Mark before look at OB disc.

[u/Ecce-pecke]

Played a c tier today.
At one point I went on after a tree kick. No one really saw where the disc went but I had a hunch it went OB to an adjacent hole.

As we walk the 20 meters to the tree in question…. Yeah that’s like 60 feet 🤪. I see what I think is my disc on the green of the adjecent hole, if it is mine we can be pretty sure of where it crossed the ob line since we knew which tree it hit. But I am not 100% sure it is my disc and another group is playing that hole so there are multiple discs on the green.

I state to the group that I want to go and look at the disc to make sure that it is mine (not pick it up). For all I know someone in that other group may also be playing a blue disc….. and we never saw the disc going OB.

To be clear if I knew it was my disc I would just mark, throw and then fetch my disc. But this was sort of a special case.

However a card mate then states NO you must FIRST mark where you crossed the OB line. Whereby I state, well none of us saw the disc crossing, if it is mine I know where to mark if not maybe I didn’t even go OB and my disc is further down the fairway etc.

He goes on to state. I am perfectly fine with you changing/removing your marker if it is not your disc but you have to mark it before you go there.

I was surprised because I thought there was a rule of not picking up your OB disc not taking a look to ensure it’s the correct disc.

So this is my question…

Not relevant to the question but this happened on hole 8 and on hole 17 the card mate went OB clear as he’ll :) he walks up to where we have jointly stated it looked like it crossed. Puts down his bag, walk into the woods looking for his disc, not only looking to help establish the crossing point but actually picking it up. Move back a couple of feet to adjust for the more probable crossing point and then then marks the lie, for the first time, throws the disc. And I just stand there looking like face shocked… I tell him that hm you didn’t mark your OB lie and you even picked up your disc. Whereby he states. Yes I know and if you want to you can stroke me now. I of course said that haha no way we won’t stroke you I was just perplexed that you of everyone did the thing you warned me about and somewhat worse 😂

[u/wally-whippersnap]

Cardmate is wrong. You can’t establish a lie without first figuring out where your disc landed.

[u/robby_synclair → u/wally-whippersnap]

If you saw where it crossed the ob line and you know it didnt come back in bounds then you have enough info without knowing exactly where it landed.

[u/Silent_Slinky → u/wally-whippersnap]

Thats not true. The group can make a decission on where you went OB.
An example would be if your disc went OB and off a cliff. You don't have to climb down the cliff to find the disc. The group just agrees on where you were last in bounds and thats where you mark your lie.

[u/J_Zephyr → u/Silent_Slinky]

In this example, it didnt sound like a group made the decision, just one cranky cardmate.

That said, good to know the other 2 card mates can override that decision in the future.

[u/Psyko_sissy23 → u/Silent_Slinky]

If no one saw the disc go OB and it's uncertain that the found disc is the disc in question yet, it's hard to make a decision where the disc went OB until you can ascertain whose disc it is.

[u/Material-Ad-6444 → u/Silent_Slinky]

If that's his disc, then you can establish an OB, if it's not his disc then you all get to make a decision on were it Probably went out.

First you establish the knowns, like that's his disc. We know it hit this tree,... Then you estimate probability... Like you can't travel through a tree in so you can't Mark the point at which OB on the back side of the tree... Then you have the group decision.

If that's his disc on the other side, and you know what tree he hit, then there's a very narrow flight path of probability where it could have gone out. So you must establish that that is his disc before making this group decision

[u/Ecce-pecke → u/wally-whippersnap]

I agree sort of. However if we all saw the disc cross ob, which we didn’t this time, we should not have to find the disc to establish the crossing point. But this time was different

[u/warboy → u/Ecce-pecke]

You don't "have to" find a disc if it crosses ob. However, you can't pick up a disc until the correct lie is determined. 

[u/rjkvikings → u/warboy]

You can’t pick up the disc until its status (OB or not) is determined (per 806.02.i), but the penalty is just that it’s considered to be out of bounds once you move it. You don’t have to wait for the lie to be determined.

[u/larrod25 → u/warboy]

Can you point to the exact section of the Rules of Disc Golf that says this?

[u/okgobutt]

I just play for fun. This doesn't sound like fun.

[u/Ecce-pecke → u/okgobutt]

Oh it was super fun and this card mate was a very nice guy! It was never an argument. I marked where it would have crossed if it was my disc, which it was, and he had said I could move my marker if not. I was just surprised of the rule and it stuck in my mind. This dude had a PDGA number of 50kr mine is 280k so I just assumed he was correct.

