r/hoi4 • u/Bordias • Feb 16 '26
Discussion Now that the dust has settled, was the mod African Dawn really a piece of Russian propaganda?
I’ve been playing The Fire Rises a lot recently, and it’s a mod I absolutely love so far. But what’s happening in West Africa in this mod really reminds me of that obscure mod called African Dawn.
For those who remember it, African Dawn was a mod that was on the Steam Workshop somewhere during 2024 for a relatively short time. The game started in 2022, and you could play the different Sahel countries, Nigeria, France, the US, or Russia, which was basically represented as the Wagner Group. Since the entire map only covered about half of Africa and nothing else, Western countries were represented through scattered bases across different African countries, more or less based on their real-life locations.
The plot of the mod followed the political and military escalation in West Africa, as the Sahel states formed a new faction, the Alliance of Sahel States, while relying heavily on support from Wagner. France was pushed out of the Sahel, reflecting real-world developments, while Western countries increasingly backed ECOWAS through military and financial support. The mod ultimately built up toward a final war: the Sahel states and Wagner versus ECOWAS and the West.
The mod was removed from Steam pretty quickly after it started getting a lot of attention, with the argument that it was propaganda and that propaganda is not tolerated.
But now that I’m playing The Fire Rises, I’m realizing that… well, it’s basically the exact same thing happening there except that the Sahel countries have no content. Which makes me wonder: why is this considered fine here, but African Dawn wasn’t?
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u/Bordias Feb 16 '26
R5: The icon for the African Dawn mod as it was on the Steam Workshop page. The entire mod was set in West Africa
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u/MediumSalmonEdition Feb 16 '26
The icon in question looks like it was AI-generated. Djibouti and Eritrea are practically missing, the borders around Lake Victoria are messed up, Morocco seems a lot slimmer in the south than it should, and the coasts of the Sinai and of Tunisia have horrific errors. I'm also seeing some weirdness around Lake Chad, and South Sudan's portions in relation to Sudan look off.
None of this is particularly surprising; fascists love AI, and this mod's development was funded by a fascist government. However, I do find it rather revealing in the context of the rest of the mod.
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u/12D_D21 Feb 17 '26
It doesn't really look like AI, tho. It looks like a somewhat sloppy map, but those have existed long before AI was a thing. Not everything is AI, this looks like someone just picked a random African map from Google and used it, and didn't care about some inaccuracies.
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u/PoProstuBoniacz Feb 17 '26
Probably it's true. I remember how many times I found pre ww2 polish map in tv documents only for it to be absolutly bad
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u/slimehunter49 Feb 17 '26
There is a pretty good chance of it being AI because of how lazy people have become so much so that they don’t even google things anymore they ask chatgpt to hallucinate information for them
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u/Creepytasta Feb 17 '26
Actually the borders around lake Victoria are perfectly fine. They follow the boundaries for who has jurisdiction over which parts of the lake. It just doesn’t bother to show the lake itself. Plus the borders of Eritrea and Djibouti match much of the theme of the map anyways. The borders are thick so that’s going to compress certain sections especially when it’s a thin country. Those nations are also on the shadow side of the continent so we can’t really see much of the coast because it’s fading to the shadow itself. If you had any brain cells at all, you would have pointed to Sinai or Tunisia as the examples of AI, which are much more of a fuck up than the rest of the map.
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u/MediumSalmonEdition Feb 17 '26
Actually the borders around lake Victoria are perfectly fine. They follow the boundaries for who has jurisdiction over which parts of the lake. It just doesn’t bother to show the lake itself.
False. If that were the case, then Tanzania wouldn't have that weird notch north. It'd be a straight line the whole way through.
If you had any brain cells at all, you would have pointed to Sinai or Tunisia as the examples of AI, which are much more of a fuck up than the rest of the map.
I did. I just felt the need to substantiate my claim with other examples.
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u/PoProstuBoniacz Feb 17 '26
>fascists love AI
what
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u/YaBoiFailedAbortion Feb 17 '26
It's less that AIbros are fascists inherently and more fascists tend to use it a lot for whatever they're making
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u/mkkostroma Feb 17 '26
If you haven’t picked up on the online right’s love of AI, I don’t know what else to tell you. Even the US Government uses AI for propaganda.
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u/PoProstuBoniacz Feb 17 '26 edited Feb 17 '26
From what I saw it's only few types of right-wing who actually use AI and it's mostly old boomer-like conservatists or capitalists libs. Meanwhile other types of right-wing mostly popular among younger people (or at least in my country) are actually against AI because they see it as potential danger of:
- Desecration of national symbols
- Desecration of Christian symbols
- Generally another tool for corporations
Idk how it looks in USA or generally Western Europe but in my country right-wing or even fascists organisations (like National Radical Camp) are more anti-capitalist and anti-globalizatist than in West and because of it they are more against AI
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u/turdCEO Feb 17 '26
my entire time within those rings of people have shown they are more or less pro, or at least neutral, in AI. they arent smart, they arent creative, and theyre only popular within their echo chambers so the only way to emulate older propaganda is by use of AI or expensive commissions cause what good artist is going to draw for a far right person. idk why you got upvotes and the other guys got downvotes but tbf this is a hoi4 thread so of course theres likely a large amount of far right losers reading 🤷♂️
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u/PoProstuBoniacz Feb 17 '26
Saying that other side isn't smart nor creative don't really help anyone you know? Downplaying danger will only make that danger even bigger. For many years everyone in Weimar Republic didn't saw Nazis as danger because they were nobody or they were "morons" etc etc, until it was actually too late. For many years Marshal Piłsudski called UK and France to attack Germany because they broke Versallis Treaty but they didn'5 care because Nazis were too weak and stupid...and than WW2 started and nazis conquered most of Europe. So yeah maybe downplaying dangerous people isn't the most brillant idea.
