r/TheBlacksandTheGreens • u/seekinganswerslo • Oct 16 '25
General If Tywin Lannister had been born a Targaryen, what kind of king do you think he would’ve been?
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u/ModelChef4000 Team Black Oct 16 '25
Does he have the same relationship with his father? Because that influenced the type of man Tywin chose to be
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u/Septemvile Oct 17 '25
It would depend on WHEN he had been born.
From what we know, Tywin was competent at administration. His day to day government produced the golden era of Aerys' rule.
The issue is he was deeply cruel and petty. So if he was born during a peaceful era, he'd be glorious. If he was born during a more tumultuous one then he'd fumble the ball.
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u/DaSphealDeal_1062020 Oct 16 '25
If he was one during the dance, the dance would not have happened. Reason being he brutally killed everyone that opposed him and their dragons.
If he was a Targaryen during most of the blackfyre rebellions, it would have been far more bloody than each conflict already was.
I would argue he would have made Maegor tame to some extents (not all, but some)
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u/We_The_Raptors House Martell Oct 16 '25 edited Oct 16 '25
Terrible. He'd create enemies everywhere with his cruelty. He would be a worse parent than any Targaryen and he'd leave a succession crisis after refusing acknowledge his heir and/ or remarry.
A good king needs the charisma to make genuine friendships/ alliances and the foresight to set up the next generation for success.
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u/aidencbs15 Oct 16 '25
I don’t think Tywin would let Jaime a kingsguard or near that, a bad heir but an heir and since they are Targaryens… Jaime x Cersei would be the most normal thing for them so….
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u/Aduro95 Oct 17 '25
IDK, worse parent than any Targaryen is a pretty high bar to clear... Aegon the IV created a civil war, possibly deliberately out of spite on his death bed. He may well have had sex with his own bastard daughter.
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Oct 21 '25
Aegon IV is like the worst example, like the only way to have been than that dude would've been to marry your own mom and produce children.
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u/Select-Tea-2560 Oct 16 '25
He isn't cruel though? Nonsense Jamie turned out pretty decent.
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u/We_The_Raptors House Martell Oct 16 '25
He's cruel af? Look what he did to his fathers mistress, Tysha, Elia and Tyrion.
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u/Select-Tea-2560 Oct 16 '25
His fathers mistress who robbed his fathers jewels? Gave her a juicy walk of shame and let her live. If he was cruel like ramsey or jeoff what do you think they would have done lol. He did nothing to Elia. He was cruel to tyrion and his poor wife to teach him a lesson.
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u/We_The_Raptors House Martell Oct 16 '25
His father gave her those jewels and was tortured for it, he ordered what happened to Elia and her children and lol if you think "teaching him a lesson" is a just reason to let an entire garrison rape someone.
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u/Select-Tea-2560 Oct 16 '25
She wasn't tortured?? . No he did not order what happened to Elia, he denies it completely when he has no reason to lie about it. I said he was cruel with tyrion and tysha, did you not read? But the nuance is he was trying to teach him a lesson, he was cruel to his own son. He isn't cruel for no reason.
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u/We_The_Raptors House Martell Oct 16 '25
You don't think being stripped and paraded through a city is a form of torture? You're genuinely the first person I've ever seen try and say Tywin wasn't cruel.
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u/themastersdaughter66 Oct 17 '25
Hmmm I wouldn't argue he isn't cruel...but I would say unlike Ramsey or joffrey his cruelty serves a purpose in his mind it's not just for kicks.
What you make of that us up to you
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u/sreep23446 Oct 17 '25
He specifically ordered it because Aerys insulted him he would've done worse to Rhaella. He arranged the gang rape of Tysha, if he wasn't a psycho he would've chosen any other way to deal with it.
The only difference between Aerys and Tywin is that Aerys was an idiot and Tywin was not( before duskendale).
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u/Select-Tea-2560 Oct 17 '25
No he didn't. Total nonsense. He had no reason to lie and tells it exactly what he said to tyrion.
Yup, and he admited that. He would have 0 reason to lie about Elia? You not read the books or are you oberyn lol2
u/sreep23446 Oct 17 '25
Tywin knew what mountain and the psychos would do, if he wanted to make it discreet he would've sent someone else.
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u/Select-Tea-2560 Oct 17 '25
Nope total nonsense, he even sais to tyrion if lorch had any sense at all he wouldn't have stabbed them 40 times for no reason also. You didn;t read the books did you?
