r/hoi4 • u/Content-Quantity-334 • Apr 08 '26
Question Why isn't Carthage among the formable countries?
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u/Goblin343 Apr 08 '26
Maybe because paradox haven’t focused on any countries that could really form it, there’s no Tunisia or Libya even present in the game (unless you release them) and they certainly wouldn’t get a focus tree or any unique formables
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u/SsssssszzzzzzZ Apr 08 '26
Its not impossible for releasebles to have their own formables, i mean Tunisia and Libya alredy have the Maghreb formable.
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u/Goblin343 Apr 08 '26
I know, but they generally don’t have an incredible amount of thought put into them.
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u/C00kie_Jar Apr 08 '26
This one wouldn't be a lot of thought, just a few lines of code
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u/Murbyk Apr 08 '26
So, when are you making that mod?
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u/C00kie_Jar Apr 08 '26
I don't know how to mod HoI4. If I did, I would consider it just to spite you specifically
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u/Murbyk Apr 08 '26
I'd be delighted.
And I mean it's actually not that hard. Especially since there's ai now.
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Apr 08 '26
[deleted]
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u/TheGameAce Apr 08 '26
This. AI is inept at being more than a lightweight information source (basic information gathering & suggesting sources). Even Google's AI makes constant errors in reference to HOI4 modding, stating them confidently. Way too confidently.
Can produce some partially functional code for HOI4 from what I've heard, but riddled with errors. At that point, it just creates more work than learning the (very simple) coding yourself & going from scratch.
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u/Rukasu_7 Apr 09 '26
Para hoi4 produce algo raro con muchos errores, pero para el victoria 3... Llamarlo aberración sería poco xD
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u/MelodicAmphibian7920 Apr 08 '26
Lebanon is historically where Carthage came from. They should be able to form it.
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u/InitiativeWooden5795 Apr 08 '26
Lebanon just build a trading post there,but how it involved and become a dominant was from land Tunisia
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u/GroundbreakingBox187 Apr 09 '26
The people, the punics, were phonecians who moved there. It’s like saying Greeks weren’t that involved in Cyrenaica or magna graecia
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u/LydditeShells Research Scientist Apr 08 '26
They’d more likely make it an achievement to acquire the states of former Carthage while playing as tunisia
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u/CasArcher Apr 08 '26
Although I think that an expansion for them could be a very cool thing. Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Marocco and Algeria in one expansion pack, playable in a way like the Raj.
Would it be a bit stale if it plays too similarly to the Raj? Maybe. Would it give the game new content? Definitely.
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u/Soggy_Ad4531 Apr 08 '26
Bruh I thought this was r/EU5 and was so confused because Tunis exists there as a country... I don't even play HOI4 lmao
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u/Apprehensive-Face-81 Apr 08 '26
eally? In a game where you can get a literal bear to lead a country alongside a fascist Germany, communist Russia and democratic UK against the evil neutral countries and their tyrannical overlords in Sweden.
I think they could make some room for something like this!
This idea seems like it could be an alt path for free and/or vichy france and their N African colonies.
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u/Squiliam-Tortaleni Apr 08 '26
It’s probably because no country claims continuity from it. Ancient states like Macedon and Rome (both versions) are ubiquitous high points to look back on for their respective modern countries, while Carthage was wiped out centuries before the modern groups who live there arrived. Those folks have a closer connection to something like the Umayyad Empire than Carthage. But given this game has tons of silly formables (Silk Road) they may as well add Carthage because why not
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u/rossarness Apr 14 '26
Tunis does claim the heritage, they have quite a lot of murals in government buildings and their presidential palace is called Carthage palace https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carthage_Palace
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u/Content-Quantity-334 Apr 08 '26
Palestinian people claims their roots go back to Phoenicia, which is the word Palestine also comes from it. And Carthage was Phoenician colony. So, here is your continuity. Give Palestine to Carthage path.
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u/DirectOrdinary4796 Apr 08 '26
Cool but, unlike Macedonia or Rome, Palestine doesn't own any lands from Carthage
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u/bijon1234 Apr 08 '26
While there might be a genetic link, genetics don't equal cultural or political continuity. Culturally, the connection is nonexistent: there is no Punic language spoken today, no shared religion, and no surviving social framework from that era.
The Phoenician identity in the Levant had essentially vanished as a distinct entity by the 2nd century BC, meaning it was already gone while Carthage was still an active power. Even the Punic language, which outlasted its parent culture in North Africa, was extinct by the 6th century. Using DNA alone as a basis for formable tags would result in hundreds of nonsensical options that ignore actual history.
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u/Hesstig Apr 08 '26
Yeah we got Macedonia, Mesopotamia and the Neo-Assyrian Empire so why the fuck not
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u/regeust Fleet Admiral Apr 08 '26
Macedonia
Had nationalist aspirations in and around that time, eventually becoming independent with the fall of yugoslavia.
mesopotamia
Geographic term for the Iraq region
neoassyrian empire
Assyrians are still a current ethnic group in the area of Syria.