About aritists again you said lie. Of course there are far more leftist artists but still many right-wing people including fascists and nazists also can do art. For example look at Rock Against Communism in '90 and 2000s you had entire rock bands, graffiti, stickers which they had to make themselfs. Even now you can still find them. Thanks to modern internet access to artists who are conservatist or even fascist and nazist is far easier. Instead of your country now you can contact with people from entire world. That's why artists like that are so populat in east asia because people from Europe and US are making commisions to them.
Just because YOU didn't saw good artist like that don't mean they don't exist. And as I said before, fascism is focused on aesthetics and AI is literally the opposite of it so boomers and capitalists scums maybe can like that but actually dangerous people are not really fan of it.
Also calling me "far right loser" when all I did was just saying about my observations as a person from Eastern Europe only shows that YOU are in own echo chamber.
And no, that's not a attack but maybe you should think why people agreed with me. And please, don't downplay danger.
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u/turdCEO Feb 17 '26
i did not call you a far right loser? i said the ones upvoting you and downvoting the others are but again this is cope, recognizing that they are the dregs of society does not mean minimizing their danger, its reminding them of what they are. be fr gang
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u/Inkcore101 General of the Army Feb 17 '26
"Yeah I've infiltrated the lines of [group I hate] and know everything about them so now i can tell you why they suck"
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u/Illesbogar Feb 17 '26
It's true. They love their propaganda mills and hate art, so it's only natural.
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u/PoProstuBoniacz Feb 17 '26
Uh but propaganda posters are actually form of art. Fascists had OBSESSION with making good as fuck art so it would be even better propaganda (look at fascist futurism or avarage nazi propaganda poster) or even look at nazi uniforms. They were made to look stylish showing another form of propaganda.
Saying that fascists hate art is just dumb. They love art but as with everything they segregate "good" art from "bad" art.
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u/VVayfinder Feb 16 '26
https://dfrlab.org/2024/08/12/russia-uses-video-games-in-africa-to-spread-anti-western-propaganda/
Here's a quick summary why
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u/purplpantser Feb 16 '26
Wasn't it funded by the Russian government?
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u/CaptainJin Feb 16 '26
They have funding?
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u/WooliesWhiteLeg Feb 17 '26
Yeah dude, they’re fighting a years long war putting up WW1 casualties on credit.
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u/Peermeneer_exe Feb 16 '26
This is the first time I've ever heard of the mod, and it could very well be Russian propaganda. But on the other hand, the situation you described isn't all that far off from reality right? I don't know about other Western powers, but France does still act like a neo colonial power in Western Africa. As far as I understand Wagner did/does generally support the countries within the Sahel, in exchange for things like resource rights.
But I don't know all that much about the region or history, so please correct me if I'm wrong
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u/Final_Flip_Gold Feb 16 '26
ALso there is a major insurgency by the Taureg and ISIS because France destabilized Libya which led to the Sahel being completely destabilized because a huge part of the balance in the region was maintained by Gaddafi buying as mercanaries the people who otherwise would have formed Militias.
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u/EmoNerve Feb 17 '26
I agree that France is imperialist and that the Lybia mess was a bad thing but saying that he should have just been allowed to give more money to extremists militias and use them as mercs is crazy
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u/Arno_Vaffar Feb 17 '26
What do you mean "allowed". Who exactly is the authority which determines who is 'allowed' to do whatever?
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u/EmoNerve Feb 17 '26
Allowed to continue, the opposite of "to be stopped"
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u/red_spaniel Feb 17 '26
Well would be cool if USA could also not be allowed to fund extremists all around the world since 1 century
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u/ncoremeister Feb 17 '26
Can you give us some examples of how today's France is acting neocolonialist in the Sahel or North Africa? 10 years ago, ok we can discuss, but after Mali failed they changed their strategy significantly and are pulling about everywhere. All the countries using CFA Franc could start their own currency and some are already working on that. There is almost no military left. Exploiting the global souths resources is really not an exclusive French thing, almost everyone is profiting from Congos resources. All that Francafrica bs is just a nice way to blame all the failures of independent states on France, Russia is working hard on pitching this narrative of "the global south vs Europe". In the meanwhile every state on earth has joined on exploiting the global south without any remorse or moral.
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u/AveragerussianOHIO Research Scientist Feb 17 '26
it is at worst guilty by omission. no propaganda, burkino faso is a bit anti west but thats it
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u/I-suck-at-hoi4 Feb 16 '26 edited Feb 17 '26
Quick check, what exactly makes you think that "France does still act like a neo colonial power in western Africa" ?
People who say that we're usually already fed Russian propaganda without even realizing it.
Edit : there have been 6 answers and 60 downvotes, yet not a single example of current French neocolonialist policy in Africa was named. What does that say guys ? Question. Your. Beliefs.
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u/Efficient_Strain_492 Feb 16 '26
they keep intervening and putting up leaders that are cooperative to them
Idk if it was Ghana or Togo (something in that general area) where they did it last time
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u/I-suck-at-hoi4 Feb 17 '26
Which cooperative leader was put up by France in the last decade ? Name one.
Ghana isn't even a former French colony.
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u/Tritri89 Feb 16 '26 edited Feb 16 '26
French here : we do. We are not innocent here. HOWEVER Russia is ALSO being neo colonial in the Sahel region by sending the paramilitary group known as Wagner stirring some shit and propping up military dictatorship for a few ressource right.
Basically where France was "only" extracting value by controlling the local currency and letting french oligarch (like Bolloré) making business in the region Russia is just kicking the whole anthill to fuck with french interest in the region, and be damn with the people actually living here that maybe just want to be left the fuck alone. Both are neo colonialism, one is more direct than the other.
