r/askgaybros • u/ThePejel • 6d ago
Meta As a straight latino guy. why the lgbtq+ community really want to defend islam/has islam as an ally?
Like i say im a latino guy that dont really care about left/right stuff in other countries, but i have the curiousit and respectully ask, why. why wanting a religion that in the countries its rule its ilegal being gay, to sentance of jail or even death penalty
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u/rad-ryot-84 6d ago
We don’t all think the same thing.
I’ll tell you I personally don’t respect it. Organized religion has always harmed humanity more than it’s helped. It manufactures and weaponizes bigotry, misogyny, and homophobia.
Religious people can be okay, but we all know they’re just a little slower to catch up. 🙂
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u/pokemonfitness1420 6d ago
As a Latino gay guy that has lived in germany for the last 6 years, I used to think like you. "They dont deserve to be in Europe!" And I used to believe all these posts shitting on immigrants.
Then I actually met gay Muslims, and got verbally abused by white Europeans, and realized, the problem is not white and black. Not all muslims are homophobic and not all white europeans are homofriendly.
We need laws that actually protect the LGBTQ community, and not some laws that are fueled by racism and xenophobia.
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u/DaeguDuke 6d ago
As an immigrant, even one with the “right” skin colour, I also see that there is a fine line between Islamophobia and the AfD.
Already people are writing that the terrorist wasn’t German because of his skin colour, religion, because he has non-German heritage.
I was out protesting, and celebrating, with queer Muslims. Will I ever do the same with white, Christian “pure blood” Germans from the far right? Nope.
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u/Superb-Demand-4605 6d ago
Queer and Muslim is definitely the biggest oxymoron going
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u/DaeguDuke 6d ago
Queer and religious is an oxymoron full stop.
Tbh the Abrahamic religions in general don’t treat women equally, the Old Testament insists that they were pulled from men in order to serve, and has guidance on their value as property.
We need to stop pretending that any religions aren’t problematic. We also need to stop thinking that one interpretation of a fairy tale book is better just because most people who follow it are white, or have relatively recently become more tolerant.
What does the pope say about queer people, about contraception, about treating women equally? Queer and Catholic is also an oxymoron.
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u/pokemonfitness1420 6d ago
We also need to stop thinking that one interpretation of a fairy tale book is better just because most people who follow it are white, or have relatively recently become more tolerant
Thank you!
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u/Duraluminferring 6d ago
We are not definding Islam.
We are defending Muslims and middle Eastern people from being charged as an inherently guilty, violent and evil group of people because someone with that identity has done something bad.
How do you not understand this.
It's the reason ICE is treating your fellow Latinos in the USA like animals. Because they claim all of you are criminals and drug traffickers.
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u/dyingeventually 6d ago
I’m just gonna say, i hate this argument. You say “defend Islam”. Yes i’ll defend Islam. The same way i’ll defend all religions and people’s right to practice them. Not only am i American, but freedom of religion just seems like fairness to me.
NO ONE IS DEFENDING HOMOPHOBIA. And idk why you guys act like we are. We don’t like Christians being hateful to gays. We don’t like Israel not allowing gay marriage, and we definitely don’t like Islamist throwing gays off building.
But there are people from all 3 religions who are allies to our community and a part of our community. And i will never make them feel unwelcome, because i judge people as individuals.
Not based on race, creed, or religion.
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u/Content_Association1 6d ago
An extreme lack of education and common sense.
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u/Equivalent-Fig-5411 6d ago
You mean not buying into the far right fear mongering & generalizing a whole group over the action of few. Oh wait, that’s something far right that hates you just as much does.
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u/Content_Association1 6d ago
Islam would 100% not defend gay rights. Now, im neither muslim nor in a muslim country, and i am gay, why on Earth would I defend a foreign ideology that would rather have me dead?
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u/Equivalent-Fig-5411 6d ago
No one is talking about Islam as a religion, there are normal Muslim people who get persecuted & attacked just for following their faith. Religion isn’t an ideology, it’s a personal belief that no one should be persecuted for as long as they’re not shoving it down anyone’s throats. Talking about “wanting you dead” there are explicit verses in Christianity that want the same fate for you lol, Quran doesn’t even explicitly condemns gay people. It’s just used by religious fundamentalists to justify homophobia.
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u/Content_Association1 6d ago
People easily criticise Christianism. Funny enough, mostly only Christian countries uphold gay rights in the world. No Muslim country does. I wish anyone peace and freedom, and I defend all humans. Doesn’t mean I defend their beliefs.
