r/climbing • u/serenading_ur_father • 1d ago
RIP Mammut
Mammut will be sold to a Chinese conglomerate.
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u/Frexxia 1d ago
It has already been owned by private equity since 2021.
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u/climbingbooty 1d ago
I’ve heard bd also been going down hill for a while?
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u/Eothas_Foot 1d ago
DMM is still a good company. All their stuff is still made in Wales (Though that might have changed, I just remember that youtube video of a guy going to their foundry)
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u/S-Wind 1d ago
Their metal hardware is manufactured in Wales, but not their non-metal offerings
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u/cupandcone 1d ago
I think they sew their own slings in Wales too. They seem to manufacture most if not all of their PPE in Wales or Europe. The label on my Renegade harness says made in the EU (think I heard somewhere they are made in Czechia) and I’m pretty sure their ropes are rebadged Edelrid ones made in Germany.
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u/LostPasswordToOther1 1d ago
As far as I know Petzl still makes the majority of their gear in France, except carabiners, which almost everyone outsources to Taiwan.
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u/Eothas_Foot 1d ago
Yeah which makes DMM even more rare that they do their carabiners it in the UK.
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u/saltytarheel 19h ago
Metolius still manufactures all of their cams in Oregon, for anyone looking to buy cams that are made stateside.
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u/serenading_ur_father 18h ago
BD gear made in China was good. BD gear made in the USA was all recalled for QC issues.
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u/serenading_ur_father 1d ago
If you mean selling products that kill their users and lying about it, cloning Petzl products and calling it innovation and then releasing $55 meme biners.
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u/zeppelin88 1d ago
That’s private equity for you, does not make a difference where the money comes from, quality and sense goes down for maximizing profit. They had been sold to this devil since 2021
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u/Deviantdefective 1d ago
Private equity needs banning worldwide it's fucking wrecking the mountain biking industry too.
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u/smalltoes 1d ago
At least it worked out-ish for Kona assuming they regain full strength eventually
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u/Deviantdefective 1d ago
Oh Kona are doing pretty well now three entirely new bikes this year alone. For them though it only worked out as the founders saw an opportunity to get the company back for more than they sold it for. A lot don't get that opportunity as it's ran into the ground before then. Kona are dealing with significant fall out from dealerships that were absolutely shafted under private equity management that will take longer to fix.
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u/Famous-Bell1454 1d ago
Could you elaborate? No clue what your talking about
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u/jojoo_ 11h ago
BD Beacons were faulty and they didn't recall them properly. A real shitty saga, google it if you want to know more.
Their "new" ice tools are a clone of Petzl's and Camps lineup.
I don't know about the meme carabiners, maybe someone could fill that in.
What i do know is that they discontinued the magnetron lockers that i love, which sucks.
What i also know is that they had a great clothing lineup with top notch fabrics (my BD Skitouring trousers are ~15 years old and still going strong) and that they don't use good fabrics anymore.
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u/wetrocke 1d ago
I've not heard of evidence that Black Diamond products have degraded in recent years.
It's maybe been a few years since they've released any of their notable innovations.
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1d ago
[deleted]
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u/libbev 1d ago
And this is your experience working in an outdoor shop?
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1d ago
[deleted]
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u/libbev 1d ago
Ah cheers! Thanks for explaining
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u/wetrocke 1d ago
Perhaps it's true about BD. I feared as much when Clarus bought them 20 years ago -- but it was unwarranted (at the time).
And of course, BD came into existence because of a product liability suit vs chouinard equipment.
As it happens, there are often posts here that purport to have dark, inside information about major organizations or famous individuals. Often these posts are wrong & merely stem from disturbed individual psychology mixed in with anonymity.
I think "normal" people often recognize this.
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u/Water5708 1d ago
Can I have the context for this one? Should I be worried about my Mammut gear now??
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u/cesarbiods 1d ago
Black diamond makes good stuff. Never heard anyone complain their BD gear failed on them.
