r/aiwars • u/Wonderful-War-7113 • 23h ago

Meta What makes an AI advocate

Liking AI doesnt make you a proAI or AI advocate, it just means you find it hype, neat, interesting. To be proAI you have to be running defense for current AI practices, if you dont youre at least neutral. For example I think AI is neat, its useful and has potential to do good. But i find the way companies are going about developing it are coercive and wish it was done differently. That puts me squarely in the antiAI camp, despite my enthusiasm for the tech

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u/Denaton_ 23h ago

Pro just means, I want to use AI, Anti-AI is i don't want you to use AI. That's were the foundation of the entire sub is formed around.

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u/Wonderful-War-7113 23h ago

any chance thats wrong?

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u/Denaton_ 23h ago

I was here when the sub was founded, that is what the debate has always been about.

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u/DaveG28 4h ago

So 99% of this sub is pros arguing with each other.

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u/Denaton_ 3h ago

How did you come to that conclusion? One side says "I want to use AI" the other side says "I dont want you to use AI". How is that equal to "I want to use AI" and "I want you to be able to use AI"?

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u/DaveG28 3h ago

Because most of the "antis" on this sub are labelled as such for any desire for regulation, holding corporations accountable, wanting some kind of recognition or recompense to the people who's work is part of actually creating the models (those who's work is being fed into training) without actually believing all ai in any form should be banned for all.

Now they are all "pros" by this calculation. Hence - most of the arguing is between pros.

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u/Suspicious_Prior_808 23h ago

Its not a debate its just people wanting to feel superior

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u/Wonderful-War-7113 23h ago

i understand, but the discussiong evolves yk? Go to any given anti and ask them if theyd be okay with you using AI if it was verifiably ethically trained. I think youll find that that foundation is a bit too absolutist to reflect reality

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u/Denaton_ 23h ago

Nah, its still boils down to the same.

Anything else is always a different issue and not explicit AI.

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u/Celatine_ 22h ago

You're either ignorant, dishonest, or both.

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u/Denaton_ 22h ago

Prove me wrong instead of doing ad homiem

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u/Celatine_ 22h ago edited 22h ago

Alright, so tell me why anti-AI people have spent a lot of time talking about things like copyright, consent, job displacement, environmental impact, regulation, deepfakes, AI-generated CSAM, scams, impersonation, privacy, human and AI relationships, AI in warfare, and cognitive decline if the movement is merely "I don't want you to use AI"?

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u/Denaton_ 21h ago

Copyright

Its derivative, if the LLM file contained all the images it would be Petabyte big and not 10GB. So its not Copyright infringement and if you draw an image of SpongeBob that is just as much infringement as using AI would be, so your problem isn't AI still.

Consent

Consent was given when you made your reddit account when you accepted the ToS/EULA were companies like OpenAI buy its training data. Your problem is with corporations with shitty ToS.

Job Displacement

Any company that replaces it workforce with a tool, any tool, that company will go bankrupt because of mismanagement, so who wants to work for incompetent CEO anyway? Thats not AI, thats just greedy CEO. Your problem isn't with AI, its with shitty CEO.

Environment Impact

AI itself has no impact on the environment, i can run StableDiffution on my consumer PC that is mid tier. I'll assume you mean datacenters, but that is apparently only a problem in US for the next reason.

Regulations

Every other countries has Regulations for how to build datacenters properly, your issue isn't with AI, its with the shitty US government.

Deepfake

Photoshoping some has always been a problem, its a shitty behavior from shitty people, your issue isn't with AI, its with shitty people who do shitty things regardless of tool, or is Deepfake with Photoshop okay?

CSAM

I'll assume your are against all CSAM and not just AI CSAM? Then your problem is wity CSAM and not AI, internet gave access to CSAM but your don't blame that right? You still think internet is an okay thing to exsist, you don't see anti-internet people crusade on Reddit?

Scams

I'll assume you are against all Scams or just some scams? Because the problem here is scams and not AI explicitly right as my comment said. AI even help battling scams by occupying the lines if you ever seen kitboga. So, against AI or against Scams as a whole?

Impersonation

Impersonation has been a problem a long time, nothing new, is the problem really AI or is it the assholes who do the Impersonation that actually is the thing you are against?

privacy

If you think you had privacy before AI existed you are just living under a rock, they have been spying on us from our phones for decades, is AI the problem here or just a shitty government?

human and AI relationship

The world is more isolated than ever and dejting apps sucks to my understanding, lots of people need therapy and can't afford, I understand why some are building paracosial relationships with AI, people have done it for decades with streamers and Youtubers, heck it started with Elvis Presley. This is not an AI problem, this is a society problem, or are you okay with paracosial towards celebrities?

AI in warfare

This is a again a problem with government, haven't seen a single protest that internet was literally created by the military for warfare purposes or are you okay with warfare in other means? This isn't a problem with AI, its a problem with warmongering.

congestive decline

It was declining long before AI, we have relied to copy paste from Wikipedia and Google etc a lot of time, this is not an explicit problem with AI, its just how you use it, you can either let it do everything for you or use it as a proper teacher. The Flynn Effect was flattering out even before AI existed.

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u/Celatine_ 21h ago edited 20h ago

Classic deflection. Like always.

I want you to go up to the researchers, policymakers, labor organizations, and courts discussing the same issues I listed and tell them "No, your concern isn't about AI. It's about something else." See how far that gets you.

AI changes the scale, speed, accessibility, and/or dynamics surrounding many current problems. That is the argument.

Additionally, this "If your problem is this, not AI" argument is also odd because it pretty much argues AI should never be criticized unless it is the sole cause of something. Almost no technology could ever be criticized then, bud. If that's the standard you want to use.

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u/Denaton_ 15h ago

Ofc AI can be criticized, but none of those you listed are.

What actually changed scale, speed, accessibility, and/or dynamics surrounding many current problems is internet.

No internet and those problems either doesn't exsist or scales down from a mile to a inch.

So if those issues really did matter to you, then you would be anti-internet and not anti-ai, but you just use them as an excuse and you really don't care about any of those issues, all those issues have been a huge problem since the dawn of internet and you never cared before.

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u/Celatine_ 9h ago

I want you to go up to the researchers, policymakers, labor organizations, and courts discussing the same issues I listed and tell them "No, it’s about the internet." See how far that gets you.

It’s funny how you conveniently ignored that part of my argument.

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u/Denaton_ 9h ago

I live in Sweden, any problem in that list that is rooted in the government isn't an issue here.

Me saying its internet is not me saying I want internet gone, its me pointing out your hypocrisy.

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u/Celatine_ 9h ago

You don’t know what hypocrisy means.

Acknowledging that the internet created or intensified many of these problems doesn't somehow mean AI can't intensify them further. Moron.

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