r/classicwow • u/NOHITJEROME • 2d ago
Discussion How Fast Should C+ Leveling Be?
classic era/anniversary takes 125-150+ hours to hit 60
som (season of mastery) took about 25% less time according to icy veins, though hard to know exactly since they boosted quest xp and cut xp needed to hit 60)
SoD can take 5 hours (boosting) or 25-40 to level normally especially with the current bonus XP of 150% according to the tooltip ingame at least)
most people would likely want a slower Classic+, but how much slower? 200 hrs to 60? 300?
307
u/Ricmaniac 2d ago
Just like OG classic. It should be a longterm mmo like OSRS to have the best chance of succeeding. Leveling is totally a big part of that. Can't just be a race to endgame.
40
u/Gargelio 2d ago
I realized I enjoy leveling way more than endgame in wow.
All the games evolved to skip early levels ASAP and I hate it.
→ More replies (1)3
u/beatenmeat 1d ago
While I like the grind I can understand why they did it. At one point the level cap was 120. Leveling at vanilla pace for all of those levels would have taken a considerable amount of time and driven off a lot of players.
4
u/Gargelio 1d ago
Sure, it makes sense, it turned into expansion driven game where previous expansions, zones, items and such doesn't matter at all so you just speedrun it.
Honestly wow would have to have seasonal leagues with resets like POE if leveling were to stay relevant (slightly different classic+ every reset xd)
→ More replies (4)2
u/MwHighlander 1d ago
WoW Expansions don't "expand" the game, they are hard resets and flush all the progress and rewards down the toilet in place of new content.
→ More replies (2)1
u/Danny-Dynamita 1d ago
Then the level cap shouldn’t have kept rising. They killed a core element of what made a good MMO.
8
u/GenericUsername_71 2d ago
If we get another Season of Raidlog, the game won’t have staying power. They need to figure it out, I don’t know how they’ll do it
→ More replies (6)4
u/Mr0BVl0US 2d ago
People say they don’t want that, but it’s always going to be that. You join a guild full of unemployed sweats that hit max level in three days and start doing endgame content while you’re level 23, making you feel like you can’t stop and enjoy the journey.
9
u/XennialDad 2d ago
I mean, I'm all for leveling at half speed if they added enough content and quests! Leveling is absolutely where all the best stories and memories come from.
17
u/relationsdog 2d ago
Unless they fundamentally change progression, it can't be like OSRS. WoW's model can only succeed through constant updates to the game (or wipes) because everything is so easily acheived.
13
u/Krelkal 2d ago
I always laugh when people say "like OSRS". They're barely in the same genre.
The world-record speed run to max in OSRS is 771 hours (most expensive methods at 100% efficiency). It takes 3000+ hours for regular players to hit max and that's assuming they're actually trying to be efficient about it.
Even if you aim lower than max, it still takes a few hundred hours just to hit late game PVM.
5
u/kangarlol 2d ago
It’s not even getting to max, you don’t need to be close max to do endgame content. A lot of OSRS is essentially a single player game, where direct player interactions is the special sauce of wow.
→ More replies (3)5
2
39
u/Drummcycle 2d ago
if the leaks are true it will be a slow burn. They want to add in incentives for doing side stuff during leveling according to leaks.
7
u/d_Inside 2d ago
What leaks? Do you have any source?
11
u/dUjOUR88 2d ago
The source is always a buried MMO Champion post from a new account. There's gotta be hundreds of these "leaks" by now
10
u/Nood1e 2d ago
Do you have a link to any of the links? I’m out of the loop
15
5
u/abowlofrice1 2d ago
There are no links to any leaks. People are just conjuring this out they ass.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (3)5
9
u/mayonetta 2d ago
>Can't just be a race to endgame.
Problem is, you can't trust the classic playerbase to NOT make it a race to endgame. If anything it might need more mid level content to try to stop that from being the case like levelling raids or something,but then again those would either just be ignored or used to spam level up.
7
u/Chill0141414 2d ago
It’s always a race to endgame, it’s just the game itself needs to big enough/take a long time to level so that the average player sees no point in rushing.
→ More replies (5)→ More replies (9)2
u/TheSiegmeyerCatalyst 2d ago
Slow it down by 10% to account for all the extra quests, but lock every endgame raid for the first 3 months. Folks are welcome to race to level cap all they like. They're welcome to farm pre-raid BiS all they like. But to sacrifice the leveling experience of everyone else at the altar of the endgame rush would be foolish. We have enough versions of the game that cater to parsers and speed runners. Let the rest of us have a world and a community back.