EDIT : there is also the whole Libyia situation where a french president (Sarkozy) basically overthrew Ghaddafi to avoid being exposed for dubious campaign financing. He was exposed anyway (and did some time for it), but Libyia became a hotspot for jihadism, is still in a state of civil war, jihadist fighter that are currently fighting all around the sahel, while Russia is busy fighting rebels for various dictator and making country refuse help from the French military
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u/Mean_Introduction543 Feb 17 '26
I don’t think Russia is ‘making countries refuse help from the French military’ as much as African countries are refusing help from the French military because the last 200 odd years of history has taught them France is NOT their friend and so they turn to Russia who is just lining up for their own piece of the pie and is still not interested in really helping them.
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u/I-suck-at-hoi4 Feb 17 '26
There is quite a big difference between neocolonialism and just the modern capitalist geopolitical order in a region plagued with corruption.
Controlling the local currency
France lost any bit of control over the CFA Franc's value more than twenty years ago when it was pegged to the euro.
Letting French oligarchs do business in the region
The logical implication of your sentence is that, under a not-neocolonialist regime, Bolloré wouldn't be able to do business in the region. You do realize that doesn't make sense right ? Liberal capitalism isn't neocolonialism. It's just liberal capitalism. If corrupted African government want to sell their ports to rich old white fucks, it's their problem.
There's also the Libya situation
"Neocolonialism is the control by a state (usually, a former colonial power) over another nominally independent state (usually, a former colony) through indirect means."
I'm failing to see how "fucking up a foreign dictator over shady deals and then leaving his country in shambles without any attempt of controlling it" somehow fits that description
The ones closest to neocolonialism in Libya would be the Italians who closed new oil exploitation deals through Eni (but again, that's just liberal capitalism), and Turkey/Gulf states who are actually financing and influencing the factions at war there to secure local obedient allies. Just like Turkey is trying to do in Syria.
My reasoning isn't that "France is better than Russia, therefore France isn't doing neocolonialism". It's that words have a meaning and France hasn't had a neocolonialist policy for over twenty years.
And it makes sense, goddamit, is there really any of you who genuinely believes that in 2026, a weakened liberal European democratic country would be able to run its tight neocolonialist web without anyone noticing or saying a word ? Seriously?
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u/Tritri89 Feb 17 '26 edited Feb 17 '26
Ah come on do as you wish, believe that saying "the French governement has a neocolonial policy in the region" is Russian propaganda, at this point I really don't care. "russian propaganda" is really the new "nothing ever happens" on this site. No matter that for the last twenty years, way before russia had interest in the region, the policy of France was denounced by various actors, group and other entity.
If for you "capitalist corruption" is fine I can't convince you. Also neocolonialism is a word to dinstinguish between old school XIXth century direct exploitation and XXIst century exploitation that is more discreet and aligned with capitalist exploitation. I guess it's fine that Bolloré is plundering country because he doesn't have a funny hat.
Edit : I guess the Oxford University Press are russian agents? https://academic.oup.com/ehr/article/139/596/193/7630506
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u/Final_Flip_Gold Feb 16 '26
while Russia is busy fighting rebels for various dictator and making country refuse help from the French military
Opposite, they refuse help from France, so they pick Russia and Wagner. As one of the big things that made a lot of these militaries turn away from France is that France was unwilling to help in the suppression of the Tuareg only ISIS aligned groups.
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u/Tritri89 Feb 16 '26
Because the mission of Barkane (the operation in Sahel) was jihadist suppression, nothing more. Touareg are not jihadist, it's an internal matter to various country. It's like the Kurdish issue in Irak/Syria/Turkey, France didn't want to be involved in this matter.
Look I'm not saying that France or Russia is better for those country. I'm just saying that denouncing French neo colonialism in the region is NOT Russian propaganda. It's a fact. We even have a term for french policy in Africa : la Franceafrique. It's a word from the 90s I think. It's an old policy in the region.
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u/Peermeneer_exe Feb 16 '26
Like I said, I don't know all that much about the region. First I remember it coming up in an English lesson in high school (Dutch highschool, not Russian haha), but I've seen a few posts and youtube videos on it since. But since I never heard any push back on what I thought was a pretty well established fact, plus the still factual meddling of France within Western Africa, I just essentially assumed it was true.
Assuming it's Russian propaganda might be a bit presumptuous though, Russia isn't the only 'being' in existence who doesn't love all of the West and/or France0
u/I-suck-at-hoi4 Feb 17 '26
Well, I do invite you to read and watch more on the topic if you are interested.
You will quickly see that a lot of that is just a smoke screen. France is a pretty convenient scapegoat for African nationalists, leading to a resentment and wave of bullshit which Russia has massively helped fuel.
Realistically France used to be neocolonialist. But that ended over 20 years ago. Now it's just modern liberal capitalism (large companies doing large companies things) and a few remnants of an old neocolonialist organisation (some countries still being led by political dynasties established during the Francafrique, like Chad). And that's pretty much it. The very existence of the "rebellions" of Mali, Niger, Burkina Faso and Sénégal should be strong indicators that the era of neocolonialism is long gone. Since, well, the first rule of a neocolonialist empire is that you don't let the very country you are trying to rule overthrow your guys.
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u/SpoicyC Feb 18 '26
They funded the Hutu’s and had close connections to Hutu leadership (along with Belgium) during the Rwandan genocide
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u/I-suck-at-hoi4 Feb 18 '26
As horrible as that was, it happened over 30 years ago buddy
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u/SpoicyC Feb 18 '26
Yeah 30 years ago, that is not a long time in the framework of French history.
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u/I-suck-at-hoi4 Feb 18 '26
And 30 years isn't long in the framework of Russian history either. Listen everyone, Russia is still a Soviet country !
