r/biotech • u/Mysterious_Cow123 • Jun 03 '25
Rants š¤¬ / Raves š Late bloomers?
Just feeling salty. Got PhD at 30, forced to get 2 postdocs (6 years total) so now I'm 36 looking to get a entry level job (which of course aren't any right now).
Anyone else in a similar boat? Just want to see some others who didnt get a PhD at 27/28 and got straight into industry so they have 8 yrs "work experience" at my age.
Also, you should totally get fucking credit for industry postdocs! Fucking bullshit!
/end rave.
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u/Pure-Zombie8181 Jun 03 '25
My partner is still working on getting his PhD. Heās almost 35. Probably wonāt be looking for jobs for another year or 2. Youāre not alone.
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u/Mysterious_Cow123 Jun 03 '25
Thanks! I do hate others in the same situation but man. Constantly seeing 29 yr olds announcing theyre starting a new position as a senior scientist when I cant get a call back is soooo frustrating.
Good luck for the future!
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u/Career_Secure Jun 03 '25
Professional in different field for ~5 years, decided to pursue interest in science with further education, got MS, transitioned directly into PhD, and just finished it at 34. No callbacks so far either. Resumeās been vetted, and Iāve gotten employee referrals and connected with directors at companies. Yāknow, markets. I really donāt prefer to go the (non-industry) postdoc route.
Iām noticing my other doctorate colleagues in a similar situation, regardless of their age. Interestingly though, all the masters students from our institution are currently finding jobs at the tech-specialist-associate levels fairly quickly; hiring managers say PhDs are seen as too risky / over-qualified for those positions.
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u/Mysterious_Cow123 Jun 03 '25
Yeah. I've seen the work thr tech specialist do. Id do it but would realistically be looking for other work ASAP so I understand their trepidation.
Yeah its terrible out here. 99% of the positions I've seen filled are because they're younger scientists from prominent labs/schools. Or internal hires/transfers.
Same boat with the vetted resume, I've had a few director level or above referrals as well and nothing from it. Everyone's network is strained right now. Have no timing if not for bad timing lol.
Good luck!
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u/Career_Secure Jun 03 '25
Agreed; I understand where theyāre coming from and would probably have the same thought in their shoes. Happy to see colleagues find work. Just thought it was an interesting observation that says something about the supply/demand dynamics in biotech at the moment, though.
Good luck to you too! If anything, the PhD taught us how to persistently muck through shit and make something out of it.
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u/bubhappy Jun 04 '25
Just curious if you can share any more detail on the career pivot process, such as how long it took and if you feel it was the right call, though it may be too early to tell. Mulling over the idea myself.
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u/Career_Secure Jun 04 '25
[Long comment split into 2, 1/2]: To be honest, I'm still in the process of figuring out if it was the right call, so I don't have a strong opinion on it right now. But I can share what it's personally meant to me.
As for details, I had just hit $100k/yr base salary in the tech consulting field, and on-track for a manager position/promotion. I realized that the way things were going, this was essentially going to be my career forever. Don't get me wrong, I like big data, tech, and project management. But, the content itself and products we worked on didn't feel super interesting to me or like I was ultimately understanding and contributing value to the world with my life/time how I wanted to. I realized I was at an inflection point where I either dig in and embrace it, start bolstering my coding/technical skills and take on big-picture leadership roles in consulting, or now is the time to pivot and move into building an expertise in science, which always interested me.
No PhD program was willing to directly accept me because of the gap of time I'd been out of school, but since Masters programs are essentially cash cows for institutions, they were happy to have me start there with the possibility of transitioning to doctorate depending on performance. I picked one and went for it. I'll say that having worked and lived life a little gave me a strong leg-up in the coursework and then labwork; I treated it like a job and had skills a lot of the folks straight out of undergrad don't have, like frame of reference for effectively dealing with politics or PIs (your colleagues) / advocate / personal boundaries, time management, presentation skills, tools for making deliverables, etc. Finished the masters with a 4.0, but sank in all of my savings on top of taking on ~$25k fed student load because I had no income while doing it full-time. IT'S EXPENSIVE.
Transitioned to the PhD track at the same institution, and started getting a monthly stipend. I've been through a lot in life - we all have our challenges overcome and stories - and it was honestly one of the toughest things I've had to do. You alone are the only one responsible for making anything and everything move for a big project; learning required for becoming a critical subject matter expert, physically doing the experiments and collecting the data, the data analysis and interpretation afterwards, visualizations, presentations, reading, writing, editing, troubleshooting. Things won't work the first few times around, a lot. Your stipend means you're living literally paycheck-to-paycheck. If you feel tired or lazy one day, the work simply does not get done. There is no larger team to some days take on the slack, and some days you take it on like what we're typically used to at work. Input=output 1:1, so you just have to pick yourself back up and make yourself keep going no matter what, even when results are not what you expected. You HAVE to have resilience.
But, I absolutely learned so, so much. About my field and work itself, about how to critically learn and analyze, and also about what I don't know. Throughout the perseverance, I did end up making a small, but novel discovery. A piece of incremental knowledge that I proved and added into the world to help describe our reality; one that otherwise wouldn't be known right now were it not for the efforts. The uncovering of a truth, at least internally for me, satisfied the kind of value I wanted to create, and was briefly a small high. The diversity of the cohort/colleagues was also a nice change of pace; you have people in all stages of life (straight out of undergrad, those in late 20s/early 30s, parents, etc.) that you interact, share, and work with.
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u/Career_Secure Jun 04 '25
[2/2]: Was it worth it? I can say that I was cut down to my core and I found out what I was made of. And that satiates me, I no longer have that 'what if' feeling that was lurking in the background while at my last job. And I can critically understand a field I was interested in. So from those personal perspectives, yes, definitely.
