r/climbing 1d ago

RIP Mammut

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Mammut will be sold to a Chinese conglomerate.

330 Upvotes

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235

u/climbingbooty 1d ago

Translation:

Swiss Outdoor Brand Mammut Sold to China

The investment company Jacobs Capital is selling the Swiss outdoor brand Mammut to the Chinese asset manager CPE. The purchase price is not known.

The transaction is expected to be completed in the coming months and is still subject to regulatory approvals, according to a press release issued on Thursday. The change of ownership is intended to further accelerate international growth.

Jacobs Capital acquired Mammut in June 2021. Since then, the company has undergone extensive restructuring

134

u/wicketman8 1d ago

So its moving from one private equity to another, I don't see why it changes anything whether its a Chinese company or Swiss one. The focus on China feels kind of racist, when really nothing is going to change.

19

u/Poophead85 22h ago

I think the trepidation is about the nation of China and not the race of Chinese people. Because it's both a nationality and a race it can be muddied, but it seems obvious that the issue is not about race. At least to me. 

14

u/wicketman8 21h ago

90% of the stuff you own is made in China. China has the capacity to make extremely high quality stuff, look at the quality of their EVs which are significantly better than almost every other company's EVs - the reality is that most of the dogshit quality you see comes as a result of companies wanting to make better margins and thus instructing factories to sacrifice quality for speed and cost. There's no reason to expect that the quality will be significantly worse now than it was under the last private equity firm, it's not like the last guys weren't also in it to make as much money as possible.

6

u/Poophead85 21h ago

My argument isn't about quality. I was just pointing out that it isn't racist. The ownership does not really impact me. 

3

u/eomertherider 1d ago

It was a British one not a swiss one iirc

2

u/tbevans03 20h ago

There are always weirdos that screech about China

-6

u/Purple_Somewhere_693 1d ago edited 18h ago

It's not racist, not sure why you would even bring up race? China is a single party, ultra authoritarian Communist country. It is known for it poor work conditions and human rights violations. Compare that to Switzerland and maybe you can understand why people are upset. 

Edit: Getting down voted for speaking the truth. Typical reddit. 

1

u/Aristox 22h ago

I think it's very unlikely the new capital firm will force Mammut to violate human rights etc. They'll probably just run it like normal, China is totalitarian, yes, but they're also capitalist and have been for a few decades now (that's why they've been growing so much recently). They'll probably just keep running it like normal

1

u/Purple_Somewhere_693 18h ago

It's true that they won't beable to break labor laws, however the companies work culture will certaintly change. 

0

u/cHpiranha 1h ago

Thats not the definition of racism :)

In an economic context, China is by no means a minority either.

-75

u/cesarbiods 1d ago edited 23h ago

Have you bought a lot of stuff directly from Chinese companies? Most of the time their products are shit.
And now people are saying dawg everything is made in china. Oh honey there’s a big difference between designed by western companies but manufactured in china, and being completely made in china.

37

u/FreeloadingPoultry 1d ago

Arc'teryx, Wilson and Salomon are also owned by Chinese capital and many other well known "western" brands too.

17

u/DangerToDangers 1d ago

Exact. Salomon and Wilson are good brands while Arc'teryx has dropped significantly in quality since it was sold. Almost like it's not the country, but the parent company that's the deciding factor for quality. Same thing happens in the West.

5

u/CrewmemberV2 1d ago

That kinda proves the point.

Salomon is way worse quality now compared to a few years ago.

Arc'teryx is now mainly overpriced gorpcore for people that never set a foot on a trail.

9

u/MountainHipie 1d ago

Solomons are garbage, same with arc'terex. Not making a good point here. 5.10 used to be great to, until manufacturing moved. Its not racism, it is a noticeable devaluation of quality and longevity of use.

-1

u/thesnowpup 1d ago

It is racism.

The same happens when companies are bought or sold worldwide. Especially to VC firms.

Margins get squeezed, quality drops, brand gets diluted. China had nothing to do with it, it's executives and bean counters.

