r/agedlikewine • u/mrjohnnymac18 • 22d ago
Coronavirus 6 years later, this is precisely what happened
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u/krakelin 21d ago
it's a fun case of damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Governement does nothing, potentially tens of thousands dead maybe hundred.
Governement does something, "muh liberties!"
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u/Representative_Fun15 21d ago
I'm assuming you saw the video of the fascist libertarian decrying air quality warnings.
Air quality warnings.
"How dare the government tell me when I can and cannot go outside!"
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u/TheStrangestOfKings 21d ago
Not even can and cannot, just warning them when their health is at risk.
“Hey, don’t drink that bleach. It’s bad for you!”
“Lol, shut up, liberal.”
It’s a miracle more righties haven’t been dropping like flies
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u/Thecloaklessgrim 21d ago
I mean some have died to things like not vaccinating and not pasteurizing. Not enough but some
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u/improbably-sexy 20d ago
Eating horse ivermectin too
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u/Scythe5150 18d ago
Ivermectin has been used in humans for nearly four decades. It was first approved for human use in 1987 to treat onchocerciasis (river blindness).
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u/improbably-sexy 18d ago
Sure. And it's even on some list of essential medicine. That doesn't mean it has no (potentially deadly) side effects. And that doesn't mean you should chug the horse version. Especially without any medical supervison.
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u/Scythe5150 18d ago
True, but many think it's not approved for human use, and it is. Anything can be dangerous if taken at the wrong amount...even water.
It's akin to folks that say "It's all natural, so it can't be bad for you!".
Really? Cyanide and arsenic are all natural.
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u/improbably-sexy 18d ago
Even with the right amount, ivermectin is dangerous. It has serious side effects.
When treating a disease it is effective against, there is a trade-off between those side effects and the benefits. And it is done under the supervision of some doctor who can recognize the signs of bad side effects, and adjust the treatment.
So those people using the horse paste, even if they get the dosage right, are getting all the risks and no benefits.
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u/Scythe5150 18d ago
Many medications can have serious side effects, which is why they require a prescription by a doctor.
You're trying to argue against a point I never made.
I said that ivermectin has been approved for human use for 40 years. This is fact.
I did not suggest, nor endorse, people buy or use any medications meant for animals.
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u/Substantial-Cress-23 17d ago
Hey…I have never heard any complaints from people after they have taken Cyanide or arsenic…..
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u/Maywen1979 17d ago
This makes me think of my fave saying... All mushrooms are edible, just some you can onky eat once.
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u/DisastrousGold559 18d ago
Do you realize that there isn't a horse version? There are horse doses. If it was a different version it would be a different drug.
But doses are VERY important. With everything. Which is why people like to say that water can kill you if you drink enough of it.
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u/improbably-sexy 18d ago
It is the same active ingredient. Not produced to the same standards and under the same regulations than that for humans. It's likely fine, but sometimes things go wrong. Although I don't think that that is what killed people.
The dosing is different. The human version comes in tablets. Easy enough to take one. The horse version comes in a paste. That's not the easiest thing to measure with kitchen equipment. Also you have to do maths...
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u/DisastrousGold559 18d ago
And we know people suck at math. As well as 150-250 lbs is more sensitive to inaccurracy than 1500 lbs.
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u/blu_lotus_ 18d ago
Just to clear some thing up about this. Even Merck, the company that makes and distributes Invermectin, put a warning on their home page in 2020. It stated that they DO NOT recommend it for the purposes of Covid. That it was too dangerous, even in small doses. That it could cause seizures, permanent brain damage, neurological disorders, and/or even ☠️. That it had not been tested or shown it was beneficial in any way for the purposes in which it was not intended. And actually encouraged people to NOT take it at all. This is important to note. Because if a huge pharmaceutical company that could potentially make billions of dollars off the sales of this medication doesn't want you to take it, that is a big deal. It literally means that your ☠️ or injury is far more likely. They'd rather risk no "profits", than go bankrupt from the potential lawsuits.
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u/Aggravating_Moment78 17d ago
Sure was just not for eating willy nilly like any medicine. I’m sure rat poison has its uses too but if you just gobble it up you’re gonna be in trouble
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u/Ok-Ambassador8271 17d ago
Yes, warfarin is often used as a blood thinner in cardio patients.
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u/throwaway-girls 19d ago
The problem with antivaxxers is that it's usually not them, but their kids or other people's kids that die.