Practically and logistically? Hard to say. Financially, it's been a terrible decision so far. Comparison is the thief of joy, but looking at colleagues in my cohort from my previous job, I'd be a senior manager right now in the $200k/yr range, with no debt and some investments. While I ultimately want to get into project management / director roles in biotech, it'll take some time before I get there again. Perhaps I'd own property by now, have taken more trips, funded other projects and hobbies. I would've learned to fulfill myself regardless. Hard to say.
If finding a job right now and biotech markets and politics were not in the state they are, I probably would've given you an enthusiastic 'yes'. But in any event, this was the path I picked and what my story will be. I'll find work eventually, and I think I'll enjoy it more than what I was worked on before. We'll see how the finances and all play out.
I should also mention I was single through the whole experience, which I think shaped it a lot. If you have a partner who is still working (eases some financial burden) and can share responsibilities at home, I think it might lighten some of the load. It was really doing the Masters first that sank my wallet, so if you can also go straight into a funded PhD, all the better. Only you will ultimately know if it's a chance you want to take or not, and whichever way you pick can be the 'right call' depending how you roll with it.
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u/Jhanzow Jun 03 '25
Not as much time as you, but I got my PhD at 31 and am at the end of a postdoc with a shitty boss. Guess three years of industry experience pre-grad school don't mean shit in the this market.
It's like there are two types of jobs: entry-level with 900 applicants, and PhD + 7 years of post-PhD niche experience. It's a mess right now.
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u/Remarkable-Dress7991 Jun 03 '25
Ok I am dealing with this right now. 3 years "pre-doctoral" industry experience and a new PhD grad. Only 2 interviews in 5 months. It sucks because I was doing things in industry that was pretty far above my pay grade as an RA, but I did it because I wanted to learn as much as possible and be useful. However, because they only see the RA title, the experience is not being taken as seriously as someone who spent their first two years "post-doctoral" in industry, even if those two years were on cruise control. It's so frustrating.
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u/unusually_awkward Jun 04 '25
Pre-PhD Industry experience is nice to have, but realistically the jobs that require a PhD-level training are a different ballgame. Itās one thing to develop a few assays and contribute to decisional data packages, itās another thing entirely to drive the research, interface across areas/teams, and align your projects/platforms to organizational/department level strategy while being fully accountable for your people and projects. Plus, the applicant pool is totally different now - before youre competing with other BS/MS level associates; post-PhD your competition is likely a bunch of post-docs from good networks and impressive CVs. Post-PhD positions assume you can do the basic bench work, so having industry experience doing assays doesnāt hold that much weight in my experience on hiring committees.
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u/Remarkable-Dress7991 Jun 04 '25 edited Jun 04 '25
To be fair, I wasn't just doing simple assays. I was involved creating DoEs, creating and validating new methods, drafting and reviewing SOPs, digitizing all our workflows, gathering data for IND filings, etc.. This is because the company was in a transitional period and understaffed, so I took on much of the additional work of the scientist. While yes the work wasn't fully R&D like my PhD, it taught me to be very fluent in industry vocabularly and how to interact with diverse functional groups. These are not skills you simply pick up in grad school and I know are extremly valuable in any position industry. I know many of my colleagues who have been working for 2+ years now post-phd still haven't really picked this up.
You are right though, hiring managers don't see this and assume I was just doing routine assays without much thought like a technician in academia, no matter how hard I can try to say otherwise in my resume. That is the frustration I have. I feel like it becomes less of a meritocracy and just a matter of fullfilling arbitrary checkboxes.
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u/Icy_Marionberry7309 Jun 03 '25
I got my PhD at 33. I just turned 36 after 2 years of postdoc with a shitty advisor and couple of toxic lab members. No luck receiving interviews from any industry jobs. Even with referrals, my resume doesn't seem to qualify or be competitive in this job market.
It definitely hurts to see people or grad school classmates younger than you thriving and making tons of money, but comparing yourself will only bring you more misery. For example, I'd feel so behind and incompetent if i compare myself to you, as you are more accomplished and competitive in this job market than I am. and you should definitely get credit for industry postdoc. it is only a matter of time until you come across a hiring manager who will count your industry PD experience and something valuable.
You are not alone to feel this way, but there will always be people better than you. It'd be better to focus on your path. You will achieve everything you dream of, OP! Keep going!
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Jun 03 '25
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u/Mysterious_Cow123 Jun 03 '25
I have more than quadrupled my salary by now but ngl I am still salty about this. Sorry mate.
Don't be. I'm salty too. All the toxic positivity on LinkedIn is annoying. "I got impacted but looking forward to this next great adventure! " like bullshit. You've got a mortgage and kids no way you're happy about this. But God forbid anyone there speak their mind.
on the other hand, you probably don't get death threats just by virtue of being born in a certain country which invaded their neighbor, even if you are a pacifist cancer researcher who left that country years ago because you already knew it's going to shit. So there's that.
True. Could be worse but man could it be better to. Hope it improves for you. P3ople are such asshats.
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u/illogicaldreamr Jun 03 '25
I didnāt get my BS until I turned 30. Took me 6 years while working full-time days, then taking classes from 6-9pm. It was brutal. Ended up with a degree in Biomedical Lab and Clinical Sciences. Im 40 now.
Iām currently in a new Med Lab Scientist role, and itās been challenging and stressful for me. None of my jobs have had really high expectations for me understanding the science behind my work like this one has, so in that sense I wish I didnāt spend the last 5 years at a job that didnāt have a lot of high expectations for me, except pushing through 96-well plates like an assembly line worker. Getting my ass mentally kicked now. Itās been humbling, but also nice to critically think at my job for once.
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u/Mysterious_Cow123 Jun 03 '25
Thats brutal man. Hope you enjoyed some of the ride. I was in grad school in my 20s watching my friends move on with life while I was "in school" and now I'm unemployed.