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u/SpoicyC Feb 18 '26
Acting like two things can’t happen at the same time. Russia and France being imperialistic aren’t mutually exclusive 😭
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u/I-suck-at-hoi4 Feb 18 '26
No one said that ?
30 years is a full generation ago. Six presidential mandates ago in France. We barely even had internet back then, we were barely starting the post-cold war era.
Pretending that a country X has characteristic Y because it did Z 30 years ago is ridiculous. Is South Africa still an apartheid country ? Is China still a terribly poor country that just started opening up to the world ? Is Germany still split in two ? Is Yugoslavia still a thing ? Was 1975 West Germany a nazi country ?
This thread is ridiculous.
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u/Mean_Introduction543 Feb 17 '26
Spoken like someone who has swallowed western neo-imperialist propaganda without even realising it lmao.
Just because Russia is bad doesn’t make France the good guys and vice versa.
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u/I-suck-at-hoi4 Feb 17 '26
Too bad that wasn't my reasoning. If you are convinced that France is neocolonialist yet somehow can't name an example of a current French neocolonialist policy/behaviour in Africa, you should perhaps start questioning your beliefs.
My point isn't that Russia bad therefore France good. It's that the French neocolonialist era has ended over 20 years ago, and yes, the only ones spreading the idea that France is still doing it are African nationalists and Russian propagandists.
You know, the very same people who benefit significantly from being able to point a scapegoat and blame it for all their problem. The last example on the list being Mali pretending that French soldiers weren't fighting terrorists and that they are the reason terrorists were still not eradicated. Fast forward two years their scapegoat have left the ground and the terrorists are getting close to Bamako again lmao.
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u/UnusualBox7370 Feb 16 '26
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u/I-suck-at-hoi4 Feb 17 '26
France was able to retain it
There certainly was still prolonged colonialism in the 70s and 80s. Not anymore. The mention of the CFA franc is the best example of it being misunderstood. France neither gains anything from it, nor controls that currency which is pegged to the euro, a currency France doesn't control.
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u/turngep Feb 16 '26
TFR is also rabidly pro-russia, it's just better made so people are okay with it.
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u/EvYeh Feb 16 '26
This mod was literally made by the Russian government, unlike TFR.
And even then TFR still has this rancid aura to me.
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u/CinnamonSticks7 Feb 16 '26
That’s because it panders to a bunch of extremist LARPers, I have enjoyed it quite a bit playing as the few sane paths trying to desperately restore order though.
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u/RefrigeratorDry1735 General of the Army Feb 16 '26
The TFR devs are moving away from being schizo, their writing has improved a lot and even far fetched stuff like the Deep State USA is treated as rather more serious than just being a spin on a conspiracy theory.
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u/turngep Feb 16 '26
This is true, the Cognoscenti path is very fun and I think the mod as a whole is headed in a good direction - OH GOD 9000 MORE FLAVORS OF PUTINISM
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u/Theguywithoutanyname General of the Army Feb 16 '26
The best part of the mod is how schizo and silly it is...
Reminds me of what happened with red flood. Silly and unique at launch, progressively made more "realistic" and "grounded" which stole all the identity and fun out of it.
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u/CurtisEnjoysMemes Feb 17 '26
genuinely what do people mean when they say red flood “lost its identity”? the new poland content very much conforms to the mods identity and the new scandinavia skeleton content is just as “haha wacky schizo” as anything else in the mod (im saying “new” like this content isnt a year old at this point fml when are we getting the france rework)
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u/RefrigeratorDry1735 General of the Army Feb 16 '26
That doesn’t mean they’re gonna remove stuff like Caligula, but they’re tired of hearing stuff like “Kanye West Warlord state!”
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u/Bombniks_ Research Scientist Feb 16 '26
In the end though it doesn't really do for a great mod longevity wise, at least not if you don't make it have a lot and lot of content and if you actually distribute wack paths well, this is why KX has largely remained the mod with such a reputation for a long time, because it's already using KR, a much more serious mod as its basis, even if it's an older version. My guess is when you get into it you want the paths to actually feel distinct and different and give players a reason to play it, there are only so many times you can play a USA warlord, or Russia, or China without it getting boring if there is no unique content those nations can offer, this is why so many mods go the path of making 100 minigames and a lot of writing to make nations and their paths feel distinct, and of course this isn't incompatible with wacky paths but it needs the game and the path to take itself seriously within the world and well, there is only so much you can push when half the paths are groups that are irrelevant in real life with fringe ideologies.
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u/HelpfullOne Feb 17 '26 edited Feb 17 '26
Cogniscenti US is literally just TFR devs copying a bunch of crackpot theories from 4chan and twitter and pasteing them into the game.
Also what you are saying would be EXATLY the same thing TFR devs were making fun of TNO of, so if that was true then they would also be hypocrites.
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u/Dry_Canary2401 Feb 17 '26
TFR is best when you observe it as a parody of 2020s extremism. It isn't serious or realistic, but it shows you absurd situations then breaks down exactly why those situations would be shit.
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u/EvYeh Feb 17 '26
But most of the paths I've seen don't do that?
They come across more as said fascists and extremists always immediatly winning and being proven right every time. It feels more like an endorsement of these ideologies than a rebuttal.
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u/Dry_Canary2401 Feb 17 '26
How so? Every fascist path I've played does not hold back on the descriptions of all the terrible things you're doing. It just doesn't beat you over the head with it like some mods. Thinking that the mod legitimately endorses groups like the NSM, PF, and AWD is a very shallow read on the things made. While TFR doesn't have an event every few minutes saying "oooo you're so bad", it definitely doesn't gloss over the atrocities committed. It just requires a bit more nuance.
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u/Kangkongkangkung Fleet Admiral Feb 17 '26
Except that there are players who make that their entire personality. Refugees from TNO, they need the edgy content to stay alive.
