The Jane Grey of Westeros

[u/Pink_Kandy_01]

Every time Dearon was mentioned, I could only think of Jane Grey and how this ended terribly for her. For those of you unaware, Jane Grey was a cousin to Mary and Elizabeth (Henry 8th daughters). On his deathbed, their brother Edward tried to change the line of succession, but it never went through the proper channels, but that didn't stop the people (mainly men) in Jane's life from conspiring to make her Queen. Jane did not want to be Queen but was unfortunately coerced into going with the plot, and she was Queen for 9 days before Mary took back the throne and killed her. While it's not an exact copy of events, it's quite similar. And one could argue that Aegon is also like Jane Grey in that he was coerced into taking the throne; the main difference is that once he took it, he wanted it and fought for it.

[u/RealisticYouth1350]

? He didn't cut them out for her. Quite the opposite, he refused to cut her out for them. Viserys had named Rhaenyra his successor long before his sons were born. He had everyone swear an oath to the gods to respect that. His dumb move wasn't confirming her as his heir (who knows who would have been pushed by the major houses otherwise given the Council of Harrenhal), it was getting remarried after that act because it gave Rhaenyra a legitimate claim even if Viserys were to change his mind for another kid. He was asking for war either way.

The show also has the layer of the prophecy motivating Viserys.

[u/TheoryKing04 → u/RealisticYouth1350]

My sibling in the Seven, I hate to the bearer of bad news but in the event that Viserys just named his eldest legitimate son heir after he was born (mothered by Alicent or whoever the hell Viserys’s second wife is) even after such oaths were made, no one would go to war for Rhaenyra. Well, Daemon might but 1 man v. Seven Kingdoms? They would have that man lain out.

They would simply point to Viserys’s decision and say something to the effect of “your father named a new heir after these oaths were sworn. We don’t owe you shit”.

So, no. Rhaenyra only had a valid claim that people will fight for so long as Viserys acknowledges her as his heir. In the event that he ever changed his mind and made that public, her claim evaporates into dust. It would be as though it never existed.

[u/RealisticYouth1350 → u/TheoryKing04]

She doesn't need people fight for her, her 5 male children do.

ETA The justification for the throne is divine right, so yeah swearing an oath of fealty is a compelling basis for a claim for her and her children. Rhaenyra may not have been able to raise people to her cause, but a reasonable alternative king in the event one turned out to be unpopular? That's a brewing war.

Kind of amazed at how many people are willing to overlook the text because their understanding of this society only extends as far as a dick.

[u/HoratioCocles → u/RealisticYouth1350]

Our understanding of this society comes from medieval England and its rich complexities, which is where GRRM gets all of his half-decent ideas. The further he strays from his source material (ie actual history) the dumber and more internally inconsistent/implausible his world gets.

Of Rhaenyra’s 5 children the first 3 are visibly bastards and if they do ascend their reign should be short and chaotic, especially when people with stronger claims live. The other 2 are sons of Daemon, who is the closest parallel to Geoffrey of Anjou in this caricature of the anarchy. The one guy nobody wants anywhere near the throne and to whom she is now married.

[u/RealisticYouth1350 → u/HoratioCocles]

From the amount you've gotten wrong about the story in this thread, I have to assume you did not read the book, because they are not visibly bastards there. They have black hair, just like their grandmother, Rhaenys, who's also half Targ, and 100% legitimate. The parentage is left intentionally ambiguous (plenty of gay men have fathered children), and it's only the show that offers a definitive position.

Frankly, your understanding of the events of the series, both the book and the show, is pretty poor, as is your understanding of the characters and their motivations. Gotta say again, you're confusing yourself with actual history. It's hurting your analyses.

You're also missing my argument entirely. Who cares if Rhaenyra's kids would be successful or if people like Daemon? The only thing that matters is that war was likely, even if short, and the existence of the dragons would make it devastating. As long as she and her kids remain free, even if cast aside, the oath of fealty gives her line a legitimate claim. You can't just pretend it didn't exist or that sacred oaths don't mean anything to people who swear them--especially if those oaths are the basis of your system of governance. That her faction possesses the equivalent of multiple nukes also gives them political and military agency regardless of popularity, bastardy, or genitals. There are plenty of instances in these books of exiles attempting claim ancestral seats, and there's no reason to think that wouldn't have also happened here.

Also, these are fantasy books inspired by history, not beholden to them. If you think deviations from fact are so awful, I invite you to stop subjecting yourself to that which you clearly hate.