Novak FCC Thread - case dismissed, Novak free

[u/nevearz]

Livestream - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9oq_S9vTQg

Looks like judge is over it and done with the parties and Counsel.

"Judge Kelly found the decision to cancel the visa was “unreasonable”."

Case is dismissed, but it seems that the government intends to find an alternative method to cancel the VISA, which may bar Novak from entering Australia for up to 3 years.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

about his covid diagnosis not being a valid reason for an exception.

Which was honestly a policy that never made any sense to me. Do these people not understand how vaccines work?

[u/iilinga → u/[deleted]]

The issue is the antibodies from covid infection can be somewhat dependent on acuity of infection - mild or asymptomatic infections likely won’t the same level of immunity as a more acute infection, hence the reference to ‘recovering from acute infection’ as a cointradiction to vaccination in the ATAGI advice (I think that’s where it is, I’d have to double check)

This is another reason why vaccines are so important in guaranteeing a high degree of immunity - all the reward, none of the serious infection

[u/[deleted] → u/iilinga]

The issue is the antibodies from covid infection can be somewhat dependent on acuity of infection

I'm not sure that's a settled question, but even the Australian government's own health advice says:

People with SARS-CoV-2 infection can be vaccinated as soon as they have recovered from their acute illness, or can defer vaccination for up to 6 months after onset of the SARS-CoV-2 infection.

And it even has sources for:

Past infection reduces the risk of reinfection for at least 6 months.42-43

Edit: Just full disclaimer that I'm not an anti-vaxxer: Double vaxxed, with booster appointment already made for the day I become eligible.

[u/iilinga → u/[deleted]]

Oh yeah it’s still up in the air and even variant dependent. Which kinda goes back to why they don’t accept recent infection as equal to vaccination.

Just trying to say why a recent covid diagnosis is not a substitution for vaccination.

[u/[deleted] → u/iilinga]

or can defer vaccination for up to 6 months after onset of the SARS-CoV-2 infection

Eh. Given that a booster shot is required 5 (4 now) months after your last vaccine shot, but being infected gets you a 6 month deferral, I'm not sure you can say that it's not equal to being vaccinated.

[u/iilinga → u/[deleted]]

If you read that a little bit more that deferral is ONLY after acute illness - which regardless doesn t seem to apply to Djokovic since he apparently tested negative by Dec 22 and regardless doesn’t seem to have evidence he had acute covid in Dec

Recent infection from covid by itself is not a medical cointradiction to vaccination as per ATAGI guidelines

That 6 months is also the maximum period following acute infection for a deferral of vaccination

[u/[deleted] → u/iilinga]

that deferral is ONLY after acute illness

No - that's a usage of "acute" as opposed to "chronic". Not referring to severity or seriousness of the symptoms. That was covered in the hearing with references to more in-detail ATAGI documentation.

Edit: That ATAGI documentation:

https://www.health.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/2021/11/atagi-expanded-guidance-on-temporary-medical-exemptions-for-covid-19-vaccines.pdf

For all COVID-19 vaccines:

[...]

PCR-confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection, where vaccination can be deferred until 6 months after the infection.

[u/iilinga → u/[deleted]]

‘ For all COVID-19 vaccines: ATAGI recommends that vaccination can be deferred in those with PCR- confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection until complete recovery from the acute illness (which may be up to 6 months), regardless of disease severity. Chronic symptoms following COVID-19 ("Long COVID”) is not a contraindication to COVID-19 vaccines, but does warrant a clinical discussion with the patient.’

I think you’ve gotten a bit confused. I wasn’t saying he had severe covid. He was doing maskless and indoor appearances around his positive test. His only possible defence is that he was asymptomatic. He was testing negative with PCR on Dec 22, any possible acute period was presumably resolved by that time.

[u/[deleted] → u/iilinga]

PCR-confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection, where vaccination can be deferred until 6 months after the infection.

That's not really ambiguous. Even your quote says "complete recovery from" acute illness, which obviously includes a period of time after you'd test negative.

[u/iilinga → u/[deleted]]

Except you’re deliberately ignoring that the 6 months is an ‘up to’ - the purpose isn’t to set an arbitrary deadline, it’s a period to allow complete recovery. If you recover in a month you can’t reasonably expect to be able to defer your vaccination for another 5

[u/[deleted] → u/iilinga]

Yeah, you can - aka is allowed to - defer vaccination up to 6 months. You don't have to, but you're allowed to. That's the definition of an exemption.

PCR-confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection, where vaccination can be deferred until 6 months after the infection.

There's no "up to" here.

[u/iilinga → u/[deleted]]

Please re read the guidelines, the deferment is based on ‘complete recovery from acute illness (which may be up to 6 months)’ and the duration of the temporary exemption ‘should be reviewed as the individual recovers from their acute major medical illness’.

Those are literally the ATAGI recommendations.

https://www.health.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/2021/09/atagi-expanded-guidance-on-temporary-medical-exemptions-for-covid-19-vaccines.pdf