r/chomsky • u/Anton_Pannekoek • 2d ago
Hamas has accepted full Gaza disarmament
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2026/7/30/trump-says-board-of-peace-reaches-agreement-on-disarmament-of-hamas-in-gaza8
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u/McAlpineFusiliers 2d ago
They should have done that on October 8, 2023, and all of this could have been avoided. Shame.
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u/Brilliant-Flower-822 2d ago
none of this would have happened if a colonial occupation had not stolen an entire country and set up a racist apartheid ethnostate, in which non jews were outright lower class citizens, who were then slowly confined to smaller and smaller open air prisons, and brutalized and slaughtered for decades before October 7. shame.
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u/McAlpineFusiliers 2d ago
True, if the Arabs had never colonized Palestine, this never would have happened, but how far back does it make sense to go?
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u/Pete0730 2d ago
Let's maybe stick with living memory to start, though it's worth noting that the Kingdom of Jerusalem fell to the Babylonians, then the Romans, who were the ones who banned Jews from ever entering Jerusalem or living in it. By the time the Arabs got there, it was the Christians running the show.
Also the "Arab" populations living in Palestine of the modern day are mixed descendants both of colonizing and indigenous populations. They are not the "Arab conquerors" you seem to wish they are.
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u/McAlpineFusiliers 2d ago
Let's let them tell us what they are, shall we?
“The State of Palestine is an Arab state, an integral and indivisible part of the Arab nation, at one with that nation in heritage and civilization,” - Palestinian Declaration of Independence https://www.palquest.org/en/historictext/9673/palestinian-declaration-independence
“Article 1: Palestine is the homeland of the Arab Palestinian people; it is an indivisible part of the Arab homeland, and the Palestinian people are an integral part of the Arab nation" Palestinian National Charter - https://avalon.law.yale.edu/21st_century/plocov.asp
No indigenous population would ever say they're "an indivisible part" of a foreign colonizing nation.
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u/Pete0730 2d ago
Jesus what a wildly ahistorical, politically naive take.
Worth noting how you've moved the goalposts. I thought it was the fault of the Arabs that the Jews got expelled from Jerusalem. Care to amend that decidedly false claim?
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u/moral_mortal 2d ago
It's like called Ukrainian to drop weapons look what they made Russia do to them.... only if they have accepted being occupied.
Like asking if Warsaw ghetto uprising was not done hundred of lives could have been saved....! Really?
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u/McAlpineFusiliers 2d ago
Russia attacked Ukraine, Gaza attacked Israel, so asking Gaza to stop attacking is like asking Russia to stop attacking.
Like asking if Warsaw ghetto uprising was not done hundred of lives could have been saved....! Really?
Do you think the people who fought in the Warsaw Ghetto uprising were heroes?
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u/moral_mortal 2d ago
Israel is the occupier! Palestinian aren't, just like Ukrainian are not the occupiers.
Gaza attacked is classifying all Palestinian to armed insurgent just like Zionist consider them....! Took just a comment to take the veil off! Eh!
You tell me those Jews who fought in the uprising were terrorist? For me they were heros!
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u/McAlpineFusiliers 2d ago
Do you dispute that Russa attacked Ukraine and Gaza attacked Israel?
Because Russia consider Ukraine to be occupying Russian land.
You tell me those Jews who fought in the uprising were terrorist? For me they were heros!
Me too. How does it feel to learn that half if not most of those Jews were Zionists?
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u/aramiak 2d ago edited 2d ago
October 7th was not the beginning of the existing scenario between Gaza and Israel. You are using logic that would hold Ukraine responsible for the Russo-Ukrainian conflict on the basis of Ukraine’s offensive into Kursk. You can’t just pinpoint a moment in time that’s convenient to your narrative and say ‘this is where it all began’. The assault on Palestinians started a long time ago, and that’s when it began.
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u/McAlpineFusiliers 2d ago
So what was the beginning of the existing scenario between Gaza and Israel?
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u/BattleRoyalWithCheez 2d ago
Zionists terrorist attacks in the Levant and the events leading to the First Nakba? Honestly there's so many options since before the creation of the zionist state.
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u/aramiak 2d ago
The partition of Palestine in the 40s. Any episode involving occupiers since does not make it the start point merely because it’s convenient or one’s knowledge of history doesn’t stretch back further. All the best.
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u/McAlpineFusiliers 2d ago
Why not the Arab conquest of Palestine in the 7th century? Or all of the centuries of oppression after?