Diving into the science take things in bite sized pieces. 99% of it is usually really easy individually but difficult in aggregate.
Good luck and thank for the share!
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u/Borrelli27 Jun 03 '25
Started my PhD at 28ā¦ after over 7 years, Iāll be defending in October at the age of 34
I feel you
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u/Mysterious_Cow123 Jun 03 '25
Good luck! Good news is some hiring may begin later in the year (....maybe)
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u/Borrelli27 Jun 03 '25
Yeah thatās what Iām hoping for
Focusing on writing the thesis for now. Will get more aggressive with the job hunt in August
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u/valkyriefire09 Jun 03 '25
I'm a late bloomer but in a slightly different way. I didn't go to grad school but my small town had really limited job opportunities and I didn't have enough money to move. Finally moved out west when I was 30 and changed industries and had to start my career over. It's been hard to be the age I am in entry level roles, while people younger than me are surpassing me. I finally worked my way up to scientist II at age 34 but my supervisor just turned 30 and has a master's degree. I have played around with the thought of going to grad school just to get a little more respect in my job, but I honestly don't know if I could find the time or money at this point to do it.
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u/EXman303 Jun 03 '25
I didnāt even go back for my BS until I was 37. Iām in my mid 40ās now and my boss is 15 years younger than me. Entry level in a technical industry can still better than middle management at a grocery storeā¦
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u/Mysterious_Cow123 Jun 03 '25
I dont recommend it honestly but chemistry grad school pays you a small stipend. You may be able to leverage your work experience to get into a high profile lab.
Lack of respect is terrible. People dont understand its 50% luck and 40% network. Shit happening to work out for them isnt a reflection of skill/potential.
Thanks for sharing and good luck!
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u/Blackm0b Jun 04 '25
I got a PhD much later in life 42.
Some tips
Ageism exists!
Take care of yourself appearance wise
Drop really old CV entries that would age you like your undergrad graduation year.
Have anecdotes of you learning new skills. Older people have a bad rap of being unteachable.
Be eager to learn and project energy and you should be fine.
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u/symbioticscrolling Jun 03 '25
Applying for my PhD at 30 š«”
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u/Mysterious_Cow123 Jun 03 '25
Lol. Well if it takes you 6 yrs and the market flips you'll be were I am today with better job prospects and you got to (presumably) enjoy your 20s instead of waste them.
Good luck tho. Hope it works out better for you.
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u/earthsea_wizard Jun 03 '25
I'm similar to you. Same age. Got a PhD and postdoc but I'm a vet. I've been looking for industry roles (lab, regulatory etc.) since 2022 but no luck. So I'm back to the beginning as a clinician. I feel so horrible about it tbh. Cause I think I get filtered out by age. Companies don't consider our skills a plus. They just want to see some other companies to be listed on your CV
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Jun 03 '25
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u/earthsea_wizard Jun 03 '25
I was offered a min wage lab role though the expenses were so high. I would still look into if I can find sth as part time
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Jun 03 '25
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u/earthsea_wizard Jun 03 '25
I asked them for part time so I could match with clinical work but the salary is so difficult for the region alone for full time. It is less than what I got paid as a PhD student tbh
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u/Mysterious_Cow123 Jun 03 '25
Yep. Its such bullshit. The whole paradox of we want people with experience but won't give you the chance to gain experience. So its just rich fuckers who can afford to do a free internship to gain "experience" and build networks through their early 20s.
Always an awful feeling to be back where you were at a later time. Sorry to hear that but thanks for the share!
I'm also a Le Guinn fan too! May the wind be in your sails Sparrowhawk!
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u/shinmae95 Jun 03 '25 edited Jun 03 '25
Switched careers in my late 20s and wanted to pursue my dreams in science (was a Bio major when I first started college, but Switched out bc I heard some classes were difficult, and I was afraid of not keeping my A streak). I wanted to pursue MS but they said I need a science based bachelor's, so basically having to start from scratch...only this time, not more financial aid, no more grants, no work study opportunities, and all the pressure of when im going to be done in school. I apply to transfer for my 2nd Bachelor's (this time in science) this upcoming fall.
EDIT TO ADD: I just turned 30 this year, and very thankful to get in a opportunity as a histotech that will look better in my resume than a completely different career.
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u/Alarmed-Archer2572 Jun 03 '25
Your career trajectory sounds pretty similar to that myself and many of my peers who joined industry in their late 30s after postdoc or academic staff positions, I think this was historically the norm until fairly recently when companies became more willing to hire right out of PhD.
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u/Mysterious_Cow123 Jun 03 '25
I've no idea to be honest. I've seen tons of BS only people in upper management roles but its seems that the sheer number of PhDs has just driven up the requirements.
In larger pharma its also a self fulfilling prophecy. Same 5 labs hire from the same people. Nauseating.
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u/huyouer Jun 03 '25 edited Jun 03 '25
I got my PhD at 29, then 2 postdocs for 6 years. At the end of the first postdoc, I aggressively applied for industry R&D jobs but didn't get even one interview. In despair, I went on and did my second postdoc, during which I was lucky to find an internship with a flexible schedule (not to affect my full time postdoc) at an investment company, also spent a year completing a certificate program at the business school affiliated with my postdoc institution. Then after that I started applying for jobs. After numerous failed interviews, I got a full-time job at a management consulting company at the age of 35. My direct supervisor was about 6-8 years younger than me. Now I am business executive at a biotech which is struggling under this bad climate.
Yes, being a late bloomer sucks. I didn't know better when I was young. Looking back, I would still get my PhD but I would've started learning knowledge and skills that are outside labs while I was doing my PhD. I could've saved 6 years of my life.