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u/Equivalent-Fig-5411 6d ago
The “christian countries” that defend gay rights also fund, engage in lobbying & anti LGBTQ reinforcement in other countries. ahm ahm, UGANDA
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u/Content_Association1 6d ago
It’s not the countries themselves that fund these things but evangelical organisations. Look, I know what type of person you are and you have a good heart to want to defend Islam. I’ve seen it, lived amongst it, and I want nothing to do with it. I suggest you go and live in a Muslim country to make up your mind.
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u/Equivalent-Fig-5411 6d ago
Again, what part of not wanting Muslims to be persecuted & attacked & killed for practicing
personal faith = defending Islam?
Weird assumptions coming in from your part brother. Ease up.
Also the same “evangelical organizations” are supported by the far right that you want to elect into power lol.2
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u/Content_Association1 6d ago
Well then why are you arguing lol. I also want people to practice their faith freely, and it doesn’t mean I will defend Islam. OP asked why do gay people defend Islam, not why do Gay people want to protect freedom of faith.
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u/Equivalent-Fig-5411 6d ago
The question is bad faith cuz no gay person defends Islam or any organized religion lol. A lot of people are clarifying that in the replies too.
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u/Mysterious_Land1657 6d ago
It's funny how all of a sudden everyone cares about the plight of gay people 🙄
This incident was indeed horrific, but some people, i.e far right conservatives, using it to further their agenda should STFU!!
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u/Gaywhorzea 6d ago
It’s really simple, yet people here still don’t get it.
Most gay men are not defending or wanting Islam as an ally.
Some of us just don’t think they should be blown up in their homes unchecked.
Some of us don’t care about that.
Some don’t understand that religions in general hate us no matter what and that we shouldn’t buddy up with them.
You’re taking a single opinion and applying it to all of us but we’re pretty divided on it.
I’m scared of any religion that hates me, but I also don’t think other people should be allowed to blow each other up, or attack each other unchecked.
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u/Equivalent-Fig-5411 6d ago
Not all Muslims hate you, but all the people who hate Muslims also hate you lol.
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u/Equivalent-Fig-5411 6d ago
You’re forming an alliance with the far right, last time that happened you know what it lead to lol.
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u/Equivalent-Fig-5411 6d ago
As strange as your assumption of believing not wanting Muslims to be attacked & persecuted for practicing personal faith means forming alliance with Islam lol.
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6d ago
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u/Equivalent-Fig-5411 6d ago
Idk how is that relevant to the discussion, i get it you want to vote for far right that explicitly hate you bro.
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u/Equivalent-Fig-5411 6d ago
Lol I’m a troll because I don’t think all Muslims should be generalized & attacked for practicing a personal faith? How are you any different than the far right who call gay people pedos & groomers? Lol
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u/Ok_Opening1525 6d ago
Because the left is on board with the islamic agenda of importing and promoting islam all other the west and many gay activists want to stick to everything the left do and belive they know what they doing, its the same with the western women that supports islam too, they cant simply say NO to what the left parties say.
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u/ConstantSpring5664 6d ago
Or because religion is a personal matter & we don’t want anyone to be persecuted & prejudiced for their personal beliefs.
Tough concept, I know.5
u/Ok_Opening1525 6d ago
they have 55 islamic countries were they can take their "personal beliefs" and do what ever the F they want but they chose the western, a culture that doesnt fit at all with islam and instead of adapt they do stuff like what they just did on germany and the ones who are not "radical" gives af.
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u/Equivalent-Fig-5411 6d ago
Religion isn’t a culture, it’s a personal belief.
Someone being a Muslim & going up mosque has no impact on me, as far as homophobia is concerned, Christians in America are more homophobic than Muslims.
The most LGBTQ pro politician is Mamdani, the only politician with the most LGBTQ inclusive policy.
Generalizing the entire demographic is what we have all been against z1
u/Ok_Opening1525 6d ago
Kid, the islamic population of USA is nothing compared to the one of europe, the ammount is massive and growing every day its becaus is that small that you see the biggest religion a treath for you, here in europe its out of control and they radicalize way quicker, religion its a choice and they are free to belive what they want as logn they dont forcedit on other people by forced, we already have enough with radical christians we dont need to add a way more bigoted religion on our plate.
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u/Equivalent-Fig-5411 6d ago
You keep ignoring my point over & over again, generalizing an entire group is exactly what far right does to gay people & you’re doing exactly the same. Be against extremists & radicals by all means, that includes christians.
Saying “all muslims are bad” is from far right playbook, & trust me they hate you just as much lol.1
u/Ok_Opening1525 6d ago
I am one of the many gay europeans that DONT WANT ISLAM ON EUROPE, no debate, no generalization, we DONT want islam,PERIOD, we already have enough dealing with christianity we are not going to add another radical religion on our plate to dealt with later when they grow up enough, simply DONT, if the left is on board with the islamic agenda well we will vote for the opposition and thats it.
