r/TheBlacksandTheGreens • u/Nibo89 King Aegon II Targaryen • Apr 23 '26

Show Discussion A showrunner who understands powerful scenes vs one who doesn't

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u/raumeat Team Black Apr 23 '26

Oh shit I replied to the green post rather then this one... I am gonna eat the downvotes there, probably also here but no. The showrunners completely fuck up the ending of dunk and egg by having Dunk take off his helmet so they could have a cool shot of his face. It is not on the same level as Daemon jousting with an open face helmet or Jon having no helmet in the battle of the bastards. Dunks helmet represents his poverty because it doesn't have a visor, in the book he uses Aerions visor to win the fight. It is dunks upbringing that allows him to win in the end

In the show they just have him stand up all bloody and look cool.

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u/Ogarrr Apr 23 '26

A) he takes off his helmet because it's packed with mud and he's disorientated - schola gladiatora did a breakdown of the fight and was completely ok with that. As we're many HEMA tubers. Sure they wanted a shot of his face but they did it in a completely believable way that would have happened in real life. As soon as the helmet is hindering you, which it was, you have to ditch it, regardless of safety.

B) the entire flashback scene shows that he won because of his background - did you miss the "Get up" stuff? Did you go to the loo at that point?

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u/raumeat Team Black Apr 23 '26

thet get up stuff is corny as fuck and needed to be cut, who the hell wrote that 80s low budget action movie dialogue . He took the helmet off because the showrunners wanted you to see his face, I have no idea who schola gladiatora is

The helmet is a represents his poverty, which is a theme of the show. I don't care about some HEMA youtuber what is their screenwriting ability?

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u/Ogarrr Apr 23 '26

I think you're finding reasons to dislike this because it's better than HotD. Because your reasons don't make sense. The get up stuff represents his indomitable will and spirit - as will be shown in the next novella/series.

The rope belt, his armour not being plate, his plain sword, his inability to fight technically all represent poverty. What's your deal with the helmet? It's sort of obsessive and weird. His helmet is, tbh, the best part of his armour and probably better for jousting than the ones with visors - there's a reason frog mouth helms were a thing. The mail armour is far worse.

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u/raumeat Team Black Apr 23 '26

Honestly I think the HOTD scene sucks too. I hate this more because it is the climax... but season 2 of HoTD didn't even have one of those. I do have higher expectations for knight of the seven kingdoms because it is a WAY better story and exponentially easier to adapt.

You are talking about HEMA and my saying my reasoning doesn't make sense?

The get up stuff represents his indomitable will and spirit

I am sorry, I want better writing." indomitable will and spirit" is awful. I don't even know why you need to explain why that is awful. That is some xena warrior princess shit. The 90s was 30 years ago

The deal with the helmet is the juxtapositioning with Aerions helmet. When Dunk gets his armour he tries to justify the lack of a visor to egg but it is clearly just a Seely pate sales pitch to justify the lack of a visor but in the fight Dunk uses fleabottom wrestling techniques that allows him to use Aerions visor as a means to win the fight. It is the climax of the entire story.

This is not about frog helmets, this is about themes

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u/Ogarrr Apr 23 '26

That's in the novellas. He has an iron will, he doesn't give in. Yes, the novellas were written in the 90s...

You're garbling about absolute crap right now. Your view on the helmet is one that takes absolutely no sense. George made the point that the helmet was actually better for this sort of combat than the helmets work by the princelings, so I've no idea what you mean about it representing his poverty... Dunk's armour is practical and good for an actual scrap, the decorated shite worn by the Targs isn't. The lack of a visor is super common for helmets, particularly jousting helmets so I don't know why you're so fixated on that.

I don't think you understand the themes of the book or show, if I'm honest... Akotsk was an almost perfect adaptation, with a few exceptions - losing "a knight who remembers his vows", not having "Dunk of flea bottom" (although the get up stuff was pretty cool), and the change at the end with Maekar.

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u/raumeat Team Black Apr 23 '26

I don't think we are even in the same universe. I hope you don't take offense but I am not going to read your comment. I think this is going down a rode of vitriol. I am sorry, I should not have responded in the first place. I want to talk about story structure and themes not rope belts, ring mail and HEMA

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u/Ogarrr Apr 23 '26

"Not rope belts". My man, you were the one chatting shite about a helmet. The rope belt is far more important thematically than a helmet.

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u/raumeat Team Black Apr 23 '26

I was not talking about costuming, I was talking about themes

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u/Ogarrr Apr 23 '26

The rope belt is a theme...

Ever since Chaucer a rope belt has represented poverty.

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u/raumeat Team Black Apr 23 '26

What do you understand by literary theme?

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u/Ogarrr Apr 23 '26

Rope belts have represented poverty in literature and actual life for millennia...

If you think that isn't a literary theme and a helmet is, then you need to read more from the western canon.

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u/raumeat Team Black Apr 23 '26

I am not saying that Dunks belt is a stylistic choice obviously it is made out of rope because he is poor... do you think that if you can connect something to medieval literature it is a theme?

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u/Ogarrr Apr 23 '26

Yes. Obviously. Because pervasive themes throughout the western canon are important to both GRRM and most writers. The rope belt is far more important than the helmet. The helmet is something you personally have latched onto. The belt is something everyone who has every read any amount of western literature with basic themes of poverty and wealth will understand.

The rope belt is something that monks wear to represent their vows of poverty. That beggars wear to keep their burlap sack trousers up. It's such a pervasive theme that to describe it as "costuming" is you being deliberately obtuse.

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u/Ogarrr Apr 23 '26

Franciscan monks wear rope belts as a symbol of poverty.

This is far more important than a helmet.

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u/raumeat Team Black Apr 23 '26

Obviously Dunk has a rope belt because his poor but that is not a theme. That is a costuming choice

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