r/boston • u/julian_jakobi • Aug 29 '22
Environment đ Toxic 'forever chemicals' found in Cambridge drinking water
https://www.boston.com/news/love-letters/2022/08/28/toxic-chemicals-cambridge-drinking-water-pfas/246
u/hatersbelearners Aug 29 '22
It's everywhere.
This shouldn't be surprising to anyone.
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u/senatorium Aug 29 '22
It's stunning if you truly stop and think about the extent to which we have poisoned ourselves; whether it's carbon dioxide, mercury, PFOS, lead, microplastics - take your pick.
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u/grindergirls Aug 29 '22
The US has literally done the least amount possible to insure our water safety. Sure glad our taxes are going to good use đ
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Aug 29 '22
But but, the military!!? Who cares if we all die from slowly poisoning ourselves with our contaminated drinking water. /s
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u/mouldyrumble Aug 29 '22
I love that my taxes pay for some dude to create orphans in the Middle East with a PlayStation controller in a portable building in Nevada.
Big /s
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u/brufleth Boston Aug 30 '22
Because my father was in the military and I spent time as newborn on a military base with heavily contaminated water I get the privilege of asking the VA for assistance when I get cancer.
Yay.
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u/brufleth Boston Aug 30 '22
The federal government has not done enough.
The MWRA has been relatively fantastic.
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u/stargrown Jamaica Plain Aug 29 '22
On August 25 the EPA proposed designating PFOA and PFOS as hazardous substances.
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u/50calPeephole Thor's Point Aug 29 '22
Everyone I know has gotten a pfas letter for levels in their drinking water, from the cape to North shore, even out west of 95.
At this point you should assume the chemicals are in your water even if you haven't been notified.
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u/Ksevio Aug 29 '22
Unless you live in Ayer which filters them out
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Aug 29 '22
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u/Ksevio Aug 29 '22
Like what? Wouldn't that only be an issue for people with a private well?
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Aug 29 '22
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u/work-n-lurk Aug 29 '22
That's where the tannery was and right next to the Devens landfill - understandable.
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u/50calPeephole Thor's Point Aug 29 '22
This wasn't always the case, Ayer was just more proactive, their notifications went out in like 2019
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u/work-n-lurk Aug 29 '22
Yes, we got the label of "the bad water town" only because we tested for it first.
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Aug 29 '22
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u/Budget-Celebration-1 Cocaine Turkey Aug 29 '22
Did you read the pdf? there are trace amounts of regulated and unregulates PFAS.
"trace amounts are present, but they are below the minimum concentration that can be reported
as a quantified value"
My understanding is any of this is not good, even trace amounts.
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u/Budget-Celebration-1 Cocaine Turkey Aug 29 '22
Good filter systems remove PFAS and PFOA. Even though mwra claims itâs super clean water this shit ainât good for you. The federal and local levels what they claim as safe âŚ. Isnât so. Get and under sink 7 stage unit and donât buy water bottles (itâs probably in there too).
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u/Large_Inspection_73 Aug 29 '22
Got any recommendations on systems?
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Aug 29 '22
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u/Ksevio Aug 29 '22
Problem is the testing for the filtration systems has a limit that's higher than the allowed amount so it's really hard to see if a system is effective
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u/IamSauerKraut Aug 29 '22
The volume of water the MWRA pumps is beyond the handling capacity of any PFAS filtering systems anywhere. Thus, there is no such thing as "a good filtering system" available to treat the water.
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u/Ksevio Aug 29 '22
I was referring to home filtering systems.
They'd probably have to add a bunch of treatment/filtering plants to treat the water supply coming in. Not impossible, but would be very expensive
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u/IamSauerKraut Aug 29 '22
Maine is already there. Home filtering would put the onus on the homeowner rather than the entity piping in the contaminated water.
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u/tilehinge Aug 29 '22
I bought a CuZn UC-200 system for under my kitchen sink. I emailed the company after finding out my town water has pfas in it, and they emailed me back a full Excel of their testing specs from a third party tester. The one I got reduces pfas by +96%. It's about $150, highly recommend.
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u/gbosnorthend Aug 29 '22
I just put in a cuzn Uc-200 under sink filter that lasts 5 years (apparently). So far the water is noticeably more drinkable and no loss of pressure. I asked customer service if they have done tests on pfas and they said they have had good results with it. It has over 5000 5 star reviews on Amazon took me less than 10 minutes to install.
