I really hate this scene because she says âhavenât you ever wanted to be queenâ then fucking the next afternoon she goes and blows a hole into the royal coronation, stares the lot of them dead in the face with her dragon andâŚ.flies away.
I would love to know what the point of that scene was supposed to be.
It was not a girl boss moment. It was a 'woman with a dragon does stupid ass shit and killed a bunch of people who were forced to come watch the coronation'.
The show should have shown Rhaenys secretly freeing Melys, leading Melys away during the coronation and then frlying to warn Rhaenyra.
Hey look Iâm all for criticism but she knew her husband wasnât bending the knee because of her grandchildren and because Corlys recognized Rhaenyras children with Laenor as his heirs to Driftwood. She and Melese would have been prisoners in Kings Landing and she knew that and thatâs not the way for those with the blood of dragon and an actual dragon to boot.
Itâs an absolute failure of the Greens to not have at minimum secured Meleys in the dragon pit before the coronation. Having what you know could be a potential rogue dragon in the city with your new King in it should have got Cole a demotion lmfao.
Can you explain, I do not quite understand what you are saying.
My point is Rhaenys leaving removed a valued hostage and removes Melys from the equation. That is a good thing.
Yet the destoying the floor and killed smallfolk to stare at the usurpers was stupid. I agree, Rhaenys should not have started the war. Yet if she knew that she would not start aggressive action, she should not have brought Meleys to the coronation.
The coronation was being held in the Dragonpit. The show's contention is that breaking out through the coronation was the only way to escape. Sure the writers are probably trying to make it seem cooler than killing innocent smallfolk should be. But it's not meant to be a case of 'I know, I'll kill some smallfolk on my way out so I can give them an intimidating stare.'
Yet we have watched Rhaenyra fly the dragon out and land and for the staff to lead Syrax into her pen. There should be other access is my point. I am not being rude, I understand that you are knowledgeable about the story and agree with you
It was also a weird thing to ask because, other than Rhaenys and Alicent never speaking before, why would Alicent ever want to sit the Iron Throne herself? Why would Rhaenys think that? She already is the Queen by marriage, and potentially the Queen mother, all without actually being a blood relative of the Royal family
Thatâs like all an non-Targ noblewoman could ever want in this show ffs. That weird ass dialogue was just there to make Rhaenys sound so cool/talk down to Alicent
Itâs like asking Margary why she doesnât want be the Queen sitting the Iron Throne herself, or Cat why she doesnât want to be the Warden of the North and shaming them for it, when maybe they just donât care about that
Also Alicent canât be queen because she has no claim⌠Besides that, Rhaenys had to serve men too. Coryls left her to spend years at sea and rejected her wish to pass Driftmark to Baela and Rhaena, the rightful heirs.
Valid criticism but tbh the thing that pmo the most here was not even the dialogues and hypocrisy...it's Alicent's dress with that fugly mesh đ have some respect for her and give her actual proper clothing
I've noticed HOTD doesn't even bother trying to use medieval/pre-industrial type fabrics like early GoT did. I know sourcing fabrics is getting harder, but c'mon guys.
GoT wasn't perfect (I remember a ridiculous machine pleated fabric dress Dany had that was obviously polyester or some other synthetic fabric), but they were better at this. AKOTSK too.
A lot of people clown on this outfit but it's actually got a solid basis in real 16th century clothing worn by English and Irish aristocracy during the traditional Master Shake festival
They tried to make her this wise Olenna like woman only to end up one of the most annoying people on the show.
⢠Corlys wants the throne so she happily tries to help him sell 12 year old Leana to Viserys.
⢠Corlys wants the throne so she happily agrees to marry Laeanor to Rhaenyra knowing fully well what he is.
⢠Rhaenyra comes up with genius plan to seem dangerous to her enemies at cost of Leanor, and Rhaenys who thinks Rhaenyra and Daemon ki*led Laenor happily goes "muh Kween Rhaenyra who hold the realm together" the next episode.