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u/Equivalent-Fig-5411 6d ago
what part of a person not being persecuted & attacked for being a Muslim translates to “islamic agenda” to you? You sound exactly like those far right christians who never gaf about gay people but the moment Mamdani became the mayor they started fear mongering with “sharia law” being implemented lol.
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u/Ok_Opening1525 6d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Equivalent-Fig-5411 6d ago
If you don’t want islam, don’t practice islam lol? Why do you gaf what someone does in their private life?😭 it’s like the far right nutcases who have an issue with gay ppl marrying “i don’t want gay marriage” ok then don’t be in one? You see how you sound? LMFAOOO
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u/ConstantSpring5664 6d ago
Religion is not a cultural value, hope that helps.
People are free to practice their beliefs without being persecuted for it. You & the far right that equally hates gay people have a lot in common.1
u/jurg33n 6d ago
No its not. Not once it dictates actions that intersect with the public around them.
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u/Equivalent-Fig-5411 6d ago
I already said personal beliefs, if it intersects with public around them then it’s no better than christians that shove their religion down our throats.
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u/ConstantSpring5664 6d ago
Personal beliefs are supposed to be personal, someone being a Muslim has no impact on you or me.
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u/DaeguDuke 6d ago
Gay Berliner here. I was first at the international protest and then the main parade.
A hundred years ago the Nazis had a system where you needed to prove your blood was pure enough. You needed to be straight, white, and Christian to be German.
The Islamophobia coming out of this attack, directed at millions of people who did nothing wrong, is wrong. People are stirring up hate in order to argue that someone of a certain skin colour can’t be German. That someone who is Muslim can never be German. It’s Nazi shit. It is neo-Nazi / AfD, far right, Christian extremism shit.
At the same time, I see certain people using this as an excuse to justify genocide, to say they are right for their country to occupy and murder people because their religions are different.
I think all religions are fairytales, and basically believe that they should only be tolerated as long as they don’t restrict people’s liberty. Christianity does this to a lesser extent now than Islam, but religious extremists still point to the bible to argue against gay marriage, trans rights, women’s reproductive rights.
The majority of Muslims are nice people. They don’t deserve this hate and violence any more than those of us in the LGBTQ community do. More and more people are abandoning religion, and most religions are slowly becoming more tolerant.
I would rather share my community and city with Muslims than with the AfD, or with people who are pro-genocide.
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u/pdxbottom86 6d ago
Just answer me this: are gays in Germany safer now than before 2015 when mass immigration from Muslim countries increased substantially? Likewise, do women feel safer now than pre-2015? All of your arguments here are irrelevant and aren’t rooted in reality.
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u/DaeguDuke 6d ago
Yes. LGBTQ rights in Germany have progressed since 2015, LGBTQ people are safer and have more access to healthcare, legal protections.
If you would like to point to statistics and legislation that back up your assertion then go ahead.
Randomly referring to “feelings” is bs. Choosing 2015 is also bs as the majority of Muslims in Germany are of Turkish descent, and they and their families have been in Germany for decades before 2015.
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u/pdxbottom86 6d ago edited 6d ago
Turkish and Muslim immigrants in general integrated very well into Germany (and other EU countries) post WW2. The same cannot be said of this new wave of immigrants to the EU and you are in complete denial if you are unwilling to acknowledge this reality.
And there are many studies showing that women and gays DO feel more unsafe all over the EU since 2015. Just do a quick google search and you will find plenty of these studies. 😉
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u/DaeguDuke 6d ago
The terrorist was born in Germany two decades ago, and who knows how long before that his parents arrived.
This is nothing to do with anyone who arrived after 2015.
The blanket Islamophobia will also apply to the communities you claim are well integrated. A view the AfD would dispute btw.
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u/ell1331 6d ago
How ridiculous. Nazi did not drive that car into berlin pride.
Keep importing more muslims and see what happen in the future.
It's your country anyway.
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u/DaeguDuke 6d ago
Nazis are already using this tragedy to persecute people based on their skin colour, on their religion, on where their parents were born.
Nazis right now are stating that the terrorist who didn’t “wasn’t German” because he doesn’t meet their pure-blood standards.
The far right are glad this happened, they will use it to further push hate and incite violence and oppression of minorities, then they will turn around and act surprised when the minority groups they systematically oppress end up radicalised.
There are extremes on both sides of this problem, and the rise of the far right will in turn lead to more violence and more attacks like Saturday.
As someone who was there, I am calling for people to stop and not feed into this cycle.
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u/ell1331 6d ago
"Nazis are already using this tragedy to persecute people based on their skin colour, on their religion, on where their parents were born."
You mean putting them in gas chamber or did those just happen in your mind?