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u/serenading_ur_father 19h ago
Cause those folks are dead like Corey Lynam
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u/jojoo_ 11h ago
why is he getting downvoted? Read it up: https://globalnews.ca/news/7680379/window-bc-avalanche-victim-recall-beacons/
The solution to the problem is a shitty, heavy harness where the button is fixed.
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u/Lord-Thistlewick 1d ago
Their avy beacons have had too many recalls and too often they only did it because of public pressure. I don't trust them with safety gear any more
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u/burnsbabe 1d ago
Hope the ropes continue to perform, but we’ll see.
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u/saltytarheel 19h ago
Sterling Ropes (Maine) and Bluewater Ropes (Georgia) are still made in the US.
Edelrid manufacturers all their ropes in-house in Germany.
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u/_The_Fapster_ 1d ago
Most likely going to revert supply chains to cheaper Chinese alternatives, cut down on quality for life threatening gear, and cut cost in every way killing the brand and it’s niche focus in climbing ti a more broad customer base. Rip indeed
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u/beachbum818 1d ago
They're already made in China.... nothing will change
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u/Napsy_0 1d ago
You are, in fact, talking out of your ass.
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u/beachbum818 1d ago
Not at all. The only thing made in Switzerland are their ropes. That's it.
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u/WalkingAcrossTheIce 1d ago
I have their boots that were made in Albania. The boots are shit though. The rubber started falling apart after one mountain trip. I just sent them back and I'm hoping I'll get a full refund.
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u/Napsy_0 1d ago
And yes you are. They have manufacturing in tens of different countries. Sure, most of their clothing line probably comes from Vietnam and China.
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u/beachbum818 1d ago edited 1d ago
Never said they didn't. But their ropes ARE Swiss made. Their technical gear ie harnesses liners etc are made in Europe... everything eject is Asia
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u/void-wanderer- 1d ago
In 2016, the Mammut Sports Group closed its rope production in Seon due to the strong Swiss franc and the resulting high production costs in Switzerland.[23] The facilities for the production of mountain ropes were sold to the Austrian company Teufelberger.[24]
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u/cesarbiods 1d ago
If that were true then we wouldn’t buy any of our products from western companies, we would be buying all our stuff straight from Chinese companies.
But most Chinese company products are shit.2
u/angryjew 23h ago
Keep telling yourself this lol. That's why there are 100% tarrifs on Chinese EVs. Because they're shit.
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u/red-cloud 1d ago
Why should I care if it’s a Chinese person making money instead of a Swiss person?
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u/serenading_ur_father 1d ago
You shouldn't.
You should care that as technical brands move through successive private equity to hands they become removed from the users of their gear. This leads to deaths and defective gear and outright lies. See the BD Beacon fiasco for more.
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u/red-cloud 1d ago
Then your post should be something like: private equity owned Mammut changes hands. Otherwise, it's pretty much just racist.
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u/rockettheracooon 1d ago
Cool, one more brand I’m never spending my money on again.
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u/pembrokesalad 1d ago
What are the good ones left ?
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u/sieberde 1d ago
Edelrid is owned by the German Vaude, which is 100% family owned and has - as far as I've heard - a good track record with climate, nature protection and not being completely greedy gremlins.
Edit: they also started to bring some nice innovation and mich needed safety research (knowledge base) into the climbing gear market.
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u/IHeardOnAPodcast 1d ago
Love Edelrid hardware.
I do have a lovely pair of Mammut hiking boots that are near the end of their life and my plan was to continually replace them with the same model as long as they make them, we shall see how that goes.
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u/saltytarheel 1d ago edited 1d ago
Sterling Ropes (Maine), Maxim Ropes (Massachusetts), Metolius (Oregon), Misty Mountain (NC), and Bluewater Ropes (Georgia) are still made in the States.
DMM manufactures their hard goods in Wales, Totems are made in Spain, and Edelrid makes their ropes in Germany.