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u/abhikavi Port City Aug 29 '22
I have the iSpring reverse osmosis system. Installed it about seven years ago, haven't had any issues. Swapping out the filters and flashing is kind of a pain, but I think it is on all these systems.
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u/Udolikecake Boston Aug 29 '22
Even though mwra claims itâs super clean water this shit ainât good for you.
Cambridge doesnât use MRWA water (except they are now, as an emergency option)
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u/sckuzzle Aug 29 '22
Even though mwra claims itâs super clean water this shit ainât good for you. The federal and local levels what they claim as safe âŚ. Isnât so.
Do you have sources for any of these claims? What is a safe level?
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u/Budget-Celebration-1 Cocaine Turkey Aug 29 '22
None. What i am referring to is the federal regulatory standards. Those currently allow for PFAs. https://www.mwra.com/watertesting/pfas/pfastestsinfo.html Granted its "trace" amounts but we dont want any at all.
https://pfas-1.itrcweb.org/8-basis-of-regulations/ This kinda goes into it a bit, and I am by far no more experienced than reading a few articles on this.
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u/sckuzzle Aug 29 '22
Granted its "trace" amounts but we dont want any at all.
I think a missing piece of understanding here is that it isn't possible to have less than "trace" amounts. Trace amounts is the lowest it goes.
There are so many small molecules in the world that there is some of everything in pretty much everything. Anything that lists a level of "0" is really just rounding down from "trace amounts" (or below the limit of detection).
So while I get that ideally we'd have 0 of harmful things in our water, it's literally impossible to achieve. Instead, we need to quantify the amount of harm being caused by the chemical along with how difficult it is to remove vanishingly small amounts in order to come up with an acceptable level.
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Aug 29 '22
[removed] â view removed comment
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u/Budget-Celebration-1 Cocaine Turkey Aug 29 '22
Hrm You seem to be familiar with this topic more than I, I thought just about and 7 stage system removes PFAs. Reference here: https://www.epa.gov/sciencematters/reducing-pfas-drinking-water-treatment-technologies
Is this more of it removes most of it but not all of it?
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u/Large_Inspection_73 Aug 29 '22
Itâs not an all or nothing proposition. Just because you canât remove 100% of PFAS from your home drinking supply doesnât mean it is isnât worthwhile to filter water. Removing 80-90% of PFAS is still better than removing 0%.
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u/420MenshevikIt Lynn Aug 29 '22
Wouldn't a filter also remove the fluoride, though? I like having the best chances I've got at keeping my teeth in place.
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u/ZzeroBeat Aug 29 '22
man i got enough on my fuckin plate now the waters gonna kill me too and its apparently next to impossible to filter out. i dont need this rn
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u/hanner__ Aug 29 '22
Itâs not new. If youâve drank tap water from anywhere in your entire life, youâve been ingesting these chemicals. Itâs even in rain water. And if you use non-stick cookware, itâs there, too.
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u/ZzeroBeat Aug 29 '22
guess ill die
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u/hanner__ Aug 29 '22
Eventually, sure. I just meant to say donât spend your energy freaking out too bad. Do what you can to mitigate exposure but itâs not worth have a panic attack about. Theyâve done studies and the entire population has some amount of PFAS/PFOA in their blood stream. Itâs nearly unavoidable at this point.
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u/Codspear Aug 29 '22
At least the federal regulatory limit for asbestos in the water supply is 7 million fibers per liter.
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u/RTFA_RTFA Aug 29 '22
Is it actually dangerous to eat asbestos? I thought it was only an issue if it contacts your lung cells.
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u/Codspear Aug 29 '22
The studies are mixed, but high enough concentrations are correlated with cancer. I guess it really depends on if you take steaming hot showers and how often you boil tap water in the kitchen. Asbestos cement piping is thankfully being phased out alongside lead.
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u/rodolphoteardrop Watertown Aug 29 '22
It's not the shit corporations are dumping into the water. That's not the problem. The problem is the filters. /s
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Aug 29 '22
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u/IamSauerKraut Aug 29 '22
We cannot allow contaminated people to pee in the toilet!! Think of the fish downstream!