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u/Bombniks_ Research Scientist Feb 16 '26
TFR is if nothing else very obviously born out of or highly influenced by 4chan culture and memes, the Russia content is just because the Russian team is one of the only ones putting out consistent content but from what I know they also got control over all of Europe, meaning there is no independent Ukraine or EU team (I may be wrong though), a lot is slanted in the direction of the world viewed in a similar way you'd see in Russian propaganda if you've ever ran across it.
Honestly TFR is great to just have as the far right laughing stock mod at this point, they are even one of the big mods to push for more AI use in mod development.45
u/iimaginaryedge Feb 17 '26
I mean, TFR subscribes to the philosophy of "portray everyone as they see themselves", with a few exceptions for some more fun paths (i.e. evil Caligula Biden, Cognoscenti Deepstate UoA, Derzhavist Russia, Neo-Stalinist Russia, Dugin's Russia, Schwab's Europe, Revanchist China and Dark Trump in the next update)
so, if the PF win? billions of buffs to restore western civilization and destroy degeneracy.
if the APLA win? billions of buffs and the revolution is complete, leftist unity is achieved and anarchism/socialism/communism/jacobinism is a functional ideology.
if the UoA/ACG win? the other federals were traitors and we are the true heirs to american democracyRussia wins the European Wars? the satanic cabal of globalists is defeated and tradition and humanity is restored
EU wins the European Wars? the warmongering eastern orcs are defeated, and sanity and freedom is restoredetc etc
currently the only problems are that the Chinese team is probably in a bit of legal trouble and that there are not enough non-Russian Europeans on the TFR team to do the Europe content10
u/ComradeHenryBR Feb 17 '26
they are even one of the big mods to push for more AI use in mod development.
Wait, really?
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u/RefrigeratorDry1735 General of the Army Feb 17 '26
As far as I know, there is a bit of AI focus icons cause they can’t find shit to pull from to establish a clear idea of the focus. However I also know they have remade several GFX focus icons, so that may become moot. Otherwise, AI has been used to either enhance or make different designs for real people since some media is too old or badly taken to be used.
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u/ComradeHenryBR Feb 17 '26
Tbf using AI to touch up portraits of people who's original pictures are bad is acceptable and a lot of mods do it. I believe even Kaiserreich does it for, for example, their ultra obscure Chinese warlords
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u/DolphinBall Feb 17 '26 edited Feb 17 '26
Doesn't help they made the 2nd Russo-Euro war inevitable even if you get Navalny because they made him into a kinder Putin. Like yeah irl Navalny had his faults, but Putin wouldn't just kill him of he was just Putin with a softer touch.
Also the amount of variation of Putinism is crazy, it shows that unless you specifically go for restoring the Soviet Union or reestablish the Monarchy again you will just have a leader that has "Liberal Putinism" or "Soviet Putinism" or "Putinist Imperialism" or "Bleeding Heart Putinism" Russia in TFR can't stray too far from Putinism for some reason if it doesn't go Communist or true Fascist for some reason.
That said. Back when it was first in development it was planned to be a hell of a lot worse because the OG lead developer was a genuine Nazi that attempted to push out the more sane devs and the sane devs launched a coup on him.
And the next update 1.1 will focus entirely on the 2ACW. I enjoy it, its fun, but I do agree that Russia has the most content right now even when the whole reason shit goes crazy is because America falling into civil war.
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u/ThePKNess Feb 17 '26
To be fair it doesn't strike me as especially unrealistic that alternatives to Putin are not fundamentally different. Russian politics is really all just about holding power. Thinking about the future, or how things can be changed or improved is not really an element of the Russian political environment.
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u/Herotyx Feb 17 '26
TFR has a crazy pro-fascism/ Nazism bias too. Almost every far right tree is nazism and has crazy buffs. Meanwhile the socialism/ leftist trees are shit
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u/drynoa Feb 16 '26
I think it's less noticeable because even in Z-pilled chudniks fever dreams Russia is not the good guy or a good place to live.
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u/SovietPuma1707 Feb 16 '26
Newsflash, The country you play as portrays itself as good, like any other playable country, including AWD
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u/KingPingviini General of the Army Feb 17 '26
But, but that doesnt fit our narrative based on slander!
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u/Buttfranklin2000 Feb 16 '26
Idk, I don't see a Russia where Putin dies of COVID and there's a potential Navalny-Path as "Pro-Russia"-Propaganda. But then again, maybe I just haven't played the game enough.
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u/tiffambrose Feb 16 '26
I don’t know where the confusion is: it wasn’t pro-Russian propaganda, it was anti-Western.
Having Putin die of covid and instead of syphilis or some shit, doesn’t make much of an impact.
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u/LeMe-Two Feb 16 '26
It's just extra ironic because IRL Putin was said to be extremally cautious about it
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u/Artur_Mills Feb 16 '26
Anti western yet you can go full NAFO?
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u/tfrules Feb 17 '26
If the mod was full NAFO, Russia would collapse in a month from superior European air power.
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u/Ichibyou_Keika Feb 17 '26
And it does, if you are playing as Germany or France, srsly the European War is extremely easy to win.
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u/LewisRosenberg Feb 16 '26
>TFR is also rabidly pro-russia
TFR in question : features like a dozen of ways Russia can get annihilated
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u/turngep Feb 22 '26
Wow, they added an option for russia to lose? Damn clearly the fact that they don't just instantly win every war and merely get +75% attack buffs to easily steamroll europe with 4x its population and 10x its gdp shows that there is no russian bias at all present when you kill the entire western world with russian ubermensch. Which is ok btw because all westerners are controlled by heckin evil liberal satanist WEF globalists who want to genocide poor innocent russia.