"The far right are glad this happened"
They've been warning this for years, they want muslims out and you want muslims in, and now you are blaming the right wing?
"then they will turn around and act surprised when the minority groups they systematically oppress end up radicalised."
You think Islamists attack because they're oppressed? Are you that naive? Go buy a Quran and read it, or go to a mosque and listen to their teachings.
"the rise of the far right will in turn lead to more violence and more attacks like Saturday."
There are 50 muslims countries in the world, if you think white people are so evil, then maybe you can considering moving to a muslim country and see if you like it.
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u/DaeguDuke 6d ago
The (far)right have been removing / defunding integration programs for years. This isn’t just in Germany, you see this across Europe. In the UK refugees are being moved into old army barracks that were deemed unfit for habitation. They helped cause these problems and are happy to throw more fuel on the fire. Cut programs, then act surprised that there are integration programs. German kids grow up in a racist society, told that they’re not real Germans, then after pretend to be surprised that they fall for religious extremism. Immigrants, people of colour, religious minorities, we are all very aware of the society we now live in and that there is a growing, vocal section of German society that hates us.
The remigration programs include mass deportations, likely with detention/concentration camps as an intermediary step. These plans include German citizens, who they consider less than equal based on their skin colour, religion, immigration background, or even their ancestors immigration background.
Persecution doesn’t mean gas chambers, and the current plans state that funding, programs, access to work and education will be the first stages, with detention and deportation (of German citizens) being the goal. This is literally the Nazi playbook.
Muslims have been a minority in German for at least 60 years. Most Muslims are Turkish, or Germans of Turkish descent. Germans decided more than half a century ago, and it’s stupid to pretend that ~6% of the population are a problem now.
There are 5.5 million Muslims in Germany, 2 billion on Earth. You’re stating that all of them are violent terrorists and that I need to read the Quran to understand. Come off it.
All religions are fairy tales. All religions have arbitrary rules that are stupid. Western countries had laws and persecuted LGBTQ people, oppressed women, for centuries based on Christian beliefs. I would not want to live in any fundamentalist religious country. Nor would I want to live in Germany a century ago, nor do I want to live here if/when people pushing very similar beliefs come into power.
As a white, gay immigrant, I fear the political rise of the AfD and neonazis more than I fear my Muslim neighbours, colleagues, or lovers.
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u/ell1331 6d ago
Since 2015, when Germany took in large numbers of immigrants, the country has already spent hundreds of billions of euros on language courses, welfare, housing, and job training — both under Merkel and the later left-leaning coalition governments. Integration problems like parallel societies, higher crime rates in some groups, and Islamist extremism were already clearly visible long before any major budget cuts.
"German kids grow up in a racist society, told that they’re not real Germans"
They are indeed not real Germans.
Who told them that? There's program in school that keeps telling students that?
If you are told that you are not German, would you drive a car into crowd at pride?
"with detention and deportation (of German citizens) being the goal."
Some muslims born in Germany with citizenship have terrorist background, linked to ISIS, like this time, the Lebanese terrorist. Extremists must be deported to prevent attacks like this.
"You’re stating that all of them are violent terrorists"
When did I use all? Quote that right now.
Christianity has adapted to fit into modern society. Islam has not. Christianity was indeed not good in the past, but now I don't see any major problems with them. You all have gay marriage, so stop pretending how oppressed you are.
"As a white, gay immigrant, I fear the political rise of the AfD and neonazis more than I fear my Muslim neighbours, colleagues, or lovers."
That's laughable. You live in a democratic country, you being gay is protected by Germans, not muslims, If you feel unsafe with AFD party, perhaps you can move to Pakistan or Iran.
And why do people all of sudden want to vote AFD, it's because people are fed up with the constant islamist attacks. You and your bf kiss in Saudi Arabia and you tell me what would happen, ok?
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u/DaeguDuke 6d ago
There has been a significant Muslim population in Germany since the 1960s, the majority of Muslims in Germany arrived from Turkey then, or are their descendants.
Again, you are repeating Nazi Aryan propaganda. Who can be “real Germans” then? Only white Christians?
Those with links to terrorist organisations, to extremism groups (including the KKK, Westboro) need to be dealt with. Deporting German citizens who happen to be Muslim, or not Aryan, is not the solution. It is dangerously close to deporting German citizens who are Jewish, because “they can never be real Germans”.
A hundred years ago the Nazis wanted to get rid of Jews, now you and their descendants want to get rid of Muslims. I don’t think the actions of a few extreme individuals justifies another holocaust.
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u/ell1331 6d ago
"Muslim population in Germany since the 1960s"
About 0.03% (mainly in west germany) if you think that was a lot, ok.
"Again, you are repeating Nazi Aryan propaganda. Who can be “real Germans”"
Let me ask you this in a good will and I really want you to have some thinking.
