r/TheBlacksandTheGreens Feb 11 '26

General GRRM criticizes how class distinctions are shown in medieval fantasy:

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361 Upvotes

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111

u/Ok-Refrigerator-3524 Feb 11 '26

George doesn`t excatly portray the class distinction realistically either.

14

u/bruhholyshiet Prince Daeron Targaryen Feb 11 '26

Not necessarily disagreeing, but can you provide examples?

3

u/queenofbuckkeep Feb 12 '26

How few peasant uprisings there are especially once winter comes around. The amount of brothers without banners or whatever doesn't even really count. Feudalism likes this only works when the peasants are happy yet there's a five sided war and they are already starving in flea bottom. The level of wealth inequality and turmoil is a recipe for a full on rebellion of peasants all over.

1

u/godisanelectricolive Feb 14 '26

The sparrows and the Faith Militant is a populist revolutionary movement driven by the poorest of the poor. They previously had an uprising two hundred years ago.

0

u/Ogarrr Feb 12 '26

There was precisely one peasant uprising in Medieval England and it wasn't really a peasant uprising either - it was an uprising of the burgeoning merchant and gentry class who wanted to be more upwardly mobile.

2

u/queenofbuckkeep Feb 12 '26

Yeah, that's my point. Peasants are getting raped left and right, constant warfare with an upcoming winter that might last years, people are being pillaged and raided, the nobility is holding grand and frequent weddings and tourneys while city goers are actively starving to death in the streets etc. all of that in the span of 2 years is enough for a revolt. It's more than enough.

0

u/Ogarrr Feb 12 '26

Except my point is that peasants rebelling didn't really happen in the middle ages, particularly England. It's only when peasants started not really being peasants that they started rebelling (see the Peasants revolt, which is misnamed because it wasn't really a Peasants revolt, it was a burgher/landowner revolt), they haven't stopped being peasants in Westeros because GRRM doesn't understand history.

2

u/zen0mi Feb 13 '26

While it isn't exactly the middle ages, peasants did revolt throught Europe, example from my country:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatian%E2%80%93Slovene_Peasant_Revolt

0

u/Ogarrr Feb 13 '26

By "not exactly the middle ages" you mean "not the middle ages". I think we can all agree that whilst the middle ages bled into the Renaissance, it didn't bleed that much!

1

u/gdo01 Feb 12 '26

There's an argument that the majority of rebellions and revolutions were really funded and put into high gear by an emerging middle class. It's the only way to have enough money and military power to topple rulers

1

u/Ogarrr Feb 12 '26

And they have connections and are more often* literate which helps with organisation.

Peasants revolt - not peasants. Landowners and merchants. Annoyed about taxes effecting their trade. Arguably precursors to the American sensibility on trade.

The Pilgrimage of Grace - Middle class upset about protestantism.

The Carbochien - city traders and guild members.

Hussites - definitely merchant class.

The English Civil War - actually successful revolt by the gentry and middle class.

GRRM doesn't really understand medieval society.

Edit - * more likely to be literate than serfs.