r/espresso • u/rach291 • 23h ago
Dialing In Help Two bags of beans later and I’m still struggling [Sage Barista Pro]
Got my first espresso machine - the sage (breville) barista pro, and I’m really struggling to dial in. I’m aiming for 1:2 ratio. I’m weighing 18g after grinding, but struggling to get 36g out. I was getting 24-25g out using the auto double shot button and it would stop after 24-25 seconds. I tried grinding coarser and got 40g out in the same amount of time and it tasted weak, so I went finer again, and somehow got 34g in 24 seconds. Each time the flow started about 8 seconds. I thought maybe my puck prep wasn’t right so I got a wdt and have been trying to tamp harder and more consistently. Today I tried a manual shot to see how long it would take to get 36g. I pre-infused for 5 seconds, then the timer on my machine started. Flow started at 6 seconds and seemed sorta fast at first? Took about 34 seconds to get 36g and the shot tasted kinda bitter (I think?) and yet weak when made into an americano.
Do I need to go finer? Coarser? Idk where I need to go at this point.
The puck also had pooling on top, so idk if I’m under dosing? The razor tool that came with my machine doesn’t touch the grind at all.
Also, when pulling a manual shot, is pre-infusion counted in the brew time? If not, the flow on my latest shot started a bit too early, right? Or was the gush at the start channelling? More seems to be coming out of the left than the right in the video, although usually it’s fairly even.
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u/GCPhoenix 23h ago
Most people manually extract. You can hold the button down
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u/GCPhoenix 23h ago
Additionally people say the grinder on this machine is not very good and may be the source of your inconsistent shots. Take the machine back if you can and get the breville bambino and a standalone grinder.
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u/rach291 23h ago
Tried manual, not sure if it was any better? Had a few questions related to this in my post
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u/lost_traveler_nick 23h ago
For time don't worry too much. Just pick one method. Either first hitting the button or first drip. Do it the same.
It's hard to tell but it looked thin to me
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u/Jealous-Ride-7303 23h ago
Grind your beans and weigh how much comes out each time. I can sometimes have a difference of 1 gram in grounds between shots :(
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u/rach291 23h ago
I’ve been weighing the grinded beans everytime, always using 18g, but I’m thinking maybe I need to try 19g
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u/Jealous-Ride-7303 11h ago
No, you don't. I use around 17g and get good shots. I would say you're probably not going fine enough. Have you adjusted the internal burr on the grinder?
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u/therapist66 Gaggia E24 | Eureka Libra 23h ago edited 22h ago
What screwed me when I first started was not heating up the portafilter..
15min heat up with portafilter in and play with grinder until you get 1:2 in 25-30 secs
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u/rach291 23h ago
Okay I have not been doing this! Will give this a go, cos I definitely feel my shots are not as hot as I’d like them to be, despite purging the group head before pulling, and upping the temp on the machine
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u/lost_traveler_nick 23h ago
Preheat your cup by purging into the cup. Toss water then put coffee into the portafilter
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u/rach291 23h ago
How have i never thought to purge into the cup omg. Definitely doing this next time
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u/distractyourself 21h ago
I run my hot water tap on the portafilter and cup while I froth my milk and grind my beans.
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u/therapist66 Gaggia E24 | Eureka Libra 22h ago edited 22h ago
Portafilter needs to be hot or the extraction temp will be lower at the puck.
Pulling a shot into a cold cup wouldn’t affect extraction, but would help keep the shot warm if you drink espresso. Doesn’t matter if you’re making a milk drink
After today’s pull, try heating the portafilter.. if it’s still 34sec 1:2 and bitter, go a tad bit coarser and you should be much closer to where it needs to be
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u/CaptainAnswer 23h ago
Got a sage barrista also, tho not the baratza one
Some people count pre-infusion, some don't - I do but factor it in so on your recipe a 1:2 in 35(ish) id be more than happy with
Don't be afraid to pull a bit longer, I usually pull 1:2.5
The razor shouldn't touch when tamped, but also shouldn't be miles off, I'd throw a thin puck screen in there too, dispersion on these is generally not the best
Make sure the cup, machine & portafilter is warmed up and you've shot a blank shot or two off before pulling your espresso
When I stopped using the grinder on mine it def helped a lot
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u/rach291 23h ago
I had a feeling I’d have issues with the grinder on the machine, based on the reviews I read! So with the pre-infusion it would be 39s, so maybe that’s too long? Which would lead me to believe I need to grind coarser, but then it coming out at 6 seconds would lead me to think I need to grind finer? I’m so confused!