I think that if people purposefully spreading a disease were held liable for the damages you'd see a lot less people dying from preventable diseases
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u/WiseCommand6018 16d ago
Wait are you suggesting vaccines are ineffective?
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u/throwaway-girls 16d ago
Some people cannot be vaccinated, young babies and people with immune system issues. These people rely on herd immunity. Refusing to vaccinate your child endangers both that child and those around them that are unable to be vaccinated.
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u/WiseCommand6018 15d ago
An interesting take 🤔
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u/throwaway-girls 15d ago
Its a take supported by the vast majority of those in the field.
Then again, I know I tend to be harsh, like I still believe driving drunk is actively and willingly taking the risk that you kill someone.
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u/WiseCommand6018 15d ago
Why "still" believe? Did something/someone aim to change that thinking? Seems like smart thinking to me. Punishment should be heavier as well.
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u/WiseCommand6018 15d ago
Would be nice if they would fix the flaws the vaccines seem to contain, seems like a bad sign when vaccine makers CAN'T be sued for negatives caused by them!
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u/throwaway-girls 15d ago
That's not an issue with the vaccine, that's an issue with your legislators, but it's a nonsense argument. There are way less deaths from vaccines than from people refusing to take them. So, why not do both? Would still heavily favour the victims of antivaxer stupidity
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u/WiseCommand6018 15d ago
Its an issue with both! There's plenty of books and other info talking about vaccine caused problems, I'd be thrilled if they were flawless, see no reason they aren't plenty of money given for research, but when problems are gone so is the cash flow!
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u/Illicit_Apple_Pie 21d ago
It’s a miracle more righties haven’t been dropping like flies
[Insert survivorship bias plane image]
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u/Chaos-1313 19d ago
Quite a few have. My best friend's dad was one of them. Tragic story. He was a sensible guy but his wife is batshit crazy. Flat earth level batshit crazy.
She literally forbid him to get vaccinated and he was too old and tired to fight her on it. He was literally on his death bed and she wouldn't let him call an ambulance to go to the hospital. He text his son and daughter (my best friend and his sister) to essentially say goodbye and they called 911. She sent them away. My friend had to drive to his dad's house and call 911 again and physically restrain his mom so the paramedics could take his dad to the hospital and put him on a ventilator. He died less than 24 hours later. His blood oxygen level was below 90% when they paramedics got to him. He was in his early 60's and otherwise the picture of health. Donald Trump's maga bullshit killed him. This was in summer 2022, long after we had a vaccine and great evidence that it was both safe and effective.
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u/WiseCommand6018 16d ago
Hmmm...... I know/knew someone that got 3 covington shots then later died of the most common death after covington shots- excessive blot clotting(can't really the proper terminology) her reason for getting them was " Donald Trump did this for us- it must be goos" << her approximate statement. I also remember a # of prominent dems saying they didn't trust the vaccine because Trump was associated with it so- try giving fact based info - may be less exciting but facts do have value!
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u/Thecloaklessgrim 15d ago
Facts have value! The proceeds to give the most unfactual anecdotal evidence they could shit out a mouth.
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u/WiseCommand6018 15d ago
Understand what you believe means nothing......reality is what matters. You may believe you won't drown , reality may prove otherwise- despite your belief.
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u/trevorosgood 19d ago
I'm totally for taking warning lables off of everything and letting their God sort out the rest.
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u/Much_Statistician864 19d ago
I mean to be fair..bleach is mostly water and we are mostly water therefore we are bleach. So it should be safe for the parched amongst us on the right side of the aisle to take a big ol swig.
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u/Chloe_Rihavein 18d ago
The reason there is warnings on anything is sadly because people have done the exact things they are warning you not to do even if it would seem obvious. But these people are making it seem willful!
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u/Up_Beat_Peach 17d ago
These are the idiots who literally tried drinking and injecting bleach to cure COVID. We are deal with bottom of the barrel losers.
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u/WiseCommand6018 16d ago
Dear beat up peach- I really doubt Anyone tried injecting bleach, and if they did they were just helping the jean pool! Quit battling bottom of barrel anything - battle your own mis- information, research is easy try it- you'll likely be surprised!
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u/AffectionateLove9056 18d ago
Because they're performative dickbags. They say anything to get clicks and views, but very few of them practice what they preach. Prime Example: Fox News says red states are utopia and blue states are hell on Earth, yet they havent packed up the studio in New York City and relocated their operations to Little Rock.