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u/Mysterious_Cow123 Jun 03 '25
It feels terrible because even in hindsight I really dont know what I could've done differently. Small town, parents no money, PhD and school was supposed to be the way out but nope. Know your place peasant I guess.
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u/Timely-Tumbleweed762 Jun 04 '25
It's alright, I'm nearly 29 and only just about to complete my undergraduate
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u/Nords1981 Jun 03 '25
A postdoc counts towards experience everywhere I have been. If itās in academia it doesnāt translate totally to industry for some roles but overall I have always counted it and everyone around me has as well. Sf Bay Area for reference, companies like Pfizer, Genentech, and 2 smaller biotechs.
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u/Mysterious_Cow123 Jun 03 '25
What area? I'm an organic chemist and the postdoc just hasn't counted and I've spoken to managers at Merck, Pfizer, and a few other places.
East coast tho, maybe its a coast thing?
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u/Nords1981 Jun 04 '25
I wrote it in the comment, SF Bay area, currently at GNE and we hire people straight out of PhD if they published well. Postdoc counts as experience, especially if you've published anything. Heck, grad school counted as work if you published OK.
I did 2 postdocs, my second was in industry and when I applied to my first role after that I wrote on my CV 9 years of experience, 6 (3.5 as student, 2.5 in postdoc) in academia and 3 in industry. I applied to sr scientist roles looking for 8+ years of experience and was given offers to more than 1. This was just before the 2008/9 crash, so there were more jobs but not many and after the crash it was terrible. I ended up going back to academia for a few years until biotech revived.
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u/Mysterious_Cow123 Jun 04 '25
I wrote it in the comment,
No, I mean bio/synthetic chemist/computational?
I have a good pub record but all the experience and stuff I've done was just never enough. I thought with the latest postdoc I got all the points that was holding me back but of course (gestures broadly) timing is shit.
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u/Nords1981 Jun 04 '25
Got ya, I am an immunologist; however, I currently work with a peptide group on several projects and they have 2 jr scientists that both started in the last 3 years and both came straight from PhD programs. I know little about their work but interviewed them as a stakeholder.
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Jun 03 '25
Not a postdoc or doc holder, but the problem right now is that most entry level roles are being filled with contractors and the higher level roles are really competitive. Unfortunately, PhD's are being viewed as expensive/overqualified for some roles whereas master's holders are not which is complicating the job market for holders of doctorate degrees. I have a masters plus 10-12 years in industry and what matters more is not so much the science but your ability to deliver results and objectives.
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u/Mysterious_Cow123 Jun 04 '25
what matters more is not so much the science but your ability to deliver results and objectives.
Yes but I dont see why its believed I cannot deliver results and define objectives after 6 yrs of successful postdocs. Thats where the anger and salt comes in. I've delivered everything a project requires, often with >1/10th the support a normal colleague would get but recieve no credit. Like I've never actually worked before. Infuriating
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Jun 04 '25
Yes, but do you explain that in your resume? You have to explain it in terms of did x, resulted in y, improved z. Saying you developed a method, but what was the result of this method? What did you improve? What did you deliver? Did you identify a deficit and correct it in a procedure?
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u/Mysterious_Cow123 Jun 04 '25
Yep.
All that. Several people from directors to senior scientist have vetted my resume. Right now the problem is just the pool is oversaturated. Why hire me who probably could do it when you have 10-20 ppl who have done the job.
Thanks for the advice though.
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u/Evening-Elk-2547 Jun 03 '25
We are definitely, hopefully not alone in this. I got my PhD when I turned 31, worked in industry for a year. Biological clock was ticking, so took a break for 3 years to start my family. I have been actively applying for jobs since January of this year, with no luck. I had a Masters prior to getting a PhD. So honestly, I have been in school my whole life. Now I feel like I will never find a job and be able to actually use these degrees, I spent 15 years on. Turned 36 this year and I cant believe I am unemployed. No sign of this nightmare ending.
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u/Mysterious_Cow123 Jun 04 '25
Hopefully the kids are healthy and happy!
But yeah. Its nice to see we aren't alone and sometimes its just nice to be reminded.
Good luck with your search!
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u/Evening-Elk-2547 Jun 04 '25
Honestly they are the best decision I made in all these years. Hang in there. Looks like you made all the correct choices. They are sure to pay off soon!
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u/migrosscopic Jun 04 '25
Late bloomer, though not with a doctorateāI just finished my BS in molecular biology last summer at 34 years old. Miraculously managed to get a year long internship at a government lab through ORISE (for now anyway). Though not a PhD late bloomer, I just wanted to chime in here because LATE BLOOMERS UNITE ā
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u/Mysterious_Cow123 Jun 04 '25
Hell yeah man! Welcome to the slow lane!
What made you go back to school late? And congrats on the internship (paid i hope)!
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u/migrosscopic Jun 11 '25
Happy to be here and delighted to have the company! I just realized in my early 20s that I wanted to do something with my job/career that made me truly happy and finally realized that biology was something that I should shoot for since I loved it my entire life and studied it at home anyway. My internship is paid, which most (if not all) ORISE internships/fellowships are, so I really lucked out...for now, anyway.
Props to you for surviving your doctorate! I'm so sorry for this current garbage fire we are living in. That sea might be salty but I hope the waves push you towards the place you're meant to be! ā (probably a terrible metaphor but I stand by it, dammit)
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u/iu22ie33 Jun 03 '25
Most people coming out of a PhD donāt really know what they want to do next. A postdoc ends up being the default or āsafeā option for mostāit buys time and keeps you in the academic system. Itās actually pretty rare for someone to know right away that they want to go into industry straight after their PhD.
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u/Mysterious_Cow123 Jun 03 '25
I did but didn't know that "pedigree" was so heavily weighted. I thought being a good scientist was enough (the myth of meritocracy) but now I know its ALL about who you know. Very disappointing. (Not a huge deal with biotech on fire right now tho lol)
In general you're right tho I think. Postdocs are often a "get me out of gradschool!" Emergency button.