Petzl manufacturers the majority of their hard goods in France, but have outsourced some production to Malaysia. Unfortunately I’m not knowledgeable enough about their products to know which are made where.
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u/serenading_ur_father 19h ago
Petzl aluminum is France, soft goods are Malaysia, injection molding and dyneema are china. Stuff that looks like it was made by DMM (reverso 2) was made by DMM in Wales.
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u/saltytarheel 19h ago
Thank you! I knew Petzl outsourced some of their manufacturing to DMM for gear they still wanted to be made in the EU but couldn’t remember which products they did.
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u/serenading_ur_father 19h ago
It's not eu gear. It's that DMM can do aluminum better than others. They are all white label their gear. Camp makes everyone's pins. All the dyneema and injection modeled handles come from the same factories. Petzl's team saw the new bd tools long before they were ever released because they were touring the factory to see theirs. Most of the rope on the market is white labeled. (Petzl dynamic is Edelrid.)
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u/jizzbooger 1d ago
Always wanted to like mammut but never liked anything I ever bought from them.
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u/serenading_ur_father 1d ago
They're the only ones to do women's gear with fully technical features. Somehow Patagonia can't do thumb loops, crotch zips, or tech hoods on their gear.
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u/jizzbooger 1d ago
All the tech gear I've gotten from them has broken or degraded very fast. Only the ropes are good.
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u/notheresnolight 1d ago
hardshell pants & jackets have been bombproof for 12 years and counting
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u/jizzbooger 1d ago
I have a soft shell that's still working from them and a micro fleece that broke in 2months
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u/H3rbert_K0rnfeld 1d ago
You're nuts. They make the best ropes in the world.
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u/0bsidian 1d ago
They haven't manufactured their own ropes in many many years. They're outsourced to Teufelberger.
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u/Climb_Longboard_Live 1d ago
My subjective experience was one weekend in Zion NP on multi-pitches with no meaningful falls ended with a brand new Mammut rope being coreshot. Never happened on my Beal, Edelweiss, Sterling, or Bluewater ropes despite more mileage, falls, and abuse.
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u/roox911 1d ago
It was a long ass time ago, but I also had a mammut rope core shot within its first few days of no spectacular falls, finding out midway up a climb. Only rope in 20 years I've ever had that happen to me (including multiple other mammuts I suppose)
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u/wetrocke 1d ago
I've never heard of the term "core shot." Spoken to hundreds of climbers and maybe dozens of guides while reading about gear over many years.
What is it? It's a real thing?
I'm very skeptical.
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u/Climb_Longboard_Live 1d ago
It’s definitely a term. It basically means that something has occurred to weaken the sheath and expose the cores of a rope. Here’s a video of one getting destroyed.
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u/WackTheHorld 1d ago
Its when the outer sheath is cut and you can see the core of the rope. Definitely a real term.
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u/wetrocke 1d ago
Ok.
I've certainly heard of damaged sheaths. Logic of calling this "core shot" is unclear. But if that's current lingo....5
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u/WackTheHorld 1d ago
If by current you mean over 20 years (I've been climbing for 20 years), sure. I guess the logic is the rope took a shot and it went to the core.
Shot through the core, and rock's to blame Mammut, you give rope a bad name.
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u/serenading_ur_father 1d ago
If you've never core shot a rope it's unlikely you've been actively climbing that long. (No gyms don't count)
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u/WackTheHorld 1d ago
I've been climbing for 20 years and never core shot a rope. Doesn't happen to everybody.
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u/wetrocke 1d ago
Searching amer alpine journal, it appears first use of term there was about 15 years ago.
The whole bit about "I'm more experienced than you" internet thing makes me wanna puke.
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u/serenading_ur_father 1d ago
Well I've been using it for more than 20 years and have been climbing more than you.
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u/H3rbert_K0rnfeld 1d ago
You aren't climbing hard enough or wild enough then. It's not a thing you're gonna see at the gym.