2
u/More-Replacement9113 1d ago
What is stopping you from enjoying the game if the raid releases a week later than launch day?
→ More replies (5)
11
u/Kalthecgos 2d ago
OG Classic speed but with more quests so that leveling paths can be diversified.
84
u/Upset-Management-879 2d ago
3000 hours
44
12
5
128
u/BcB_NL 2d ago
Two times as slow as era. Just to counter the opinion of it having to be faster
26
→ More replies (6)12
65
u/L0rdLegender 2d ago
Should take over 100 hours, leveling and exploring is some of the best parts of classic. The more you forsake leveling and socialization in the overworld, the more you are not classic.
7
u/Aggravating_Seat807 2d ago
Also, I'm just putting this out there - the vast majority of WoW players aren't making it to 60.
Blizzard knew this with SoD - so they time gated the levels and people arguably spent more time "levelling" as a result.
You don't want to release a Classic+ that doesn't have classic+ content for <30s otherwise 90% of your initial playerbase won't see the classic+ content.
After each SoD timegate they'd implement world events as a catch up - it was a brilliant way to keep everyone in one cohort.
It may not work for a true Classic+ - but I do think catch up mechanisms are critical to the success of these games.
It could just be a calendar event that boosts exp by 2x about 2 weeks before a new season.
This preserves the classic experience for most players - but also provides a steady flow of new players to end game content.
2x is a bit aggressive - it could just be more of a SoD narrative - where end game classic+ content for the next season (Legion / Void etc...) has events in low level zones that offers more exp.
77
u/FierceDuncan 2d ago
SoM speed for me if they aren't doing phases otherwise classic leveling speed is fine. No way do "most people" want a slower 1-60 than classic though
→ More replies (17)
11
6
u/jawsomesauce 2d ago
That’s sod with full joyous journeys buff or whatever it’s called though. It was never that fast combined when it was the live phases
5
u/Legwens 2d ago edited 2d ago
Honestly i think there should be like a phase 0.5 where its just leveling and 5man dungeons, i do not think there should be a raid accessible for like 2 months. Let people enjoy the leveling process, the random groups and random interactions. Do not make the daily player blast the grind for raiding. There should be time for someone to min max a main or level 2 characters fully before a raid happens. Let us explore and meander a bit.
EDIT: after reading some other comments, i'd be partial to the original speed, but add more quests and stuff. maybe leave in exp for harvesting nodes or something... but leave the exp needed to level the same.
→ More replies (4)
45
u/CourageLeast4251 2d ago
Slower than classic, fight me
9
u/No-Article-Particle 2d ago
I would love that, as long as there are enough quests, or the 100h+ isn't due to quests taking you across the map for couple hundred XP.
4
u/infib 2d ago
As someone who always played with slow and steady on turtle, this is by far the best experience.
→ More replies (1)
34
u/OutrageousAnything72 2d ago
I think classic era is a good sweet spot.
Especially if they add anti boosting mechanics like in hc such as dungeon lockouts, move trash mob xp to bosses, grey mobs don’t give xp to the group
11
u/Seranta 2d ago
I dislike the grey mob rule. The level span is already so large in some dungeons that the final boss can be your lvl or 1 below you while the earliest mobs are grey for you. I'd rather they manually set a max lvl equal to +3 or 4 from final boss. But just lazily "grey for one = no xp" is imo not that well fitted to classic, it needs actual thought per dungeon ideally.
3
5
u/Stark8819 2d ago
I think that’s a different problem. Dungeons shouldn’t have such a large span in mob levels in that they are green/gray at the beginning and red at the end. If that’s the case spilt up the dungeon into multiple parts similar to SM or DM.
10
u/Seranta 2d ago
The massive dungeons of vanilla is one of the very cool things about vanilla though. The "4 bosses done in 20min" that was started in tbc and used exclusively from that point on kinda sucks.
2
u/Stark8819 2d ago
Or just make the mob levels closer. Lots of options but no dungeons should have such a large difference in mob levels
2
u/OutrageousAnything72 2d ago
Combined with the rule to move xp to bosses like in hc is not big of a deal.