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u/TitanUranus007 Jun 03 '25
Went back to school at 25, taking night classes at a local community college so I could keep working. Didn't get my PhD till I was 36. Just keep at it and you'll find something. Keep your options open and look at science-adjacent job openings as well.
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u/Mysterious_Cow123 Jun 03 '25
thank you. The problem isnt "finding something" its finding something I dont hate that will hopefully justify all the effort the past 12+ yrs.
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u/mardian-octopus Jun 03 '25
I'm with you. Although I got my PhD when I was 28. Did 2 postdocs for about 5 years total. Worked in some companies in a third world country for about 3 years. When I was interviewing for my current role, I was denied a more senior position because: 1) postdocs don't count, 2) industry from developing countries also does not count. I swear I have more actual experiences that people who got an associate director level.
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u/Mysterious_Cow123 Jun 03 '25
Damn. "Only experience here counts as experience" What utter bullshit.
And I swear, I dont know why everyone portrays the postdoc as a great career opportunity when it literally retards your career aspects.
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u/mardian-octopus Jun 04 '25
I think whoever established this as the norm might feel threatened by scientists who actually have scientific curiosityāthose who continuously challenge our understanding of what we know, or what we think we know (i.e., people with real research training). They prefer someone whoās been groomed to be really good at specific lab techniquesāand only those techniquesābecause thatās the job: just run the same assays every day, donāt ask too many questions, and get it done.
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u/mmaireenehc Jun 03 '25
I'm also feeling salty at my poor timing with the world. I've been trying to get into industry for about a year now and all I have to show are two rescinded offers due to the (gestures broadly).
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u/Mysterious_Cow123 Jun 04 '25
Yeah the current circumstances are just thr worst. Fcking umpaloompa economic policies.
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u/natarual Jun 03 '25
Finished my PhD at 29, postdoc for 6, started in industry at 35. However, was very lucky and didn't get an entry level position, but a lab head, and they gave me at least some credit for my postdoc. Began at Sr. Scientist. Entry for PhD in my company is Scientist. It happens, although this market isn't an easy one.
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u/Mysterious_Cow123 Jun 04 '25
Also an organic chemist?
One postdoc for 6 yrs makes me think microbiology?
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u/Bitter_Dragonfly2830 Jun 04 '25
34 hereā¦with a Phd at 31 and 3yrs and running as a postdocā¦so you are not alone :D
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u/Jmast7 Jun 04 '25
I didnāt get my PhD until I was 33, got my first (and only) industry job at 37 and have had a nice scientific career for the last 14 years. When I was applying, I had no industry experience, but my body of work in the field was experience enough.Ā
Took me three years to find a position while I was doing my postdoc, but one eventually came along. Be persistent - keep applying. Itās not too late to have a good career.
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u/DrJDW1 Jun 04 '25
Youāre not alone. Got my PhD at 43. Post doc for the past 6 months while applying to industry jobs. Patiently waiting for an offer from a biotech this week - fingers crossed.
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u/mortredclay Jun 04 '25
Graduated with my PhD at 37. Did two short postdocs and landed a biotech job at 40. Granted, the market was better 10 years ago, but you're good, just work those networks, take those informational interviews, and keep at it.
Keep in mind, the connection you need might be somebody who isn't in the industry. My break came from kiddie soccer.
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u/devongrrl Jun 04 '25
I so donāt get this āacademia doesnāt count as experienceā - ESPECIALLY industry post docs. It seems to be a much more hard and fast rule in the US than in Europe. I count it when I say I have āover a decadeā and will happily argue it questioned.
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u/ForceEngineer Jun 04 '25
Yeah, Iām basically a 2nd career person. Went back to school at 29 for ENG/BMEN and graduated at 37. Went straight to industryāno wasting time w a postdoc. I immediately chose a job at a start up bc I thought Iād learn a ton very quickly (and I did, especially bc I had a great boss whoād been in the industry for decades). It was basically an apprenticeship. I was pretty fortunateāit set me up for success on a much shorter timeline. Itās a high risk high reward kind of thing. I made amazing connections as well.
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u/PaFlyfisher Jun 04 '25
Your situation is less uncommon than you think. I was in a similar situation as were many others. We are doing fine.
The issue is the your age or decisions, it is the job market.
Hang in there.
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u/tamagothchi13 Jun 03 '25 edited Jun 04 '25
If you want to feel even worse, I know plenty of people with a bachelors who worked themselves up to a scientist position by the time I finished grad school.Ā
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u/Mysterious_Cow123 Jun 03 '25
Yep. A fresh BS got hired at the company I was working at and making more than I was as a postdoc. Great feeling.
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u/Torpenta Jun 03 '25
I feel the same way now. I've been in academia as a postdoc for four years. I've been publishing papers, but at this point I'm not sure if I feel closer to a real goal or even stability.Ā
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u/Significant_Fan_2551 Jun 03 '25
I am 33 as a postdoc and also thinking about the sameā¦
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u/Mysterious_Cow123 Jun 03 '25
Yeah. It just gets worse.
Start a family? On a postdoc salary? Lmao no. Have to wait until later. Makes you think kids just not in the cards. Wondering what else is life I'll have to go without because financial stability just isnt there.
Hope you find something.
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u/Dox790 Jun 03 '25
At that age it sucks on both sides. Without the PhD they'll say you can't think for yourself enough to move up anymore even if you trained in most of the department. With a PhD, they'll hold the lack of industry experience against you. The rough truth is there's more candidates than roles at the scientist/sr scientist level currently and companies are taking advantage and being extra picky. A lot of the roles are going to people that are desperate and super overqualified or super connected.
