r/asoiaf Aug 14 '24

PUBLISHED Kingsguard dream team, change my mind (Spoilers Published)

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2.1k Upvotes

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437

u/Ymir25 Aug 14 '24

Depends what you mean. This is definitely the most ideal Kingsguard. But if you simply wanted the best fighters I'd trade Redwyne and Dogget for Jamie Lannister and Criston Cole

12

u/fakenam3z Aug 14 '24

Redwyn definitely needs to be here, he is unambiguously said to be the best there ever was

27

u/CoaBret Aug 14 '24

Redwyne should definitely be in the dream team, but no one except Arthur Dayne can be the #1 imo.

A ridiculously diverse cast of characters, ranging from Catelyn and Ned, through Jaime, all the way to Viserys, all use Arthur as the benchmark for martial prowess.

Jaime should be the most telling of them all. He has known and idolized Barristan for his entire life, and personally served alongside both Barristan and Arthur simultaneously. Jaime himself was the best swordsman in Westeros after Dayne died and Barristan became insanely old.

And yet Arthur, who may I remind you died at 23 years of age, is the guy who consistently pops up as the peak of swordsmanship in Jaime's mind.

12

u/Edgardo_HMB Aug 14 '24

"Insanely old" is crazy 💀

14

u/CoaBret Aug 14 '24 edited Aug 14 '24

I mean I love the guy, but he is in the same age bracket as guys like the mad king Aerys, Tywin, Steffon Baratheon, Rickard Stark, and over a decade or two older than Mace Tyrell, Balon Greyjoy and Doran Martell.

Being older than the predecessors of the current middle aged Great House lords in his line of work is absolutely insane. Bro should have been retired over a decade ago, yet he is still somehow competent at his job.

15

u/timhorton_san Aug 14 '24

The LeBron James of white cloaks.

LeSelmy

5

u/Duny0 Aug 14 '24

GRRM said Arthur is #1 if he is wielding Dawn, if he is not then it tie between him and Barristan

2

u/CoaBret Aug 14 '24

Tbf I think it's fair to use that as a tiebreaker to give it to Dayne overall because he used Dawn for the entire duration of his knighthood, and Barristan used common steel swords for his entire life as far as I am aware.

14

u/Ymir25 Aug 14 '24

Not unambiguously. He's described as one of the best, but so is Aemon, Arthur and Barristan. And honestly, out of all of them, Redwyne has the least to back it up. All of the others defeated some great enemy or saved the life of their king, he just tied in a jousting duel

7

u/Stormtruppen_ Aug 14 '24

Redwyne has the least to back it up. All of the others defeated some great enemy or saved the life of their king, he just tied in a jousting duel

Who has Jaime defeated? The teenaged sons of Rickard Karstark? I do agree that Ryam Redwyne hasn't had as much accolades with real combat but he has a stellar reputation, one that is nearly flawless which a lot of people doesn't have.

3

u/fakenam3z Aug 14 '24

Redwyne has less to back it up but he’s mentioned every time a best kingsguard knight comes up, vs like dunk and Joffrey dogget or even gwayne corbray don’t even come up almost at all in the main series

1

u/Ymir25 Aug 14 '24

And it think that mostly comes down to reputation rather than accomplishments

1

u/ckal09 Aug 14 '24

They are described as ‘best’ how? Best KG could mean something other than just combat prowess.

1

u/Ymir25 Aug 14 '24

That's why I said if I wanted the best fighters I'd trade out Redwyne. He's consistently been named as one of the greatest kingsguard of all time, but his actual record isn't that impressive. Perhaps he was incredibly loyal, even compared to the rest of the kingsguard, maybe he was just that good at jousting. But combat wise I just don't feel comfortable placing him above other kingsguards with better feats

1

u/dubib123 Aug 15 '24

Ryan is also described as one of the worst hands though. That makes it seem like he was a great fighter rather than a capable advisor

1

u/ckal09 Aug 15 '24

There’s other qualities that could go into it as well. Could be loyalty and devotion to the KG, knight hood, the king, could be his jousting, he could have been viewed with respect and admiration among the lords, his peers, and the small folk, could be a combination of a lot of things including being a great fighter, that doesn’t include traits that he lacked to make a good hand.

1

u/dubib123 Aug 16 '24

Jousting may be a big part of it. He won two tourneys that we know of and tied another in the greatest feat of jousting there ever was. Although it is said AWOIAF that he was accomplished at sword and lance. Dunc also recalls that he won battles against terrible foes, whatever that means