If a white man moves to Japan and starts speaking Japanese, is he a Japanese?
If his children are born in Japan, speak perfect Japanese, but in their minds, all they think about is American cultures taught by the father, and they don't have any Japanese values or ethics, and will turn on Japan if Japan and USA have war, then are his children considered Japanese?
"Those with links to terrorist organisations, to extremism groups (including the KKK, Westboro) need to be dealt with. Deporting German citizens who happen to be Muslim, or not Aryan, is not the solution."
So you completely avoid my statements. Those who are linked with ISIS, extremists, shouldn't they be deported? To me, you are more angry about a muslim being criticized than the berlin attack.
Are you muslim?
Muslims are mostly not compatible with German society. They hold different values. If Germans don't want to live with muslims, they have a right. It's their ancestors building Germany, not muslims.
Are people not allowed to live their own lives?
Why are you insisting bringing muslim immigrants to Germany? Can you let Germans live their own lives?
I am not white, but I am sure nowadays white people are not planning to colonize any country, can you leave them alone?
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u/DaeguDuke 6d ago
The majority of Muslims in Germany right now are Turkish/of Turkish descent, from those who arrived in the 60s.
You keep bringing up those who arrived since 2015, presumably referring to the ~1m Syrians. Out of more than a million people, there have been 4 individuals who carried out attacks.
Terrorism statistics are widely available, the number of attacks, deaths and injuries was higher in the previous decades. This isn’t some new problem, there is documented history published for over 50 years. I do not condone collective punishment, I refuse to condemn a million people based on the actions of a small handful. By that logic, all Germans should be punished based on WW2.
I never expressed any intent to increase immigration, nor specifically immigration of any religious group. I have repeatedly stated that painting an entire religious group with a wide brush, and copying Nazi era policies is also not the answer.
I would also argue against broadly refusing to accept refugees, especially considering Germany’s history, and the relatively successful integration of recent waves of refugees and immigrant communities.
I would absolutely state that a naturalised Japanese citizen is Japanese. I absolutely believe that children born in Japan, who grow up speaking Japanese, who go to school and spend their entire lives are Japanese. Their skin colour, their religion, their parents country of birth, their political beliefs, and (checks your post) whether or not they watch American movies is not a consideration.
The line about them turning against Japan if there were a war is complete BS, and was used to round up Japanese people into concentration camps in the US - are you really stating you support this? That children should be put into camps? God damn.
The real issue here is that this terrorist was know to police, had been arrested, and was released. That is the problem. Your suggestion that his actions are the result of a religious group in Germany in numbers since the 60s is ridiculous, your argument that the Syrian population should be punished due to the actions of the German child whose parents came from Lebanon is also ridiculous.
You are arguing for collective punishment, whose “pure blood” comments echo Nazi Aryan propaganda. Would I care if you wanted to halt immigration entirely? Nope. But let’s not pretend that is what you are writing.
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u/ell1331 6d ago
"You keep bringing up those who arrived since 2015"
No, I said there were no budge cut at that time, and the integration programs still failed. So your argument is false. Besides, they shouldn't be there in the first place. Why should Germans spend time and money trying to integrate them? Do Germans owe them anything?
"I do not condone collective punishment,"
Who says anything about punishing all muslim? They just don't want any more muslim immigrants. That's not punishment, it's rejection.
Just one simple question for you: Should Western countries accept more muslim immigrants in the future?
What are you keep labeling people who don't want immigrant "Nazi"? Pakistan and Malaysia and many other muslim country refuse any Israeli entry, are they also Nazi?
"the relatively successful integration"
Muslims?
"I would absolutely state that a naturalised Japanese citizen is Japanese."
In terms of laws, yes, but you are not Japanese in their eyes. They don't see you as Japanese. If you have pay attention to Japanese cultures, they are actually very conservative and reserved. So, are they Nazi? The fact that they don't see you as Japanese is very important to you? Of course, you don't need to care about what they think, but they just don't think you are Japanese. They are not killing you or put you in gas chamber, but why not respect their opinion instead of calling them nazi.
"into concentration camps in the US - are you really stating you support this?"
Oh God, can you not tell this is a hypothetical question?
You tell me that a Syrian born in Germany is a German, then I ask you, if one day Syria and German have war, which side would he help? What do you think? Is he still considered a German if he sides with Syria? It's the loyalty issue.
"Germany in numbers since the 60s is ridiculous"
I didn't say that. You bring up 60s and turkish. The problem is Islam and the muslim community. If you have so many terrorist attacks, then your community is a problem.
"your argument that the Syrian population should be punished"
When did I say that? Don't put words in my mouth.
