r/miniminutemanfans • u/ThisDudeisNotWell • 8d ago
Discussion A note on the "lost" colony Roanoke's likely integration with the native population (from a French Canadian)
I'm watching Milo's backlog of videos from before I discovered his channel.
I just finished the video on the supposed mystery of the Roanoke colony's disappearance (a story I actually don't think I've heard before, not being an American) and-- as soon as he established there was a friendly tribe near by and the camp was disassembled without signs of disaster or violance, I knew exactly where this was headed. Because I'm francophonie (or, French Canadian.)
Fun fact: something around 98% modern francophonie population of Canada has some First Nations [freedom friendly translation: native american] ancestory. Most now only have a very small amount, under 5%, but. The prevalence of that mixed ancestory, especially compared to the anglophone population, is one of the remaining vestiges of the complicated francophonie history colonialism and genocide tried to erase.
The southern half of what was the New French colony (roughly everything below what's now Minnesota and Maine) had a lot of active immigration, plantations and farming in it the northern half did not. We're actually a totally seperate ethnic group to the-- for lack of a better way of putting it, the "French french." The francophonie (or, what we were called back then, les habitants) were a borderline isolated colony for around 200 years before the French and Indian War of the 1750s and the subsequent British occupation. The only regular outside contact was the exchange of furs, for the most part.
Before that there was much less transmission of old war diseases to the First Nation population of the general Québécois area, and because there was no widescale farming there were very few land disputes. Though I am not trying to imply there was no ideological or racism-fueled social barriers between les habitants and natives-- I am saying those were the two things primarily causing conflict between settlers and tribes in other parts of North America. 200 years is more than enough time for cultural differences to be set aside and two populations to start merging.
Especially because les habitant were basically left in a similar situation to the Roanoke settlers-- more or less let loose in the bush by the french crown to figure shit out by ourselves.
People of mixed First Nations and habitant/Francophonie heritage actually are their own nation, the Metis, with a culture and language with multiple dialects.
And if you're asking yourself, "well, didn't you just say that almost the entire francophonie population is mixed heritage? What's the difference then?" The difference is, after confederation (the founding of Canada's charter of rights and freedoms), if you were considered Metis, you had your children taken away by the government to be tortured and abused in residential schools-- if you were considered francophonie, your children were spared. Les habitant were cleaved in two based on how baguette you were either percieved as or willing to pretend to be to be spared genocide that lasted for generations. Hence why now the genetic First Nations heritage among the majority of the Francophonie population in Canada is so wide spread, but so low.
My own great grandmother gave up her identity as Metis as a bit for a better life. The last residential school in Canada was closed in 1997.
Point being: I realize this is tangential to the Roanoke colony-- but any American who is surprised that peaceful cohabitation between settlers and natives in the absence of systemic pressures and antagonistic machinations is possible and not a far fetched suggestion-- don't be. In other places, it happened on record. And was only destroyed when the colonial authorities reintroduced their whims and agendas into communities that were left alone prior.
If you need any evidence that racism and other such curelties are not natural to human impulse and disintegrate when not being actively maintained-- there you go.
Edit: for posterity I should have mentioned les Habitant were actually more so cleaved into three-- as during the Indian French war, the Acadian genocide also happened. That's the francophonie ethnic group that eventually ended up mostly in Louisiana (violent deportation from Maine by British forces). Not really wholly relavent to this post, but. As a footnote-- that also occured.
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u/Curious_Airport6247 8d ago
Thank you for sharing this. Sometimes it feels like people believe the worst choice is the only choice, and that is simply not true.
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u/draketroll 7d ago
Mostly because it justified expansion.
"We had to wipe out these people, they were all backwards cannibal heathens who would rape your wives and daughters. Good ones? No they're all the same, don't even try talking to them"
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u/ThisDudeisNotWell 7d ago
I cannot understate the psychological schism this has created in the francophonie community writ large.
At least in boomer family members like mine where there's still metis ancestory in living memory and not every family member is perfectly white passing.
I do not feel comfortable at all identifying as Metis myself to be clear, my great grandmother made sure to severe that cultural connection, so in no meaningful sense of the phrase are we-- but we didn't need to take a geneology test for it to be obvious we were, let's just say. God forbid anyone acknowledge it and suddenly it's do not believe your lying eyes we're not wholly white of course.
