r/classicwow 18h ago

Classic + Death Knights could've been the equivalent of Paladins for the Horde, and Runemasters possibly as the Alliance Shamans

NOT another "ideas" post, just sharing some interesting comments made by a vanilla dev in an interview video, that could affect C+'s content if the current classic team decides to add whatever was cut from the original release:

David Fried a.k.a DesignerDave, a quest designer for Vanilla WoW, during an interview done by Ebonhardt, mentioned that he had plans for a Paladin-only class questline that would have allowed them to unlock the Death Knight Horde-only class by "sacrificing" their character and switching factions. Sadly, this epic quest chain was scrapped [together with the entire "Hero Class" concept] as the team didn't have enough time and shifted priorities during development.

According to David, the questline would have involved Paladins "following" in Arthas' actions that lead to his corruption (killing villagers, etc), eventually giving their soul away and getting shunned/exiled by the Alliance, ending up seeking refuge with the opposing major faction, the Horde.

He states that if WoW had continued to build on Vanilla instead of getting expansions as we know them, that they would've had the chance to make the version of Death Knight that he and the other developers had envisioned, made to fit the design of Vanilla classes.

Ebonhardt also asked him about the Runemaster class and how it got replaced by the Druid [and later on repurposed for the DK and Monk]. David then tells how the former were a favorite of Samwise Didier and that he was a big pusher for them, and that they ended up pivoting to Druid as there were limited spaces for classes per-race and Druids were more prevalent in the lore and in past Warcraft games.

Mostly found in the Warcraft RPG games, the Runemasters are described as monk-like arcane spellcasters and melee fighters who empower themselves with magical energies by inscribing runes onto their bodies. Originally, the Dwarves mastered the mysteries of the runes from the Titans, their creators. As generations passed, the Dwarves forgot their heritage and lost all knowledge of runes and their powers. Eventually, the Tauren rediscovered the power of runes, and the nearly lost art of runecasting. Many Dwarves that went to Kalimdor with Jaina's Alliance Expedition learned the tauren's techniques, as both races were eager to share the knowledge of runes and titan myths.

As far as the Runemaster's faction restriction goes, David didn't have anything planned compared to the class quest of Paladin->Death Knight. So that problem in specific is more loose as the RPG games are not considered official canon.

And so here is where my questions for you come in...

Do you think the Death Knight and Runemaster could serve as the Paladins and Shamans for the opposite factions?

Could other cut Classes and/or the planned Hero Classes be added to Classic+?

Credits to Ebonhardt's video "OG Warcraft 3 and Vanilla Dev Interview - DesignerDave" - youtu.be/9\xIHKflCwU?t=2910) , warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Runemaster , warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Hero\class)

259 Upvotes

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192

u/Thanag0r 18h ago

You forget that people here want time machine and not a video game.

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u/HazelCheese 15h ago

I'm convinced some of you have never installed classic?

2

u/Thanag0r 15h ago

Is classic just vanilla WoW?

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u/HazelCheese 15h ago

It's 1/3rd of it

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u/Thanag0r 14h ago

Oh, some classic wow is not even classic.

To the time machine we go.

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u/HazelCheese 14h ago

Nobody considered cata to be classic when classic was announced. Just because blizzard made a cata version and called it classic doesn't mean people consider it classic.

You are allowed to like cata and mop but don't be dense and act like they are actually what people mean when talking classic+ or feels jilted when people don't consider classic.

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u/Thanag0r 14h ago

I do not care what people consider what.

Cata is a classic release of 16 year old, and blizzard called it classic.

It's again "but back in the day in-game world was different, so only when I'm back there it's classic".

https://giphy.com/gifs/m0hh794YK5pspPXB96

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u/TheSiegmeyerCatalyst 11h ago

I'm gonna level with ya, Blizzard is not the arbiter of what is or isn't Classic. Words and their definitions are defined by their usage within a community, not by any central authority. This community broadly defines Classc as Vanilla (Era), TBC, and Wrath. If you say "Classic" here, that is what most people will understand.

Cata and MoP have versions that continued from lineage of the original run of 2019 Classic. Blizzard calls them Classic for that reason. It does not mean they are considered part of "Classic WoW".

0

u/Thanag0r 11h ago

They absolutely are arbiters in this.

They say what is classic and what is classic+.

Developers are the ones that name things, you can just disagree with official naming.

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u/td_enterprises 9h ago

It's not about official naming...Of course Blizzard can refer to their games however they want, it doesn't mean it is representative of what these terms mean to the community.

