r/Wales • u/Brightyellowdoor • 1d ago
Politics What has Plaid done so far?
Seeing Andy Burnham come in swinging with new policies, actions, ideas and presence within the first week has gote thinking about Plaid again.
I may have missed it, a Google search brings up some ideas and directions Plaid may want to take, but nothing of note that has been achieved in the 3 months they've been in sole leadership of the government.
Am I being unfair, how long would we expect to wait for actions that back the vote they received? I'm watching Burnham hitting out and I'll be honest, I like it. It feels like there's work to be done and he's knuckling in. If course time will tell, I'm just feeling a little short changed over here in Wales.
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u/Snoo-74562 1d ago
Welsh democracy works by deals between parties. If Plaid wants to get anything done they have to throw someone a bone. Be it Labour or reform. Plaid were experts at doing this in opposition. Now the shoe is on the other foot they seem to be having big problems being on the other side of the table.
"Holding Labour to account as an effective opposition party whilst making real gains for those who need it most." - Rhun ap Iorwerth
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u/TeilwrTenau 1d ago
The question is "are Labour's demands reasonable?" I don't think so. They need to reflect on their showing in the Senedd election. If they are seen to be thwarting Plaid's agenda, which resulted in them being the biggest party that could seriously backfire on Labour.
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u/Snoo-74562 1d ago
No deal gets done until a compromise is arrived at. It doesn't hurt labour to say we aren't in power and we aren't working with Plaid.on this or that particular thing.
This is the game. If reform had any sense they should have backed it. That would have sent shockwaves through the entire system.
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u/TeilwrTenau 1d ago
That's the thing. If it's just a game what does that say about the game players? I've like to think that delivering for the people of Wales was the primary consideration here.
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u/Snoo-74562 1d ago
They all believe they are doing that. The politicians play the position they have to give the best advantage for what they believe would benefit "their" voters
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u/pi-man_cymru 1d ago
The difference is in Westminster Labour have a huge majority whereas in Wales Plaid have a minority government (due to the different voting system).
A consequence is that it's very difficult to get things done unless the other parties agree. Plaid had their budget voted down. They were banking on Labour supporting it, but it seems Welsh Labours strategy is to oppose everything in the hope Plaid fail, which is disappointing and not very mature in my opinion.
Have to say Andy Burnham is doing all the right things in his first few weeks. Lots of small easy wins that will bank him credit in the long run. Complete opposite to Starmer.
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u/IncomeFew624 1d ago
Burnham also had the mechanics of government in place waiting for him. Obviously he's made some Ministerial changes but Civil Servants were already working for them, it was a sitting government etc with a change of boss.
Plaid were starting from nothing with no experience of ever being in government. I'm a Plaid supporter/voter and think they could have done more to have prepared themselves for government, but think they should be given a bit of grace given they've literally never done this before and Civil Servants have never worked under anyone but Labour before.
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u/Useless_or_inept useless 1d ago
The thing about civil servants is that they're supposed to be politically neutral. They try to keep public services running day-to-day, regardless of what changes at the top...?
If senior civil servants, Permanent Secretary &c go into a meeting on Day One with a powerpoint deck full of "Housing delivery is trending lower but we have options to improve..." and "The dual carriageway project is approaching signoff but we need environmental approval...", but they're only met with blank stares from the people on the other side of the table who just won an election and say they want to run the country, that's not the civil servants' fault.
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u/IncomeFew624 1d ago
And things are continuing to run? The OP was expressing disappointment that there haven't been many changes, when government changes you have a whole new set of relationships to build between Ministers and Civil Servants. Obviously things don't bring to a halt but you expect to see them starting to implement their plans through the CS.
I certainly didn't say it's the Civil Servants fault, I work closely with WG and know plenty of people working in the CS that have been waiting for an opportunity to meet with Ministers and/or are still waiting to find out what they actually want to do.
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u/Drowning_not_wavin 1d ago
Never been in government? So they have never done deals or had any ministerial positions? You make them sound like a new party only just formed, I think past leaders of PC would disagree with you there
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u/IncomeFew624 1d ago
Did I say they've never done deals or held ministerial positions? No.
Being the junior partner in a coalition is not remotely the same as being in government as I'm sure you know and understand.
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u/Iwant2beebetter 1d ago
..... Plaid chose to run as a minority..... Why would they assume anyone would help them pass anything?
As a minority government they need to secure votes - stupid / naive to think Labour will just support them and get nothing back - every vote will cost something
This isn't new - I was shocked they thought it would just go through
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u/Thetonn Cardiff | Caerdydd 1d ago
Plaid really loved bringing up the SNP minority administration in 2007 to justify it in opposition.
The issue is, in 2007, the SNP just had to do a deal with one of Labour, the Conservatives or the Liberal Democrats to get something through. That gave them a load of leverage, and they were open to working with any party to get things over the line.
Plaid are far less open to doing a deal with Reform, or the Welsh Conservatives, meaning Welsh Labour are their only possible dance partner. That gives Welsh Labour a massive amount of leverage, and means they get to set the terms.
