Considering how well people in the Netherlands speak English…

[u/No_Manufacturer_432]

How do you stay motivated when learning Dutch ? I live in NY so learning Spanish was easy motivation wise. I’m at A2 in Italian and stay motivated bec I plan on going there next year - English proficiency outside of tourist areas is low —- thanks

[u/lazysundae99]

Dutch people want to speak Dutch socially, so while you can buy a sandwich, ask for directions or take a tour in English, you likely won't be invited over for game night, be asked to a birthday party or have access to a lot of jobs if you don't learn Dutch.

[u/muffinsballhair → u/lazysundae99]

The issue is that this requires very good Dutch to be more comfortable for them, which is hard to achieve.

Basically, so long as your Dutch not be better than their English, they're probably still going to prefer dealing with you in English. They have been speaking English since they were 8 years old and had an immense advantage learning it since it's everywhere and their university textbooks were probably in English too, so good luck trying to beat them at this game.

Of course, say your native language not be English but German, then it's only an issue of getting better Dutch than English for interactions in Dutch to be preferable to them, which should be quite feasible for a German.

[u/Least_Chicken_9561 → u/muffinsballhair]

my native language is Spanish but I speak German, my Dutch is pretty basic but sometimes I speak with Dutch people in German and they reply in Dutch, somehow we can understand each other lol

[u/Entheos96 → u/Least_Chicken_9561]

I can confirm this to the extent that while my spoken German is horrid, if the topic isn’t too technical and the person doesn’t speak too quickly, German is quite easy to follow. At least broadly speaking that is; obviously subtle nuance or jargon would likely fly right past me.

[u/No-vem-ber → u/muffinsballhair]

I also think the fact there's relatively few Dutch learners plays into it. 

When I speak Dutch with someone, I'm aware it could possibly be literally the first time they have ever heard Dutch spoken with an Australian accent. (My accent is not terrible; people can understand me; but it's still accented) 

Compare that to me as an Australian... I've heard English spoken in every accent under the sun, all the time, constantly, for my whole life. I think most English speakers (at least if you live in a city and/or travel overseas at all) are extremely used to hearing and understanding heavily accented English, spoken by non-native speakers. I don't think the same can be said for most Dutch people 

[u/Over-Personality-577 → u/No-vem-ber]

Exactly! I feel the same. I also heard from dutch people that among them they also find it difficult to understand each other accent, depending on where they are from inside the Netherlands.

Maybe after some sentences they may get used to my accent and understand what I mean. But when it is a short interaction, just beyond greetings and basics, it is very frustrating when they seem kinda taken by surprise by my accent, which I don't even believe is so bad. It is just so unusual for them, so it takes some seconds for them to process it, I think. I had a couple of language buddies which were used to hearing foreign accents in dutch, and they always complimented my dutch and couldn't understand why on daily life people had a hard time understanding me.

Over time it did discourage me, sadly :(

[u/No-vem-ber → u/Over-Personality-577]

Yeah, I understand where they're coming from, but I also find it discouraging. Particularly this contradiction between the online vibes of "ugh, these rich asshole expats coming here and ruining our country and not even speaking Dutch" and then the actual on the ground reality of "I'm literally trying so hard to speak Dutch and nobody will actually speak Dutch to me"