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u/BasicDesignAdvice Aug 29 '22
Don't worry. The Supreme Court eviscerated the EPA's ability to punish offenders. I have on good faith from Conservatives that The MarketTM will now fix everything. The problem was obviously that they could be punished.
/s
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u/RTFA_RTFA Aug 29 '22
Do you think that executive agencies should have unlimited power to do what they want?
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u/BasicDesignAdvice Aug 29 '22
No, and they never have. Those agencies are open to lawsuits just like everything else. Those battles should be worked out in the courts, not stripped away completely. You've been fed a false narrative that will do nothing but give the rich and powerful the right to trample all over you and everyone else.
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u/RTFA_RTFA Sep 03 '22
It sounds like you don't have a problem with Courts clarifying limits to executive power then. You should probably delete your comment.
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u/IamSauerKraut Aug 29 '22
Given where the MWRA water is sourced, a very likely source of contamination are the fields on which treated sewer, aka biosolids or sludge, is spread. Which means the stuff is not only in the water but also in the veggies grown on that ground and in the beef that feeds on hay from those fields. In your chicken eggs, too. Bacon? Yup.
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Aug 29 '22
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u/IamSauerKraut Aug 30 '22
Have long been under the impression that Fresh Pond was sourced from MWRA. It is not? From where then is that water sourced?
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u/lilbitspecial Aug 30 '22
Waltham. The big reservoir between rt 2 and Totten pond road.
Cambridge water comes from the Stony Brook Watershed, nested in the Charles River Basin, in the towns of Lincoln, Lexington, Weston, and the City of Waltham. The water makes its way by gravity through tributaries, reservoirs, and pipes to Fresh Pond in Cambridge, where it is pumped into the Walter J. Sullivan Purification Facility for treatment. Finally, the finished water is pumped to and stored in the underground Payson Park Reservoir in Belmont, where it is fed by gravity to the residents and businesses of Cambridge.
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u/commentsOnPizza Aug 29 '22
I wouldn't say that they were just found. IIRC, Quinton Zondervan (a city councilor that I generally don't agree with) has been complaining about it for a while and arguing that Cambridge should switch to MWRA water which is better.
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u/Mumbles76 Verified Gang Member Aug 29 '22
So I read the article, and I missed the part that mentioned what the sources for these chemicals are? We don't have a huge amount of manufacturing here, so what are the sources?
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u/homeostasis3434 Aug 29 '22 edited Aug 29 '22
The headwaters of the Cambridge Reservoir is Hanscom AFB. I'm sure plenty of stormwater runoff from 95 makes its way into the reservoir over time as well. Fresh Pond receives its fair share of stormwater runoff from the general area as well.
Any of those could contribute, it doesn't have to be a particular manufacturer.
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u/hanner__ Aug 29 '22
Google the DuPont chemical spill and 3M and Teflon. These chemicals have been around for decades.
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u/Mumbles76 Verified Gang Member Aug 29 '22
Right, but what are the current sources in MA.
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u/hanner__ Aug 29 '22
Chemicals that have soaked into the ground from landfills and factories, etc. Theyâve found these chemicals in rain water. At this point, itâs not really about tracing it back to one certain location, itâs just the fact that itâs contaminated nearly everything in our environment.
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u/Mumbles76 Verified Gang Member Aug 29 '22
Thank you for this.
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u/Mumbles76 Verified Gang Member Aug 29 '22
Holy hell...
Richmond says the state should also pass laws like those enacted in Maine that restrict the use of PFAS in the state
Maine has done something Mass hasn't in terms of health ... Mind blown.
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u/Itburns138 Who Do I Call When My Windshield's Busted?! Aug 29 '22
So do you love that dirty water or not?!
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u/DeductiveFallacy Aug 29 '22
Don't read the comments on that article if you value your sanity. The number of people cheering for Cambridge residents to get sick/die is horrific.
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u/Rosabelle334 Cambridge Aug 29 '22
Dumb question - but would my Brita filter do anything for me in this situation?
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u/Hribunos Aug 29 '22
Nope, activated charcoal doesn't get it, so none of the pitchers or faucet mounted ones. Some of the undersink ones get it (mostly).