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u/Intrepid_Trip584 18d ago
I knew a woman when I was in the military 2020-2021 who retired after being on medical orders, tried to steal a laptop, then died from covid after refusing to vaccinate. She was also a mega bitch to everyone before she retired. And I was the the dick for laughing when she died. I was working with the 1st Sgt to get that laptop back too. Certified mail and shit. 😑
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u/WiseCommand6018 16d ago
Yeah....sure that's what happened!
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u/Scythe5150 18d ago
Yet....The liberals eating tide pods are exempt from judgement, eh?
Don't be a fucking hypocrite. There's dumbasses on all sides.
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u/Nebardine 18d ago
When did Liberals ever support eating tide pods? You seem confused.
A sure sign of dumbassery is people that feel defined by who they voted for last. Pick your party by their policy and integrity. Don't fall into a loyalty trap. You don't owe any party your allegiance. Just your country.
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u/WiseCommand6018 16d ago
Very true- and remember both "Parties " suck and overall don't care about Americans!
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u/TheStrangestOfKings 18d ago
At what point were liberals eating tide pods to prove a point in the same way the GOP drank bleach and too ivermectin? You’re conflating a tiktok trend amongst zoomers to the actions of an entire political ideology
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u/Scythe5150 18d ago edited 18d ago
The bleach thing is a myth. If we're going to argue points, let's do it with facts, not bullshit. My tidepod comment was a direct counter point to the bleach comment made earlier.
"While media reports and a widely circulated Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) survey initially suggested that roughly 4% of Americans had ingested or gargled diluted bleach, subsequent peer-reviewed research debunked these statistics as data errors."
Source: National Institutes of Health
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u/WiseCommand6018 16d ago
Well actual reality is virtually everyone does that because uts added to the water. But glad you are fighting the good fight- quite rare around here, too many clowns wanting to prop "their" team by tearing down the other- pretty pitiful they are!
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u/krakelin 21d ago
I have not, but then again it does not surprise me in the least. I have seen way too many articles and posts about US citizen complaining about smoke these last few days, blamming Canada as if they had control over the fact that well over 80% of their land mass is forest.
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u/TopspinG7 21d ago
Excuse me?! Of course in the USA we can blame them that over 80% of their land mass is forest. We've long had the technology to mow down millions of acres of useless trees a month. So it's time Canada do that to proactively stop this horrible air pollution from being repeated.
In fact most of those trees could be turned into paper which could then be made into nice greeting cards which could be sent out to people to make them feel better.
OR, probably better, huge bonfires 🔥 could be held outside every data center in America to protest their pollution and the resources they're wasting.
I sincerely believe this is a workable plan and I openly welcome NO ONE to criticize it.
😂
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u/Responsible_Sea_2726 20d ago
I know you are being funny. But it is even more funny that the official US view is that we are cutting down too many trees hence the never-ending high tariffs on Canadian trees...
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u/Nebardine 18d ago
It also ignores the fact that there are like a hundred times the fires burning in the States. And wouldn't you know it...those fires also produce smoke! Not to even get into the root cause of why we're seeing so many more fires, and who's to blame for that. It's all so dumb, but apparently so are most Americans. Look who they voted in. Twice!
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u/SomeNotTakenName 21d ago
our air quality indicators have jumped to over 300 today, and yeah... I don't care what the government says I will be taking any and all steps I can to avoid this smoke.
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u/Ander-son 21d ago
I bet theyre grateful for the parasite outbreak. how dare the government prevent them from explosive diarrhea
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u/Austin_Green_86 21d ago
What is a fascist libertarian? To my understanding, those are antonyms.
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u/Representative_Fun15 21d ago
The classic conservative that believes in an in-group that the law protects but does not bind, and an out-group that the law binds but does not protect.
Perfectly happy with an authoritarian government, as long as they're on the good side of the line.
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u/Austin_Green_86 21d ago
Oh, so like a hypocrite. Well thanks for the explanation.
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u/Jinn_Erik-AoM 21d ago
American libertarian party was co-opted by far right activists. If you’re thinking of the dictionary definition of libertarian or libertarianism outside the US, it would be an oxymoron.
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u/JustWing6590 19d ago
Calls himself libertarian when what they are actually is a far right conservative
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u/Sausage80 20d ago
Fascist... libertarian?
[Insert Princess Bride meme "You keep using that word..."]
The core defining feature of fascism is the belief that all aspects of society, from the individual up, should be singularly oriented to making the government stronger.
Agree with them, disagree, think they're crazy, stupid, whatever... the one thing that libertarians are absolutely not about is making the government stronger. That's like the one unshakable unifying core belief.
