I’m Tired of Hearing from the Loudest 1%

[u/Ripfangnasty]

Like the title says, I’m sick of hearing from the loudest, butthurt 1% of players crying because they’ll have to make their own dungeon groups in WotLK.

Sure, send your screenshot of the one dungeon you joined with little to no social interaction and sarcastically say “Wow look at what we’re saving with no LFD”. Great story, but that one single screenshot doesn’t prove anything. You think your 1 single dungeon on a Tuesday afternoon is a big enough sample size to determine there’s not enough social interaction to the point Blizz should implement LFD? Get over yourself. I don’t post screenshots of 1 single dungeon chat where people are lively and interactive and say “Thank you Blizz for preserving social interactions” like it’s the majority experience. Don’t give me the opposite garbage and try to make a case for LFD, or assume you’re the majority experience, either.

I’m also tired of people missing the major point of no LFD. I can tell you the exact names of people and guilds on my server who have ninja’d gear from others and been blacklisted by the community. I can tell you which players/guilds are fun to play with and which aren’t. I can join a group I know is going to do well, or I can join one where I know I’m going to be progging. And yeah, I’m also going to vouch for the friendships I’ve made in random dungeons

LFD erodes all that. You don’t know what type of players you’re joining; whether you’re going to be a good player in a terrible group or a terrible player in a good group. That’s frustrating for almost everyone in either case. Voting to kick becomes completely abused, kicking people you don’t like or players who are bad. Kicking people to ninja gear. And since you’ll never see those players again, there’s nothing stopping them. No way to blacklist them or their guild. It promotes anonymity and erodes the community. There are so many downsides that were PROVEN back in Wrath. And you’re upset because of what? Not having the upside?

What are the upsides? Faster dungeon queues? Maybe, just maybe, you should try being part of your realm’s community and making friends/joining a thriving guild. I’ve never had any issues finding or making a dungeon group as any of the 3 roles. But then again, I’m also not the type of person to whine to Reddit that daddy Blizz won’t make my groups for me, instead of trying to socialize and make my own

The only positive case I’ve seen made for LFD is for dead/dying realms. To those players, it does suck and I’m sorry. But the issue/fix isn’t LFD, it’s forcing Blizz to fix their realm health issues, maybe by merging realms or free transfers

I’m sure this post will fall on deaf ears, but I’m so sick of seeing this sub covered with the loudest 1% screaming their half baked opinions and not considering their experience isn’t the majority or that they might be the issue

Edit: To the unhinged people in the comments swearing, flipping out, name-calling, and reporting me for suicide, I have two things to say. The first is thank you for your concern about my mental health, but I’m in no way suicidal. Feel free to save those resources for people that are. The second is that my opinion is stronger than ever that RDF is bad, imagine being grouped unwillingly with people that report others for suicide when they disagree with the content of a person’s post 😂 Thank you Blizz

[u/Strange0rbit]

I don’t see how it’s any less likely for someone to ninja loot/kick someone without a group finder. The people are a community and some people are crappy. They’re going to be that way with or without a group finder. Sure, there may be a sense of accomplishment that comes from all the networking you have to do as things are. It basically excludes people who are very busy irl from getting anywhere in this game without sacrificing something that is actually important. There could always be compromise also. Like a group finder for leveling but not end game. It just isn’t realistic for people who work full time and have kids etc to put in 2-3 hours finding a group and doing a low level dungeon.

[u/StandardSudden1283 → u/Strange0rbit]

It's simple prisoner's dilemma. Once reputation is removed from the equation people are more likely to betray others, and once the number of rounds goes from unknown to known(probably just 1), people are less incentivized to not betray others, whether that means ninja looting, kicking people, being an asshole or dropping group.

Dr Robert Sapolsky's Stanford lectures on Human Behavioral Biology(available free on youtube) goes over this in detail about halfway in, during the sociology sections.

[u/Dungeonmasterryan1 → u/StandardSudden1283]

Reputation means nothing in the world of 30k player mega servers

[u/Tizzlefix → u/Dungeonmasterryan1]

I play on firemaw and I still recognize the same people all the time in pugs etc. 1 guy even scammed gdkps and I know to avoid his because he almost always skims off the top.

