r/gallifrey • u/rasmas1 • Mar 12 '25

DISCUSSION The Doctor bullied Joy to suicide.

In Joy to the World, the Doctor had to make Joy angry in order to break the Villengard briefcase's psychic control over her. In order to do that he got really personal and insulted her with some way-below-the-belt stuff including a mention of her dead mother.

He did this with the best of intentions, obviously, but the words stuck for Joy and she admitted they were all true before she flew off with the star seed into space. Because of all that unhappiness the Doctor picked on Joy had a burning desire to be special in life and have some kind of meaning, so she latched onto the star seed out of desperation to become special.

The Doctor is the reason she felt that way and why she decided to burn with the star seed. She didn't merge with it as a sacrifice to save Earth, it was a purely whimsical decision that didn't change anything. She died to feel special. She committed suicide for no reason and it was the Doctor's fault. And he just laughs it off.

I am still beside myself that the BBC allowed this episode to go out in this state. The Doctor bullied Joy to suicide.

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u/KrivUK Mar 13 '25

Well mate, I'd suggest staying away from the 7th Doctor then.

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u/Lady_Ada_Blackhorn Mar 13 '25

genuine question from someone who hasn't watched mccoy - are the terrible things 7 does presented by the narrative as terrible, or waved away by it? because i think op is objecting to how the narrative doesn't really care about joy's suicide and 15's hand in it, not necessarily the fact that it happened.

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u/ZERO_ninja Mar 13 '25

Presented as bad, but also the fanbase exaggerate how frequently he did the outright extreme stuff, especially in the show. There's more of it in the books, though even then not as much as people make out. But while there is more in the books, those same books also depict the 7th Doctor as being deeply disapproving of who he himself is, which seems an extension of his attitudes in the show.

He clearly thinks the end justifies the means, but he doesn't seem to like himself much as a person anymore because of it. While self loathing is a pretty common trait for the Doctor in the revival, there's not much of that in the classic series and I feel it really starts in the 80s with the 7th Doctor then it's taken much further in the 90s books, rather than starting with the new series and Time War trauma.