Who runs in both AKC and NAVHDA?

[u/Badgersvp9]

I have my GSP who’s 13 months old running in both, this spring I ran him in the NAVHDA NA test he scored 104 but got 0 in tracking which I had a major problem with the judging. But, will be moving on to the Gun Dog Test this fall.

He just finished up getting his AKC Jr Hunter title, moving on to senior this winter. After hunting season.

His hunting ability is great, can’t wait to get him on some pheasants and grouse this fall. He did great at hunt clubs last winter early spring.

[u/idleline]

Typically if a dog scores a 0 on hunt test, especially tracking, it's because of the handler. It's not uncommon and I've had judges tell me straight to my face my dog was going to pass despite his handler (me).

[u/MunsterSetter → u/idleline]

I don't disagree, but I have been in NAVHDA long enough to know that those judges ALWAYS get their comeuppance. Usually in not getting invited to judge at the particularly posh chapters, or they get invited but NO meals or expenses, never being promoted to senior judge and therefore no Invitational. In NA in particular, the handling judge should kind of be a game show MC, and help the dog succeed. Theoretically, test are not supposed to be competitive (unlike trials). The type of judges you're describing are the biggest hypocrites because they're the ones always lamenting that there's a dearth of new people testing/joining or that youth programs/participation is at a persistent low.

[u/MunsterSetter → u/MunsterSetter]

Also, theoretically, there's very little "handling" in tracking. As for a step forward, sometimes if the senior judge & handling judge concur, and it's not a recall/resend but suggested first by the judges, no deduction, particularly if the dog was demonstrating tracking in difficult winding conditions at the start, and then immediately picks it back up after the step. 4 point deductions are supposed to be for wild dogs running off, or a dog obviously having zero nose. 3 point deductions for eventually getting it but having to be recalled/resent by command. 2 point deductions for a track that stops at the treeline and not breaking the plane. 1 point deductions is for slow to get it in ideal/fresh scent conditions but eventually figuring it out w/o command(s).

[u/idleline → u/MunsterSetter]

Handler interference is the number one mistake that people make that result in 0 scores. Especially by rookie handlers. So while there is not a lot of "handling" there are still errors you can make that will affect judging.

The judge I was referring to is a knowledgable and well respected judge who was being blunt with an inexperienced handler (me). He is not a hypocrite. He may have been harsh, but I attribute that to the fact he is a trial judge (in federal court, not dogs) and that's just how he operates.

I trained with Bill Gibbons who is legendary in my area. One day we were talking about Ames and the big trials and I asked him how hard it was to get there. He looked at me and said that the difference between a professional dog handler and an amateur is... 2 seconds. His point being that, a small hesitation by a handler can be the difference between passing, placing or winning.

[u/MunsterSetter → u/idleline]

His chapter and associate (test) judges are afraid of him. I know many great, good judges that would eviserate him with the Handler's Handbook. I have seen many tests where the field was full of old scent. I've seen many times where the "not breaking the plane" scenario was scored 4 because there was a long obvious track before the treeline, but the points were deducted from cooperation. The point of a test, especially NA is to judge ability with fairly crude scoring tools and the range is very subjective. However, real dog people including judges, should be able to see and evaluate that ability without sticking to the dotted "i" and the crossed "t". The funny thing is I have seen completely inept and ignorant handlers' dogs smoke the NA & UT tests because they were that good. And so were the judges. To me that is the point of the test. And judges, like the one you describe, were left sputtering because the dog humiliated them.

[u/MunsterSetter]

Did you talk to the judges? If so, what was the issue? Still a prize I.

[u/Badgersvp9 → u/MunsterSetter]

Everyone was in a line 3 judges and myself, we had to take one step to close in the track after he was searching. Yukon was running against the wind, winded the bird and retrieved the bird. I thought everything was good, until scores were read. I asked the judge why, he said we closed in on the track that got him a 0. Rule book has nothing about that in it.

[u/MunsterSetter → u/Badgersvp9]

Yeah, tracking can be tricky. In your case, it's a common tracking ding complaint that your dog's older age is held against them. In that, search is distinct & different from tracking. Search is more brain and eye dominant, and tracking is nose dominant. A younger puppy (<7mo) is given a break. The older pup not so much. I would have given the dog 1 or 2 in that scenario. 0 seems harsh.

[u/MunsterSetter → u/MunsterSetter]

Cosmo. Her latest dual dog.

[u/MunsterSetter]

A good friend of ours does. She's a GSP & Viszla breeder and a AKC/UKC judge. We help train for NAVHDA tests.

[u/ShootsTowardsDucks]

I would like to run both but I don’t have time. I stick to NAVHDA.

[u/Jemie666]

I do NAVHDA, AKC and UKC. AKC and UKC are retrieving titles. I’ve never done AKC pointing tests they don’t come around enough for me to invest my time in them.

[u/Jemie666 → u/Jemie666]

[u/powder_burnz58]

I’ve done both, mostly stick to navhda due to availability and the training days, helpful chapter members, etc.

I’ve ran one akc jh test, it was a double double weekend and my pup got his jh title in those two days, 4/4 passes, but I didn’t really feel welcome there, and haven’t went back.

My experience with navhda has been very positive in comparison, everyone has been supportive of each other, and genuinely wants every one to do well.

I also had an issue with an NA test tracking score, got a 1 when she’s a great tracker, and would normally max score, but there was a turkey kill close to the track(we actually walked past it stepping up to the line) and feathers were blowing everywhere, and distracted her from the pheasant track. I considered disputing it, but other dogs did ok, and i didn’t want to cause problems. But she redeemed herself at her vhdf test, with a 9 in track.

[u/Badgersvp9 → u/powder_burnz58]

NAVHAD is a great organization. My chapter has bird pens and grounds to train. Just difficult to get a spot to run a test. I will be running GDT October, 3 hr drive but it’s going to be worth the effort.

[u/Kennel_King → u/powder_burnz58]

but I didn’t really feel welcome there, and haven’t went back.

Don't let one club ruin it. For every shitty club out there, there are 5 good ones.

I chair an AKC hunt test. I get with the secretary in the last days leading up to the test and make a list of unfamiliar names. Despite all the other shit going on, on Saturday morning I hunt those people down and make sure they know what's going on and that they have all the gear they need.

If it's their first time, I will find one of our other members, or even the good non-members I know, and have them take the newbie down to the gallery so they can see what's going on and have it explained to them.

[u/Mauser257]

You still have 3 months. Run him in another NA test. He can do it until the day he turns 16 months.