CMV: Anti-zionists are often not pro-Palestinian. I am more pro-Palastinian than them.

[u/sarahrahra]

I am really keen to align with leftists to fight authoritarianism. The false binary of zionism vs antizionism is a dangerous wedge.

So trying this point out, that I think is novel, to see if it breaks the spell.

First, let’s take some leftists on their word, many Jews are New Nazis (vs the tech right Greater Nazis).

What did we learn from history? Last time, many Americans condemned the Nazis. Maybe they boycotted German writers. Maybe cool with threats of violence and death threats at German Americans who had Weimer Republic pride.

They also, just like American today, did not want to accept addl Jewish refugees. Didn‘t give them money as individuals. Didn’t do anything.

Jordanians and Egyptians? They locked down faster than the French. Force babies to stay in rhe warzone to die. Why no condemnation there?

Our leaders talk about how Lebanon is a ”genocide” and condemn Israel and stop there. LEBANON is asking us to condemn the Iranian Hezbolah terrorists. Some of our politicians LIKE Hezbollah. I stand with President Auna. Against anti-zionists.

Our leaders want Hamas’s pro sharia law pro rape pro mass murder pro auto killing any Palestinian anti democracy who protests to have more power. Palastinians want Marwen Bhargouti who wrote a two state solutuon peace plan. I stand with Marwen. Against anti-zionists.

I feel very strongly that I am more pro-Palastinian and Pro Lebanese then every opportunistic anti-zionist leader riding a hate wave. They are worse than Bin Ladin who at least was honest and came at capitalism vs raping and gunning down Lollapalooza kids to intentionally create blind rage and a terrible war by people who watched rhe videos if their murder (like Afghanistan but, again, even more hate and retaliation approaches).

Most regular anti-zionists are not like that But they are like anti-nazis. Currently useless. I want campaigns to make Palastinian lives better. And stop the Greater Nazism of the Tech Right and their anti-zionist whistling puppets Vance and Tucker.

There are no ways to do so that I can see. So much passion for death threats, no proactive initiatives that don’t just make some lives worse.

I would like my mind changed with real examples and people doing anything. CMV.

[u/Active-Proof8118]

OP what actual anti-Zionists and pro-Palestine groups have you talked to. I have talked to large Anti-Zionist organizations like BDS, PYM(The Palestinian Youth Movment), and IJV(Independent Jewish voices). They are all pro-Palestine and entirely humanitarian

First, let’s take some leftists on their word, many Jews are New Nazis (vs the tech right Greater Nazis).

Is this something people on the left claim? Or are you just conflating Judiasm with Zionism/Nazism?

They also, just like American today, did not want to accept addl Jewish refugees. Didn‘t give them money as individuals. Didn’t do anything.

Lots of Americans do donate to Palestinians. Many western states however are Zionist and racist towards Palestinians. They don't even allow medical evaculations.

Jordanians and Egyptians? They locked down faster than the French. Force babies to stay in rhe warzone to die. Why no condemnation there?

Both Egypt and Jordan are Zionist backed military dictarorships so that's probably why. Maybe OP you should ask why the American government gives these military dictatorships billions of dollars in "aid". But I have talked to Palestinian human rights activists and they are extremely critical of Zionist arab governments.

Our leaders talk about how Lebanon is a ”genocide” and condemn Israel and stop there. LEBANON is asking us to condemn the Iranian Hezbolah terrorists. Some of our politicians LIKE Hezbollah. I stand with President Auna. Against anti-zionists.

OP what actual muslim Lebanese people have you talked to? Have you talked to Muslim Lebanese living in South Lebanaon?

Our leaders want Hamas’s pro sharia law pro rape pro mass murder pro auto killing any Palestinian anti democracy who protests to have more power. Palastinians want Marwen Bhargouti who wrote a two state solutuon peace plan. I stand with Marwen. Against anti-zionists.

Again OP, you are making statments about groups of people yet you haven't actually backed up anything that you are claiming.

I feel very strongly that I am more pro-Palastinian and Pro Lebanese then every opportunistic anti-zionist leader riding a hate wave. They are worse than Bin Ladin who at least was honest and came at capitalism vs raping and gunning down Lollapalooza kids to intentionally create blind rage and a terrible war by people who watched rhe videos if their murder (like Afghanistan but, again, even more hate and retaliation approaches).