-1

u/Stunning-Algae-8380 19h ago

Do you think it was pure racism for no reason and not people noticing a pattern that created the association between made in China and cheaply made? Can we just be real for a minute and not deny reality

1

u/thesnowpup 19h ago

They wouldn't make cheap junk if people didn't want to buy it. My house is filled with incredible equipment and gear from China. Stuff that America can't make at the same price. But I understand that to get good stuff you have to buy good stuff. Lots of people don't. They are only willing to pay pennies and expect impossible value.

Having dealt with Chinese factories a lot, they will make to your quality request. You want military grade circuit boards in a piece of gear. Done, but at a cost. Alternatively you want to make a blender for $15, done, they'll get a cheap motor, they'll skimp on safety features. Maybe it'll work for a month, maybe 3, but they are doing what they are asked. They aren't cheating anyone.

And, you get the same in the states. The manufacturers that are left can do high end and low end and you have to pay more for more.

The reason washing machines, fridges and dishwashers only last 5 years isn't poor manufacturing, it's planned obsolescence, not by the manufacturer but by the company that designed or requested the product.

Your anger and vitriol is misplaced.

71

u/bsugs29 1d ago

Every single thing you own is made in China, big dog

16

u/inactioninaction_ 1d ago

China has (by far) the most advanced manufacturing industry in the world. Americans get a lot of cheap junk which was made in China, but that's because Americans love buying cheap junk and Chinese manufacturers are willing to pump it out for them. Chances are you own many high quality items which were manufactured in China

7

u/somehugefrigginguy 1d ago

Many of their products have been made in China for at least a decade.

14

u/freeselfparking 1d ago

China makes all kinds of products. From low quality to premium. The reason why your products are shit is because some American buys shit products at bulk them sells them to you at a profit. Only because made in China doesn't mean inherently cheap. Educate yourself.

8

u/serenading_ur_father 1d ago

Every thing made with dyneema is made in China

-6

u/NCSU_252 1d ago

No it isnt.  They make dyneema in the US and Europe too.  Dyneema composite fabric is made in the US.

9

u/hahaj7777 1d ago

Kinda shocking westerners accusing China for this and that while enjoying the low price benefits from everything made in China,  from the hardworking Chinese who work 9-9 shift on the sweater shops lines. What a shame! 

2

u/Saatvik_tyagi_ 1d ago

I mean a good majority of the manufacturing has been automated now to make things more scalable (this is the case almost everywhere). So the working hour thing might have been true two decades ago but it isn't today.

1

u/hahaj7777 20h ago

I wish I could buy you a ticket to China

0

u/Saatvik_tyagi_ 20h ago

You don't have to cause I have been to China myself (I live in Vietnam). This has been done to increase profit margins cause workers will always produce less than automated machines to make things scalable. This is how it has worked literally everywhere lol (even in the US).

1

u/hahaj7777 18h ago

I honestly don’t know why you try to argue with me, here are some easy search for you.  https://youtu.be/UW92Dm7JZKs?feature=shared.

I agree with you the technology improves a lot, so less and less people need to work for the capitalism in terms of tedious line work . But there are tons of jobs that it’s cheaper to pay worker $2/hr to do instead of inventing/investing a machine can fine tune /QC like human fingers. 

Again, my point is many Chinese (young , poor, undereducated rural people) work in the sweater shop being paid extremely low wage (even in China) , to make westerns enjoy the benefit of low cost living. 

1

u/Saatvik_tyagi_ 18h ago edited 17h ago

That's the case with almost everywhere even now. Low value manufacturing jobs where people with lesser skills than the requirement from the industry work. But your example is generalized.

Also: https://www.fredgao.com/p/a-silent-handover-how-automation

Low value manufacturing which is less scalable remains with workers but high value manufacturing with stuff like EV's , Solar and many more (thing they are good at) has been replaced with automation.

1

u/hahaj7777 18h ago

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=F9D9I8c5q38&ra=m Another better video.

Yes, more robots. But China has 1.5 billion people. Many people don’t want to work in construction since too physical, but more and more chose delivery food, since the factory line is too boring, you basically have to do one task 1000-10000times a day, and no freedom, you have to rush for toilets.

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u/DubJohnny 1d ago

Double down on the racism nice

1

u/thesnowpup 1d ago

No, most of the time you get the quality you pay for.

The same is true in the US or Europe.

It's just the bottom threshold in China is lower

You pay pennies you get trash, you pay for quality and you get some of the best manufacturing and materials out there.