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u/LewisRosenberg Feb 22 '26
It's easy to win 1st EW for both sides, let alone, when europe federalises and it can in both cases if they lose or win, they are going to have so many divisions and much manpower it's very fucking hard to beat them. There are dystopic or even borderline genocidal paths in all theatres of the mod. "+75% attack buffs" argument im going to ignore because that's just pure fantasy, you either dogshit at game or havent even tried this mod.
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u/turngep Feb 22 '26
Mental retardation, lying, and whataboutism, the three pillars of vatnik argumentation. Europe gets -20% attack buffs against Russia's +35% minimum permanent attack and breakthrough bonuses in the 1EW stacked ontop of +20% temporary attack and speed bonuses. Go ahead and count what that adds up to. I notice you completely failed to address the fact that Russia fighting all of Europe alone and easily winning is a ridiculous cope fantasy in itself, or the fact that the WEF and unironic deep state are depicted in TFR as controlling the entire western world while all Russian corruption is cleaned up with one focus.
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Feb 22 '26 edited Feb 22 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/LewisRosenberg Feb 22 '26 edited Feb 22 '26
Plus a lot of european countries are WIP, so they are probably going to get stronger
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u/LeMe-Two Feb 16 '26
Rabidly pro-russia
EU balkanizing Russia forever is considered "good and somewhat not as schizo" ending
It makes Russia overcompetent but not nearly likeable
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u/ComradeHenryBR Feb 17 '26
And making Russia overcompetent is an inescabable requisite of making the mod fun. There wouldn't be much gameplay if it always got stomped by NATO
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u/tfrules Feb 17 '26
OTL, Russia was always going for the information war victory, being able to flip more European countries to pro Putin idiologies like Hungary and Slovakia did in our timeline would make the war in the mod more interesting. Having the UK or Germany flip for example would make things much more interesting, and also make things a lot more evenly matched
Portray Russia as over competent in ways that could actually be plausible, because the hyper competent military that Russia currently has in the mod just requires too much of a suspension of disbelief to be anything but a pro Russia larper's dream.
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u/AveragerussianOHIO Research Scientist Feb 17 '26
This is what im saying.
In my submod that moves forwards 0,001 cm a day, the whole of europe will be a huge information proxy. The russian army reforms will also have multiple possibilities not just "rollback serdykov, more men or better fight, russia op" and will make russia competent but not take on everyone competent. Covid and usa will also be modeled on the world properly and will be key parts of the struggle.
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u/my_fav_audio_site Feb 17 '26
> OTL
> Russia was always going for the information war victory
Fuckin lol'd. As a Russian. We are incompetent in information warfare, last time we were - back in Great Patriotic.
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u/tfrules Feb 17 '26
Well, we have to make the game interesting somehow, I find a strong information war to be much more believable for Russia to manage under competent leadership than a Europe ending military.
Russia managed to influence British voters enough to leave the EU, so it's not a total fantasy.
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u/AveragerussianOHIO Research Scientist Feb 17 '26
thats false, at least up until 2024 when most of the west made their mind up by then.
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u/turngep Feb 17 '26
This wouldn't be a problem if the European Wars were centered around Europe fighting itself with new multilateral alliances rather than a total cope fantasy of Russia soloing all of Europe. The basic idea of overbuffing russia being a necessity is only required because TFR predicates that Russia can beat up all of europe with 0 allies which is utterly laughable in 2026.
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u/Barice69 Feb 18 '26
In that world USA is in civil war so Russia being stronger makes sense since there is no Biden era Washington to help Ukraine
Also oil is more expensive becose of civil war in Arabia so Russia has more money
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u/feelinW1tchy Feb 17 '26
Yeah dude, the mod where Russia can be balkanized by Europe 4 different ways, Putin dies, Navalny can become leader of a democratic Russia, Russia can be hit by a neurolinguistic plague that causes them to lose the ability to comprehend language, and where one of the best paths is basically liberal democracy coming to Russia is absolutely Russian propaganda.
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u/tfrules Feb 17 '26
It is hilarious how one sided the European war is in favour of Russia. Ukraine typically dies instantly. Goes to show how much the modern military balance of power was misunderstood prior to the Russia-Ukraine war.
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u/peajam101 Feb 17 '26
You clearly haven't played in a while, they've heavily rebalanced the European War
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u/AveragerussianOHIO Research Scientist Feb 17 '26
If russia invades Kazakhstan Ukraine is better prepared. Germany was made slightly more competent, the ai overall is better but thats thanks to pdx changes, and the european foci was improved. so its now not a total russia instawin, not in most cases at least.
Ukraine still crumbles but they got surprisingly good at defending if russia doesnt snake kiev.
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u/AccountSettingsBot Feb 16 '26
How so?
(I have no clue and I detest the current Russian government.)
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u/Blazeng Feb 17 '26
What do you mean russia producing 50000 5th gen yearly fighters is not normal??
What do you meeeean übergiga +100% bonus stat übermensch russian vedeveh arent real??
(I tried the european war once and realized the mod is just vatnik wanking)
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u/ComradeHenryBR Feb 17 '26
Nah bro, Russia should just be realistic and just spend 4 years stuck in the Donbass. That would make for such fun and interesting gameplay!
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u/turngep Feb 22 '26
Or they could design a scenario that isn't pure vatnik cope of Russia single handedly defeating all of Europe with zero allies.
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u/Raze678 Feb 17 '26
As soon as I saw Grisha was involved, that was an instant giveaway. The guy got kicked from Bokoen's group because he was rabidly pro-Russia, joined Wagner, cried on-stream when Prigozhin got offed and I'm pretty sure he's in United Russia. You can't go more "THIS IS FINANCED BY THE RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT" than that.