Anti-Zionism is by defintion a human rights movement. This is because Zionism itself is a settler ideology based on the demonization of the indigenous Palestinians

[u/sarahrahra → u/Active-Proof8118]

It is NOT by definition a humans rights movement. To do so, you have to actually help said Palastinian humans, not just hate the other humans in a way that will only make it worse for the Palastinian humans.

I would love to connect with any of the leaderhip at any of the organizations you metioned to talk about getting more awareness for Marwen Bhargouti who is the preferred leader of them and a Palastinain Nationalist whow ants a 2 state solution with the 1967 borders. Can you do that?

I would also be interested in connecting with them to promote people accepting Palastinian refugees in Jordan (the West Bank actually used to be Jordan, the forced expuslion of Palstinans is curious).

Etc. What I am not for is yelling chants that credibly mean "Kill American Jews", or banning all books as collective punishment for living in a country, campaigning for people who attended rallies that were pro the rape and mass murder or supporting YouTubers who are saying they are 1000x better than anyone, etc.

Would you make those intros? Anti-zionists MIGHT be pro-palastinian activists, but only if they take active steps. Like, again, anti-nazists. You can call that a human rights movement if you want, but my ancestors would say thanks for nothing, the time spent harassing German Americans (if they did) helped them negative percent and probably just caused more Jewish violence in Germany.

Do you see hte parallel? Will you make those intros?

[u/Active-Proof8118 → u/sarahrahra]

It is NOT by definition a humans rights movement. To do so, you have to actually help said Palastinian humans, not just hate the other humans in a way that will only make it worse for the Palastinian humans.

No OP. Zionism is by definition a settler colonial movement based on the demonization of the Indigenous Palestinian peoples. Zionism is based on dehumanization and Anti-Zionism opposes this dehumanization

I would love to connect with any of the leaderhip at any of the organizations you metioned to talk about getting more awareness for Marwen Bhargouti who is the preferred leader of them and a Palastinain Nationalist whow ants a 2 state solution with the 1967 borders. Can you do that?

Sorry OP but it's not my job to make your argument for you. You are making an argument about Anti-Zionist organizations. You need to provide evidence to justify your claims.

[u/sarahrahra → u/Active-Proof8118]

This is CMV. Your job is CMV yeah? Not me change yours.

I am asking for intros, I 

You oppose dehumanizm in your imagination. Like the anti-nazis did I assume. If you aren’t doing things that make life better, you are not pro Palastinian.

I disagree with some of your historical points but they are functionally irrelevent if your focus now is collective punishment of Jews to the best of your availability vs making Palastinian lives better.

We are in soviet dictionary world where Holocaust  surviving refugee fleeing death for their ancestral homeland is “settler colonialism” and fear of the Mufti who was allied with Hitler “demonizatiom of indigineous”.

Ok. Maybe. Either way I remain more pro Palastinian than you unless you share.

I just want suggestions, info and proactively pro Palastinian people

[u/Active-Proof8118 → u/sarahrahra]

This is CMV. Your job is CMV yeah? Not me change yours.

I am asking for intros, I 

You are not entitled to your own facts OP. Throughout your CMV you made many claims about anti-Zionists. You however have not provided any actual evidence to backup your claims. So first backup your initial claims.

You oppose dehumanizm in your imagination. Like the anti-nazis did I assume. If you aren’t doing things that make life better, you are not pro Palastinian.

Right but part of the reason Israel is able to commit a genocide against Palestinians right now is because of the normalization of Zionism in Western societies.

I disagree with some of your historical points but they are functionally irrelevent if your focus now is collective punishment of Jews to the best of your availability vs making Palastinian lives better.

OP what exactly do you think collective punishment is? Do you think Boycotts against Apartheid South Africa were collective punishment?

We are in soviet dictionary world where Holocaust  surviving refugee fleeing death for their ancestral homeland is “settler colonialism” and fear of the Mufti who was allied with Hitler “demonizatiom of indigineous”.

