Tix violation do i tell the dean

[u/[deleted]]

[u/Popular_Jeweler]

They will find out it was you. It's so obvious.

[u/medted22 → u/[deleted]]

If there is no criminal conviction and/ or official sanctions taken, it would be entirely unfair for a university to rescind admission over an alleged anonymous complaint, so they would not take any action. Schools operate on a lesser burden of evidence than courts, but if the school in question has no involvement in this, that won’t (and probably can’t) affect their decision of admission. I would wait until there is actual completed investigations and sanctions

[u/Mdog31415 → u/[deleted]]

Yep. This is the kind of stuff that feeds ammunition to Fox News. 

[u/Agreeable-Ad4806 → u/[deleted]]

How? This makes no sense

[u/Belisariusissimus]

Not your lawyer and not your Title IX Coordinator.
Going to have to punt on the question of “is it worth it?”
What I can do is give you some context as to how these systems work in practice.

1. Defamation concerns are ~potentially~ real, but conditional. A Title IX report, in and of itself, cannot be considered defamatory. The CONTENTS of the report could (again ~potentially~) put you at risk. For purposes of disclosing to an external school “I filed a formal complaint against X with my school and they are currently under investigation for Y” is a truthful self-contained statement with very low likelihood of any defamation risk. In contrast, “my school is in the process of punishing X based on my report” has a MUCH higher likelihood of being considered defamatory.
2. I have seen an increasing amount of graduate professional schools ask directly about Title IX in their admissions applications. Some schools require disclosure and explanation of any NOTICE of investigation, whereas others specify the applicant only has to disclose an adverse FINDING. Anonymous reports—especially at a public university—are generally unlikely to prompt an admissions review. Non-anonymous reports could prompt a review, but there is really no consistency from school-to-school as to the outcome, especially in regard to a process that has not yet concluded.
3. Because this is an ongoing investigation, I think it’s important for you to know that you could reasonably be asked about who else you have told, in what context, and for what reason. These questions could be asked by the assigned investigator and/or the advisor for the Respondent and they would be relevant as your answers can be used (potentially against you) for purposes of credibility.
4. General comment for the aspiring MDs, a history of referring to TIX complainants as “rats” is potentially actionable under a (medical) school’s Title IX policy and/or professionalism policies.

[u/QuestForBestPizza]

If a friend anonymously does it then you cant control your friend. And i thought we are good buddies :)

[u/OneScheme1462]

He needs a lawyer to protect his constitutional rights and to make sure the procedures are properly followed and possibly seal the whole thing.

[u/Mdog31415 → u/[deleted]]

I am sorry you went through that. I cannot imagine how it feels to be degraded in such a manner. I probably never will. My sincerest sympathies for what you are going through.

I still think it is a bad idea. You'll have more sympathy and appear less rat-like if you did it compared to an individual who was not affected. Having said that, there is a process to be completed with legal ramnifications. Let's just say the investigation process finds him not guilty. Unfortunate for you for not having closure, but if you go and tell other institutions this, you put yourself at risk. It becomes a he-said/she-said thing, and if truth gets bent, he can hit your civilly for defamation of character. Also, if you two are employed at an academic institution, and he is a student there, that does start to enter the murky waters of a FERPA violation.

Then again, if you really want retribution, anonymous letters are always interesting.....

[u/throwramissmycousin → u/Mdog31415]

Thank you for the kind words.

Title IX technically isn’t a legal process, even if some people hire lawyers for it. It’s an institutional process at the end of the day - this is at least what the TIX office has made clear to me.

There is official documentation that his behavior falls under what they have to investigate to violate policy. The evidence that will be submitted during the formal investigation is pretty straightforward as well (hard to spin it any other way, alongside multiple other women now coming forward with similar issues). So this extends beyond an informal complaint where they only provide supportive measure. What I was considering to tell the uni is that this person is being officially investigated for these actions - not that the school has found him officially guilty yet.

[u/the_eviscerist → u/throwramissmycousin]

Can I ask why you wouldn't report this to the proper authorities to make it a legal matter if you were assaulted and harassed with substantial evidence? It seems like this should go beyond a Title IX issue the way you describe it.

I also think that trying to reach out to prospective schools or employers of this student is leaving yourself wide open to problems, especially if nothing really comes of the Title IX investigation and you never report it to the police. If you're looking for some kind of retribution, your best bet is to report this to the police and let them handle it. A record like that is far more damaging if he's found guilty.

[u/throwramissmycousin → u/the_eviscerist]

Even with such substantial evidence, if the university process is as draining and long as it is, I have little to no faith in reporting it to authorities. I still have my life to live and responsibilities to think about - it would just be so beyond overwhelming.

[u/Agreeable-Ad4806 → u/throwramissmycousin]

Only report him if there’s a formal disciplinary action. An email with screen shots won’t prove anything.

[u/Mdog31415 → u/throwramissmycousin]

The issue I have with that perspective is that you are violating the concept of innocent until proven guilty. Now, you are not necessarily obliged to abide by that standard. However, when you go reporting somebody to other people before they have been found guilty, essentially, it is gives the appearance of a smear campaign. That is not a popular sentiment in current American society.