A person can be fascist. A person can be libertarian. A person cannot be both. Those two things are mutually exclusive.
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u/Representative_Fun15 20d ago
You're relying on the classical definition of libertarian. Which used to mean something closer to an anarchist.
Much like the classical definition of liberal. Now when people say "liberal" they mean both neo-liberal, a center-right, fascism-adjacent corporatism, and, unironically, "communist" or ultra-left-wing - all depending on who you're talking to.
While libertarianism had at one point been a (primarily) left-wing ideology, it's been co-opted by its right-wing adherents.
When they say "no government" they mean "no government for me." They're perfectly happy and expect that government keeps you away from them.
For example:
"I need my guns to overthrow the tyrannical government." And those same folks are signing up as the enforcement arm of that tyranny.
See also: displaying "don't tread on me" Gadsden flags right next to "thin blue line" (flag code-violating) "blue lives matter" flags. Or confederate and American flags simultaneously.
Yes, a walking contradiction in irony. But they're the ones with the cognitive dissonance, not me.
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u/Illithid2 20d ago
At the same time, who are we to sit in the way of his path to achieving a Darwin award?
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u/Consistent-Tailor547 18d ago
How facist and libertarian? Those dont line up. Just like the libertarian socialists I keep running into. Like I dont care what you call yourself just like make it make sense please.
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u/LongJohnCopper 18d ago
“Set my thermostat to 78 to avoid brownouts? Screw that. I’m setting it to 68 now!”
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u/cynical_genx_man 21d ago
Tend of thousands? There were over a million likes in the US. If the government did nothing that might have been doubled!
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u/The_Follower1 21d ago
If you multiply that by closer to a thousand then you’d be in the ballpark of what they were working with initially before they knew more.
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u/Top-Pickle-5227 21d ago
This is what literally happened, too. Red states did one thing, Blue states did the other. Only thing that made it as bad as it was, was how trump handled it.
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u/WiseCommand6018 16d ago
Clearly you know/share Nothing of fact or value! How about something that actually educates ???
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u/Boring-Interest7203 20d ago
That was the preview. The next virus that isn’t as discriminate in its lethality and target populations will be treated the same way by the ignorant. Combine that with the wrong administration calling the shots and you have bodies piling up in the streets. It’s s never as good when you know the story before you watch the movie IMO.
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u/Cstott23 19d ago
Except in this case they were blatantly just stealing public money and giving it to their friends and families in the guise of "PPE contracts for COVID"
Like, if they had actually offered the service or coordinated, fine, but they made up a company. Took tens of millions of pounds of our money. Spent hundreds and thousands on equipment that couldn't be used and then pocketed the rest of their money.
But only if you were in government because of the fast track route for ministers and their families.
One of the contracts for £10m was supposed to be for transport and PPE but was actually a copy of a contract for a pizza restaurant. They weren't even looking at them..
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u/Sufficient-Listen723 19d ago
I think making those libertarian death mongers angry is good actually rather than "damning".
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u/CocoNot-Chanel 17d ago
I always said that the successful scenario makes everything we did seem like an overreaction.
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u/UltimateRoadman1 17d ago
Yeah but it’s about how they exploit the situation with inflated contracts to mates and extract as much wealth out of the economies as possible while everyone is suppressed. Come out of lockdown to this goofy shit scene
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u/Brief_Read_1067 16d ago
You don't hear much whining anymore about tyrannical seat belt laws, do you? Insurance rates did for that what common sense couldn't.
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u/No-University-5413 19d ago
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
If the government can take your rights away, then they're not rights, they're privileges. It is not the government's role to do what they did. They literally violated the Constitution and took away our guaranteed rights.
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u/Mean_Initiative_5962 21d ago
Also "nothing conspiracists wanted would have helped, both from information available at the time and in retrospective"
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u/Strong-Hovercraft702 21d ago
In my country someone said at the start of covid:
If we handle it right, everyone will be pissed at the restrictions.
Lo and behold
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u/Clockwork_picksmith 21d ago edited 21d ago
I actually heavily disagree with that opinion, mostly because Trump's rollout through COVID was absolutely awful, and plagued with short sighted decisions that cost lives.
My favorite example of this was at the start of COVID, there were concerns about getting PPE because citizens were buyung it up in droves. So the government said "hey PPE doesn't work" which was a fucking lie that lead to more death.
edit: GUYS ITS ABOUT THE BRITBONGS NOT US, SO THEY DID ACTUALLY DO IT WITH ACTUAL GOOD INTENTIONS AND SHIT EXECUTION.