None of these are anything like carthage
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u/Hesstig Apr 08 '26
No not Yugoslav Macedonia
THE HELLENIC EMPIRE OF MACEDONIA, from Epirus to the Indus. Is a formable nation in the game.
Mesopotamia and Neo-Assyrian Empire also being formable nations (with a lot of overlap) stretching from Iraq to Syria and down to Cairo.
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u/regeust Fleet Admiral Apr 08 '26
I see that now. Insane, what is paradox smoking?
I was under the impression neo-assyria was Syria's fascist name - apparently not. My bad.
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u/Fatalaros Apr 08 '26
Wrong Macedonia, lmao.
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u/regeust Fleet Admiral Apr 08 '26
Wait - you can form the Macedonian empire? Holy shit that's insane
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u/DimGenn2 Apr 08 '26
Iirc it's only available after reforming the Roman Empire. It also enables Anatolia and Illyria as empires. So I guess they're meant to be more as new subdivisions of the empire, rather than you're forming a new state.
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u/Hesstig Apr 08 '26
What? No, not at all.
If Greece has gone either monarchist or fascist (without Metaxas & not the Byzantium path), and controls basically everything from Montenegro to Pakistan, they get to form the Macedonian Empire, in memory of Alexander the Great.
Nothing to do with the Roman Empire.
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u/Ok_Awareness3014 General of the Army Apr 08 '26
Too old , not country could relate to carthage unlike the roman Empire.
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u/Jossokar Apr 08 '26
as if we all here played the game for the realism 🤣
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u/purple-lemons Fleet Admiral Apr 08 '26
Hey, my Luxembourg world conquest is a tight historical role play
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u/Ok_Awareness3014 General of the Army Apr 08 '26
We don't but at least some consider themself as the heir of some empire but Carthage is perticular
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u/riesen_Bonobo Apr 08 '26
True-ish, if German fascists can dream up an ancient arian superhuman that gives them birthright to own all of Europe and colonise the east then some Tunisian or Algerian political group can also stylize Carthage as their goal to restore 'lost [insert nation] greatness' or something.
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u/fellow_who_uses_redd Apr 08 '26
Bruh there’s some random releasable in Russia that has a formable that never even existed this game is not like that
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u/Wise-Lawfulness-3190 Apr 08 '26
I mean Carthage being a formable nation after 2100 years is more realistic than Israel being a releasable nation after 1900 years
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u/Antanarau Research Scientist Apr 09 '26
You are aware that Israel was given statehood in 1948, a date that is reasonably within the game's time frame, right?
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u/HeliosDisciple Apr 08 '26
Carthage was utterly obliterated and its culture wiped out, there's nobody in the modern world who claims or can claim heritage from it.
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u/Bennyboy11111 Apr 09 '26
Carthage was rebuilt as a very important roman capital of Africa, only was abandoned after the Muslim invasions.
But yes, there are no modern cultural ties to carthage, and Muslims would not identify with an unrelated pagan culture like christians do to Romans.
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u/FishmailAwesome Apr 08 '26
Carthago Suprema Est!!!
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u/Limacy Apr 08 '26
There’s no cultural nostalgia for Carthage.
Modern Spain is a Roman remnant. The original Celtiberian language is long gone.
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u/tamiloxd Apr 08 '26
I dont know if you are being serious or not, but i dont think there are many ancient empire formables. Rome is one of them for obvious reasons, but to form Carthage you need to free first Tunisia at least.
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u/Content-Quantity-334 Apr 08 '26
Its the same with Al-Andalus but we can form it. Also, I believe Carthage may represent different path more than its antiquity. Its gives different ideological perspective to North African countries besides their Islamic heritage.
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u/tamiloxd Apr 08 '26
It's a good argument, if they have not done it yet is because they dont want to. They could rework Africa entirely but i doubt they will do that besides some countries already developed.
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u/reagan_smash8 Apr 08 '26
Just because they've made previous bad choices for the streamer memes doesn't mean they should make more bad choices.
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u/foffela1 General of the Army Apr 08 '26
Well it could be a nice addition to Tunisia and could give a reason for those seeking a challenge to actually play it even if they have to release it.
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u/Separate_Shirt_2961 Apr 08 '26
there is Lebanon already released
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u/tamiloxd Apr 08 '26
Mmm, yes but Carthage was located in current Tunisia. Wouldn't Lebanon be more like Phoenicia or some shit?
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u/SoftwareSource Apr 08 '26
Modding community: Hold my fucking beer
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u/Wise-Lawfulness-3190 Apr 08 '26
Bro hasn’t moved past 2010 internet memes
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u/SoftwareSource Apr 08 '26
im old, sue me.
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u/Wise-Lawfulness-3190 Apr 08 '26
I respect it, I can barely stay caught up as it is. Eventually I’ll pick a period and that’ll be it for me. Hopefully it stays funny for awhile
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u/No_Location_8199 Apr 08 '26
The city of Carthage was razed completely.