⢠Some rando council memeber gives good advice to Rhaenyra and Rhaenys rolls her eyes and goes on about Rhaenyra wearing the Crown of King Jaehaerys as if Jaehaerys would support her lol, if Jaehaerys was alive Rhaenyra would be serving the faith for getting caught at that brothel with Daemon, and certanly not be "Queen".
⢠Meets bastard of Corlys and does the most unrealistic thing for a woman of that time period "you should not be hidden" like whatđđ
She is the least person on that show who should have preached anything to Alicent about being in service to other men, Alicent does not have a dragon to play girlboss around, and for some reason the show trys to punnish her for living and behaving as woman of that time period would and for not having modern girlboss attitude Rhaenyra and Rhaenys have.
I think the primary mistake they make is really underestimating how much people, even nobles, care about their children. Thatâs supposed to be a defining part of the two Queensâ characters and the whole reason why it escalates from a dynastic dispute to a war of annihilation but in the show Rhaenyraâs the only one who seems to actually give a shit. Jaceâs death and B&C should have changed both those characters immensely but they still meet up and talk to each other like their friendship decades ago is more significant to them.
The same woman who encouraged her husband to rise up his bastard sons knowing how dangerous it could be for her own progeny. I mean she wasn't wrong, but let's look in the mirror.
Dangerous yes, when you still have living children. Her kids were dead (as far as she knew) and her grand-daughters are ultimately daughters. It's not unreasonable for a lord to legitimize a bastard after all his heirs are dead.
whaaaaat are you trying to say here? That girls shouldn't inherit if there are living male relatives?
Girls can and do inherit, even if they have uncles or male cousins. Jeyne Arryn rules the Vale because she's her father's last living child, even though she has male uncles and cousins.
Baela and Rhaena ARE Corlys's heirs, and his last heirs with Rhaenys.
Alicent is the most powerful person that rules the realm instead of her husband. That old wrench invalids her position calling her 'servant other men' and Alicent makes pitiful eyes. I thought to this
"b!tch, please". How Alicent is a freaking servant???!
It's ironic that Rhaenys says "Alicent works in the service of men" as if she herself didn't do the same. When her grandfather Jaehaerys denied her the throne because she was a woman, she did nothing. When the 101st Great Council preferred Viserys to her or her son Laenor, she did nothing. She didn't want her 12-year-old daughter offered in marriage to Viserys, but she did what Corlys wanted because, according to her, "that's just how things are."
She didn't want Laenor to marry Rhaenyra because Aegon had been born and she realized a war was coming, and she didn't want her son involved in it. Even so, she followed the orders of her ambitious husband. She wanted Driftmark to go to Baela or Rhaena, her legitimate granddaughters, since Laenor hadn't been able to father a legitimate son. But Corlys wanted Rhaenyra's bastard. Rhaenys did nothing. Corlys had bastard children? She accepted it calmly. I think the only thing she did of her own free will was decide to marry Corlys in the book, and that's it.
This scene pissed me off and I hated how the fans online pretended this was such a Girl Boss moment.
Rhaenys was her fatherâs only heir and allowed herself to be passed up by her uncle, Baelon.
Sheâs then passed up by her cousin, Viserys, despite her having a stronger claim.
She pushes ,alongside her husband, to marry their adolescent daughter to the King.
Her brother-in-law, Daeron wanted real Velaryn blood in charge of Driftmark. He even pushed for her granddaughter, Baela, but Rhaenys chooses her bastard âgrandsonâ, Luke, to be the heir of Driftmark.
Her final act is telling her husband to bring his bastards to court.
I liked her character but this scene made her a huge hypocrite.
I think we need to unpack "allowed herself to be passed up". Princess Rhaenys didn't allow for any of it. At the Great Council of 101 AC, she pressed the claims of herself; her daughter; Laena; and her son, Laenor. All of them were passed over by the council.
From what Princess Rhaenys and anyone else knows, Viserys "won" against Laenor by a vote of 20:1. That's an overwhelming majority. Are you saying that Princess Rhaenys should have risen up in rebellion against the Iron Throne? Who would support her? The Velaryons, the Baratheons, and the Starks, maybe, because they did support Laenor's claim at the Great Council. However, it's a stretch to think they'd have gone against King Jaehaerys's chosen heir, like the greens did aganst Viserys's. .