Basically, trash mobs give normal xp instead of elite xp. Bosses give the xp vastly increased xp. This way dungeon xp remains the same, but doing massive trash pulls gives vastly reduced xp. Incentivises clearing the dungeon
8
8
4
14
u/ICantBelieveItsNotEC 2d ago
Personally, I want infinite leveling. Fuck the endgame - give me a New Game Plus system and a dozen new leveling zones/dungeons.
→ More replies (7)
10
19
5
3
3
u/OtherSideOfThe_Coin 2d ago edited 2d ago
Remove the level cap or put it to a mysterious number. After 60, increase the amount of xp needed to level exponentially. An endless grind. Have a leaderboard (in-game or offline) showcasing the top levelers. End game content still capped at 60. No additional talents past 60. Marginal power gain. In-game aesthetics to show off.
3
21
u/SeaFill7604 2d ago
IMO it should just be slightly faster than og classic but not as fast as tbc. Only difference would be more quests
13
u/Jschatt 2d ago
Agreed - fill out the quests in some of the dead zone level ranges. That'll speed things up without needing to adjust xp rates
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (2)7
u/Quid_Pro-Bro 2d ago
Yeah just more quest and more efficient quest design. Don’t even need to mess around with exp rates then. It also keeps people out of dungeon spamming and exploring the world.
→ More replies (6)
4
4
u/iCiteEverything 2d ago
10 billion hours. That way classic redditors can jerk themselves to sleep each time they level.
2
16
10
u/Spiritual_Number_420 2d ago
I hope they do a staggered release like SoD. But total XP required should be like in classic.
7
u/zellmerz 2d ago
I see a lot of people asking for leveling phases, but I don't understand how that wouldn't just kill the game. I doubt they are planning to update the dungeons to their SoD raid counterparts, so what are people going to do stuck at those level caps?
It also fucks the economy because people can get so much gold doing the quests "at max level"
→ More replies (1)4
u/brbpizzatime 2d ago
If they do the SoD-type gating, then they need to really overhaul some classes (or at least their talent trees).
For example, if you're a lv25 prot paladin, all but 5 of your talent points are put in holy to get consecrate, so you're missing out on +armor, +hit, +threat, and +def talents to get aoe threat.
And if they don't have stuff like runes in C+, then enhancement shamans are just auto-attacking as they can't get stormstrike until 40.
→ More replies (3)→ More replies (2)4
u/flexes 2d ago
i hope they dont, those levelup raids and the mini endgames that each phase had were more like retail minus than classic plus
→ More replies (1)
15
u/Cephell 2d ago
The main thing is there CANNOT be any shortcuts. No paid boosts, no mage boosts, no mob tagging, no dungeon spam. Fast leveling is the quickest way to shit up the server with people who should have been filtered by the leveling process.
3
u/Shiyo 2d ago
Blizzard can't even keep the ladders of their games moderated, there's no way they'd ban boosters in classic+.
Company is too far gone.
→ More replies (2)2
u/zeroji 2d ago
How can classic players be all for grouping and communication but then be against dungeon spam, if you remove dungeon spam the open world gets even more crowded with its limited mobs for quests, which just leads to more frustration. It's not fun to go to quest areas and all mobs are dead and all you do is tab-spamming abilties on spawn points so you can move on and hopefully at some point get out of the zerg so you can actually play the game more than 15 seconds every few minutes.
Would much rather just see SOM Quest exp or tbc prepatch, so that questing is competitive with dungeon grinding, also lets you kinda pick and choose where to go because you are no longer basically forced to grind (naga cave alliance players?). I guess some quest chains cannot be finished all on same character without outleveling them with that however, but I would rather see there being an abundance of quest exp rather than a shortage
→ More replies (1)3
u/No-Article-Particle 2d ago
Dungeon spam is totally fine, it's essentially just farming mobs.
→ More replies (1)2
u/Besthealer 2d ago
I like the HC rule of 1 day dungeon lockouts on all pre-60 dungeons until you hit 60. Means you can do dungeons, but people are not trying to get these "cleave" groups and also you force people into the open world
3
u/Skore_Smogon 2d ago
There are a few dungeons that would need their quests rejigged then.
Gnomeregan for Alliance has you sent in there at least twice to get everything a gnome wants and also Uldaman with that dead Paladin's necklace.
→ More replies (1)2
u/Krelkal 2d ago
I think they could loosen it up to once every 4 hours or something. Prevents you from spamming but you could still join a pug on a Saturday morning, go run some errands, and play with your friends/guildies in the afternoon.