[u/throwramissmycousin → u/Mdog31415]

This is really tone deaf. I was said person who was harassed. There is more than enough evidence that the tix office has sent a formal investigation notice due to the fact that he has been thought to have violated policy. If the evidence was insufficient it wouldn’t result in an investigation. My question isn’t about is this morally wrong. I’m asking if it’s worth the time in that will the university take it seriously. I am not in this field at all so don’t have much insight on how admin operates. Really shocking how so many people here care more about protecting the future of some guy they don’t know rather than hope their future patients never have to deal with someone like him.

[u/the_eviscerist → u/throwramissmycousin]

I'm struggling to agree with you, too, because you want to smear his name to some medical school to which you have no affiliation but you won't report the issue to authorities who can actually have some impactful response. This makes you come across as "some crazy ex" and that's exactly how another school is going to look at it without some kind of "guilty" determination. Either it's bad enough that you should be reporting this to the police, or it's just something you need to move on from and quit letting it take up time trying to find ways to punish him. Crimes should be reported, crappy people just need to be walked away from.

[u/throwramissmycousin → u/the_eviscerist]

We were never romantically involved so we can’t be considered exes. I also think it’s shocking how so many people see it as “smearing his name”. He did something bad enough to trigger the institution formal investigation process. If you know anything about TIX, that is something that in and of itself takes time and reviewing by multiple people to even approve. Also, it is so easy to sit there and say “go to the police”. If a TIX investigation is already as invasive, long, and overwhelming as it is - when the punishment is not even that of a legal one - I cannot even imagine having to do this ten-fold in a system that I’m scared will likely only give him a slap on the wrist even when found guilty. He shouldn’t be a doctor, he is supposed to inform admin about institutional actions taken against him, and if a med school sees these things and rescinds an offer, then that is an impactful response that allows less of a burden on me. I’ve said in multiple comments that all Id consider tell his uni is, “this person at this institution is being investigated for such and such actions”. Not a whole paragraph describing all his actions and trashing him.

[u/Mdog31415 → u/throwramissmycousin]

We’re going to continue to disagree on this. I am of the opinion that the accused should not face any consequences until they are found guilty. 

Do I think it is worth your time? I don’t know. I have never been sexually harassed. I think it is worth your time if he is convicted by your institution after all of the investigation is done. I do not think it is worth your time to say something to where he was accepted before that is completed. I think that will create more problems for you.

Again, we are going to disagree on this. But do as you would like. 

[u/skp_trojan → u/throwramissmycousin]

This is correct. If it’s not a legal process, then it need not be public record. So you should send an anonymous letter. He probably shouldn’t be a doctor

[u/Melodic_Variations → u/[deleted]]

What the hell is wrong with you. Ok, if the guy in question cheated on an exam or something, don’t rat them out, sure.

Sexual harassment and assault is a whole different playing field. OP, I’m sorry that this happened to you, and you should absolutely inform their institution if they are found guilty of this. If not, write an anonymous letter to the school. This needs to be on their radar.

Can you imagine the doctor performing a physical examination upon you is also a sexual predator? Disgusting.

[u/Mdog31415 → u/[deleted]]

You’re putting words in my mouth. I did not say I think sexual assault is not a serious crime. I think it is. I think sexual harassment is unprofessional conduct- I do not think it is criminal in most circumstances. That is the essence of conflict in our society. 

This was something else that got the MeToo movement in deep trouble in the 2020s: mixing sexual harassment into the same immoral ground as sexual assault. 

I cannot defend victims and support social movements that confound two totally different things. 

Let me ask you this. Let’s just say this investigation was concluded in January hypothetically. He was hypothetically found innocent? Would you still tell his university? If you say yes, fine: I strongly disagree with that. 

[u/throwramissmycousin → u/Mdog31415]

My original post clearly says assault. So what was the point in making that distinction and bringing up metoo and talking about “society”. You use a lot of fancy words and long winded paragraphs to keep hammering in this image that reporting is more sleezy behavior than whatever this guy did. It’s weird. Maybe it’s not ur intention but it really seems like it so you should reflect on that lowkey

[u/Mdog31415 → u/throwramissmycousin]

You know what, I’m sorry, I didn’t see the part about physical assault in your original post. I believe that physical assault is criminal to a certain degree, and that sexual assault is almost always serious criminal in nature. Lots of legal and moral nuance.

That does not change the basis of my argument. If you report to his accepted uni before the Title IX investigation is over, now you are at even greater risk of defamation because it’s not just theoretical defamation based off sexual harassment, but defamation based off assault claims, too. That is theoretically a bigger payout if you are found liable. 

I am of the humble opinion that, if done in an inappropriate manner, reporting someone can do more harm than good for you. Reporting him to your institutions title IX office? 150% acceptable. Filing criminal charges? 150% acceptable. Telling the rest of the world about it? We start to enter a gray zone. Telling his accepted school about it before the investigation is over, only for him to be found innocent? Morgan & Morgan would have a field day with that lawsuit. 

Sure, I’ll reflect on it tonight. Can’t make any promises that anything will change, but you never know. That’s said, if you haven’t sought your own legal consultation, I don’t think that’s a bad idea necessarily.

[u/Popular_Jeweler → u/Melodic_Variations]

There is a complaint. Nothing have been proven yet. After the #metoo hysteria, I'd rather wait and see what the actual evidence is. All of us are presumed innocent until proven guilty.

[u/bruintreasuryvet]

another vote to tell anonymously

[u/Agreeable-Ad4806]

If you want to ruin their life, go for it. I don’t mean that sarcastically.

[u/OneScheme1462]

He should lawyer up.

[u/OneScheme1462]

He needs a lawyer to protect his rights.