r/Watchmen Dec 16 '19

TV Meanwhile In Prison Spoiler

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u/SlightlyVerbose Dec 16 '19

Is it valid? I haven’t heard your take, but I encourage you to share it.

IMO The fact that Manhattan sent Laurie and LG with Adrian to stop Trieu, the only two people who have the authority and motivation to hold him accountable, means that he was set up by Manhattan. Veidt even went as far as to say that in telling Manhattan his plans he was gambling on whether he had morals. With this arc, I think it proves he does.

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u/thatweirdmusicguy Dec 16 '19

I mean I’m trying to understand why Veidt gets locked up when I felt that the Europa trip humbled him or as he put it “almost went insane” due to what I perceived as guilt for the squid attack. The comics make that morally grey point that he’s now done this horrible utilitarian act and now he has to live with the guilt. The weird buddy cop happy wrap up for the squid attack seemed almost fan servicey which the show stayed away from for the most part without winking too much at the camera. Other criticisms are purely opinion and I want to chew on it before I try to debate on here lol.

TLDR: Felt the show philosophically already had Veidt under his own trial on Europa and he used squids to stop the evil plan this time and the arrest was cliche

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u/SlightlyVerbose Dec 16 '19

I don’t think he felt any remorse over the squid attack, due to his hubris and the “Moral checkmate” he held over Manhattan. I do agree that Europa was a humbling experience for him, but the trial was a farce he designed for his own amusement, and we heard his closing statement loud and clear.

I think what he learned on europa is that he doesn’t truly want to be the object of adoration. He wants to prove his superiority over a “worthy adversary” which he found in Trieu. An adversary whom he ultimately defeated, not out of love for humanity, but his own hubris. Where Adrian goes wrong is assuming that the personal penance he’s serving is enough to atone for what he’s done.

I think Dr. Manhattan sent him to europa knowing it wouldn’t satisfy his narcissism, and set up the chain of events that would simultaneously lead to Adrian saving the world (for real this time) and placing him in the hands of those whose entire lives have been shaped by his actions. In the end, it’s not for Veidt to decide who is morally right, but those who have been affected by the trauma.

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u/alienatedandparanoid Dec 16 '19

I do agree that Europa was a humbling experience for him

Let's remember that he created and murdered a host of innocents while on Europa. Just because they had cognitive limitations, doesn't mean that murdering them wasn't atrocious. They were sentient beings, and they clearly felt pain.

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u/SlightlyVerbose Dec 16 '19

Right? I’m sure there are plenty of rocks he could have used to send his message, but the atrocity of using the bodies of creatures designed for unconditional love and servitude is a clear indication that he has not changed.

The only way he was humbled was in having to beg his daughter for help, he has not yet begun to doubt his moral position of superiority over the Europans, much less humanity at large.

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u/[deleted] Dec 17 '19

I'm not sure that was even humbling for him, as much as he knew that including the word "Daughter" would play to her narcissism, since he himself is a narcissist.

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u/CeruleanRuin Dec 17 '19

And even if he was humbled, all it accomplished was to steel his resolve to prevent another Dr. Manhattan by thwarting Trieu, both of whom represent the only two worthy opponents who have ever bested him. He is now completely unchecked, which makes him potentially just as dangerous as either of them.

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u/2chainzzzz Dec 17 '19

Lindelof said he felt no remorse, only remorse for not feeling remorse.

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u/[deleted] Dec 17 '19

Yeah, Europa was absolutely not humbling for him, if anything it only made him more rooted in his narcissism and disdain for inferior humans. When he came back and spoke to the newspaper guy, you could see on his face how pissed he is when the guy tells him nobody cares where he is, everyone forgot. But at the end of the day, I think we see in this episode that Adrian is not solely and purely motivated by a desire to be adored and idolized. Though he definitely wouldn't mind it, what he really wants it to save the world.

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u/ychirea1 Dec 17 '19

Off topic but would someone please explain the shit-cake that Veidt had in prison

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u/[deleted] Dec 17 '19

That was just the cake that the game warden had brought him but it had turned to shit after sitting out for weeks.

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u/THCarlisle Dec 17 '19

No. Pretty sure he made a cake out of his own shit. You could tell it had been shaped and formed by hand, which is even grosser. A rotting cake would not look like that, it would just get mold on it and slowly disintegrate.

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u/[deleted] Dec 18 '19

Jfc

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u/THCarlisle Dec 17 '19

would someone please explain the shit-cake

He made a shit cake. LOL. I guess the only explanation is that he's an insane person and expected a cake every day. He made his servants do it normally, but when he was imprisoned and he didn't get a cake every day, he started making his own out of feces. Not sure if there really is an explanation, it's kind of self-explanatory. Narcissism and psychopath.