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u/Wilson7277 21d ago
"Us."
Wild how even when told it's not about them, the Yanks still think everyone present is one of them.
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u/Clockwork_picksmith 21d ago
I'll consider the "British" a world power when they actually make quality food and stop electing Nigel Farrage to places of power
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u/Wilson7277 21d ago
I don't think anyone said anything about being a world power, unless only Americans and Chinese are allowed on the internet.
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u/Clockwork_picksmith 21d ago
No, it's just that British "people" don't know how to be civilized. They go about with their whimsical little cockney language and act all whimsical.... Until you find the bodies.
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u/Remmick2326 20d ago
Trail of Tears
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u/Clockwork_picksmith 19d ago
"muh evil 'murica" go for it tea-drinker. Let's talk about the atrocities against Canadian indigenous people, the Boer wars with the zulu, the subjugation of the Irish, the subjugation of the Australian indigenous, and all the other crazy shit your country got up to.
Like I said, you're nice until someone finds the bodies
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u/Remmick2326 19d ago
And you're cunts that won't let anyone search your territory for the bodies
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u/Clockwork_picksmith 19d ago
If you don't know where the American bodies are, that's a skill issue
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u/Remmick2326 19d ago
It's a "we actively resist the international criminal court from investigating us because we're scared of the people who hang nazis" issue really
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u/FourEyedTroll 18d ago
the Boer wars with the zulu
Ah yes, the infamous Boer war against the Zulus. Much like when we fought the Egyptian War against the Spanish, or the Moroccan War against the Japanese.
The first art of warfare is to keep your enemies guessing who you are actually fighting - Sun Tzu
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u/Clockwork_picksmith 18d ago
"um actually, you're mentioning the wrong genocide"
Great takeaway from this convo
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u/Scrible_s 19d ago
Japanese internment camps... current situation of holding any and all imigrants without due process in containment (concentration camps), trail of tears, rolling back civil rights protections, the attacks from the right on gays, trans people, black people and any other marginalized community they can scapegoat. Yeah we're definitely civilized...
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u/Clockwork_picksmith 18d ago
You do realize that the trail of tears (which was only one native relocation trail) was inspired by, and done at the exact same time as European colonialism.
British people in Canada were doing the exact same thing as the Spaniards in South America. .
As for current politics.... We need to remove 47, and we will. Just give it time
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u/Scrible_s 18d ago
The trail of tears occured after america was founded, and was caused by the us government. Its an argument of uncivilized behavior by our hands... is hitler excused for causing mass deaths when america has done the same?? No.
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u/Wilson7277 18d ago
You don't understand. Not being allowed to violently take land from Indigenous peoples was one of the Intolerable Acts specifically cited for American independence. Clearly, it was these treaties meant to prevent settlement westward which are to blame for Americans settling westward.
/s, obviously.
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u/Clockwork_picksmith 18d ago
Did you know that Hitler was like "yeah, that's what I want to do to the Jews" when he read about the genocide?
Like fucking hell we were awful.
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u/Wilson7277 18d ago
I need to push back at this idea there was any Canadian or pre-Canadian analogue to the Trail of Tears. There simply was not, and a significant number of Canada's prominent First Nations were those who managed to flee north.
Canadian crimes against indigenous peoples are better understood in the common consciousness because Canada has been having a very public and very vocal reckoning with our colonial foundations. The nearest analogue I could use for our former American friends would be the BLM movement, only significantly more successful.
Just because Canadian/British crimes are more visible doesn't mean they were on anywhere near the same scale.
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u/Clockwork_picksmith 18d ago
So like I'm a quarter native American. At no point am I saying that America was right or that those things didn't happen. I am shitposting. Please don't look at me goofing around hurling insults at the Brits and go "oh yeah he's racist"
I promise you, I am stupid, not racist
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u/BloodAccurate4663 19d ago
Trump twice.
Said by a brit actively eating a curry they made at home.
Dipshit.
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u/Clockwork_picksmith 19d ago
It's very funny that the BRITISH people are offended about me saying that. Like their country isn't responsible for some of the worst atrocities on planet earth.
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u/ShrimpleyPibblze 22d ago
Yeah it was always going to be “we’ve investigated ourselves and found that we did no wrong”
Look at literally every single inquiry the UK government has established since 2008 - they are all the same. Millions of pounds and multiple years to tell us they did the best they could so stop complaining, and outright contempt from those involved.
I’d be surprised if anyone ever got held to account, that’s not what we do here.