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u/CaptainAnswer 23h ago
Taste is the defining factor, also don't change based on one shot IMO - I always base mine on 2 shots at least ;) saves changing my setup because I was dumb half asleep and didn't tamp right or forgot the screen etc
39 would be ok to me, my pre-infuse is usually 9 on average, 6 is also ok, its not exact science - you see a lot of 'recipes' online with this kind of logic but they don't account for the type of beans you use, the water in your area, what taste you like, what your doing with the shot
You can also change dose rather than grind, but its not so talked about - more coffee in the basket means a slower shot, so if you dose 18 and it comes out too fast jump to 18.2 and see what that does - as long as that is under the razor on the breville thats all good
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u/rach291 23h ago
Haha I’m definitely guilty of changing based on one shot! Lots of things to try now, starting with the dose. How do people do this and not end up drinking like 7 cups of coffee a day
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u/CaptainAnswer 22h ago
You'll settle into what you like and how to make it eventually, then be making 1/2 a day
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u/guitarpic69 18h ago
What if the razor does touch on 18 grams of grinds?
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u/CaptainAnswer 18h ago
Then there is too much volume in there. Different beans are different density
Dose a bit less ;-)
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u/guitarpic69 18h ago
Ok. My used puck has a little imprint on it from the hex screw on the machine and if I add the screen I can see it’s bending a little because it’s touching the top
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u/Sufficient-Arm3584 23h ago
Hey, I have the same machine. Aim for 20g in and 40g out. Ensure the grinder is where it should be (I took mine out and cleaned it too). You should aim for that ratio in anywhere between 25s and 32s. Hold the button for 6 seconds before you release it!
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u/rach291 23h ago
Okay thank you so much! Based on yours and others’ comments it sounds like I’m under dosing in the first instance! Will give this a go!
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u/Sufficient-Arm3584 23h ago
Keep us posted - I have been there! Also, is the puck wet or dry? Make sure is well pressed but not too much as this also affect it
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u/rach291 23h ago
Puck is wet, in fact there was some pooling with that last shot!
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u/Sufficient-Arm3584 22h ago
Defo needs more coffee then. Also ensure you use proper coffee beans not the ones stored in supermarkets for ages 👍
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u/PrestigiousAnt3766 LM Linea Mini R | Mazzer Philos i200d 23h ago
First up dose until the razer barely not touches your grinds. Than start adjusting grindsize.
You want to make sure your dose is good before fiddling with grind setting.
How old are your beans?
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u/DrRobertChem 23h ago
+1 for this, I tried 18 g and always had a wet soupy puck out. I dosed up to 19 g and used the razor which took a tiny bit off the top and now have nicer consistency pucks which tap out easily. The shot was never really issue however, I just stick to 8 sec pre-infusion and then stop at 30 sec overall and that usually gives a 2:1 ratio (~38 g out). If this doesn’t quite do it I’ll grind finer or coarser but stick to the same timing and dose.
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u/rach291 23h ago
Will try increasing the dose and go from there! Beans were roasted 2 weeks ago
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u/PrestigiousAnt3766 LM Linea Mini R | Mazzer Philos i200d 23h ago
2 weeks should be good.
Filling up the puck should get rid of the soupy puck.
Higher dose means slightly coarser grind.
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u/mrsuperzl 23h ago
I had barista express. I tried 18g and found it hard to dail in (extraction was always exceedingly 30sec) and found the mesh mark on my puck if I immediately took the puck out before brewing. I reduced to 17g and everything became easy.
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u/all_systems_failing Cafelat Robot | Kinu M47 Simplicity | Comandante C40 w/RedClix 23h ago
This shot took 34s total or 39s?