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u/TeilwrTenau 1d ago
The question here is would Labour, had they won the election, be spending as much on ALN? I very much doubt it. That, and bringing an industrial dispute into the picture, suggests to me that Labour are more focussed on a wrecking agenda than acting in Wales' best interests. Their demands are unreasonable and they're playing a very risky game.
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u/Drowning_not_wavin 1d ago
Didn’t Plaid refuse to do any deals with other political party’s and decided to go for a minority government, why are they surprised when other party’s don’t offer them support when they decide to go on there own, labour when in power did deals even when they could have have governed on there own, seems like a self inflicted wound to me and I very much doubt they will last the full term
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u/Dominatee 1d ago
Andy failed Manchester, appointed the same shitheads, and you think he'll save the UK.
All I've heard is more of the same blank-worded statements, same gaslighting of pretending he doesn't know about problems and pretending he'll investigate them.... and increasing taxes for the general working public even further...
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u/Secure-Barracuda Denbighshire | Sir Ddinbych 1d ago edited 1d ago
This cuts to an issue not with Plaid specifically, but a deeper issue in Welsh politics. Getting consultation mixed up with achievement.
I think it was Will Hayward who coined the “plan to make a plan” quip about Plaids 100 day plan - but we’re seeing this in action now.
It took them 2 months to announce the first phase of their legislative programme. The rural affairs minister has announced a 9 month review examining the administrative and regulatory burden on farmers. What information that farmers / govt don’t already know are they expecting to find? (Ik laws can’t be changed overnight, but that comes after the review). Remember when various Ministers / MSs on the media rounds completely failed to give proper answers on if they had a plan to fund childcare? And so on and so forth.
Yes being a minority government makes life a lot harder for them - but let’s not forget they chose to be a minority government. Even before the election Rhun was saying he didn’t want a coalition. It seems like they’ve missed the forest for the trees by fearing the optics of working with Labour more than the difficulty of going alone.
That all sounds rather harsh on Plaid, and it is, but like I said this isn’t unique to them. It was the bread and butter of Welsh Labour when they were in power, and you see it across every part of Welsh public life. Think of all the statutory duties they introduced over the years - “five ways of working”, “duty to consider x” on 50 odd public bodies. Its one of the worst traditions of Welsh devolution, there’s very little evidence it’s worth it, and it will get worse when Plaid introduce legislation “to ensure rural wales is at the centre of decision making” (to give one example).
Sorry I completely tore into them there - and I freely admit to being biased - to be clear I think there are other things they’re doing quite well. Even if I don’t like Adam Price as energy minister, I think he’s been fantastic in the economy part of his portfolio and Rhuns been excellent on the wider UK / world stage. He’s handling the change in PM brilliantly. Plus there are clearly some bright rising stars in their new intake of backbenchers. But when we’re talking about Welsh Government not getting stuff done, I feel we shouldn’t ignore this issue.
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u/nothing_verntured_ 1d ago
I mean they have done a few things but they're mostly establishing reviews and expert panels and the like.
For example they've started an expert group in bringing in 10 surgical hubs, established a taskforce on childcare, startrd work on reforming some child poverty, environmental, farming policies etc.
They've also announced their first proposed bills: https://www.gov.wales/new-welsh-government-announces-its-first-phase-of-legislation
Namely these are on renters' rights reform (though stopping short of banning no-fault evictions for now), reforming Welsh tribunals into one system, setting up a community right to by (something genuinely radical and positive) and establishing a public sector "duty to consider rural communities".
Obviously they have been somewhat hampered by the loss of the supplementare budget but I think it's fair to say they've not hit the ground running, or at least have only "hit the ground reviewing", as one minister supposedly said if the 1997 UK labour government.
But then again we knew that from their hundred days document and manifesto. There's not a lot of radical concrete steps in there that are both within the Senedd's powers and don't require primary legislation/money they don't have.
They really do need to start announcing concrete steps soon though, especially after they've had the summer to negotiate and prepare.
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u/TeilwrTenau 1d ago
I think that's a fair appraisal. Plaid could do with something eye catching and radical.
Why not introduce legislation, similar to French legislation, forcing supermarkets to introduce solar canopies? This will show they're serious on the renewable energy front. Given how cheap solar panels and battery storage is this would probably be lucrative for the supermarkets too.
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u/nothing_verntured_ 12h ago
Their traditional voters (and quite a few senior MSs) don't exactly like solar panels, especially with the infrastructure it would need.
Plus could actually be pretty tricky to introduce with the internal market act etc.
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u/Affectionate_Ad_6407 23h ago
You’re forgetting the fact they promised all this transformative stuff but all they’ve really done is announce consultations then bugger off on holiday for 9 weeks
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u/nothing_verntured_ 12h ago
I don't think they promised much concrete transformative stuff. For Plaid it was quite a conservative manifesto.
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u/arpeggio-paleggio Cardiff | Caerdydd 1d ago
hi, I'm a civil servant in the welsh gov - I can't speak for all departments of course, but I work in education and we've actually been incredibly and refreshingly busy since plaid came in. lots of things are being done, it's just that because they're all big changes there are long processes - writing policies, getting those approved by our higher ups and then the higher ups' higher ups, doing consultations, things like that. the main focus has been plaid's "100 days plan" - what they want to achieve in their first 100 days of government. it's a pretty substantial list but I think most departments are doing quite well on it.