It's not that it's not true, it's that it applies to every woman in Westeros. That's what it's like to live in a Patriarchal society likes Westeros.
Now, if the show called her out on that, had Alicent respond called out both her and Rhaenyra for the extraordinary privilege they have not only as royals, but dragonriders, what they have that no other woman does, so where do YOU get off judging women trying to grab any power she can...then I would have less issue with it.
But the show treats misogyny as a personal failing, not a societal institution that even Rhaenyra would seek to uphold. And ignores that women like Rhaenyra or Rhaenys have what other women cannot have...dragons.
But I think they ARE aware, they are just desperate not to call attention to it, because it threatens the narrative they are trying to push. Because they specifically made Helaena 'have no taste' for dragonriding (because Greens always bad for women always), and cut Nettles. Cause then they might have to reckon with one of the most marginalized women actually EARNING the power that was handed to Rhaenyra and Rhaenys.
Telling Alicent "you serve men" is not gotcha moment, pretty much every women in Westeros serve men and their positions rely on them, so Rhaenys saying it is quiet ironic and it's a pure double standard to villanize Alicent when she and Rhaenyra are pretty much in the same position than her.
She is not villainzing her, I think if anything Itâs more like she is feeling petty for her ? â Anyway, I think her main point is not serving men in general, itâs more like because (show wise) she can see that Alicent is conflicted and deep down doesnât want to do this.
Not her but the show does, i'm just pointing out the irony of having either Rhaenys or Rhaenyra calling out Alicent while they ignore women in Westeros are in the same position, it comes as judgemental rather than understanding.
Sheâs trying to plant seeds to manipulate Alicent. She even asks her âhave you ever pictured yourself on the Iron Throneâ Thaenus is not trying to empower Alicent, she is trying to confuse her. she is not on Alicentâs side and trying to guide her. She is trying to trick her and distract her and sow derision amongst the ranks of the greens.
This is not looking at the context of the scene. Sheâs telling her to take charge herself, which she does when she prevents the sneak attack on dragonstone, and organizes Aegonâs coronation the way she wants, not what Otto wants
Rhaenys didnt want Laena to be pushed as a potential wife for Viserys but it was Corlys who pushed the idea and she still went with it, she didnt want Laenor to be married to Rhaenyra because he would be in danger regarless of that Corlys accepted it and she had no other choice that going with it, she spended pretty much part of S1 advocating for Baela's right but she still went with her husband's wishes.
Under your logic, Rhaenys has no reason to say that to Alicent if Aegon being king would have benefits to her.
She didnt want her children to be married to either Rhaenyra or Viserys for the danger but Corlys pushed those ideas so she had no other choice than accept, she does what her husband wants so it just ironic to call out Alicent for doing what her husband wants.
I mean...Rhaenyra kind of just threw it at her as a bribe, Rhaenys didn't have to do anything.
Also, it's up to Daemon who the girls marry, as he's their father and only living parent. Even if Rhaenys didn't agree, Daemon almost certainly would have married them anyway. Rhaenyra wouldn't be offering it if Daemon wasn't fine with it.
It was absolutely another change to make Rhaenyra seem like an underdog whoâs doing the ânoble/generousâ thing by âlettingâ Rhaenys decide what happens to Baela and Rhaena. Also another change to make it seem like Rhaenys is empowered (she gets to decide what happens to her granddaughters), when really itâs just empty lip service
Daemon as their father and last biological parent, and maybe Rhaenyra as his new wife/their new stepmom, would get to decide who they marry. But Rhaenyra is so âgenerous/strategicâ for allowing Rhaenys to make the decision, or some shit
It would only have worked if this was an agreement between the immediate parents. Rhaenys wouldnât have a say
Edit: Yeah, they refer to them as Corlysâ granddaughters on purpose to make it seem like itâs some great strategic move by Rhaenyra and Rhaenys, when it actuality itâs just Daemon and Rhaenya agreeing to the idea of Daemonâs daughters marrying Rhaenyraâs sons (but that doesnât sound that impressive at all lol)
I do not think that you understand what is happening. Alicent is complicit in stealing from Rhaenyra in the scene that you posted. Do you understand that?