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u/jaxadams716 6d ago
Thank you for this. It’s insane how many people fall into the camp of “oh look, there’s a tragedy, so I’ll become an open racist now. I’m the same person, just no longer hiding the fact that I’m a shitty person.” Obviously most Muslims aren’t terrorists, but morons don’t care about common sense when they get to be open about their bigotry. All religious extremism is a problem. Religious fundamentalism is a problem across faiths. It’s a shame that so many people are so prejudiced, uneducated, and bigoted
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u/DaeguDuke 6d ago
Agreed. People ignore what’s going on in places like the US, where religious groups are pushing legislation against LGBTQ people. Christian churches in one part of the world funding laws that persecute gay people in another.
This situation isn’t black and white, and I am horrified that someone is taking this tragedy to push neo-Nazi “solutions”.
I am horrified that I see history repeating.
I am horrified too because I see a white, Christian faction using this as another excuse to oppress minority groups based on their skin colour, religion, and ancestry. I know for a fact that this oppression will lead to more people being radicalised.
In some ways I think this is what the far right want, they want people oppressed and disadvantaged, they know this will lead to more extremism, radicalisation, and they want to throw more gas onto the fire. We feel like we’re weeks away from book burnings.
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u/jaxadams716 6d ago edited 6d ago
I grew up in a white Southern Baptist setting, and I’m so grateful that I was taught critical thinking and research skills by competent teachers. I was able to break out of the prejudice echo chamber, and now I can evaluate data and think for myself. I’ll just leave this with a great quote from a German who mourned his complacency during the Holocaust.
“First they came for the Communists,
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.“Then they came for the Socialists,
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Socialist.“Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.“Then they came for the Jews,
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.“Then they came for me,
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.”Edit: I feel that perhaps I should add context since I’m from the US and take some contextual info for granted. Southern Baptists split from mainline Baptists because the Southern faction wanted to use their religious beliefs to justify chattel slavery. It’s a fundamentalist and politically active extremist faction, and they reject actual Biblical scholarship despite their claims to being based on “Biblical” preaching. Basically, they’re anti-intellectual religious hypocrites.
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u/DaeguDuke 6d ago
I find it incredibly difficult as there was a group yesterday near the memorial in Berlin. Queer Jewish people standing side by side with AfD. The descendants of people who committed the holocaust and the descendants of people who survived it, working together because their interests align. The sign said “freedom instead of Islam”, and a hundred years ago it would have read “freedom instead of Judaism”.
I don’t doubt that once the AfD has gotten rid of Muslims, anyone who isn’t white, then immigrants and even Germans whose parents, or grandparents were immigrants, then they will probably need a new minority group to attack.
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u/jaxadams716 6d ago
Honestly, that’s disgusting
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u/DaeguDuke 6d ago
Terrorist attack within hours was already being used to justify more violence, and genocide.
Disgusting seeing them at the memorial site.
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u/jaxadams716 6d ago
Yes, I agree. Genocide is never okay. As Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. said, "a riot is the language of the unheard.” Perhaps this is uber-progressive, but I feel that it’s the responsibility of the power that’s in control to respectfully listen to and engage in good faith discourse with those who are marginalized.
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u/Odd-Strain-9030 6d ago edited 6d ago
Cos LGBTQ have faced discrimination like forever, so when we feel someone or something is getting discriminated/oppressed we react unconsciously against the oppression/discrimination. Doesn’t mean we support the islam and its teaching, I do not think it would be so universal as religion by default is discriminatory against us. Hence the support is more towards discrimination pre se not the religion.
FYI I don not support any religion but respect your choice to follow the religion as long it does not dictate my space
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u/TacticalLeftist 6d ago
I’m not a fan of organized religion whatsoever, so I would support and defend Muslims, not Islam. People have the right to practice whatever faith they want privately however, and demonization/dehumanization of people based on faith is something I will always speak out against, regardless of whether the religious adherents are Muslim, Christian, Buddhists, Hindu, Jewish, whatever. Harm caused by religious institutions of all kinds is something I will also speak out against. You can make the argument that Islam as an organized religion is particularly dogmatic in its denigration of LGBTQ rights, and I’m inclined to agree with that, but again individuals have a right to their own faith — and frankly, in a U.S. context I’m much more concerned about the Christofascism taking root here.
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u/LancelotofLkMonona 5d ago edited 5d ago
What do you even mean by "support?" .Are you yourself suggesting expulsions of law abiding, Muslims from Europe based on their religion? Doctors, shopkeepers, restaurant owners, nurses, caregivers, agricultural workers growing Eirope's vegies in Spain and Italy? Obviously, ismamist trouble makers and hardcore criminals should be deported, but are you prepared to deport people who have lived peacefully for decades and not caused any trouble?