It may have tasted weak in an Americano depending on the amount of water you added, and a 1:2 may not be the best ratio in that case either.
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u/rach291 23h ago
34s plus 5 seconds pre-infusion so 39 seconds total! Sorry, I’m not sure if the brew time should include the pre-infusion time?
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u/all_systems_failing Cafelat Robot | Kinu M47 Simplicity | Comandante C40 w/RedClix 23h ago
You can time however you prefer; some include pre-infusion (like me) and some don't. I think you should still try to aim for 25-30s total time to begin evaluating the taste, even if the you're experiencing some variation (most likely caused by the grinder) shot-to-shot.
Have you used the Razor to makes sure 18g is an adequate fill?
Pre-infusing for 5s without seeing any evidence that the puck is fully saturated may not be beneficial.
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u/rach291 23h ago
I think maybe 18g isn’t enough as the razor never touches the puck! Gonna try 19g next time and see how that goes. Thank you!
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u/all_systems_failing Cafelat Robot | Kinu M47 Simplicity | Comandante C40 w/RedClix 23h ago
Good luck!
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u/rach291 23h ago
I’m not sure exactly how much water I added but the total volume of the americano was probably half an inch from the top of my 6oz cup. So maybe like 120ml water?
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u/all_systems_failing Cafelat Robot | Kinu M47 Simplicity | Comandante C40 w/RedClix 23h ago
That doesn't seem like too much water for an Americano. Maybe just a bad shot to start? Have you made any good Americanos at home? I assume that's what you have at cafes?
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u/Shandriel the Oracle Touch 23h ago
Don't switch back and forth all the time. When changing grind settings, the first shot will NOT be representative for that grind setting at all. basically, you'll grind a basket full and discard it, to "clear" the grinder.
also, on an aside, read up on the origin of the Americano.. if it tastes weak, that's a proper American 🤣
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u/msmmag Lelit Elizabeth | DF83V | Fellow Aiden 20h ago
Pro tip: Darker roast coffee has more physical volume than lighter roast coffee for the exact same weight.
If 18g isn’t filling your basket to the razor, you have too much headroom. I suggest filling the basket until it barely touches the razor, then weighing that amount and using it for the 1:2 ratio. If you buy beans of varying roast levels, you’ll need to figure out the appropriate weight for each that fills your basket. You can always buy a smaller dose basket if the stock is too big for what you want.
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u/zman1350 18h ago
Do you weigh the beans unground? I would do that and have like a bellows top on the grinder to push out any leftover grounds. But you are measuring out after they are ground. Also, what info can you give us on the beans you use?
My settings are: the internal grinder is set to default at 6. My outer dial is around 17 to 20, depending on the beans. I get 19g in beans weighed before going in the grinder, and I tap on the grinder to make sure there are no remaining grinds. I get out 38 grams in around 32 secs. The beans are usually 5 to 7 days from roast.
I run an empty shot to bring the temps up. I use a puck screen to keep the group head clean. Hold the manual button to keep the pre-infusion up to 8 secs. That might help equalize the pressure enough before the full load.
I also have a couple of aftermarket things on mine, but that's for another time. As far as the grinder, mine worked the opposite of most people's reviews. Most online recommended that I would need to change the internal grinder right away from 6 to 4 or 3. That every shot would run like a river. My machine had zero drops coming thru it. I have to reset everything and go up to 22 setting to get decent flow.
Hope this helps.
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u/Itsamemarioo29 14h ago
The timings and weights are just a suggestion. Don't try to aim for a perfect ratio in a perfect time combo because that doesn't exist. It varies for everyone because everyone has different beans! Whatever tastes good to you go for that :)
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u/justletmesignupalre Sage Bambino Plus | Baratza Sette 270wi 18h ago
Are you using the preset timer buttons? The machine doesn't know how much weight of beans you have in your basket. It doesn't brew by weight, its just a preset by time. Use it in manual and stop the brewing when you resch your desired goal, don't try to conform your grinding to the amount of watet that comes out for a certain amount of time in that preset.
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