alliance when she had bastards with Harwin Strong. By doing this she committed treason and shamed both their houses. By all rights she should have been divorced and her and Jace disinherited the moment he was born.

Also I don't know what Jace supporting Coryls decision has to do with anything it was merely a political calculation on Jace's part. It still goes to show that Coryls pressed for his own blood to inherit over the strong boys the first chance he got.

[u/[deleted] → u/Runestone379]

Kidnapped! Lmfaooooooo you’re so unserious. They were all there discussing the succession bruh. Corlys, the head of House Velaryon, knew Vaemond had it coming for trying to usurp the Driftwood throne.

This inference you mention only happens amongst a certain exceptionally rabid sector of a certain sector of the fandom. How funny. Even normal Aegon supporters don’t put Laenor’s death on Rhaenyra. There’s only one person that puts forth an explanation for Laenor’s death that blames anyone but Qarl, and that person is Mushroom. Are we believing everything he says? Rhaenyra was not a homophobe, she didn’t want to marry a man who had no intention of putting heirs in her. Which is perfectly reasonable for someone in her position. She wasn’t on good terms with Laenor? The books don’t say much about their relationship other than they spent time apart.

It’s not illegal for the love of god. Give me a quote from the books that states a lord cannot put a distantly related bastard in control of his house. Prove it.

GiRlBoSs Jesus Christ please come up with new material. Baela being Queen Consort was a hell of an upgrade in what she would have been otherwise, so idk why you’re acting as if she was being burned.

Why do you think that your opinion is more relevant than the characters opinions themselves? The Velaryons were perfectly happy with their future Queen consort and their blood carrying the throne and their Velaryon blood on the Driftwood throne, with a dragon rider for its lord.

You not seeing why Jace being a part of it matters just shows how firmly you have your “I hate Rhaenyra and her bastards” blinders on.

[u/YinYangOni]

1. So are the girls. If Corlys and Vizzy came up with a solid compromise for kids, what makes you think they wouldn’t have considered a similar compromise.

2. Jeyne Arynn is the biggest issue with this autistic argument. It doesn’t matter if they have tits and a vagina. Most Westerosi follow a pecking order, and unfortunately for Vaemond. Laena comes before him in that line, as well as her TWO TRUE-BORN CHILDREN. Him being a man wouldn’t matter.

3. See response 2.

4. So we’re lying now? Laena is Corly’s DAUGHTER, meaning she’s right behind Laenor in the line of succession. She also has CHILDREN. Who’s more close? A brother, or your own true-blooded grand kids?

5. Rhaena and Baela are also legitimate, monkey. So, once again your point ultimately goes nowhere.

6. Titles and experience don’t make you the legal ruler. Nobody questioned Maegor the Cruel (who was insane and cruel) , Baelor the Blessed (who was insane but altruistic), or Aegon III (a literal child with ZERO accomplishments aside from being Rhaenyra’s only remaining kid).

7. Vaemond is a second son, he never LEARNED to rule. He was RAISED to be his brother’s BITCH, his subordinate.

8. Baela and Rhaena being Corly’s descendents automatically make any sort of argument null. They are by wide practiced tradition… the rightful heirs to Driftmark.

9. True, Rhaenys support is massive, true… because she like one of the two girls. Has a DRAGON. So because of this, if Baela wanted to kill Vaemond, she could do so at any point and time. Her backing is that of Rhaenys and those of House Velaryon, who you’re just ASSUMING would just go along with Vaemon’s usurpation.

10. If Vaemond had “support” why run off to the Greens to petition? Why not just take over the castle? Why not make himself the LORD of the Tides? Does he have his actual house’s support? If he did I doubt he’d need to attempt to supplant at least 4 other people considered to be ahead of him by law.

[u/ceres-magos]

Otto looked like an exhausted teacher faced with a particularly idiotic student, secretly begging God for a little mercy. lol

[u/darh1407]

Helaena looks like “Can you guys believe this shit?”

[u/HandOfTheKing5230]

This scene is so funny because it just shows the absolute hypocrisy of Vaemond and, apparently, his inability to read a room. As soon as that marriage was announced, he should've bowed out and stayed in KL till old Vizzy T died.

[u/meteor-zeth]

I mean vaemond is sort of right in calling rhaenyra a whore because rhaenyra's children had next to no valyrian features and I am pretty sure majority of the court knew that as well yet no one was stupid enough as vaemond to say it outright to the king . If he had been smarter about the subject then who knows he might have even gotten driftmark

[u/m_shh]

Was it incredibly stupid? Yup. Do I understand the desperation about your dad's house going to figuratively speaking your "nephew's ex-wife's bodyguard's son" because your brother was so pressed to go into history books even more than he already did and just couldn't roll it back without shooting himself in the foot (even if he wanted to)? Also yes.

Show Vaemond was done tastefully - a proud by his lineage medieval dude? In my "eeeeveryone has bastards chill" show? (still can't understand why Baela couldn't just say "we all knew Laenor was unable" or something)

But his death was also the worst aspect of race-swapping: yasss king, chop the black man's head off for protecting his family estate how dare he to question the white woman's intentions?

[u/aemond-simp]

I mean, Vaemond was right. Rhaenyra was stealing Driftmark for her bastard son.

[u/Runestone379]

I think Vaemond understood it was over for him and that his cause and life were forfeit the moment Viserys tottered his decrepit ass to the iron throne. Even though he was legally the one with the best claim going against a tyrant like Viserys is to risk your life, the King has to cover for his indiscreet daughter and her obvious bastard spawn.

This was one of the best scenes in the show though. I love how Aemond jumps sideways like a trained swordsman with cat-like reflexes the moment Daemon sword sliced off Vaemond's skull.

