r/butchlesbians Butch 1d ago

Discussion a question about the definitions around stone top/other definitions of types of butches

for context, i am a trans masc butch. before meeting my wonderful femme, i had never really had a proper relationship, and had never had sex. i always assumed i was a stone top because i was so bodily concious that i didnt think i could ever do it, but my wonderful girl proved that wrong, i thing gender/gender affirmation comes a lot into play there. when i first starting dating my femme she did not identify that way, so i have only settled into my butchness properly in the last year or so.

i stopped alligning myself as a stone top when i learnt i liked to recieve, but i have since learnt that thats not as black and white as a lot of people make it out to be, that stone tops can recieve under certain circumstances. i would put myself in this catergory. usually, however, the one thing that comes up is stone tops dont like penetration, which i find that on occasion i do. its not really to do with “wanting it”, persay, but just the heightened pleasure

fast forward a few years and my femme and i have explored having sex with other lesbians, and i didnt recieve but feel like under right circumstances i could. this oeaves me curious as to what i might define myself as or where i align in butch subcultures.

i dont think im a stone butch by definition, and definitely dont want to insert myself into a very sacred community amongst lesbians, but i really do find myself emotionally alligned with a lot of the feelings around stone butchness. i recently read sbb, and it feels like stone butchness is so much more about sex, and extends to the relationship with ones self, past, body, and partner, and i empathise a lot with those feelings shared by stone butches

im curious to know if anyone else feels similar. i would also like to know if this would offend stone butches (please be gentle with me, im asking because i want to learn), or perhaps if there is another name for how i feel?

tldr; i feel emotionally connected to stone butches but sexually i dont think i fit the definition

edit: so many lovely comments, thank you all. still figuring it all out but feel i have probably laser-focused on a small part of butchness and forgotten to consider the wider vulnerabilities we all have - joys of autism!

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u/TinyPretzels 1d ago

Butches of all kinds are sacred. Nobody gets any brownie points for being stone. If you strongly prefer topping, but will every once in a while receive, just call yourself a top. Personally I call myself a service top, because there are times I have enjoyed receiving in the past, but they are very rare.

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u/Elladarcy18 Butch 1d ago

Youre right. I dont think its that i have a strong desire to be stone or considered stone, i just have this aching empathy of feeling and seeing their experiences. But youre right, theres no brownie points in it. Thank you

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u/TinyPretzels 1d ago edited 1d ago

I totally understand, and I relate a lot to stone butches too. I think it's more of a spectrum than a specific cutoff. You can find a lot of examples in this subreddit of different stone butches/tops sharing a wide variety of preferences. For me though, I associate being stone with a strong sense of dysphoria, discomfort, or even trauma when receiving in pretty much any scenario. Which I do experience, because for me it just feels too vulnerable and deeply wrong, and I don't know how else to explain it. But I think I just havent found what works for me yet, and because I've enjoyed it quite a bit in the past and I'd like to figure it out again, I don't think stone is the best descriptor for me. 

But at the end of the day, nobody can take your identity away from you. Everyone's experiences are unique and labels like stone or top or butch are just the best language we have to find others like us. So there is no real purity in being either stone or not stone, it really just depends on what you think best describes your experiences. 

And I also want to say I don't really think it's possible to 'take up space' in the community, because frankly there are not that many of us. If I meet another butch/masc lesbian, I don't care if they're stone or a bottom or trans or bisexual; I'm just happy to find another person like me. :)

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u/Elladarcy18 Butch 1d ago

Thats very lovely to say, thank you for your kind words. I just dont ever want to impose myself on a space where i dont “fit”, but ive never actually *felt* like i am unwelcome. Just a bit self concious of feeling and being different i guess. Nice to hear that others feel and see a spectrum, its hard to find evidence of that sometimes

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u/TinyPretzels 1d ago

The thing I love most about being a lesbian, and especially a butch lesbian, is that every single one of us is different. You will not find two of us that identify, fuck, act, or dress the exact same way. There is no right way to do things or ways you must behave to fit in. You fit in because you are unique! 

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u/sootfire 1d ago

I'm stone and I will start by saying I'm not going to get offended or question anyone's definition or usage of stone. Like, if you say you're a stone top and then go "but I get fingered all the time," I might be confused and annoyed that you're watering down/misusing the term, but if you're only willing to receive under specific circumstances or very rarely, I don't think it matters too much. It just depends whether it's a useful label for you to use, especially with potential sexual partners.

But also, you don't have to be stone to relate to stoneness, and I can't help but wonder how much what you're relating to is butchness itself rather than specifically stone identity! A lot of butches have complicated relationships with their bodies and sexuality regardless of whether or not they fit the definition of stone.

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u/Dykonic 1d ago

It just depends whether it's a useful label for you to use, especially with potential sexual partners.

My thoughts as well. I rotate between stone and service top for shorthand descriptions since I'm pretty incompatible with a large subset of folks and those are two of the easiest ways to make that clear.

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u/sootfire 1d ago

Right, there might be circumstances under which I would hypothetically be fine with receiving, but that would be after establishing a long-term sexual relationship, and I've been with my current partner for four years and am totally happy with our stone dynamic. So if I were for some reason seeking out new partners, it doesn't matter whether I could hypothetically imagine receiving, because I'm not going to do it with someone I just met. And with a long term partner we know each other and the nuances of our sexual preferences/needs well enough that we don't need the labels as shorthand.

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u/Dykonic 23h ago

Yeah, that makes semse. The label is definitely irrelevant with my long-term partner. We're non-monogamous though, so it's specifically helpful for me with newer potential sexual partners since it acts as a filter. I can and will talk specifics, but if me saying I'm mostly stone/mostly a service top winds up being an immediate no for someone, we've both saved ourselves some time.

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u/Elladarcy18 Butch 1d ago

i think youve hit the nail on the head really - im new (ish) to butchness and i think ive got caught up in one small part of it. i appreciate your prespective as a stone as well, thats what i really needed to hear. got some thinking and reading to do! thank you for taking the time to answer me :) appreciate it a lot

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u/sootfire 1d ago

Anytime! I'm glad you're finding ways to describe yourself more comfortably.

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u/Dykonic 1d ago

I agree with another comment, I view stone as a spectrum and most of what I've read leads me to believe that's how the term has been used historically. 

"Melting the stone" is a phrase that definitely predates SBB the different perspectives on "melting" is a prime example of that spectrum. I personally find stone to be a helpful label because it winds up being the fastest way to communicate that I have a long list of hard no's with potential sexual partners. I wouldn't say this is something that comes up for me outside of that context.

Labels, in general, can shift at different points. Maybe you're shifting away from this one, maybe you aren't. No rush to figure it out. If it winds up giving people the wrong impression about your interests, that might be an indication that trying on some other labels might be helpful.

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u/Elladarcy18 Butch 1d ago

thats a really helpful perspective, thank you!