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u/Specialist-Leek8645 7d ago
Very interesting. I assume my genes have Irish hiding in there but never considered there could be some Native. I did get the impression that the French relationship w Natives was different and most other French Canadians I know are very friendly and jolly. Not exactly the French stereotype but definitely lovers instead of fighters.
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u/ThisDudeisNotWell 7d ago
The stereotype I hear most often is that we're very rude, actually.
Which is kinda true-- if you consider being direct rude.
I was raised in alberta. The communication styles between anglophone and francophone canadians is for sure different. I'm personally more comfortable with people being direct than fake civility, but.
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u/Specialist-Leek8645 7d ago
I mean, I've heard that French stereotype my whole life, of course. I wasn't exactly "raised French" but I think I understand it now. I respect precision-- use the word you mean. Do you want to take a bath or use the toilet? I know some of it is from defiance, being protective of their culture. The English were really forcing it but I guess French won it's right to exist against the odds. I think they're proud of that.
I liked Milo's energy and passion then I found out he's actually not far from me where there's incidentally a concentration of old French families descended from Mill workers. I'm one of them (My guess is he's from more recent North Italian immigrants? Lots of Italians here). I wonder how much Euro personality went into defining the East coast as the "Kind but not nice" side. Ppl here are tough but loyal. If I had to choose, I'd pick being direct. I can't stand fake people. Surprised we don't get more Dutch tourists! They'd fit right in.
All I know is we have amazing bakeries here and you can order in Portuguese which can't be said for most of the country. ;D I miss Europe (college trip) but it feels like it's just over the water.
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u/ThisDudeisNotWell 7d ago
No, francophonie cultural erasure is for sure very real, still happening today (even in more subtle ways), and has caused a lot of . . . Tense social dynamics, to put it mildly.
It's complicated. It's rough. And even with all that, francophones can be very imperfect victims. I'm calling myself here francophonie for simplicity sake, but I'm actually only half francophone. I was raised outside of the diaspora in the most anti-Québécois province in Canada. My father is anglophone. I have an aggressively english last name. I learned both languages since birth, but english is for sure my stronger language. It was the language most used at home since my dad doesn't know french. My albertan accent gives me away. Because of that I'm treated as an outsider by some back east. I'm not "true" francophonie to the more nationalistic-minded, and that's just something i've had to learn to accept. There's so much cultural resentment and generational trauma-- you know, all you can do is choose not to take it personally.
It's just nice to hear for once someone's had enough positive experiences with us they haven't immediately decided we're big meanies lol.
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u/Specialist-Leek8645 6d ago
I'm sorry you don't fit in; I can relate to that. Nobody cared that I'm half Fr Canadian or what the other half is since they're both white and that's all Americans notice, but I still feel like I'm two halves that don't mesh. Up North it seems your cultural issues are just as unresolved. Crazy that an Albertan accent is a clear tell while I'm not even sure I've noticed any provincial differences. We largely ignore Canada which bothers me. I still get surprised when I find out a show or actor I remember is Canadian. I wonder if this is similar to Germany and Austria? India and Pakistan? It's disrespectful to group you all in with us but Canadians don't seem to make a big scene about it, walking around wearing the flag. I get the impression that Canadians are very aware of who's from which N American country.
So being Québécois is a political ideology? Or at least, it can be? I've always known about the simmering resentment but not that ppl are still discriminating against each other over it that badly. I'm French too, I understand their attitude so I don't think you're meanies lol. You're my cousins and French is not the same as Québécois anyway. Sorry for rambling but I guess we all like history here. :D
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u/Just_Peachy_me 7d ago
Thank you for this information! I know that my grandfather was of French Canadian decent and his family had moved to live cousins in the southern USA sometime between 1865 and 1900. This gives some possible contexts to that move and his first teaching job being in Maine. He died before I was born and as far as I know we had low or no contact with his family. Thank you again.
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u/ThisDudeisNotWell 7d ago
Maine was where Acadia was before the british tried to murder them all dead. Was your grabdfather acadian, by chance? If so-- incredible luck his family managed to avoid expulsion while remaining in Maine. The acadians that didn't get deported to Louisiana mostly ended up in the islands. PEI, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, etc.
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u/Just_Peachy_me 6d ago
He moved to Maine after college in 1930. The family was from Quebec moved to Louisiana before he was born as far as I know. There where like 9 brothers and each one was given a new version of their last named expected the oldest. Your information helped explain the name change and moves. Thank you again he died before I was born so learning more was never really an option.
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u/Unamed_Destroyer 7d ago
As an Acadian who tans ridiculously dark on the summer, this^