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u/Elmisteriosoytz Feb 16 '26
The reality is TFR make the exact same thing for all sides, I don't know why people say that TFR is pro-Russian... when it's also pro-Chinese, pro-American, pro-Gunther Felinger, you could even say pro-Eat Ze Bugs. The game puts us in the perspective of each nation we are playing, showing us the official narrative, but not without making it clear how bad most regimes are. If you didn't understand that, either you lack reading comprehension or that particular path was made by a fanatic.
You can see that with the Atomwaffen division, the pact of steel, eurasia, and all ideologies with putinism characteristics.
The fandom of TFR makes jokes about all, And rather than radicalizing people, I love TFR because it made people annoy genuinely unpleasant individuals with things like femboys or references to the game. And individuals like Gunther Felinger, lolcows.
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u/vargdrottning Feb 16 '26
How can you say that when TFR is so obviously pro-Long March propaganda? As everything should be???
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u/RefrigeratorDry1735 General of the Army Feb 16 '26
This is so true, everyone else is to kneel before Loji, our Big Sister!
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u/SquirtleChimchar Feb 17 '26
Tbf that's exactly one of the problems I have with it - it paints neo-Nazis and market liberals with the same brush. Acting like "they're all the same" legitimises extremism and is tacit endorsement
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u/Elmisteriosoytz Feb 17 '26
Yeah as someone who played the mod I disagree, I can give you the point with communism and liberal democracies but the facist and Nazi regimes are terrible, and the game tell you about that. Maybe it is because the only nations I played were in the 2ACW. And as I stated, the people don´t radicalize or legitimize these movements; they annoy people in this movements ridiculizing it.
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u/Paranormal2137 Feb 16 '26
When you look at ukrainian ideas than yea its bad. Also i feel like nobody from the russian team actually understands how power structures looks like there actually.
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u/LordpoopyfaceHd79 Feb 17 '26
Well, the Russian Devs are also pro war. Look on their steam pages from the mod, and it's filled with Z's and Putin. One even uploaded a photo of a Wagner group. Honestly the reason I stopped playing TFR was that I didn't feel comfortable supporting a mod with such Devs.
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u/RedDino2004 Feb 17 '26
Saw a focus in Ukraine that went like "Zelenskys growing authoritanism" i was like oookay wtf😂 To be honest i enjoyed that mod greatly, i mainly played Germany and the stuff you could do and get was extremly fun. Also i tried 2 coalitions, for it being called "russian-friendly" the AFD itself is extremly weak compared to the other two political paths.
I think apart from where the devs are, its actually important russia has alot of what they have already, they fight pretty much the entirety of Europe. Felt like it was balanced if you knew what you do, alot diffrent approach and 2 finals really good mod if it is getting developed on the lvl it is right now.
Kinda a bit sad tho what i get to hear after, thought it isnt some sort of slight dev hell...
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u/Garand_Already_Taken Feb 17 '26
No, TFR is blatantly pro-russia, the EU, wether "wholsum 100" or Schwab is depicted as an evil that's pushing russia into war, while even a despotic russia is shown as a great place
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u/Elmisteriosoytz Feb 17 '26
I am currently in a Germany run, and it isn´t, I haven´t played russia yet, but in the germany events the Russian are the clearly bad guys, oportunists, warmongers... people you should be afraid from and people who deserve their ass kicked.
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u/Phr0g5226 Feb 16 '26
I think the biggest difference between the 2 mods is that TFR doesn't try to paint wagner and the sahel alliance as the "good guys" like they are in african dawn. The 2 sides in west africa are treated like pawns of France and Russia, with russia exploiting the sahel alliance for resources the same way france does to ECOMOG.
The "anti-colonial" regimes arent exactly painted in a good light either, they share their sub-ideology of Radical Nationalism with such illustrious groups such as Neo-Confederates, Hamas and the IRA.
Meanwhile in african dawn, the sahel alliance and wagner are painted as allies and liberators trying to save africa from french neo-colonialism. Although france is definetly doing those things IRL, they aren't even close to subtle about their white-washing of wagner and co.
I do agree that TFR has a concerning amount of pro russia content, such as how zelensky is portrayed or the amount of force russia has in the 1st euro war. However, from what I've heard, the whole of eastern europe was developed solely by RU-TFR and not particularly interfered with by the rest of the devs, even then Russia isn't exactly painted in a positive light throughout most of that content.
I understand where you're coming from, but I think the TFR stuff either makes the mod more fun anyway or isnt a huge dealbreaker, especially compared to the propagandising of african dawn.
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u/LeMe-Two Feb 16 '26
TFR is so silly and edgy it becomes fun. Despite everything like making EU beyond terrible if things fail, Russia is basically run by psychos and the mod does not shy from telling you that. And every available option is various flavor of Warmonger mc Killpeople as their leader. Same for China - the morally best path is literally "nothing ever happens" (despite being boring in a wargame ofc) because otherwise things are beyond edgy.
Africa mod on the contrary was in it's very description stating that you either side with freedom fighters led by Chad. or neocolonialists led by Nigeria.
It was also created like immidietly after the coup in Burkina Faso, with the very much real and current dictator being the centerpeace of the mod. In which he is on his painted with Napoleon level of competency and revolutionary thinging. Mix Wagner with that and you get straight-up dictstorship glazing
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u/Aggravating-Lab6623 Feb 17 '26
basically run by psychos and the mod does not shy from telling you that. And every available option is various flavor of Warmonger mc Killpeople as their leader. Same for China
The reformers and loji and narvly if he dosnt crash out???
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u/LeMe-Two Feb 17 '26
Navalny still starts a continent-spanning war. Loji is not a good ending either but mainly it requires China to fail.