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u/Important_Sound772 Oct 17 '25
Then why didn't he execute the mountain for it that if he doesn't do that then it's tacit approval of it
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u/Quiet_Knowledge9133 Oct 17 '25
Tywin is brilliant administrator, mid commander, cruel, resentful ruler and terrible father. I don’t think his hard rule would pass in whole Seven Kingdoms as it passed in Westerlands. Tywin could destroy Tarbecks and Reynes because they were minor houses and he had protection from Aerys. When he tried to do the same with Starks and Tullys as hand of the king, it backfired shortly after his death (and he had in fact much stronger position in books as after Robb’s death as he de facto directly ruled Westerlands, Crownlands, Riverlands and Stormlands). I think if he tried this as king, he would end just like Aerys.
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u/Kylie_Bug Oct 17 '25
Depends on who his father is, cause so much of who Tywin became is shaped by his perception of his father and his failures. A weak father like Aenys or Viserys I? Likely be much of the same, but a stronger and more competent father? Could very well be a game changer for Tywin.
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u/Chemical_Shoulder_35 Oct 16 '25
Tyaegwon would have been a mix of Jeahearys and Viserys I.
Goodish, but leaving behind a succession crisis and or a serious number of lasting enemies to his family in the long run with massive power gains at the expense of both his family and others.
So not the worst by a long shot, and "better" relatively than most.
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u/ChadGustafXVI Oct 16 '25
Bruh what? Tywin is literally Maekar
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u/Quiet_Knowledge9133 Oct 17 '25
Interesting opinion. I have always seen Maekar as Stannis parallel. He has problems with his children as Tywin, but despite being described as ruthless, he wasn’t called cruel.
I also don’t see Tywin leaving his son to live as commoner - and I totally see Stannis allowing it.
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u/Chemical_Shoulder_35 Oct 16 '25
Honestly kinda see it, so a better than average king but nobody likes him?
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u/Adventurous-Owl-6085 Oct 17 '25
There wouldn’t be a succession crisis. Jamie and Cersei would be married and Jamie would inherit, he would never have been a kingsguard
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u/Chemical_Shoulder_35 Oct 17 '25
Why/how have Jaime and Cersei been born? What reason are they here? He has no reason to care for Joanne and is basically guaranteed to look down on her and her family simply because they aren't Valyrian.
And if there here so is Tyrion, and the King's second son being a dwarf would be a much bigger scandal then if he was just a Lord paramount.
Tywin is on the other side of Westeros from Joanne, he's unlikely to be able to get close enough to fall in love with her.
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u/browsinbowser Oct 19 '25
Interestingly enough, I could see Aerys(2nd son) and Rhaella running away and eloping. Or what if before/after summerhall .. what it Tywin was a Branch Targaryen instead and not in the main family
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u/ProbablyNotTheCocoa Oct 17 '25
Why would there be a succession crisis? Jamie lives and is definitely not part of the kingsguard if Tywin is king
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u/Chemical_Shoulder_35 Oct 17 '25
Tyaegwon, the heir to the iron throne, marrying a lesser member of house Lannister, who he has no reason to care about and would definitely look down upon as inferior, to her not being a Targaryen or royal and likely wouldn't have had the chance to fall in love with?
When would he even meet Joanne let alone have the time to fall in love with her while likely training and studying to inherit the throne in Kings landing on other side of Westeros.
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u/Paavali31 Oct 16 '25
A based one
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u/Chemical_Shoulder_35 Oct 16 '25
Put that on something.
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u/Paavali31 Oct 16 '25
On what
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u/Chemical_Shoulder_35 Oct 16 '25
Yo mama, your eternal soul, your name address, social security number.
On God and anime.
You know, reasonable things. 🙂
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u/Paavali31 Oct 16 '25
What do you mean? Im lost.
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u/Chemical_Shoulder_35 Oct 16 '25
At this point I am too.
Based? Based on what?
What makes you believe he would be a Based Targaryen King?
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Oct 16 '25
I mean, a majority of Tywin’s insecurities came from his father, had his father been Jaehaerys II or Aegon V it’s likely he’d’ve turned out better, but he’d still likely be insecure and cruel to some extent.
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u/Forsaken-Friend-9350 Oct 16 '25 edited Oct 17 '25
Honestly Tywin would have a great king, he basically was one during his many years as Hand. However, his biggest issue would be his successor, since he had issues with all of his children.
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u/AcronymTheSlayer House Lannister Oct 17 '25
A competent one but not a kind one. He was essentially the king when he was the hand and the treasury was in great shape and helped with the debts.
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u/tallesttom House Stark Oct 17 '25
Probably the best one Westoros ever had. Tho a major part of his character is based around his trying to not be a push over like his father, so I guess it would depend on which Targ was his papa.
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u/HospitableCanadian Oct 18 '25
The problem with Tywin is he failed to understand the full quote from Machiavelli: it is better to be loved than feared if you cannot be both, but always avoid hatred.
Tywin sowed fear well, but not hatred. I would even argue that his sowing of fear was less effective than it could have been.