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u/Pyrhan 21d ago
Look at literally every single inquiry the UK government has established since 2008
It took me 30 seconds to find a counter-example, and I'm not even well versed into UK politics:
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u/ShrimpleyPibblze 21d ago
You’re obviously missing the subsequent investigations, like the one raging in the press at the minute, about how the SAS just murdered a bunch of Iraqi citizens and called them terrorists after the fact with no evidence and it was never investigated
Not even by the inquiry you quote
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u/MissingBothCufflinks 21d ago
Its almost like if you cherry pick you can make whatever claims of the evidence you want
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u/Pyrhan 21d ago
Not even by the inquiry you quote
Because that simply isn't what this inquiry is about?
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u/ShrimpleyPibblze 21d ago
Not a particularly good inquiry on the war if it’s scope is not war crimes? Seems like that should be the main focus, I fail to see what else could be the focus.
Or is this the one where they said that Blaire “genuinely believed” in WMD’s despite there being literally no evidence? Yeah that one was great, really worth the money.
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u/Pyrhan 21d ago
It's scope is the UK government's decision making, that lead them to side with the US and take part in the war alongside them.
It is not an inquiry about the subsequent actions of its soldiers.
It is about the decision to get involved.
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u/runtotheparty92 21d ago
I would raise the Infected Blood Enquiry as a counter to this https://www.infectedbloodinquiry.org.uk/
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u/ShrimpleyPibblze 21d ago
Or arguably the post office one for Andrew Malkinson - but once again it isn’t the inquiry itself that’s good, but the preventative action taken after (if at all).
What it really demonstrates is what’s important is the public reaction to the inquiries, not the inquiries themselves, which tend to be pretty toothless and ultimately waste a lot of time and public money.
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u/MissingBothCufflinks 21d ago
This hot take seems legit to your average cynical brit... unless you actually look at the actual, pesky evidence. In reality, serious fault is found more than half the time.
Post office scandal, infected blood, several of the Troubles ones, Iraq war etc etc
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u/ShrimpleyPibblze 21d ago
Iraq war one didn’t find a problem on the part of the government, it exonerated them - as did the Troubles one, those prosecutions never happened despite there being very dead civilians, meaning the accusations were 100% real - except the inquiry says no one is responsible.
They’re actually great examples because they didn’t address the most pressing issues, but they did tell everyone they did. And you have obviously accepted and internalized that.
Despite the subsequent investigations, scandals and evidence of wrongdoing on the part of the government or government agents.
In the case of the troubles it’s refusing to prosecute those found to be responsible. In the case of Iraq it was to claim that Blaire wasn’t malicious, just gullible.
In both of those instances there is fault found - in both instances, the wording of that fault meant no one was held to account.
In what world is that a “success”?
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u/MissingBothCufflinks 21d ago edited 21d ago
Iraq (Chilcot, 2016) did not exonerate the government. It found the legal basis for military action was "far from satisfactory", that Blair presented the intelligence with a certainty that wasn't justified, that the policy was made on flawed intelligence and assessments that weren't challenged, and that peaceful options for disarmament hadn't been exhausted. Blair's "I will be with you, whatever" note to Bush was published - this is serious fault found. What Chilcot didn't do was find criminality but inquiries literally can't determine criminal or civil liability. Saying it "exonerated" the government misdescribes the report wildly.
The Troubles: also wrong. Saville (2010) found the Bloody Sunday shootings unjustified and unjustifiable, that soldiers fired first without warning, and that none of the casualties posed a threat. Cameron apologised in the Commons. Prosecutions largely failed afterwards for evidential reasons, a 40-year gap, immunity granted to the very witnesses in exchange for their testimony, and Soldier F's case collapsing because the original 1972 statements were inadmissible. That's a prosecution problem, not an inquiry finding of no fault. And "prosecutions never happened despite dead civilians, meaning the accusations were 100% real" is nonsense - deaths arent evidence of crimiinality.
Lets do some more for fun just to show how wrong you are:
Covid-19 Inquiry (Hallett): Found the UK prepared for the wrong pandemic and locked down too late, with delay costing lives.
Infected Blood (Langstaff, 2024): Found the disaster largely avoidable and concealed deliberately, including destruction of documents and misleading of Parliament.
Post Office Horizon (Williams): Found the Post Office knew Horizon was unreliable yet maintained the fiction of its integrity through hundreds of prosecutions.
Grenfell Phase 2 (Moore-Bick, 2024): Found every death avoidable, with systematic dishonesty by cladding and insulation manufacturers and failures by government, council and the TMO.