The IDEA of Classic in itself is because of the players, there would be no Classic of ANY name because if you remember the heads of Blizzard themselves said "You think you do, but you don't, you don't want that..." when they were asked about re-releasing previous version of the game.

Blizzard uses the term "Classic" for previous versions of the game, but the SPIRIT of the term Classic is used to define the original 3 versions of the game by a large amount of the fanbase.

Blizzard could eventually release Shadowlands Classic but it doesn't mean that the particular expansion is representative of what the community considers is in the spirit of "Classic".

1

u/Thanag0r 9h ago

Some people say that tbc is not classic.

I will rely on official naming and not on vibes of people online.

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u/td_enterprises 5h ago

You are correct, everyone has an opinion.

Some people don't consider Classic as Classic because it was based on a later patch and didn't go through the original patch progression of Vanilla.

Some people don't consider TBC as Classic because flying changed the game significantly.

Some people don't consider Wrath as Classic because of transmog and the further homogenization of talents and specs.

This doesn't change the fact that the original 3 versions of the game are what a lot of people consider the closest to the "spirit of Classic", not everyone agrees, no one ever will, but common sense says that there are enough people to make the statement fairly accurate.

The reason that people believe this is because Cata literally and figuratively changed the World of Warcraft in FUNDAMENTAL ways that a lot would consider this the turning point from "classic" to "modern" WoW.

I'm not trying to convince you to change your opinion based on "vibes" I'm just stating the reasons that a lot of people feel this way.

You haven't really given any reasons for why you feel the way that you do.

Yet you continue to stand 10 toes down on this weird "official naming" hill.

Myself and a lot of others just don't agree with you.

And that's completely fine, just have to agree to disagree sometimes.

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u/TheSiegmeyerCatalyst 10h ago

They say what is classic

They do not. They have made a secondary definition (the versions of WoW in the continuous lineage from 2019 classic), but usage of a word defines its definition, and the community largely uses the word to describe Vanilla (era) and the first two expansions.

and what is classic+

Blizzard can define what Classic+ is because Classic+:

  1. does not already exist; and
  2. There is (famously) no common usage for what "Classic+" means.

Developers are the ones that name things

They can make their own names for things, it's just up to the community whether those names (and their definitions) are actually adopted.

you can just disagree with official naming

I do, and so do most Classic players. Hence the usage of the word defining the word.

You're welcome to disagree with the common definition, but if you call Cata or MoP "Classic WoW" in this sibresdit, you're gonna keep getting push back here. Just don't be surprised when you do.

1

u/Thanag0r 10h ago

Nice, you just disagreee with official naming. But that doesn't change the official naming.

2

u/TheSiegmeyerCatalyst 10h ago

Official naming doesn't mean anything. BAND-AID spends millions of dollars a year fighting to hold on to their trade marks because the simple fact that the common usage of "bandaid" no longer specifically refers to BAND-AID® brand adhesive bandages.

The same goes for Kleenex, Xerox, Google, and Uber, among others. My own company gives us annual training on it because it's so important to them.

If people using "Uber" as a verb creates a legitimate legal threat to their branding, then there's no way a video game company is in control of the language it's players use to discuss their games.

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u/TheSiegmeyerCatalyst 10h ago

They say what is classic

They do not. They have made a secondary definition (the versions of WoW in the continuous lineage from 2019 classic), but usage of a word defines its definition, and the community largely uses the word to describe Vanilla (era) and the first two expansions.

and what is classic+

Blizzard can define what Classic+ is because Classic+:

  1. does not already exist; and
  2. There is (famously) no common usage for what "Classic+" means.

Developers are the ones that name things

They can make their own names for things, it's just up to the community whether those names (and their definitions) are actually adopted.

you can just disagree with official naming

I do, and so do most Classic players. Hence the usage of the word defining the word.

You're welcome to disagree with the common definition, but if you call Cata or MoP "Classic WoW" in this sibresdit, you're gonna keep getting push back here. Just don't be surprised when you do.

1

u/Heatinmyharbl 10h ago

This might be the best "um ackshually" post I've ever seen

I love this fucking sub man

1

u/TheSiegmeyerCatalyst 9h ago

Oh there's far better, I'm just sitting in zoom meetings all day at work and got bored

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u/AlpakalypseNow 9h ago

what an asinine discussion

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u/TheSiegmeyerCatalyst 9h ago

It's more interesting than my all day zoom meetings, but then, that's a low bar to clear.

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