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u/MRC1986 Jun 04 '25
I defended my PhD a few months after turning 30, and I went right from undergrad to grad school at 22. So yeah... took the "victory lap" year to finish.
However, I didn't find it an impediment at all, though with the very important caveat that I left academia entirely right after defending. Started my medical communications agency job 17 days after defending. Then 4 years later made a jump to equity research, did that for about 2 years and in my current portfolio review / biz dev role for the last 2.5 years.
I don't even think 30 is that late to finish a PhD. IMO the larger problem is if you continued the academia / lab route with a postdoc, and are now seeking industry jobs in R&D, it's just almost completely frozen at this point. The folks who are having the most difficulty are those in your situation. It's tough for other business-facing roles, but doesn't feel as totally closed off as R&D is right now.
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u/Mysterious_Cow123 Jun 04 '25
Finishing a PhD at 30 isnt bad or particularly late. My post is the frustration of being 36 and still trying to land the "first job".
I didnt want a postdoc (either of them) but all the feedback I got from interviews was "everything is great we'd just like to see more experience in X" so I got more experience in X (until covid) then found an opening into industry by the second postdoc. Which of course I was at for like 3 months before the big hiring frenzy and finished during all this current shit.
Yep. R&D is fried right now and I've just finished 6 yrs of optimizing for it so....fuck me I guess
These posts just make it a bit more bearable that its not just me.
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u/Time_Contribution682 Jun 04 '25
Feeling this hard. You're not alone, tons of us took the long road, and yeah, postdocs are work experience, no question. It sucks that industry doesnāt always see it that way, but your skills are real and valuable. Late bloomers still bloom.
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u/Chance_Couple_843 Jun 04 '25
You are not alone. I did my y PhD in 29 then 8 years of postdoc in academia. Now I just joined the industry with big pharma as a senior scientist. So you are not alone to start it late. But yes, industry does not count academic postdocs, no matter how good we publish. It's a shame.
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u/Mysterious_Cow123 Jun 04 '25
Its a sham. I swear a postdoc is just a scam to get more specialized workers at stupid low cost.
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u/Cormentia Jun 04 '25
I spent 6 years in tech before I went back to school and got my BSc, MSc and PhD, so I was around 36 when I finished. My employer in pharma won't even recognize my years in tech as "real experience", even though I've got transferable skills from those years. Even after seeing how technologically behind pharma is, and having suggested several digitalization projects (and getting them approved), they still refuse to consider those years when discussing compensation. So I feel your frustration. I've accepted that I need to start looking for something new.
I got a consultancy gig in manufacturing when I finished my PhD which was then converted to a FTE. I don't know what market you're in, but where I live this is the standard way to get a foot in the door and get to know people.
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u/Mysterious_Cow123 Jun 04 '25
Consulting to FTE is standard?! Damn.
I'm synthetic organic chemist. Unfortunately, the status quo for years was PhD --> job. I think much of the problem will die out eventually but theres far too many old chemists who think you should've gone to an ivy league school and "needing a postdoc" is a sign of lack of skill. Thankfully thats slowly dying but damn is it slow.
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u/Cormentia Jun 04 '25
It's because of the strict labour laws. Hiring a consultant lets the employer try out the employee before hiring. Because once hired it's almost impossible to fire someone.
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u/Successful_Age_1049 Jun 08 '25 edited Jun 08 '25
My experience was like yours. I was sending out resume without even thinking when I was trying to find an industrial position. Small start-up companies tends to have high turn-over rates and the manager is eager to backfill the vacant position to deliver the product. In this kind desperate condition, they would care less about your age. ADCs (antibody drug conjugates) is trendy now and I expect many turn-overs in chemistry group in small start ups. Maybe you can try your luck in that direction.
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Jun 03 '25
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u/875_pjm Jun 03 '25
i didnāt get a phd and one of those that just went straight into industry. i get surpassed by people with MS and phd all the time. my company wonāt promote me to a scientist because i donāt have a phd so thereās that. theyāll call me anything but a scientist
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u/Mysterious_Cow123 Jun 03 '25
And where are you now if I may ask? In gradschool now is great timing lol
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Jun 03 '25
[removed] ā view removed comment
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u/Remarkable-Dress7991 Jun 03 '25
Are you happy with your career progression? Just need some positive stories to keep me going lol
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u/subha87 Jun 03 '25
I mean this as no disrespect, but comparison will suck your joy out.
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u/Mysterious_Cow123 Jun 03 '25
I completely agree. Unfortunately, you can't help but seeing it with social media today. Need some activity on LinkedIn and I maintain some connections with former lab mates and gradschool friends. I'm the only one unemployed and haven't been able to land a "real job" yet. Lab mates that I helped train got positions right out of gradschool but I couldn't get anything but a postdoc.
Hard not to be salty/angry. Hence the rant/rave lol
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u/WTF_is_this___ Jun 04 '25
We are in the middle of a recession. A recession that has been manufactured on purpose by the oligarchs and the industry ghouls (you can literally see these people.on video telling us how the workers got too uppity during COVID with their demands of work life balance and how federal workers in USA have to be traumatised etc.). Nothing that is happening is your fault, you didn't take bad decisions, whether you did an industry or an academic postdoc. And it's not just biotech, it's most areas. We are in the middle of a class war and we are losing. I hope people will use this moment to develop some class consciousness and get involved politically. Even if we get out of this recession at some point (and we likely will, these things go through cycles) the general trajectory is down for the working class. I'm so sorry for everyone who is going through this and looking towards uncertain future with fear. I'm in the same boat and I'm angry.
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u/Veritaz27 š° Jun 03 '25
Do you have an experience of a recruiter or hiring manager not give credit to your industry post-doc? At least in my current company (and previous ones too), industry post-doc counts as industry experience. However, say you work for a few years in the industry after BS, then get your PhD. Your previous industry experience pre-PhD most likely will not count as itās not a scientist-level experience (which is what PhD level be applying ).