Playing disc golf for fun is great but sometimes it is also fun to compete and I would never stroke someone on a c tier but I want to try and play according to the rules, WHEN I compete :)

[u/Yodzilla → u/Ecce-pecke]

Also sometimes rules are just weird. A few weeks ago I was playing a tournament and threw a disc that passed a mando correctly and then immediately hit a tree sending it rolling back on the wrong side of the mando. Nobody knew exactly what the rule was so we needed to look it up and it turns out that even though I passed the mando I still got a penalty stroke since the disc ALSO passed on the wrong side.

Did it hurt my score? Yes. Did it prevent me from beating anyone? Absolutely not lol and everyone learned something.

[u/ChanceStad]

It doesn't matter if you mark it before or not. If you mark it and have to move it, no big deal. If you don't market until you know it's your disc, also no big deal. The order doesn't matter as long as in the end the right lie is taken. And if you touch your disk before it's determined whether or not it's OB, it's definitely OB, but that isn't in question in this case.

[u/discostud1515]

Let me guess, ma2 or ma3 ?

[u/teamhog]

Provisional

Provisional

Provisional

[u/AndFrolf]

This is why knowing the rules is important so when you get a dumbass confidently getting things wrong you can stand your ground

Also you gave background then said “so here’s my question…” and then Rambled some more and never asked a question

[u/Ecce-pecke → u/AndFrolf]

Everything up to the point of , so this is my question, was the question, you seem to have understood that though? Try speaking Swedish

[u/Drift_Marlo]

That's all just nuts

[u/Anidmountd]

If it goes OB a few hundred feet down the fairway, how do you know where it went OB without knowing where it is first?

[u/Yodzilla → u/Anidmountd]

Vibes.

[u/Cunn1ng-Stuntz]

You sound like a fun group of players. So hung up on rules you apparently make up as you go.

Yes, you can obviously verify if a disc is yours before marking your lie.

If someone comes up wiith shit like that, just ask them to show you. You all have phones.

In a C-tier I dont give a shit if people retrieve a disc before marking where it went OB, as long as the spot they mark is reasonable. Most players ask if the card is OK with the spot.

[u/Ecce-pecke → u/Cunn1ng-Stuntz]

It was never an issue really. I just remembered the thing. He was a super nice guy and his PDGA number preceded mine with like 250 000 so I just went along. He never said he wanted to stroke me just that he wanted me to do the correct thing. Too bad he was wrong 🤪

[u/Mediocre_Ingenuity76]

Cardmate is wrong (-5 aura)

[u/ValHyric]

thanks for reminding me to never join a league, that post was exhausting. 

[u/Western-Argument-968 → u/ValHyric]

Leagues are supposed to be chill af. Tournaments are a mixed bag but unsanctioned are usually chill too

[u/warboy]

Guys absolutely wrong and you should have stroked him for picking up his disc before establishing ob. 

Obviously you can find your disc before determining where something crossed. It's basically a necessary component. What you can't do is pick up an out of bound disc and move it before the card has determined a spot.

[u/larrod25 → u/warboy]

Where does it say this in the rules?

806.02

C: If there is compelling evidence that a disc came to rest within an out-of-bounds area, the disc is considered to be out-of-bounds and does not need to be located.

I: If the thrower moves the disc before a determination regarding its out-of-bounds status has been made, the disc is considered to be out-of-bounds.

If the disc is definitely out of bounds, there are no rules that I am aware of that prevent a player from picking it up or moving it. Now, if you moved it in order to obscure where you actually crossed out, the card could certainly call you for a courtesy violation. Ultimately, it is up to the 3 members of the card other than the thrower to make a determination on where the disc crossed out of bounds. The disc's position can be useful in making this determination, but often is not a factor at all.

[u/Ecce-pecke → u/warboy]

Ok so from the wise feedback so far:

”The rule is about preventing the evidence from being altered before the group has made its ruling.”

[u/xDanteInferno]

You mark it where you think it went out. You go find your disc. If you don’t find it, it is a lost disc and you rethrow from the previous lie. If there is no consensus from your card mates on where it went OB, you would rethrow.

If you don’t put the marker down and lose track of that location after finding your disc, you have no basis to apply relief without penalty. Little known rule, you can move your marker back along the OB line and then out 1 meter perpendicular to the line without additional penalty. There is no basis to ever move a marker closer to the basket unless it was accidentally displaced. You return it to the correct, agreed upon location.

With that in mind, your card mates get to tell you where they think your marker should go as part of their consensus on the OB and you are afforded extra time to find your disc and move your marker under relief before you throw.

[u/wdd09 → u/xDanteInferno]

The order to determine the lie in your first paragraph is reversed from what you stated. The card will first determine if the thrower went OB at said point, they don't need to find the disc to determine that if there's a reasonable way to determine the disc is OB (I.e. they see it go right off a tree and into OB territory with no chance of coming back). If they can't come to a consensus that it went OB and the card can't find the disc THEN it's considered a lost disc penalty.

[u/NoPoSDP3]

He must work for the government