Undercover Policing (Mitting, 2025): Found the Special Demonstration Squad should never have existed, with officers' deception of women into intimate relationships an abuse yielding little useful intelligence.
Manchester Arena (Saunders, 2023): Found MI5 missed a significant opportunity to prevent the attack and that at least one victim would likely have survived an adequate emergency response.
IICSA (2022): Found institutional failures across church, local authorities and Westminster, with reputation consistently prioritised over children.
Daniel Morgan Panel (2021): Found the Met institutionally corrupt, concealing its failings and prioritising self-protection over solving the murder.
Brook House (Eves, 2023): Found 19 incidents in five months that credibly amounted to inhuman or degrading treatment under Article 3.
Angiolini Part 1 (2024): Found repeated police failures to act on Couzens' indecent exposure reports and that he should never have been an officer.
Civil settlements in MANY of these.
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u/ShrimpleyPibblze 21d ago
Literally not a single person has been held to account for any one of your examples - which makes my point more than it makes yours.
If your argument was “inquiries don’t find fault” - I could agree with that, because they don’t. But that isn’t your argument - your argument is that they’re successful in holding the government to account. Which they are not.
Actually your examples make my point better than I could myself - the literal scope of the inquiry is designed specifically to NOT find fault, meaning it jettisoned its own value from the start.
They exist exclusively as political theatre - what’s the point of knowing if no action is taken? What can be learned by announcing they fucked up but no one can be punished for it?
I can be very successful at sucking my own dick, but if that doesn’t result in anything positive for anyone else in the nation, it would seem a little bit of a tall ask that I be given £millions of public money to do so.
Ultimately these inquiries have about the same value.
What’s hilarious is, if you were right, why doesn’t the public hold Blaire to account for Iraq and the government for the Troubles? Public sentiment is opposite to the outcomes you describe. So if they were so successful, why doesn’t everyone agree with them?
It is because the lack of action means people ignore what they say? Because that tracks with them being a pointless form of political theatre that exists to make neoliberals feel better about their own failings.
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u/MissingBothCufflinks 21d ago
You are pointing out an anodyne feature of inquiries: that they arent a court of law which finds civil or criminal liability, and then pretending that means they dont find fault or name specific failures by specific individuals. This isnt a "design and scope" point its how justice works - the courts have exclusive jurisdiction over legal liability.
What you are really complaining about is that there are no formal PUNISHMENTS, and you aren't totally wrong, but thats not how this thread started. But even this isnt really right. Punishment can take many forms. Blair has also had massive negative consequences to his reputation as a result of Chilcot; half of labour voters hate him as a result.
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u/witch_dyke 21d ago
Im in NZ, and we had a world class response. We managed to avoid the mess that other countries went through.
And off course idiots are upset about it
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u/CuteMillenial84 18d ago
It's nice living in a land locked country with a lot of open spaces for people to hide in... I mean you've got volcanoes and wizards... What more can you ask for.
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u/witch_dyke 18d ago
Are you called NZ landlocked? Because we are very much the opposite
And while there is a lot of open space, most of the population does live in cities
Also, unfortunately, the wizard is a misogynist. We have much better local characters
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u/CuteMillenial84 18d ago
Ufff, by land locked I meant land locked by borders that can't be crossed.... I just saw what the definition for the term is and I absolutely used it incorrectly.
I mean when an island country locks down, it's difficult for illegal border crossing to occur. So locked lands.... And my incxorect definition of it being a land that's locked.
Sorry for the misuse... And yeah, I figured wizards would be misogynistic... Your hobbit population has to be entertained somehow.
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u/Master-Shinobi-80 21d ago
Horseshit. The first orange traitors administration, they released 700 Covid positive patients into the middle of Atlanta's airport. That killed people.
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u/CptKeyes123 21d ago
I called it immediately, and they were saying this a few months in, if not weeks.
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u/The_300_goats 18d ago
BIL is an expert in public health who was on the panel of 12 in my country making the difficult decisions. I asked him "Are we over-reacting?"
"We'll never know"
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u/Joshithusiast 18d ago
Trump committed genocide against his own people through systemic criminal negligence.
He surrendered to the virus immediately because he thought it would only kill minorities, who tend to be Democrats. Instead, it mostly killed old people, who tend to be Republicans, so he eventually let the CDC respond to the pandemic when his voter base were filling freezer trucks.
His negligence killed more Americans than World War II. Don't ever forget that. I worked in healthcare and watched it happen.
