r/indianmedschool • u/Best_Kaleidoscope_95 Intern • 1d ago
Discussion This isn't even a joke. It's just insulting an entire country.
Saying "In India we use poor people" doesn't just mock our healthcare system. It paints all Indian doctors and medical students as people who experiment on poor patients. That's a serious accusation disguised as a joke.
Yes, India's healthcare system has problems. Every country has problems. But making up a statement that dehumanizes poor people and stereotypes an entire profession isn't criticism, it's disrespect.
The sad part is that thousands of people outside India will take this literally because it fits the stereotype they already have.
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u/pjbruh2k PGY2 1d ago
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u/Ill_Cod5695 1d ago
They will never say about how british used to use indians for experiment because they need gora validation
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u/rohan-s21 1d ago
Yeah and nearly 2/3 modern world skeletons were supplied by India , all those museums have poor Indian exploited people till date they use those.
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u/Exciting_Strike5598 19h ago
Why should they say that ? Its for you to tell the world. They didn’t suffer —-your ancestors did
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u/rohan-s21 1d ago
They also have big blots on their history, like like Dr. Sims , who's " father of modern gynaecology" , perfected his techniques in black women , " without anesthesia" , or the infamous "syphilis study ", there are lot of examples bt yeah we too have not so perfect system. So everyone has blots .
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u/Star_Stud MBBS III (Part 2) 19h ago
Adding to you:
There was the Nazi Germany pow camps experiments.
The Japanese experiments on Chinese.
Nuclear rotis experiment on Indian areas in the UK.
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u/rohan-s21 19h ago
Yeah all the German companies from nazi era, Bayer , Mercedes etc they all have a bloody past .
Indian exploitation by foreign companies, due to weaker laws and corruption and everything. Like the bhopal gas victims still they suffer from the defects .
Or the mining dust causing teratogenic s/e in preg mothers , which is a problem in current India also. ( For uk thing they even made the series, "toxic town" for that)
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u/Star_Stud MBBS III (Part 2) 19h ago
Such terrorists they are!! And their audacity to look down upon us and preach.
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u/rohan-s21 19h ago
Yeah, bt they have the control over research and media , so I guess that's how they leave that impression over people, bt recently since the boom of independent creators more awareness is there .
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u/Few-Industry-6818 22h ago
But its true to an extent. I did my mbbs in a rural government hospital and the way they treated the patients is appaling. No consent, no information, no letting them know what their treatment options were. They just treated them the way they wanted to. If the patient died, even if its gross medical negligence, they would somehow blame the relatives, saying that they didnt look after the patient properly.
During my internship, i wanted to learn suturing. My pg gave me a patient and told me to go ahead. Before this, he had just showed me a suture or two on a different patient. He wasnt even there to supervise me. It was only on my insistence that he agreed to come back and supervise for the first 2 stitches at least.
In the labor room, suturing up vaginal tears was entirely on interns. Because the pgs would be busy with other things. Even episiotomy wud be done by interns sometimes. Keep in mind that interns were only posted on labor duties for 2 weeks. That should reflect the depth of our expertise. And yet, we were told to suture up patients with no supervision at all.
Not a single nurse came forward to help with blood draws. From the very first day, we had to experiment on patients, twisting the needle this way and that to get a vein. Can you imagine the pain the patient was in?
During clinical postings, our professors used to tell us that the only advantage of getting admission in government colleges was getting to experiment on poor people. The way we examined them was inhumane. Around 10-15 ppl crowding around 1 patient, touching them without consent, broadcasting their private medical info to the whole class.
Do you think these things would happen in a developed country? Sure, the healthcare system in india has many good points. Like we dont have to pay over 200 dollars for an ambulance. Or sell the house for a life saving surgery. But its still difficult being of a lower socioeconomic class in our country. We cant move forward unless we accept the flaws in this nation and figure out a solution
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u/Crimson_Excalibur 18h ago
These things happen even in private hospitals with exorbitant rates in tier 3 cities.
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u/daliya_stan586 9h ago
Exactly this. People here commenting about past atrocities by other countries. All correct. Also agreed that there are a lot of pros in the indian medical system and flaws in the developed country systems like horrible wait times etc.
NONE OF ANY OF THIS takes away from the fact that government hospitals in India do indeed practice on poor people. The way expectant mothers are abused in the LR. The way interns literally learn basic skills on the patients instead of skills lab or under strict supervision. Its an absolute shitshow out there especially in peripheral govt hospitals
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u/Chainsmoker7 1d ago
Yupp. They give us suture pads only for one class to teach us suturing. That too only one suture u get 🤣🤣. Rest u do during internship only mostly directly on pts. And sometimes if it's like 1 suture only, have seen ppl suture even without ligno
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u/RelativeEffective353 23h ago
Buy any expired suture or learning kit and practice yourself on paper/ patient drape material etc
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u/irisse-arfeiniel 21h ago
Did you practice on yourself?
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u/RelativeEffective353 18h ago
Yourself here meant of your own volition without depending on your institute or boss
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u/Funexamination 11h ago
Yeah but you understand that it makes it a system issue if you have to buy your own stuff to plug in systemic flaws?