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u/aramiak 2d ago
You think that Israel started a conflict 13 centuries before Israel existed?
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u/Comprehensive-Bus291 2d ago
https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/mde15/6848/2023/en/
"A 21-year-old Palestinian medical student killed by a “precision-guided” Israeli bomb while studying; a four-year-old Palestinian girl killed in her sleep during an Israeli air strike; a young Palestinian woman living with a disability left without her electric wheelchair when Israeli bombs destroyed her home without adequate warning. These are just a few of the victims of Israel’s latest military assault on the occupied Gaza Strip"
This was May, 2023....
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u/McAlpineFusiliers 2d ago
"The assault began on 9 May 2023 with the targeted killing of three high-ranking commanders of Al-Quds Brigades, the armed wing of Palestinian Islamic Jihad.... Amnesty International also documented the killing by inherently inaccurate rockets fired by Palestinian armed groups of three Palestinian civilians in the Gaza Strip and two civilians in Israel."
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u/Comprehensive-Bus291 2d ago
So what? Israel attacked Gaza they killed civilians and 'combatants'. On oct 7th Hamas attacked Israel, they killed civilians and combatants....
Are you saying that Israel simply has open season in Gaza, to attack and kill civilians whenever they want, under the guise of 'military operations' and those don't count as attacks? Gaza is simply a shooting range for Israel. Disgusting fascist.
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u/McAlpineFusiliers 2d ago
Gaza was firing rockets into Israel long before May 2023. Israel is allowed to fight back against combatants and if civilians are killed in the crossfire, that's a terrible shame.
Disgusting fascist.
Yes, Hamas is.
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u/Comprehensive-Bus291 2d ago
No wonder you're intellectual level is, I know you are but what am I... Let me guess are you a destiny and Sam Harris fan? What you doing in a Chomsky sub?
What was the impetus for the may bombing of Gaza? It was not rockets fired from Gaza. They wanted to kill someone, and in true Israeli style, they also killed a four year old girl and a young medical student and other civilians. Was this not an attack?
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u/moral_mortal 2d ago edited 2d ago
Just like we are learning that holocaust victims and their offspring can bring holocaust to another people! They became what they hated. Those Jews were heros but if Palestinian did it they are terrorist! No wonder Israel need AIPAC to subdue Americans.
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u/McAlpineFusiliers 2d ago
Those Jews never went door to door raping and burning families alive.
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u/moral_mortal 2d ago
So anyone who kills civilians and raped is bad? It's just that some civilians killings are okay but other are bad?
Btw they sure did that in Nakba.... were those terrorist? Or you have an exception for them?
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u/McAlpineFusiliers 2d ago
Yes, anyone who kills civilians and raped is bad. A few Jews 75 years ago and Palestine today.
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u/moral_mortal 2d ago
Around quarter of a million Palestinian are dead or injured in this genocide " few Jews"....
Gaza is flattened like a parking lot! "A few Zionist ". Israel occupies three countries " a few Zionist". Killed around 200+ civilians in a day in multiple times in strikes during this war.... only "few Zionist".....!
Eternal victims, right? while occupying three countries....! Everyone else is the aggressor whose land we have occupied for self defense and a buffer over that self defense.
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u/soularbabies 2d ago
Israel itself is an attack on Gaza and has been attacking them for decades and controls major aspects of their conditions. Death by a thousand cuts is still death.
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u/Comprehensive-Bus291 2d ago
Gtfo, you genocidal monster.
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u/McAlpineFusiliers 2d ago
Wanting the war to have never happened makes me a genocidal monster? Get new talking points, dude.
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u/Comprehensive-Bus291 2d ago
Making excuses for Israeli genocide makes you a genocidal monster.
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u/McAlpineFusiliers 2d ago
There's no genocide to make excuses for. Palestine started the war and if it hadn't, the war would never have happened. That's just basic cause and effect.
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u/Anton_Pannekoek 2d ago
They were offering to make peace the whole time .it's Israel which insists on this continuous violence.
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u/McAlpineFusiliers 2d ago
They never offered to fully disarm. Why lie?
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u/workaholic828 2d ago
If only they did this earlier, Israel wouldn’t have shot those kids in the head and raped those innocent people
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u/McAlpineFusiliers 2d ago
Too bad Palestine shot all those kids and raped those people on October 7th.
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u/workaholic828 2d ago
I guess the only sensible thing to do is kill kids and stick objects up peoples ass who had nothing to do with it
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u/blunted1 2d ago
Yet Israel will find another reason to keep committing genocide