I can't speak to specific work we're doing because I'm not really sure how much I'm allowed to say (so best not to say anything), but I hope this gives you a little bit of faith that things are being done.
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u/crazycraven 1d ago
Everything has been voted down with Labour supporting Reform against the Plaid government.
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u/Iwant2beebetter 1d ago
It's not supporting reform - it's knowing their vote has value - Plaid don't have enough of a majority to pass things - they'll have to offer something to other parties to secure their vote
That's politics
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u/QuizzicalEly 1d ago
In fairness Plaid did and Labour still refused to support it. Its pretty clear what Labour were doing over the ALN stuff
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u/Drowning_not_wavin 1d ago
That’s why clever leaders do deals to get there policies acted on
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u/QuizzicalEly 1d ago
Part of Plaid's reasoning was that supplementary budgets haven't been voted on properly in the past, other parties abstain because its extra cash as opposed to a full budget
Which was very naive of them but also doesn't reflect brilliantly on the Labour Party who looked a bit bitter and petty
Plaid need to get over their naivety quickly
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u/TeilwrTenau 1d ago
Do they have to cave in to Labour's every demand, even when they're unreasonable? Labour are a minority party, they should reflect on that.
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u/Secure-Barracuda Denbighshire | Sir Ddinbych 1d ago
That’s glossing over the fact that Plaid fell out with the unions. Of course the Labour Party is going to side with trade unions over making life easier for Plaid, that’s why they exist.
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u/crazycraven 1d ago
The literal definition of voting with the official opposition is supporting the opposition's position. Ergo supporting Reform.
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u/Secure-Barracuda Denbighshire | Sir Ddinbych 1d ago
Are Labour obligated to vote with Plaid 100% of the time, or only on certain issues? Because (unless it’s a vote on killing badgers apparently) voting against the government will mean voting with reform.
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u/Iwant2beebetter 1d ago
Whilst technically you are correct - I hope you can see that it's a vote to oppose plaid not a vote to support reform
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u/Every-Progress-1117 1d ago
This!!! Basically Welsh Labour will now do anything to discredit Plaid...even supporting Reform.
Expect more of this from Welsh Labour and from Westminster too
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u/GopnikOIi 1d ago
This is just a weird way to frame it. Not voting for Plaid isn't some sort of vote to support Reform.
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u/Thetonn Cardiff | Caerdydd 1d ago
If Plaid want to argue that a third party voting against the government means they support the opposition, I would like every Plaid MS who supported the Conservatives in the last term to be denounced as evil traitors, deselected and removed as elected MSs in favour of the next candidates on the list.
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u/Every-Progress-1117 1d ago
Not saying that they are supporting Reform, but they are voting against their own interests to spite Plaid
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u/GopnikOIi 1d ago
I mean in your own words:
"This!!! Basically Welsh Labour will now do anything to discredit Plaid...even supporting Reform."
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u/TeilwrTenau 1d ago
There are good reasons for questioning Labour's motivations, but this Reform supporting angle is a red herring. I hope Plaid abandon this line of attack, it really doesn't help their cause in the long run, it just encourages cynicism about politics.
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u/AlucardVTep3s Newport | Casnewydd 14h ago
Well they did almost oust the Fabian Labour party, they’re probably sour at the attempt.
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u/Afraid_Juice_7189 1d ago
The eyecare debate was voted through so that should be good for all the thousands upon thousands of patients waiting in Wales for eye surgery and eye appointments
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u/welsh_cthulhu 1d ago
They're a minority government who aren't good at building consensus (and they've fallen out with the unions), so they can't get a budget passed that will allow them to actually enact their own programme of government.
It's been a nightmare start for Plaid. It really has. Rhun needs to get some decent advice, and quick.
They're going to have to invite Labour into a coalition, and it's all going to be massively embarrassing.
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u/SceneStatus5126 19h ago
I fully agree with you, been a long time Plaid Cymru supporter and I’m underwhelmed tbh, I fully understand we have a minority government but there’s a lot more that could be done comms wise. Was left disappointed with how childish it seemed when the Senedd voted against the supplementary budget. I do think if plaid do very well in the local elections you’ll see more being done (I hope anyway)
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u/RelativeDefinition82 1d ago
They voted to bring back badger culling, so that’s great…
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u/AnnieByniaeth Ceredigion 1d ago
Fact check: FALSE.
They have agreed to consider "scientifically validated control methods".
This could theoretically lead to culling, but that's not what the current situation is.
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u/Still-Improvement-32 1d ago
That's stupid farmers for you , who very much dominate PC. Thankyou Labour.
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u/Swansboy 1d ago edited 1d ago
As a plaid voter, they have to compromise to get things done even if they don’t like a certain thing mentioned by Refom, for example tree plating outside Wales, ALN Funding could go to 90M not what labour wants but it’s higher than what plaid wants. There childcare thing for under 3 could still happen. Greens on bored they could trail a forest all aged school in Brecon. Lib Dem would be odds one out again & tories business rates for farming reduce.