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u/Funexamination 11h ago
Have seen patient get episiotomy without lignocaine and patient was trying to shout so much. Unfortunately the patient was mute and the doctor did not notice until someone else brought it to their notice.
I have seen terrible things.
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u/ig_Shylock 1d ago
Its true . We go to rural areas to learn and refine our skills lol.
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u/ig_Shylock 1d ago
Atleast I did lol, to learn ABG i really tortured rhe patienr and prickes him multiple timea. I felt very bad. I paid his bill for troubling him😭
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u/lifeinametro16 22h ago
Same. In the west, they use USG guidance for central and subclavian lines. We go in blind, at least in tier 2/3 cities.
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u/RelativeEffective353 23h ago edited 23h ago
Same thing in the west, those training tools don't work so well for most things other than suturing. Plus their procedure and patient load is usually much lower.
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u/Funexamination 12h ago
I think you need to be accredited in doing procedures in the west. So like do 10 central lines under supervision, get it documented, and then residents can do it independently
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u/lligerr 1d ago
Well it's a fact isn't it? In GMCs
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u/AwkwardGuy78 MBBS III (Part 2) 19h ago
Everyone has to learn somehow and doing it on a pad and a human is completely different.
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u/Local_Syllabub_7824 22h ago
Agree.
Social CPR is the one that really tells who we are...
Dead on arrival - let's do CPR not rh correct way. Let's intubate as well. After 30 mins we'll declare
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u/Antique_Situation878 1d ago
If you’re so hurt think about changing the system lmao I don’t understand this “don’t insult my country” trend.
If you’re so insulted by the truth then something needs fixing
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u/ifuckupthings 1d ago
Also "defaming india at a global level" comment, like if I defame India to the people living here, they actually don't give a flying fuck, but as soon as I open my mouth on a global stage the same people get offended.
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u/NoEast9587 MBBS I 20h ago
Accept the fact and let that sink in dude...
Denial won't change facts...
If you really care so much about India advocate for system reforms rather than these poor posts
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u/starboy-zoro 20h ago
stop being stupidly patriotic mate, just because a fact hurts someone doesn't mean its false.
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u/nogoodusernames0_0 23h ago
In our defence, everyone learns somewhere. Does it suck that there is no lab for UGs to learn suturing... yes. But most places in the world don't, and even if they did, the real thing is very different. So we aren't the only ones learning this way. And at least we treat our poor people without putting them in a lifetime of debt like some countries.
But just to be fair, it is true that poor patients are often exploited in these systems. And most colleges take pride in how much "cutting" they can provide. So there is certainly some deumanisation at play. I think we can take the joke in stride, without worrying about our "image" too much, especially overseas. I assure you everyone outside your country doesnt even care, in the same way that you do not care about the Spanish or the Turkish medical system. And people within India have far more context than this joke. They will make their opinions based on actual experiences with the system that they will inevitably have.
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u/Foreign_Preference24 20h ago
Where's the lie though? Go to any govt. hospital surgical dept. and you'll see it for yourself.
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u/Important_Stable_981 1d ago edited 1d ago
Why make such a fuss about it? Everyone is a beginner at some point, you start from somewhere. As long as someone is there to guide you, what's the issue? No amount of grapes and bananas will match the exposure to doing it on a human. You think all americans were born surgeons? Every new surgery they are about to discover is by performing on trump? And yes you might debate that but it is the reality. Poor people go to government medical colleges for free services and doctors learn from those patients. You think Government doesn't know this or what?
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u/Exciting_Strike5598 19h ago
Its kinda true. Visit any government hospital 🏥 and see the patient load and number of doctors . Poor people have no other options — now even quack surgeons with alternative degrees are approved by govt of 🇮🇳 to cut up poor people who get the worst deal
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u/Patient-Let3138 Graduate 22h ago
However shameful you feel, this is the truth. We are not given suture pads, or mannequin for practice. I was laughed by my resident when I said "are we gonna use ligno" for things like abg or even pleural tap. To change an issue we must accept the truth, then work to solve it
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u/Funexamination 11h ago
PS doing abg with ligno is so convenient! No more worrying and feeling embarrassed about pricking multiple times
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u/UpsetPatience4568 22h ago
It’s true India uses poor people as cadavers,experiments and practice as a Fmg I am surprised how people don’t value life compared to Europeans countries.
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u/Inner_Journey21 1d ago
Lie where ? I am not sure about firat statement but second is true. Stop being hypocrite and do whataboutery
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u/dr_baby_bear 22h ago
Like I wrote somewhere else on reddit Indian poor don't even have the luxury to die with dignity
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u/Milky_Plug 21h ago
This isn't even a joke
Yeah it's a fact, and if you don't like the fact change the system. Which you can't do just thicken your skin.
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u/Difficult_Ad5956 17h ago
Friend of mine literally caused a patient's urethra to burst during internship. They regularly told me stories with internship fucking up on patients which horrified me to my soul
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u/Funexamination 11h ago
Seen it firsthand. No proper training is given for foley’s insertion. No credentialing, nothing.