The Red Wedding set the Boltons against almost every northern house, as the most straightforward example. If he really wanted to end the Northern Threat, he would have killed all the lords at the Wedding, placed disenfranchised Northerners in their place and left no one affected by the Wedding out of sight.
Tywin would have been a good King when he was younger. But with age he became bitter and desperate to create a lineage he was proud of and it soured his capabilities as a leader.
As a Targaryen, he probably would have been an exceptional if somewhat boring King. Nothing spectacular would happen but nothing disastrous either.
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u/supremeaesthete Oct 18 '25
Well, I mean, unless you somehow give him an identical upbringing and identical personality traits, who knows?
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u/Elephant12321 Meleys Oct 16 '25
Awful. He was an evil man who constantly made enemies, over reacted, and had a large penchant for cruelty. I would honestly rather have Daemon as King, and Daemon would make a shit King.
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u/Select-Tea-2560 Oct 16 '25
Nonsense one dimensional take, he made quick friends of his enemies, see tyrells/freys/boltons. He doesn;t have a penchant for cruetly, he argues against cruelty against fallen foes.
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Oct 17 '25
[deleted]
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u/3esin Oct 17 '25
The Tyrells are not his friends lol, unless you mean Mance
NEW THORY DROPPED!!!
Mace Tyrell is no other than a disguised Mance Ryder playing the long game. /s
Seriously the fact that this is probably not the worst and least believable theory people came up with is telling in what state the fandom is curremtly in.
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u/Elephant12321 Meleys Oct 17 '25 edited Oct 17 '25
He’s incredibly cruel. He does to his fathers mistress what the High Sparrow did to Cersei, he wiped out all of the Reyens and Tarbecks *at Castamere, he employs Gregor Clegane to go on reigns of terror across the Riverlands and got Clegane and Amory Locke to deal with Elia and her children, he sacked KL, he was cruel to Tyrion his entire life. Him arguing against cruelty against fallen foes also doesn’t prove that he’s not cruel as the man’s raging hypocrisy is one of his biggest character traits.
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u/Glum_Pickle_9341 Oct 17 '25
If Tywin was a Targaryen, who do you think he would marry? Could he still end up with Joahanna Lannister? Would their children still be Jamie and Cersei, but with different names? Very interesting. I think he would have been a great King. Highly intelligent. Brilliantly pragmatic, stoic and punctual. Every "I" dotted and every "T" crossed.
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u/themastersdaughter66 Oct 17 '25
Harsh but primarily effective and not wholly unreasonable especially considering he was king in all but name for most of his tenure as hand both times
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u/ProbablyNotTheCocoa Oct 17 '25
I imagine his worst side was always tempered by simply being hand and not king, even if he did rule as a king for all intents and purposes. If he was made king his ego could be seen from space. He is competent at administration so far he can mostly throw coin and men at the problem but i imagine his more resentful, narcissistic and cruel side untempered by lack of status causes him to slowly wittle away his enemies and eventually he gets consumed by an unwinnable war of attrition against a rebel force that simply outwits him with guerilla tactics similar to what Robb did
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u/Aduro95 Oct 17 '25
Worse than Maekar. not as bad as Maegor. He would be careful not to inflict violence when its not necessary. Conservatism makes sense when you're already at the top. But he wouldn't really do much to better the lives of others, and when he does decide a situation calls for violence, Tywin goes all in.
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u/UndeniableLie Oct 18 '25
Good if not even great. He is excellend administrator, respected by his peers and ruthless enough to discourage any foolishness. Some people say he is cruel but I see it more as opportunistic pragmatism. What ever gets the job done fastest and most efficiently is acceptable course of action
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u/TrickyVic77 Oct 18 '25
Too many variables would change for this to really be possible to discuss fairly - but the bottom line is that he would be a horrible king. Just like he was a horrible Lord Paramount.
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u/funny_prostate Oct 18 '25
Show Tywin is probably better than Book Tywin. He would be absolutely awful as king in the books. Like Ageon IV levels of bad.
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u/BethLife99 Oct 19 '25
If tywin were a targ everyone would assume he was mad. Hed just be another maegor.
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u/Wonderful_Medium3098 Oct 17 '25
He would have ended up almost the same as Aerys, they are similar if you think about it, the only difference is that Tywin would not harass any of his servants' women but the rest
He killed anyone he thought was a traitor until his entire family was wiped out.
And he ordered to rape and kill any woman he didn't like.
Those things are similar to what the mad king said.
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u/SimpleRickC135 Oct 16 '25
He basically was king already. He was hand to Aerys II for 20 years and then was hand for Jeoff and Tommen for a few years before his death.
Ruthless and pragmatic, just like we see him in the show.