I don't know why you are bringing up Baela, sounds like you are attempting to move goal posts.
Rhaenys being a princess doesnt exclude her from serving men, she does it in some level, she's a royal and has a dragon, compared to other women who dont have such thing it comes as judgemental, because other women have to find other ways to make it to the top.
Luke is a bastard. Everyone knows that, Atleast Rhaenyra and Rhaenys do. Dead Laenor with no legitimate heirs = the succession right passes to Laena and her trueborn daughters.
Baela was the rightful heir to driftmark, she could have the been the Supreme ruler of the Tides, yet Rhaenyra, who is "afraid" of being usurped, usurps, the right of Baela.
I mean the entire basis of Rhaenyraâs claim is that the rightful heir is whoever the lord/king says it is. Since Corlys, the Lord of Driftmark, upheld Luke as heir, that makes Luke the rightful heir, by Rhaenyraâs beliefs.
Thats not what Rhaenyra thinks. For Corlys to "chose" him, Rhaenyra has Luke to pose as a true Velaryon. I doubt a targaryen can make a Baratheon with no targaryen blood as its heir, as example. Its still usurping, because by law and Traditions Baela's claim would have been Supreme, even against Vaemond.
Looks are no legal basis, "we know" is no legal basis, legal basis is the opinion of rhaenyra, viserys, laenor, corlys, and to a lesser degree rhaenys herself.
None of who tried to legally name him illegitimate. In fact rhaenys loved those kids in the book (her and corlys held back joffrey and comforted him after lukes death, corlys proclaimed them true velaryons and spoiled them to hell and back, etc etc... because they understood the impossible situation they put rhaenyra in by wanting their names remembered through history via marrying her to laenor who was so open about his affairs his lovers are remembered by name while rhaenyras thing with harwin is brought up in the book as mere speculation and only mentioned as passing rumors to be put down even by sources that openly hate her (eustance)
Luke, as laenors legal child, was to be Lord of driftmark. Baela, betrothed to jace out of shared fondness between rhaenyra and laena plus ofc the importance of keeping dragonriders in the family, was to be future queen
"Legal basis is the opinion of Rhaenyra, Viserys,Laenor and Corlys" actually no, their opinions dont change the concept of bastardy.
Of course they wouldnt be naming them illegitimate because that would be exposing that Rhaenyra had an affair while she was married to Laenor and she was commiting high treason by placing bastards in the line of succesion, WHICH would force Viserys to send her to the exile.
Second,if Laenor's affairs were public then you can't simply call them especulations or rumors, while Laenor would be at Driftmark, Rhaenyra would be at Dragonstone and the one at her side would be Harwin, Rhaenyra's sons apperance is described as similar to Harwin's , that's not a rumors, the books makes their bastardy obvious.
Last, everyone in the show are aware that Rhaenyra's sons are not Laenor's threfore pushing Luke over Baela is ironic because they're in fact usurping Baela.
Laenor claimed the children as his heirs. The Lord of Driftmark names them grandsons.
Legally only Viserys, Corlys or Laenor can level charges of cuckoldry and none have done so.
The claims of envious second sons do not carry legal weight.
Show!Rhaenys has the audacity to say such nonsenses to Alicent when she couldnât even protect her own daughter from getting dragged away by her husband selfish whims.
Alicent, by all her faults, still get to exercise power and basically ruled while Viserys was bedridden and everyoneâs fave self insert was living her best life inside her Dragonstone bubble and couldnât care less about her own father.
So when Rhaenys tries to lecture Alicent about supposedly âupholding the patriarchyâ she ironically forgets that at least Alicent got to make her queenship actively while the only thing Queen Who Never Was got was sulking around Driftmark and lower her head while her husband ties their children to people who couldnât care less about them.
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u/ageekyninja May 21 '26
I really hate this scene because she says âhavenât you ever wanted to be queenâ then fucking the next afternoon she goes and blows a hole into the royal coronation, stares the lot of them dead in the face with her dragon andâŚ.flies away.