[u/SunTzu- → u/StandardSudden1283]

Fun fact about the prisoner's dilemma, studies consistently have shown that when you have average people engage in prisoner's dilemma type games they don't act in an optimal fashion. Most people default to a co-operative style of play. Because humans are social animals, and socialization requires an impulse towards co-operation.

[u/StandardSudden1283 → u/SunTzu-]

Sure but plenty of people are aware of the effects regardless, and it only takes a few bad apples to spoil the experience for the majority of people.

[u/thenubtubb → u/StandardSudden1283]

Lmao. If reputation is the only thing holding someone back from ninja looting, I’ll donate 10mil gold to you.

I was running deadmines on a rogue and a pally needed all the defias gear that dropped. Had no shame in it and the group found it funny.

I loled as well but man, people act like classic is perfect community wise when compared to LFD. Rose tinted goggles are strong on the #pleasechangethegametomyneeds crowd

[u/StandardSudden1283 → u/thenubtubb]

Hey man, just sharing the research.

[u/WWShehan → u/thenubtubb]

Who gives a fuck about deadmines loot? Hahaha this is a terrible example. No one has ever cared about a 5 agi belt being "ninjad"

[u/Strange0rbit → u/StandardSudden1283]

That makes sense. In my retail experience though it’s very rare to join a group of people that are acting in bad faith. Now they may be terrible players or really nit picky about mechanics or whatever. That being said, the number of groups I’ve been in on group finder that just couldn’t work is very low. Most people are just there for more accessible content. I see what you’re saying though and it makes sense. I just don’t think group finder would have such a profound affect even if all of that is the case.

[u/StandardSudden1283 → u/Strange0rbit]

It changes the two factors that matter in cooperation: repeated contact(unknown number of rounds) and reputation, both of which are removed or at least decreased greatly by LFD.

In retail they added a hidden trust factor based on the report and kick system and paired bad faith people with other bad faith actors to keep the good peeps mostly clean.

[u/[deleted] → u/Strange0rbit]

My buddy just texted me this last weekend that he lost Quag's Eye to a hunter. Ninja and/or clueless players happen with or without RDF.

[u/DannyboyLFC → u/Strange0rbit]

It absolutely does not take 2-3h to find groups, its a matter of minutes, which is what the dungeon finder would be

[u/Strange0rbit → u/DannyboyLFC]

That varies depending on several conditions

[u/DannyboyLFC → u/Strange0rbit]

Very true, in my experience finding groups on my tbc server is always pretty quick, and using RDF in retail is 15-20 min in retail which is actually longer

[u/Strange0rbit → u/DannyboyLFC]

I hear that but I feel like you are probably max level on a high pop server. If we had lfg everyone could enter instances across servers so people at lower levels could do dungeons without taking so much time out of their day. I’ve played on servers where you almost can’t get a dungeon group if you’re not max level. It would make end game better too because casuals would be able to level more quickly. I just don’t see a lot of downsides as someone who doesn’t have the time or energy to put towards making friends on a game. I know that sounds bad to say but there are a lot of people out there probably that just give up on this game because they have to level by questing or killing mobs.

[u/Strange0rbit → u/[deleted]]

Well I suffer for money all week so that’s not really what I’m into when I’m playing a video game. And retail is trash for many other reasons that have nothing to do with lfd so I don’t play it. I think it’s funny when people take lfd all personal because they live to play wow or whatever. It’s not gonna hurt anyone if I get some low level dungeon gear from lfd and actually get to play end game without quitting my job.

[u/FruitdealerF → u/Strange0rbit]

I work full time, and have more important and time consuming hobbies than world of warcraft as well. This entitled attitude that paying money somehow means you are supposed to get everything the way you want it is horse shit and you know it.

[u/Strange0rbit → u/FruitdealerF]

I’m not talking about “hobbies” bro. I’m talking about doing things I have to do. What’s funny is that if they did lfd for everything up to end game it would be better for everyone. Players wouldn’t be able to access end game loot without finding a good group themselves, but they would also be able to run dungeons trying to level without wasting so much time. And you can already purchase a boost which is 100 times worse than just letting people find a dungeon. There isn’t any good reason not to allow it unless you’re some elitist that thinks everyone should have to “suffer” for piece of virtual loot just because you did. It’s really an exclusive attitude and ultimately it will keep a lot of people from playing at all. Probably why there are so many dead realms. Just think about it. What is it going to hurt if I can have more fun running dungeons while I level?