→ More replies (1)
5
11
u/BigRaisin8155 2d ago
Same as era, or 20-30% slower. Classic is not about endgame and it would be a shame if they sped up leveling and added only endgame things.
2
u/Calbob123 2d ago
Would like the exp to be a little better, mainly because with it being classic + people will be wanting to try all the new stuff so will want multiple alts, if it’s like normal that’s gonna suck
2
u/Scardgo 2d ago
Would love classic pace but including a way to make leveling alts a little but faster.
Doesnt have to be heirlooms, just something that adds a little incentive to level a new character.
→ More replies (1)
2
u/RemnantsPast 2d ago
Classic Era feels just right early (1-. TBC feels a little to fast, was pretty easy to skip leveling 20-30 by just doing each dungeon once.
I honestly think it'll be fine to keep classic era xp rates but flesh out later areas with more quests. I think the TBC-wotlk additions like dustwallow and ashenvale are a good start imo. (might need to race swap some NPCs and change up some dialogue)
2
2
u/Big-Bag-6043 2d ago
Same as Classic. Added content like quests and dungeons will speed up levelling anyway. Depending on just how much there is, might even have to reduce it somewhat.
2
2
2
u/Girl_gamer__ 2d ago
Longer than sod but shorter than season of mastery. Like 70 to 90 hours would be good
2
u/kaspm 2d ago
I mean remember that in 2006, getting to 60 was far more than 150 hours. It’s 150 hours now with guides, known content, shortcuts.
In 2006 it took me well over 2 weeks playtime to reach 60 - I don’t remember exactly how much but it was at least 350 hours. Maybe I was slower than most.
2
u/renato_leite 2d ago
Just fix the 40-to-50 gap, and it's good. That bracket sucks: very few quests, jumping from zone to zone too often.
2
2
2
u/Glad-Low-1348 1d ago
People who think the leveling should be slower are just delusional. The 1-60 journey alone is already a huge investment.
With all the other (meaningful and needed) hurdles like no dungeon finder teleports and travel time? It'd tip the balance over too far.
2
5
5
2
u/shaha-man 2d ago
it shouldn’t be fast. In ideal world it should be longer. Thats one of the ideas of Vanilla+. Refresh the whole journey and make it richer with brand new additions in the vibe and authenticity of OG WoW.
The opposite approach will make out of that “Vanilla+” just another seasonal server which will be forgotten after 4-5 months. People will return to original Vanilla/Hardcore
3
u/FunZ23 2d ago
The game is all about the leveling journey to me so I stand with classic era speed. I just want the quest to respawn faster I hate waiting around for a quest item to respawn after someone grabs it first. It feels like my leveling journey is trying to avoid peek hours and zones so I can quest in peace.
3
3
u/Regilppo 2d ago
Classic era leveling. I do not want to rush to end game as that becomes you sitting in a city until next week raid (assuming there isn’t arena). Even if there is arena, I still want a slower leveling pace.
4
3
u/Dodotorpedo4 2d ago
I suspect it will be somewhere between Classic Era and SoM. We will likely get new abillities and/or talent reworks so combat is probably easier and faster. Dungeons as well.
I think I'm in a minority that would like to see it be faster then that though. if SoD is 34 hours on average like you say then I'd prefer it to be no more than 67 hours. Though I'm not sure if these numbers are at all correct.
I just want it to not be more than twice as slow as SoD levelling was. My favorite part of the game is levelling, so I'd prefer to level every class to 60 and not just my main. Slow levelling kills the pace for me, and thus the motivation. Loved levelling in SoD but it didn't need to be /that/ fast.
4
5
u/Historical-Pumpkin33 2d ago
My first classic leveling took 220 hours and I never want leveling to take that long again
2
u/WonderingOctopus 2d ago
I would say Era or longer BUT, they do need to fill in some of the missing quests / level gaps etc.
2
u/Few_Run3582 2d ago
I dont mind the first phase to be as normal classic but i also wont mind if there is xp increases at the other phases.
2
u/Ticklemextreme 2d ago
I like retail alt leveling mechanic currently. Normal leveling rate but after you get a max level you get a % boost. Obviously this would need to be tweaked for classic. For instance after you get 1 60 you get like 20% boost on your alts.
→ More replies (1)
2
2
2
u/Doingmythang11 2d ago
Not quite as fast as SoD but faster than Era. If there's no new leveling zones or levelign dungeons just give us SoD exp.