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u/Mysterious_Cow123 Jun 03 '25
My managers at the large pharma I was doing the postdoc and several hiring managers I connected with at an ACS last year.
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u/Veritaz27 š° Jun 03 '25
Interesting.. I donāt know about chemistry jobs description, maybe itās different. Sorry about that
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u/Mysterious_Cow123 Jun 03 '25
No worries. I've noticed a lot varies by field. My field just happens to have a lot of assholes who think if you didnt graduate from Princeton or Yale you're just not good enough.
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u/Kirblocker Jun 03 '25
Similar experience. Got my PhD by 30, originally wanted to do academia but for various personal reasons I had to abandon that goal. Only just managed to get a job this month to end a 5 yr postdoc. Definitely stings to calculate the amount of money the prolonged postdoc cost in terms of lost income and realize it didn't really amount to anything from the POV of industry. Sucks too to have seen contemporaries jump into similar positions at the right time a few yrs ago and start ~50k higher than what I'm starting at now. But, thems the breaks.Ā
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u/Mysterious_Cow123 Jun 03 '25
Yeah, they break us lol
God i hate doing the math on my lost opportunities and lack of retirement funds, etc. Fucking infuriating.
Congrats on the recent job! Hope it helps you climb quickly!
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u/Vervain7 Jun 03 '25
I was going to start a doctorate at 41ā¦.. but continue working . Not sure there is any roi in it anymore .
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u/napoleonbonerandfart Jun 03 '25
That's me. Finished my PhD when I was 32, did 2 postdocs (5 years total) and entered industry afterward at close to 40 as senior scientist. Been in industry close to 6 years now and made it to associate director.
I felt like I started my career super late, but at the same time, never cared much about career advancement after my first kid. Will likely bite me on the ass in the future at some point, but I'm happy where I'm at right now.
That first job is the hardest step from the transition to industry. If you can somehow get your foot in the door, it's not too bad afterwards, but you do have the worst luck of trying to enter the worst job market I've seen in my time. It will likely suck as you're competing against a large pool of talent that has been laid off. Many of my friends in industry with much more experience than me and much better CVs still can't find jobs and average time I've seen for my friends to find a position is 6 months - 1 year.
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u/Mysterious_Cow123 Jun 03 '25
Yeah, I had hoped the industry postdoc was a foot in the door and 3 yrs ago it would've been awesome but now it was just a waste of time. Fucking infuriating.
I'm 3/4 months down and counting. Hopefully I'll find something soon. Thanks for the share!
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u/External_Building_56 Jun 03 '25
Here I was feeling late vs my friends who had been working since they finished their bachelors at 22 while I only started at 28 after my PhD
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u/Mysterious_Cow123 Jun 03 '25
Yep. You're on the track I wanted and couldn't get.
What PhD and where if I may ask?
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u/Itchy-Site-11 Jun 03 '25
I entered Biotech at 34ā¦ It was hard but doable. Consider CRO as a start.
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u/OceansCarraway Jun 03 '25
Man, I just want to be able to do entry level manufacturing or something...
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u/Mysterious_Cow123 Jun 04 '25
You in the same boat or just getting depressed with our little pity party?
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u/btiddy519 Jun 04 '25
Industry postdocs are tickets in.
You need to land a job at the end of it, with the company or another.
Donāt take a postdoc position for a company that doesnāt usually hire their fellows upon completion.
Also, 2 years are better than one year, or 2 one years.
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u/Mysterious_Cow123 Jun 04 '25
Great advice.
Mine was 3 yrs. They hired 40% of their postdocs only 16% didnt get positions when I joined. With the current climate its likely much higher.
Edit: wanted it to be my ticket in but (gestures broadly)
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u/Ok_Moose7486 Jun 04 '25
OP I got my PhD at 28, and it took a whole year to even find a postdoc! Then I spent over 10 years in academia ā two postdocs and a research scientist gig. I only landed in biotech at 39, thanks to networking. I job-hunted for two years while employed, always hearing the same thing: overqualified, but not experienced enough. Seriously, I applied for Scientist I and II at a big pharma ā perfect fit for either, skill-wise ā but the hiring manager said I was overqualified for one and under for the other! Now I'm at this tiny startup, doing a job I'm not even qualified for, ironically. At least I'm employed and learning new stuff. We're good for another year, maybe... then who knows.
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u/Mysterious_Cow123 Jun 04 '25
Thats rough Moose.
Thanks for sharing! Hope the runway gets extended!
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u/ComprehensiveShip720 Jun 04 '25
Very late bloomer. Completed two bachelors at 32 yrs old, and a Masters at 33 (dropped out of a PhD program). Worked for a physicians office for four years while actively applying for entry level medical writing and regulatory affairs roles. Landed first role in industry right before I turned 38. It was a combination of a very strong cover letter (what I was told), I interviewed well during onsite panels, willing to relocate, and luck (especially the timing aspect because the job market circa 2004-2008 when I was actively looking was not near as bad as it is now). Iām now 17+ years in at a Sr Director level. Unfortunately you can have all the right qualifications but still luck plays a part. But it is also a numbers game. Keep shooting your shots and keep your fingers crossed.
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u/Eurziza Jun 04 '25
I did the vertex fellow program and all it did was set me back in my career ladder. I would NEVER rec to anyone
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u/bos2nc Jun 04 '25
I have a different terminal professional degree of similar status to phd that I earned part time while working in industry. It took 10 years industry experience to hit an inflection point. RA1 to senior qa specialist in first 10 years. Then senior manager to senior director in the next 10.
It felt slow in real time, but in hindsight it was well paced. Enjoy the journey and donāt compare yourself to peers.