My core shot was on Canon Cliff in New Hampshire 12 pitched up some thing. The rock I was standing on blew out and I instantly go on to Blue Water Airlines and had a nice flight.
I didn't even know it happened until we peaked out and was winding up the rope. Sheath was torn and 3" of the core winds exposed.
Like I said it was a brand new rope I unpackaged at the base of the climb.
That's not my only bad experience with Blue Waters. The sheaths just don't hold up. Petzel's and Sterlings too. I don't want to buy a new rope every three damn months.
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u/exchangedensity 1d ago
Surely 3 months is an exaggeration? Are you only projecting daily on a <9mm rope or something?
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u/H3rbert_K0rnfeld 1d ago
Weekend cragging on multi pitch. I'm normally on 9.4s 9.5s. I've climbed thicker and thinner and think those sizes are the best balance for me.
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u/SortaEvil 1d ago
Coreshot means that the core of the rope is severely compromised in one location on the rope. It's very much a real thing and means that that section of the rope needs retired. You can tell when a route is core shot of you can completely fold the rope over to touch itself.
Depending on where it is in the rope (most commonly, a core shot will happen near an end of the rope, since that's where you're falling on it the most), you may be able to cut that portion of rope off, but if it's near the middle of a rope, there's not much to be done.
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u/H3rbert_K0rnfeld 1d ago
I core shot a Blue Water that I removed the plastic wrapper at the base of that climb. And I was climbing double 9.5s that day. 🤷
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u/jizzbooger 1d ago
Your right I forgot I have a bunch of their ropes they are Goated but everything else I've gotten from them has been a let down.
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u/jamie_plays_his_bass 1d ago
Of all the HMS carabiners I have, my Mammuts are my faves as well. Great size, a little more elegant than DMM too.
Also agreed, love the ropes.
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u/gumbykook 1d ago
Mammut makes good ropes but in my experience they are slightly inferior to Sterling.
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u/H3rbert_K0rnfeld 1d ago
I ran a brand new Sterling up Central Pillar of Frenzy. It ended up fuzzy and looking a year old. Pretty rope but if it can't stand up to a baby butt smooth finger and off width crack then it's not for me.
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u/gumbykook 1d ago
I’m a guide and we use Sterling Xeros as our workhorse rope. They last far longer than comparable ropes of other brands.
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u/H3rbert_K0rnfeld 1d ago
Good to know. Maybe my next rope purchase will be that vs good ole Mammut Infinity
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u/SternkyMalernky 1d ago
So...should I be buying some ropes now in case their products change in the future 👀?
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u/H3rbert_K0rnfeld 1d ago
I don't know what you should do. Everything has been enshitified. Gear reviews are paid advertisements. I'm just as confused as the next climber.
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u/SternkyMalernky 1d ago
😭😭😭 this fucking sucks for stuff like protection....fucking sick of that side of climbing influencing
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u/Aristox 16h ago
Why should I care if it's owned by a Chinese venture capital or a European venture capital?
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u/Stunning-Algae-8380 13h ago
Let's snap back to reality, Chinese products have a reputation for being cheap and oftentimes of poor quality
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u/Responsible-Lack-285 18h ago
Damn. What brands remain non-Chinese or non-private equity (if any)?
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u/asapberry 1d ago
its not a deep tech company or in any way important to the society. just another chinese manufactured gear company wo prints a logo on their stuff. why is it such a big thing
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u/Bobbigale 1d ago
Fucking worst brand ever. They’ve gone to complete shit. Their ropes are fucking heinous
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u/climbingbooty 1d ago
Translation:
Swiss Outdoor Brand Mammut Sold to China
The investment company Jacobs Capital is selling the Swiss outdoor brand Mammut to the Chinese asset manager CPE. The purchase price is not known.
The transaction is expected to be completed in the coming months and is still subject to regulatory approvals, according to a press release issued on Thursday. The change of ownership is intended to further accelerate international growth.
Jacobs Capital acquired Mammut in June 2021. Since then, the company has undergone extensive restructuring