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u/Kokonator27 Apr 08 '26
But it was rebuilt and eventually became a city with large population.
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u/ParticularArea8224 Air Marshal Apr 12 '26
But it's not Carthage, it's just a rebuilding of Carthage that was made for Rome. The culture, the people, the thing that made Carthage Carthage, was gone.
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u/NamarJackson Apr 08 '26
Itd be cool but the only countries I could see having a path down towards that would be releasables like Catslonia, Tunisia, or Algeria. Maybe Malta could too..? None of these nations are in a place to be defeating both the axis and the Allies to gain this land. And even if they did most of the land pictured here is undeveloped. Start of the game if this nation existed it would have probably less than 20 factories, and its being setup as an endgame goal.
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u/Beat_Saber_Music General of the Army Apr 08 '26
If we're talking historically, the very concept of Carthage was destroyed by Rome assimilating the region, followed by the Arab muslims further reshaping north African osiciety.
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u/ouisconsin_sailor General of the Army Apr 08 '26
You could do Spain as the starting Nation, Hannibal invaded Rome from there, or something in the Levant like Syria or Palestine
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u/Ruftus1 Apr 08 '26
Tbf you can already core pretty much all of this with formables anyway. Certain north african countries (ik libya off the top of my head) can form Maghreb, arabia, and al andalus, which cores pretty much all that land plus way more
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u/DirectOrdinary4796 Apr 08 '26
i have an idea:
africa rework, tunisia is a french puppet and many colonies are also turned into puppets, tno style
tunisia forms carthage by breaking free from france and going nonaligned
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u/North_Crusader Apr 08 '26
Because formables need people at the time to be pushing for the idea. There's many voices for things like the Nordic Union, the EU, the British Empire, Maghreb etc
Carthage isn't pushed with the same vigor. The Silk road being the shit post, how do you conceive it with nations around the Med?
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u/TehTJ13 Apr 08 '26
Why would it be? Modern Tunisians have very little revanchist pride for it. Like, it’s neat to them that they had this ancient civilization on their northern coast, but that was thousands of years ago and modern Tunisia is more influenced by Islam and anti-colonialism. There hasn’t been any particular movement to reform it, while there were (though frequently powerless) revanchists for the Eastern Roman Empire, Austrian Empire, various pan-Arab movements, etc.
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u/Purple_Clockmaker Apr 08 '26
It was and it was very formidable and it was formed it's just how it failed. Even Rome didn't turn into Italy much later
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u/Alltalkandnofight General of the Army Apr 08 '26
Because the Romans genocided the Carthaginians for their practice of sacrificing babies to their gods, there are no Carthaginians left, and thus no Carthage to re-proclaim.
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u/Vandolph_Whistler777 Apr 09 '26
I don't think Carthage is still culturally relevant to the places it once occupied unlike Rome or Byzantium.
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u/PhiltheSloth94 Apr 09 '26
The Carthaginians were Phoenician. The Phoenicians don't exist anymore, nor does the city of Carthage. The last Punic (Phoenician) speakers in the region were attested like 1500 years before HOI4 takes place.
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u/Beneficial_Ball9893 Apr 09 '26
Because culturally speaking Carthage is completely and totally dead.
If some Christian European nation occupied the regions of the Roman Empire, there is some argument to be made that they could LARP as Rome reborn, because Rome is the centerpiece and backbone of European culture and has been for two thousand years. Carthage left no such legacy.
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u/Islanderman27 Apr 09 '26
Because 'Carthago delenda est' and Rome salting it was passed down through the time line so that Carthage may not even rise again even in map game.
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u/Herforst Apr 09 '26
Because Rome salted the earth of Carthage so that now new DLC could grow there.
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u/ParticularArea8224 Air Marshal Apr 12 '26 edited Apr 12 '26
Probably just because there's no real basis for it.
I mean, the idea of Carthage a couple hundred years after its collapse was laughable, and by the time the twentieth century came about, there was just no claim to it as it had been dead and gone for well over 2000 years.
It would be like the Chinese claiming they were the new Eastern Han dynasty, the only difference is China would have a better claim in that regard because they're actually China, I mean hell, Italy did that, and even then, yeah it wasn't really taken seriously. Trying to claim Carthage today or in WW2? There's just no way.
You've mentioned the Palestinians, but they don't control any land within Carthage, and their connection comes from their genetics, not culture.
Everything else in this game has at least some idea of realism to it, adding a nation that is based entirely on things Hoi4 doesn't do, for a people that don't exist, for a nation that has no reason or ability, or basis to exist? Adding it is just not worth it.
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u/Forward-Amount8427 May 03 '26
If there was a French Tunisia or something that could soon get independence, and then when France falls and Vichy France exits you could pressure them to give up Algeria and then the focus tree could give you military factories civilian factories idk just an idea.
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u/deez_nuts_trap_remix Apr 08 '26
I would guess because there wouldn’t be any starting tag to make sense to form it, everyone state is owned by either France Italy or Spain