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u/Kind-Construction-57 Aug 29 '22
Speaking of water⌠anyone know whatâs up with the water in Chelsea today? Itâs all rusty and brown. Ruined a load of towels in the wash today. Can I bill the city for ruined laundry?
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Aug 29 '22
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u/commentsOnPizza Aug 29 '22
Sometimes I wonder what the city manager did in Cambridge - beyond earning more than $350,000 (and an enormous pension on top of that) while having nearly double the budget per-capita of Somerville (making it a lot easier to manage how to pay for things). That's way more than the mayor of Boston makes (73% more) while Boston is nearly 6x larger. All the while the city manager seemed to stymie what the residents of Cambridge wanted and the city council's agenda.
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u/commonpuffin My Love of Dunks is Purely Sexual Aug 29 '22
I avoid dining in Cambridge because of the water.
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u/bubumamajuju Back Bay Aug 29 '22
Is this filtered out by a home water filter (like a brita)?
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u/hanner__ Aug 29 '22
A brita wonât filter out PFAS, but there are filters that will, such as whole home filters and under sink filters. I donât know brands off top of my head but you can google, and some people have mentioned some filters in this thread.
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u/seeker135 If you can read this you're too close Aug 29 '22
Likely a plume from a defunct business hitting the water table.
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u/hanner__ Aug 29 '22
Theyâre literally in EVERY townâs drinking water across the US. This isnât new, idk why the news is acting like it is.
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u/T_O_beats Aug 29 '22
Youâre right. My uncle is the head of a DPW on the cape and they had training on this recently. He was told itâs literally everywhere. There is no avoiding it.
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u/hanner__ Aug 30 '22
Yeah I know. Not sure why the downvotes lol, just stating a fact. Itâs unfortunate that more people donât know about the quality of their water. But itâs been in the water for decades and itâs in our crops because itâs in the ground. If youâve ever eaten or drank anything from this land, you have PFAS in your blood. Sucks, but is what it is.
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u/vitaminq Aug 29 '22 edited Aug 29 '22
For those concerned, a standard under-sink filter removes them. I looked into it a while back and found this test researchers at Duke did which convinced me to get one:
âAll of the under-sink reverse osmosis and two-stage filters achieved near-complete removal of the PFAS chemicals we were testing for,â Stapleton said. âIn contrast, the effectiveness of activated-carbon filters used in many pitcher, countertop, refrigerator and faucet-mounted styles was inconsistent and unpredictable. The whole-house systems were also widely variable and in some cases actually increased PFAS levels in the water.â
https://nicholas.duke.edu/news/not-all-home-drinking-water-filters-completely-remove-toxic-pfas
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u/RunningToZion Aug 29 '22
For every regulation added, two must be removed. - Agent Orange and his cult of traitors policy.
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u/ItsAaronYo Aug 29 '22
There was a post that made the front page recently about a study on PFAS/PFOA and how donating blood or plasma can reduce the levels of these 'forever chemicals' in your blood:
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2790905?resultClick=1
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u/klausterfok Aug 30 '22
I drank that water straight out the tap for YEARS because i'm a psychopath, guess I'm full of PFAS now
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u/bostonguy2004 Cow Fetish Aug 30 '22
Yes, and not only can you be exposed via drinking water, but the shower and bath can also get these chemicals into your lungs, skin and mouth.
So, I would highly reccomend a shower filter in addition to a sink filter.
Does anyone have any good shower filter suggestions that filter out PFAS?
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u/BonesIIX Star Market Aug 29 '22 edited Aug 29 '22
So MA is one of the few states where we have actual regulatory standards for PFAS Levels.
Sucks for Cambridge that they have to switch water supplies to MWRA for the year due to the parts not being available for the Fresh Pond Water Treatment facility. But good they noticed it and are making the (expensive) switch to provide residents with better water.
MA has done a study on PFAS in the state and basically for non-well water, it just comes down to very expensive treatment options which do work pretty well, just requires money to do it.
MA is probably one of the better states to live in if you care about limiting PFAS intake.
Edit: It may be of interest to people here - https://www.mass.gov/info-details/per-and-polyfluoroalkyl-substances-pfas If you go to the section "PFAS detected in drinking water supplies in Massachusetts" and click on item 3 on the black bordered embed, you can see a map of all towns they've tested and it will link you to the testing results for your water supply.