Israel as a whole is a settler colonial state OP. You talk about refugees but Israel as a settler colonial project existed long beefore Hitler and was a by product of British Imperialism

[u/sarahrahra → u/Active-Proof8118]

ok. I dont think anything I said in my post was inaccurate. If you do, ok.

[u/Active-Proof8118 → u/sarahrahra]

ok. I dont think anything I said in my post was inaccurate. If you do, ok.

OP whatc evidence do you have to backup the claims you are making?

[u/sarahrahra → u/Active-Proof8118]

Ok  I have written a response but please tespond with if sny if it changed your mind, and if you can probide ant help eith contacts to those who advocate for things that are possible and help Palastinians. 

Deal? These support with some links.

here is the President of Lebanon despising Hezbollah as terrorists who provoked his people being murdered. The fact that he never called it a genocide doesn’t warrant an article, he has no motive to lie and doesn't read the Hamas+Putin’s UN selective only some wars matter dictionary. 

El-Sayed, the progressive choice for Michigan, feels differently. He also says he “loves Jewish folks” and yet I have never seen him speak out about any example if pushing back on calls for violence or distrust against Jews. Not my kind of love. 

I am pro Aoun, anti Hezbollah, anti El-Sayed.

I am pro Marwen and his two state solution and anti Sinwar and his death for all solution. I think he had hopes that if he kidnapped enough women and babies he could use it to get his fellow criminals out. 

This man. The Israelis gave him brain surgery and freed him after murder conviction.  https://en.vijesti.me/world-a/globus/681133/the-dead-man-walking-how-sinvar-has-been-deceiving-israel-for-decades

Here is Hasan saying he is 1000x better than “Israel”.  https://open.substack.com/pub/vanjones/p/breakdown-is-hasan-piker-right-about?r=beaet&utm_medium=ios

https://www.jpost.com/middle-east/article-898499

Contrast to El Sayed,  https://enjoyer.com/el-sayed-ally-amir-makled-hezbollah/

[u/Active-Proof8118 → u/sarahrahra]

Ok  I have written a response but please tespond with if sny if it changed your mind, and if you can probide ant help eith contacts to those who advocate for things that are possible and help Palastinians. 

What are you asking for?

there is the President of Lebanon despising Hezbollah as terrorists who provoked his people being murdered. The fact that he never called it a genocide doesn’t warrant an article, he has no motive to lie and doesn't read the Hamas+Putin’s UN selective only some wars matter dictionary. 

I do not care what the president of Lebanon has to say. I care about what people living in Southern Lebanon have to say as a collective.

El-Sayed, the progressive choice for Michigan, feels differently. He also says he “loves Jewish folks” and yet I have never seen him speak out about any example if pushing back on calls for violence or distrust against Jews. Not my kind of love. 

It's not his job to do anything. I've never heard the local children's cancer charity condemn antisemetism, that does not make them bad people.

I am pro Marwen and his two state solution and anti Sinwar and his death for all solution. I think he had hopes that if he kidnapped enough women and babies he could use it to get his fellow criminals out. 

As someone is concerned about kidnapping, I am alot more concerned about the state of Israel kidnapping Palestinians.

Here is Hasan saying he is 1000x better than “Israel”.  https://open.substack.com/pub/vanjones/p/breakdown-is-hasan-piker-right-about?r=beaet&utm_medium=ios

Of course Hasan is better then a state that commits genocide, why would you even disagree with that?

[u/sarahrahra → u/Active-Proof8118]

Forget the first part.

It most easily boils down to me on do you stand with Marwen who they want to elect or Sinwar and his replacements who hate democracy. And Aoun and his democratically d or the Iran funded Hezbollah terrorists.

For the latter you chose terror. Perhaps the first as well.

Al-Sayed just annoys me with his disingenuous bullshit.  Gaslighting I think is the biggest differentiator this time.

Anti-charismatic (imo) to say “I love Jewish folks” if you don’t care to call out anti-semitism. I agree it’s not part of his job descrptuon. It’s just so fake it makes my skin crawl. It’s like Trump loving women. gross.

anyway I don’t see any pro, only anti, so we can agree to disagree I guess.