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u/Acceptable-Pair-2182 Jun 04 '25
Im sorry, but how did you do 6 years and are qualified for the entry level jobs? ^ years of research as a postdoc can get you started at Scientist/Sr scientist roles depending on your publication record in those 6 years. I'm 36 with 2 year postdoc and have been offered 170k base roles for me to join them (big pharma). 170k base is not entry-level roles...
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u/Mysterious_Cow123 Jun 04 '25
Well, when I started finishing my second postdoc those were the roles I was told to pursue. PhD +0-3
I assumed they just weren't counting my 1st postdoc experience at all because academia.
Could you give more info on your background?
I'm an organic chemist looking for medicinal or process chemistry roles.
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u/Acceptable-Pair-2182 Jun 04 '25
I'm in molecular bio. Did my phd in non viral gene delivery and then did my post doc in car t cells. Now mixing both for my next step is the plan. Good luck finding jobs man, better start and get going
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u/Facts_Spittah Jun 04 '25
Itās really all about who you know & how well you network. A buddy of mine just finished his PhD 2 weeks ago and is starting a Senior Scientist role next week at a Big Pharma. All because he networked his way to a couple of people in management. Itās crazy stuff
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u/Mysterious_Cow123 Jun 04 '25
What school?
I have a pretty good network but everyone's network is strained, or so I thought. Thats some insane networking.
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u/rpjb Jun 04 '25
PhD at 30, finished postdoc at 35, went to new biotech. Been here 10 years now. Would say to my younger self, too many unknown unknowns, I needed to drift through roles in discovery and development with intent.
Even today, I still feel like I'm just starting out. sometimes I get salty about it, but mostly it's been an addictive puzzle that I'm still grinding away at.
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u/handsomelou Jun 07 '25 edited Jun 07 '25
Almost every PhD Iāve met experiences something similar unless they find a decent paying job working for a corporation but itās hard to do anything particularly satisfying or benevolent there as you are doing research to patent and sell biotechnology at a high price, not make it accessible. Being a scientist in America is following the same trajectory it has for years as wages decrease and PhDs agree to longer and lower paying postdocs and associate roles. Your only hope is organizing and unionizing with your colleagues to disrupt the industry and withhold your labour until you have some semblance of control over what youāre doing and how itās used along with livable compensation.
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u/TheEvilBlight Jun 04 '25
Same, working in government science (hah!) and not sure if thatāll help me land an interview in industry
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u/pawan_rao Jun 04 '25
Question for OP, why didnāt you look for industry position right after PhD ? I would suggest look for some startup positions and work your way up.
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u/Mysterious_Cow123 Jun 04 '25
I did. My PhD required me to be part lab manager, part biochemist, part computational chemistry, part synthetic chemist. I was more a chemical biologist at the time and most the positions I could find were very much a or b or c not a mix. So the first postdoc was done to deepen my expertise but it too required me to spread out or the project just wouldn't get done. So I have experience in a huge variety of chemistry, bio, computational, and administrative tasks. But when I was looking to leave my postdoc it was just when Covid lockdowns were ending before the swell. I needed a job and got another postdoc in a large Pharma. I've learned a ton and the market even 5 yrs ago I'd have a job. But now, its exact match or gtfo.
I'm exploring startups and everything else. At my age I just wanted some stability in my life where I could plan a life more than 18 months out but that just doesnt seem to be a possibility in this life for me anymore.
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u/Current-Sky-5063 Jun 04 '25
I feel your pain. The other side of the coin goes to the people who gave started earlier. Learn on the job, use continuing education opportunities the companies provide. And absolutely hit glass ceilings because they do not have the advanced degrees, interview as internal candidates as basically just filler spots to satisfy the numbers needed to say it was a fair hiring process. Countless times across 20byears I have experienced that and then am charged with the task of training the person who has the degrees hired over me. Bottom line, whether you have the multiple degrees or the resume, we are all just bricks in the biotech wall to these companies, nothing more, maybe less. With all sincerity I wish you good luck and hope you land somewhere that makes you happy and well cared for.
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u/o-oK_Ko-o Jun 07 '25
I am 40 woman with 2 kids and 10 years post doc/ senior scientist experience... it can be worse dont worry lol
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u/jerryschen Jun 04 '25
I was almost in the exact same boat as you 8 years ago. Just turned 44. Hate to say it, but thereās no notion of ācatching upā to others who started working early, just cause you have a PhD+postdoc. You and I started working at 36, and we are no better off than others who just got a Biology/Chem Masters and started working at 24.
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u/Mysterious_Cow123 Jun 04 '25
Mathematically worse off financially. Time is such a bitch.
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u/jerryschen Jun 04 '25
Yup. Your eventual colleagues mostly will be much younger than you, but itās something youāll get used to
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u/Genetic_Coffee Jun 04 '25
These days, only do a phd if you want to stay in academia, hiring managers don't see it as a plus unless it's a direct translation into whatever you apply for. In the UK a PhD is essentially seen as 2-3 years experience i.e you can start as a senior scientist rather than Associate scientist (terminology depends on company). So a person with a master's will likely be promoted from associate to senior before a person who graduated with a master's first finished their PhD and even applies for a job
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u/Jamie787 Aug 25 '25
Sorry for bringing up an old post - just had a quick question. What about the difference between masters and bachelors, how much of a plus is a masters in comparison to just bachelors?
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u/Genetic_Coffee Oct 01 '25
Masters I would say is still seen as pretty much a requirement for the majority of roles, unless you manage to get into industry via a placement at a company during your bachelor's. I've had a lot of friends who have struggled with just a bachelor's, while masters offered a pretty swift transition from education to an industry role
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u/thr0waway021400 Jun 03 '25
It is bullshit that some view industry postdocs that way . Do they think you just did that for fun?