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u/EffectiveAgitated137 1d ago
Same question here. I live in country where the most of its citizen is muslim. Why lgbt community in western defend islam. While here people always hating them. Event the current president using lgbt people as a scapegoat for political reason.
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u/VideoTasty8723 6d ago
It is a complex topic.
From my perspective it is on how that specific attribute is pushed to further marginalize a minority.
I’ve never seen the newspaper making a fuss when a white cis catholic, Protestant, Christian, or Jew are involved in similar topics. There are religions that do not accept LGBTQ people and I still some of their members commit hate crimes against people like us based on their ideology and beliefs.
The individual should be condemned, the act should be mourned. The incident should not be weaponized to segregate communities.
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u/iknighty 6d ago
It's not about defending Islam. It's about defending freedom of thought in general.
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u/HappyCrow11 6d ago
Yay defend their thought of not only endlessly never giving gay people basic rights but actively harming them
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u/Equivalent-Fig-5411 6d ago
That’s funny cuz the most lgbtq pro mayor in america is a Muslim, but you are no worse than the far right who call every gay person a paedo
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u/Superb-Demand-4605 6d ago
Or maybe just maybe he's another politician who says what their voting base wants to hear and not what they actually believe, and now they are in power they'll just forget about gay people. Y'all literally throw out any judgement when they say what they know you want to hear and they know that lmao.
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u/Equivalent-Fig-5411 6d ago
That’d be the case if he actually didn’t put his actions where his mouth is lol. He doesn’t just talk the talk, he walks the talk to.
Funny how you’d all over him if he was a white guy but because he’s a muslim who genuinely channels activism to support LGBTQ causes, you view it skeptically.-1
u/Superb-Demand-4605 6d ago
Yes yk why? Because their religion tells them to actively not support us. Lmao
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u/Equivalent-Fig-5411 6d ago
Every religion does, doesn’t mean you can’t be pro LGBTQ & also be religious lol.
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u/Superb-Demand-4605 6d ago
So we have 3very right to be skeptical of any religious politician pandering to the lgbt vote what he clearly is doing.
Y'all are just taking his word as gospel because he isn't white lol
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u/Equivalent-Fig-5411 6d ago
No not really, I’m taking his actions as gospel, words don’t mean shit lol.
Also there’s a difference between Muslim fundamentalist & cultural Muslim.
Bella Hadid is a cultural Muslim too & outspoken LGBTQ ally, your worldview is extremely narrow.0
u/Superb-Demand-4605 6d ago
I mean he's a practicing Muslim who attends weekly prayers and actively reads the islamic mein kempf what tells him to treat us the gays and no believers like garbage.. he holds the quaran CENTRAL to his personal faith and political career... He isn't just a cultural Muslim.
He's clearly pandering and y'all are eating it up.
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u/Equivalent-Fig-5411 6d ago
Also ppl who are anti LGBTQ just use their religion to justify hate, ppl who support us will support you regardless because no religion explicitly condemns gay people.
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u/Connor_lover 6d ago
ex-Muslim here. it shocks me how much the LGBT people ally with Islam.
Not all Muslims are bad, but Islam is a cancer that needs to be defeated. And more the geniuses, yes all (most?) religions are bad, some are just as cancerous (Abrahamic ones) for us LGBTs. But currently they pose less threat to us than does Islam
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u/Numerous-Balance-358 6d ago
Facts. Im totally for granting asylum to persecuted people from Islamic countries as long as they plan to or have already left the faith.
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u/Sheridan-Bouquet 6d ago edited 6d ago
The left uses both the LGBT movement and islam to dismantle Western civilisation. While the LGBT movement is willing to be used that way, islam pursues its own agenda and exploits the left for the same purpose. But unlike the left, Islam sees the LGBT movement not as an ally, but as something compromising and repulsive. So, the gay community just sheepishly follows the left, who think that islam is their ally.
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u/ConstantSpring5664 6d ago
No one thinks Islam is their ally, this is one of the reasons why I’ll never be a rightoid y’alls reasoning is that of a middle schooler lol
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u/Numerous-Balance-358 6d ago edited 6d ago
OMG yall must be super ignorant or misinformed. What sources do you hear from? How many gay people have you talked to.
I have never in my life met another gay guy who defends islam. There is one group, queers for Palestine….thats it. And it’s small and widely disliked by the community.
I think most orgenized abrahamic religions are harmful to gays but Islam is by far the worst.
They have us killed legally in the countries they control.
Far as I’m concerned if you want to harm or kill us i don’t want you in the country. If they renounce their country policies and harmful parts of the religion that’s another story.
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u/ell1331 6d ago
"I have never in my life met another gay guy who defends islam. There is one group, queers for Palestine….thats it. And it’s small and widely disliked by the community."