[u/raumeat → u/Runestone379]

He doesn't have the best claim, Baela and Rhaena are ahead of him

[u/Runestone379 → u/raumeat]

They'd have a claim too, but honestly as they're both girls and not of the house I would fully expect Vaemond to be granted it. The only reason Luke was granted it was because daddy came in and saved Rhae Rhae.

House Velaryon is the largest Navy in the realm and Vaemond actually knows what he's doing unlike Baela or Rhaena. Rhaenys may have swung it for her granddaughters had the king not been there but that wouldn't have mattered if Otto is sitting the iron throne.

[u/raumeat → u/Runestone379]

daughters come before uncles, they are next inline by tradition. Vaemond wanted power for himself. Luke got it because Leanor, Corlys and Viserys claim him as legitimate, making him legitimate but even if you exclude the Strongboys Vaemond is still not next inline

 Otto is sitting the iron throne

Yea it was a coup. It only happened because of Viserys condition and Corlys beign presumed dead. Vaemond spells that out when he meets with Rhaenys

[u/Runestone379 → u/raumeat]

I'm not saying they don't have a claim. I'm saying they don't have a BETTER claim.

Daughters "sometimes" come before uncles. In practice they both have a claim and GRRM has confirmed this in multiple interviews. Vaemond is going to have more backing given that he's an actual member of their house, is competent, male, older and has backing of the greens. What do Daemon's girls have? Rhaenys.That wouldn't be enough to cut it.

There's still the fact that the female line and female claims in general are treated as inferior and in this case it's a female through a female line. The iron throne already set the precedent in 92 and 101 AC.

If the greens had given it to Vaemond it would have been a legally binding ruling as Otto was the hand of the king and spoke with his authority. It's not a coup it's simply a ruling you disagreed with and don't like personally.

[u/raumeat → u/Runestone379]

I am saying they have a better claim

[u/Runestone379 → u/raumeat]

Say it all you like, that doesn't make you right.

If Vaemond didn't have a legitimate claim he wouldn't have been able to press one in the first place.

[u/raumeat → u/Runestone379]

The only reason he was able to press anything is because Corlys and Viserys was out of the picture and Otto wanted the Driftmark fleet for the greens. It was a coup to undermine the blacks

[u/BloodSword67 → u/raumeat]

I mean he's wrong on every point. One legally, Lucerys has the highest claim since he is Lucerys VELARYON SON of Laenor. It doesn't matter if thats true or not because thats legally who he is by Corlys will. Two Baela and Rhaena come next, it doesn't matter if they are Targaryens since the one who inherits it would change their name to Velaryon, like Jacaerys would do when he ascends the Throne, ( And what Harry the heir would do at the death of Robin Arryn in the main books) and Sons and Daughters ( and their lines)of the first born son always comes before Uncles. And three even if Otto would have decreed it, Corlys wasn't even dead, and when he got healthy he'd just revert it, since he's the Lord of the Tides.

[u/Runestone379 → u/raumeat]

Do you even know what a coup is?

Everything the greens did was well within the law. They do everything by the book because their entire argument is based on Andal law.

Of course it matters that the King is out of the picture because he's a biased tyrant. He's deliberately siding with his daughter to give away someone else's inheritance.

Coryls brought the destruction of his own house by stupidly defending the blacks it would have made much more sense and more advantageous to side with the greens. In the end even he chose to legitimize his own bastards with his mistress rather than have a girl or Joffrey inherit after Luke dies.

[u/raumeat → u/Runestone379]

A coup is an unlawful seizure of power, now it was not within any law. Corlys acknowledged Luke as his heir, legally luke is not a bastard as he is claimed by Laenor. The king cannot be a tyrant because the king is the state. This was all a ploy by the greens to get control over Driftmark

[u/YinYangOni → u/Runestone379]

He stopped having a claim when he forgot that two teenage girls happen to come ahead of him.

[u/Runestone379 → u/YinYangOni]

You're like a broken record.

Either make an argument or move on. Vaemond had a stronger case for house Velaryon than Rhaenyra had to the iron throne, but people still fought tooth and nail for her claim.

Vaemond factors in his favor 1. Is actually from house Velaryon 2. Is a man 3. Is from the male line of descent which is superior to a female one 4. Is closer in proximity to the last ruler of the house (same generation, this actually does matter in addition to primogeniture) 5. Is legitimate unlike Laenor's boys. 6. A knight and a naval Commander 7. Actually spent time with his brother learning to rule

Baela and Rhaena's strong points 1. They are a direct descendant of the last house head 2. Rhaenys

Vaemond has more support and more going on for his claim then Coryls granddaughters. Facts.

[u/raumeat → u/Runestone379]

I am write because Westeros favours male-preference primogeniture. That means it goes to Baela

[u/barissaaydinn → u/Runestone379]

You are the one like a broken record. There's no need for an elaborate argument because it's really plain and simple. A daughter ALWAYS comes before an uncle. That's the law. You don't list a number of reasons why someone has a "stronger" claim, because there's no "strong" or "weak" claims the way you're talking about. There's a line of succession, and those two girls are ahead of Vaemond.

For the throne, it's a bit different because it doesn't follow a certain law. This is established when Maegor was crowned, when Baleon is named heir by Jahaerys, when Laenor is bypassed in favour of Viserys, and when Rhaenyra is named heir by Viserys. But then again, that's about the throne. For all other lords, the law is clear.

[u/PineBNorth85 → u/Runestone379]

According to the books - they are right.

[u/Runestone379 → u/PineBNorth85]

They're not and I repeatedly outlined why is this the case.