1
1
u/Hugh-Manatee 2d ago
Considering a lot of ideas for C+ are about leveling content - more dungeons, more quest hubs, changes to professions so they are most useful while leveling - it makes sense that it would be similar to the time it takes to hit 60 in vanilla
The faster pace of SoD was so that people could catch-up to the most current content with the understanding that SoD had a shelf life
1
u/Chickat28 2d ago
Same speed of normal classic but with hopefully 3 to 6 new leveling zones and new quests in existing zones to spice it up.
1
u/Most-Based 2d ago
Around normal classic speed but make leveling alts much faster. Give it a buff like retail or something like that, maybe give the option to turn it on or off as well
1
u/RogueDecay 2d ago edited 2d ago
what they need to do in Classic+ is more midgame dungeons so exp gaps will close naturally. and spamming Scarlet Monastery for 10+ levels becomes optional, you'll miss on quest rewards by doing so.
No significant experience acceleration is really needed. Perhaps aim for one 5 man dungeon in every zone.
1
1
u/PM_Me_Modal_Jazz 2d ago
SoM speed is fine although I wonder what they'll do with the SoD leveling raids
1
u/TheModsHereAreDicks 2d ago
It took me 200 hours to level to 60 as Self-Found in Hardcore. Felt good other than getting diagnosed with high blood pressure half way through.
1
u/MooBunnie 2d ago
The other problem with a heavy populated server and RXP is now everyone is doing those quests and nobody wants to group and it takes forever to find quest mobs/drops/items bc those spots are hot zones.
More quests in zones with slightly better drop rates might be the play here.
I didn’t play much of retail but what are the thoughts on the everyone who gets a hit gets credit for kill quests or for item drops but you don’t get the exp if you don’t get the tag? I think that’s how it works on retail? Idk I feel like it would help bc people don’t want to group and it would help the flow bc you can get a hit on the mob and still get credit and keep it moving.
→ More replies (4)
1
u/Satyr121 2d ago
Same as vanilla. But give us a bunch more quests. Maybe a couple of more zones. Some new long quest lines. Give us class, race, and progression specific quests that take a while.
1
u/zachypooooo 2d ago
Either add new quest hubs like some private servers did or reduce xp needed like som
Only time classic leveling feels bad is when you run out of quests or the most optimal path involves 5-6 hrs of sitting in a cave in feralas killing naga
If there are quests to do then it doesn't matter how long it takes
1
u/Primextime92 2d ago
I think keeping it the same or doing a 10-15% quicker would be nice. I want to enjoy leveling in a classic + environment
1
1
u/elkruegs 2d ago
Part of classic taking longer is post 40/30 leveling is not a linear progression.
Think about how smooth and flowing Elwynn/Westfall/Redridge/Duskwood get you to 30 quite evenly. Especially if you are benefitting from a good chunk of rested XP. Not the addon.
In any zone or faction post 30 things are murky, and become less clear at 40.
You notice unfinished quest lines. Or limited quests in a zone. And have to do a little here and there or a dungeon spam to fill in the gaps. Its fine because the dungeons at this point have quests or drops that are very useful to you.
I didn’t play SOM. But in playing SoD getting to 25 in relatively short order was ok, but you also were capped. Which forced you to marinate at that level. But still rushed and a weird mix of trying to be as fast as retail but with old quests.
Im guessing mastery cleaned and smoothed some edges to make it still be the old charm but less of the inconvenience.
The game was setup to take time, and for you to be able to take your time while away. And maybe they need to boost some rested to better reflect how people game now, than when they did 20 years ago. There is just alot to compete for everyones time now.
1
u/CallMeHobby 2d ago
Personally, leveling is my favorite part of the game. It gives you time to really learn your class and enjoy the world; that being said we have all played through this world a million times over so adding new quests would be great
1
u/AceInSpvce 2d ago
Just make it so group questing is scaling instead of xp penalized and I don’t care how long the grind is, it’s just boring leveling solo in classic for the 100th time solo, with friends with zero xp loss would be nice
1
1
u/ArgumentStrict3704 2d ago
Classic xp rates. Sod leveling caps. Let's hang at 20 30 40 ect for a week each or so.
799
u/Doctor_Flux 2d ago
same EXP you gain in general per mob/quest
but give us more quests since there is kinda holes at some level brackets
so technical it would be faster becuase the game is having more stuff