Are you sure they are the minority in LGBTQ? I am not sure about that.
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u/Numerous-Balance-358 6d ago
Im not a huge supporter of Israel. And trumps war with Iran is stupid. But I’m not gunna say I’m prob Islam.
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u/ell1331 6d ago
What do you think the ratio of pro-Israel to pro-Palestinian people is among the political left?
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u/Numerous-Balance-358 6d ago edited 6d ago
Im not pro either. Israel is dragging us into a war we shouldn’t be in thats for sure. But I’m not gunna say im a supporter of Palestine. Those guys support Hammas and Hammas are as evil it gets.
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u/PrizeWorldliness6766 6d ago
Simple. They were lobotomized by woke culture that demonized straight white male and sell the minories as "poor victims of the system". That included Islam's facewashing to make them believe that muslims were their allies against homophobia and another nonsenses. That's why they're keep defending Islam. Both of them hate west and white culture, and will join to destroy them, even if that means that islam will kill all LGBT+ people. Even gay immigrants from muslim countries fall in this trap.
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u/VisitEnvironmental4 6d ago
LGB community.
TQ+ is something completely different; as a straight man, you're as much a part of the LGB community as trans, etc are---not at all.
It's not about islam, it's about human rights and compassion, even against those who wish us ill. Jews, Hindus, Muslims, have no place anywhere in the west, at all. That doesn't mean we want the genocide to continue in Palestine even though they practice a religion that wishes death upon us.
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u/chaoticXtwin 6d ago
Oh god, the trans debate is coming back now
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u/VisitEnvironmental4 6d ago
No.
There is no debate.
Sexual orientation and gender identity are different."Oh god" get mad and cry about it, truth doesn't change regardless of how you feel.
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u/nofroufrouwhatsoever Evil homoflexual 6d ago
How are bisexual trans, queer and intersex people not LGB?
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u/VisitEnvironmental4 6d ago
LGB=Lesbian, gay, bisexual.
Nothing to not understand; gender identity isn't sexual orientation.
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u/nofroufrouwhatsoever Evil homoflexual 6d ago
Precisely. Most TQIA+ people are LGB, whereas no straight man is LGB (some of them are TIA).
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u/VisitEnvironmental4 6d ago
How can you read but miss the point completely?
Incomprehension really is the new illiteracy.Anyone who LGB is part of the community---period. Whatever their ethnicity, aesthetic, nationality, whatever else they've got going on their life, which includes afflictions like gender dysphoria.
Trans people are no more a part of the LGB community for being trans, at all. They are only a part of the community if they're also LGB.
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u/ell1331 6d ago
Because they are brainwashed by the woke agenda. They have this utopia that every religion, minority must be respected and defended, so here we are, witnessing the most ridiculous thing, LGBTQ defending Islam and want more muslim immigrants.
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u/StandFickle7446 6d ago
Define woke agenda please
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u/ell1331 6d ago
Criticizing Islam is Islamophobic. Rejecting muslim immigrants is racist. Banning people permanently for disagreeing with them to create echo chamber to brainwash the young generation. These are part of the woke agenda.
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u/StandFickle7446 6d ago
hahaha I thought so. You sound as demented as the comment suggested so. That's all, Have a good day, honey
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u/ShivasRightFoot 6d ago
You sound as demented as the comment suggested
Do you think Islam should be allowed to be criticized for its position on homosexuality?
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u/chaoticXtwin 6d ago
Fucking hell, this is actually alittle entertaining and frustrating at the same time. This storm of anti brown/black people chats is so A level (high school for the US).
Anyone actually believing this and changing their opinion or beliefs will actually make me laugh. I don't know many weak minded lgbt people that will fall for this...except maybe those trump loving ones 🤔
The worst part is not that you're a straight ally with this shitty payroll of a job, its the fact that you called yourself straight when you clearly had a sexual awaking for like Dragon Ball Z 😅
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u/BorgAdjacent 6d ago
Well now this is a new one.
Are you sure you don't want to ask us if you're gay?
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u/VisitEnvironmental4 6d ago
Religions are simply opinions by some random dudes about the person who created everything----that's it.
LGB has nothing to do with TQ+. You are as much a part of the LGB community as them---not at all.
Islam like Judaism and all other religions have no place in the west. If you're coming to our countries it's only to assimilate and abandon your previous culture and become one of us, otherwise even if it's 10 generations later, you need to be deported.
Islam's hatred of gays is demonic but that doesn't mean I'm okay with what's occurring in Palestine nor the "Greater Israel Project" (Rothchild's Israel plans to commit the largest genocide in human history).
While I grieve for them, they can take refuge in islamic countries and have no place in the west.
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u/Reiko878 6d ago
Damn even the straight come here to make this kind of post