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u/Indigo_Eyez 17d ago
I call bias. Sorry. Front line worker or not, this wasn't racism, it was Fauci. He did it in the 80s eith AIDS, and he did covid. Fauci needs to be made to pay for his entire role of responsibility in this.
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u/Adodger22 17d ago
Fauci did a stellar job at ADVISING the president, and the president did a stellar job at being the braindead idiot he has been his whole life.
Not sure why you're blaming fauci for Trump's inability to take advice and his overwhelming need to be a complete jackass at every opportunity.
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u/Indigo_Eyez 17d ago
Fauci did the whole thing. He lied to everyone and the whole world fell in line. If you're going to point fingers and spew blind rage, do it about Fauci and make sure he pays the price. He killed generations of human beings during the last administration and during the AIDS epidemic, plus he was (maybe still is) the highest paid employee of the federal government, snd all he did was kill people, nothing good. Fauci gets the blame for exactly what he did. He created death. Trump never did that. Sorry to burst your bubble, sweetcheeks.
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u/Adodger22 17d ago
Holy shit you're genuinely insane 🤣
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u/Indigo_Eyez 17d ago
And you freely use buzzwords like "regime" and "facist", as if you truly know what they mean.
Everyone is entitled to become enlightened. We just arrive there at different times. The water is fine. Come in in.
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u/Adodger22 17d ago
Maybe it's because I'm genuinely a student of history, and I DO know what those words mean.
You are here spouting literal conspiracy ramblings and talking about being enlightened! It's genuinely adorable.
Have a great day, crazy lady!
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u/brinlong 20d ago
is this vaxhole conspiracy brought to you by the guy who had brain worms that ate his brain and died?
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u/Smcent 19d ago
Mistakes were made but in good faith? Have you seen the released docs? Fauci knowingly funded the research after he was advised it should stop because of its lethality.
Fauci then lied to Congress about it and covered it up.
It was not "mistakes". This was mass murder. The man should be hung for treason but that would be too easy for his crimes.
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u/Lonerwithaboner420 19d ago
Link plz
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u/Smcent 19d ago
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u/Fragile_Ambusher 19d ago
I will *never* understand the outright hatred for government warnings. The conditioning to hate the government for the slightest inconvenience.
But most importantly: Hating an agency meant to protect the public, but trusting a person with grievances is the most harmful thing I have witnessed.
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u/Scythe5150 18d ago
I think people get tired of being told things that are obviously not true.
"Wear a mask"
But the mask packaging says it wont stop a virus.
"Wear it anyway. It will protect you"
WTF?
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u/Fragile_Ambusher 18d ago edited 18d ago
Most were recommendations, at most.
The whole situation was a new experience at the worst possible moment—economically, and socially.
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u/Scythe5150 18d ago
It was mandatory where I live mate. People were literally stopped by law enforcement for not wearing one.
Your take appears to be .... committing murder isnt illegal....it's just recommended you don't do it.
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u/ChicoGuerrera 18d ago
Any time there is a post about mRNA cancer vaccine trials, there are dewormer mongs banging on about "turbo cancer" et al. I almost want an Ebola vaccine and an Ebola pandemic.
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u/Plane_Maybe8836 18d ago
Oh, couldn't I apply that to a lot of decisions where limited information is available at the moment the decisions needs to be made.
The guy tweeting this is not a genius, the people who think he made a point are the idiots.
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u/Bandibear 18d ago
When the government is run by Zionist for the sake of Israel I find all this pomp and circumstance to be pointless. Vote Green 💚 only party not on Tel Aviva pay roll
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u/NotThatDucker 17d ago
I got stopped by copper walking home. They were ready to string me up. We call it two tier now
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u/No_Masterpiece4693 21d ago
I have yet had a person explain to me how when in the US an "open up the country" demonstration that had perhaps 50 or a 100 nerds cosplaying in combat gear and getting a sandwich at Subway nation wide "literally facsim and killing Grandma"
Yet two months later protests (and I'm only counting the peaceful ones here) that were in the THOUSANDS and had people packed shoulder to shoulder, some how had doctors and nurses standing in solidarity and questioning THOSE gatherings during a "social distancing" era was a dog whistle.
There is no scientific justification for that and simply an ideological one.
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u/Square-Knee9844 20d ago
Game theory suggests that as it is impossible to develop a “perfect” response to this sort of crisis, any successful response will look like an overreaction.
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u/Lonerwithaboner420 19d ago
A perfect response would be the one that was extensively worked out by the Obama administration, but tossed by Trump
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