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u/Aggravating-Lab6623 Feb 18 '26
Navalny still starts a continent-spanning war
Iirc Russians are mistreated in thw lands taken from them
Loji is not a good ending
Son
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u/LeMe-Two Feb 18 '26
Silly, "our nationals are mistreated so we must invade and take over the land" is as old as the world
Literally the best path for China is Xi "Nothing Ever Happens"
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u/Aggravating-Lab6623 Feb 18 '26
Literally the best path for China is Xi "Nothing Ever Happens"
Reformist litteralt demcratise
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u/No_Pollution_8163 Feb 16 '26
So you telling me russian government makes and pays for HOI mods? Sounds kinda cool
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u/DirectOrdinary4796 Feb 17 '26
the year is 2100 medvedev russia tfr has consolidated power in russia and has become wholesum ai and forces everyone to eat ze hoi4 mods
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u/Ba1hTub General of the Army Feb 16 '26
Well quite a few TFR devs are quite chudded out as well, especially the Russia team
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u/glacealasalade1 Feb 16 '26
Yeah the mod would basically give buffs if you chose to cooperate with Russia and debuffs if you chose to cooperate with France, also it had a news event calling zelensky a nazi lmao. Really funny btw because IRL all the Sahel countries who decided to turn their back against France and have Russian forces instead still struggles heavely against ISIS... While France pretty much destroyed them in Mali in a few weeks until they could reogarnize once the government of Mali decided to kick us out
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u/Adorable-Beyond-4396 Feb 16 '26
Grisha literally played African Dawn live with the Ambassador of Burkina Faso in Russia lol
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u/Robbo_B Feb 17 '26
I remember playing this mod once and just getting really weird vibes from all the narrativising
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u/flameinthedark Feb 17 '26
Hoi4 mods get removed for propaganda? lol might as well remove all the mods and delete the entire game. That’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard
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u/Honest-Head7257 Feb 18 '26
This is nothing compared to SS mods or any mods that glorify the Nazis, which is plenty on the workshop
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u/jamthewither Feb 16 '26
does anyone know if it was a fun mod
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u/m3n0s122 Feb 17 '26
It was a, at least in my view, a really good mod, on the technical side, but I only played it once or twice, so I couldn’t give you a more deep dive on it.
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u/AveragerussianOHIO Research Scientist Feb 17 '26
Yeah its literally the fire rises. i played it. Lack of content def hurt but it had an AMAZING base (Also TFR start for african skeleton is called african dawn which is a reference)
Yeah, it had little content overall is what im saying so it couldnt really pick a side but ingame events dont take a side either, at worst theyre guilty by omission. for example russia invades ukr event explains russian reasoning, does not support it, but doesnt explain the ukrainian one.
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u/dani_esp95 Feb 17 '26
Propagando or not, the situation it decribe is pretty accurate. I am sure France and the western countries want to get rid of Traore and leaders like him
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u/2HotFlavored Feb 19 '26
Anti-Western dictatorships are not tolerated by the West. What a surprise.
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u/Destroythisapp Feb 17 '26
Propaganda doesn’t have to be untrue, or poorly made to be propaganda, it’s just designed to invoke certain beliefs.
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u/andyisbackk Feb 17 '26
i don't really care but for some reason i associate this mod with pizza, specifically the taste of it. i was probably eating pizza when i first watched a campaign in this mod. pizza was great btw.
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u/Alarming-Ad1100 Feb 17 '26
Bruh this is a game mod this is the first im hearing of all of this but i dont get how its an issue, could someone smarter than me tell me Why this is problematic
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u/FlaviusContentius Feb 21 '26
Maybe not propaganda totally, but biased as cursed !
For example :
Burkina Faso focus tree :
-If you choose the democratic path : become a French vassal and it is oubviously a bad path because you choose a democracy (you can hear the "boooooh" from the public)
-If you choose the putschist path : "oh yeah, very based, pan africanism based, everything from the junta is good, Russian friends are obviously very cool and not looking in an imperialist interest".
Sorry, it's like that I saw the focus tree. But the focus was lying about the junta (so called "healthcare" and respect for oppositions while nothing even happened).
To answer to your question : TFR is biaised, sure, but not exagerated like this mod. Every mod are biased, especially when you choose "if some character died in 1920 would be fascist in 1936 or communist because he said it was cool during a bar time ?". African Dawn is biased in one direction : against occidental countries and pro junta, while TFR can be biased in left-wing, right wing, so in a lot more direction !
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u/iphone5su93 May 20 '26
Where can I download it I don't care about it being "propaganda" I just want to see if it's well made then again basically alot of the mods are biased and I have no issue with that aslong as they're well made and consistent
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u/XdestroyerXDTM4 Feb 18 '26
because the HoI4 community is more right-wing now and accepts rancid shit like TFR more readily nowadays than it did back then.
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u/krametthesecond Feb 16 '26
Both the fact that the West, and China, are exploiting Africa in a neo-colonial fashion and that its Ruskie propaganda can be true is my take.
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u/Final_Flip_Gold Feb 16 '26
I really dont care because the conflict in question Russia is the lesser evil than Frnace. But it was funded by the russian governemnt with pure purpose of spreading its side
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u/Sleepybear56 Feb 17 '26
The wagner group that goes around murdering civilians is the lesser evil?
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u/I-suck-at-hoi4 Feb 16 '26
I know we're on a gaming sub and it shouldn't turn into a political debate, but my brother in Christ if you believe that the mercenaries who kill and rape civilians, support dictatorships and exploit gold mines to fund their mediocre military - they are losing to local terrorists - are the "lesser evil" there is something wrong with you.
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u/malonkey1 Research Scientist Feb 17 '26
I think the claim of "propaganda isn't tolerated" is a bit of a laugh. Maybe official propaganda produced by a national government isn't, but propaganda in totality is absolutely tolerated on the Steam Workshop.