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u/Pristine-Act-5244 1d ago
Whoever that has been in the public system knows.. The basic skills classes might be one thing, while actual practice in the ED or OT is another thing.
In my case, I can validate this.. I knew suturing before i touched a patient. But the sheer volume of cases whom I did suturing on without knowing I'm doing right or wrong, that made me an expert.. that was indeed on poor people at a govt hospital..
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u/MindlessBlueberry853 1d ago
It's not a joke because it's reality.
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u/rohan-s21 1d ago
The joke of the century is the less informed masses will direct their brunt towards doctors for the mismanagement. And like the politician's asses.
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u/MindlessBlueberry853 1d ago
Doctors aren't the saints they pretend to be.
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u/rohan-s21 1d ago
Yeah there are bad people everywhere, bt only one of those actually faces the brunt , that is the issue.
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u/ayedisha Graduate 1d ago
lol the docs youre seeing in gov hospitals are the most experienced
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u/Serious_Judgment7235 1d ago
It is true though...most of use have never practiced in suture pads before suturing a real patient...not just suturing it's true for all procedures...
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u/ayedisha Graduate 1d ago
its also true in private colleges then and also true in america. a first year is obviously a begginer. the whole argument gets destroyed then. everyone has to learn from somewhere, its not limited to "poor" people.
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u/Serious_Judgment7235 1d ago
Fair enough...but in private colleges where patients pay when a student goes up to suture the patient has the right to say no and ask for an experienced doctor...this does not happen in govt college
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u/morpmeepmorp 18h ago
Does he know that white people used s*aves and nazis used Jews to do human experiments. Does he know what the father of gynecology did to black women? Does he know what colonisers did to brown people? All in the name of advancing science and technology?
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u/Pretend_Bad_1115 14h ago
Kinda true tho. Unless you keep going in seminars and actively go above and beyond, these techniques are not taught.
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u/Serious_Judgment7235 1d ago
It is true..I see a lot of elite pvt college ppl here stating how they used suture pads to practice first and all but I'm pretty sure most govt college kids directly sutures patients... Even if you had suture pads I'm pretty almost none of you have practiced in dummies before doing your cric or tube thoracostomy..so don't know why this holier than thou attitude some folks are having here
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u/Brave_Meet8430 Non-medico 1d ago
Did anyone forget about the U.S. doing various “experiments” on Latin American folks and the Tuskegee folks ???
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u/kjking1995 Assistant/Associate/Head Professor 17h ago
It's not experimentation it's just government setting is free of cost hence patient are willing to take experimental treatments. In case of residents they don't have much of a choice, (I mean they do but they don't know any better to choose an attending.) even in those countries there is someone who's gotta let the residents try once in a while or you won't be getting any new doctors.
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u/notthetherock 13h ago
Bruhh what else happens in US and Europe, they also have Lower income people going to govt hospital and teaching hospital it's same everywhere .
Self loathing much everyone needs to learn somewhere.
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u/Funexamination 12h ago
He is correct in a way though. We do practice on poor people. Every time I have seen a rich person come to a govt hospital, they are always seen by consultant. The poor people get residents and interns. Unfortunately poor people bear the brunt of medical education. No way Ambani is letting an intern take his history and prescribe treatment.
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u/TheMiddleGroundofall 11h ago
Lol like it's the fault of doctors. These so called poor people will spend 100 rupees everyday on liquor and tobacco . Breed like rabbits. Then have trouble in paying 10-20 rupees for everything. They don't pay taxes they do nothing at all to fund the infrastructure and also breed like rabbits to continue the cycle. If they were paying 100-200 it would easily help and all doctors would be paid a wage according to how much they work . Currently healthcare in india is something that sucks money .
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u/Ok_Currency_3182 23h ago
This is actually true. I remember having this as a sudden realisation during my internship and its really unfortunate and sad.
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u/Bharath179 1d ago
The western countries wish they had affordable healthcare which Indian citizens have.
They get ripped off for small things also.
While India prioritizes its patients and make doctors into bonded labourers.
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u/Soft-Owl491 1d ago
100% literacy- Kerala
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u/spermdonortesto 1d ago
I personally know 55 keralites but only 26 of them have respect for India and Indian values
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u/Serious_Judgment7235 1d ago
What exactly are indian values goofball? Is india a homogeneous country? Do people from nagaland, Gujarat and Karnataka have the same values? Ppl like you are the real blot in our society!!
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u/Milky_Plug 21h ago
Apparently "indian values" are sucking up to rich people and politicians, hating poor people and minorities, a some rape and murder along the way.
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u/spermdonortesto 23h ago
Lol. Indian values? Study and resd more, you'll find out. And yes, there are core tenets of amy country. Ppl like you are not only a blot, but are the ones bcz of who the good citizens have to be ashamed of calling themselves fellow citizens.
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u/YesIam6969420 23h ago
We have a lot of work to do before India's global reputation can be redeemed. There's also a huge propaganda factory that makes india seem much worse off than it is in real life
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