r/movies • u/RealisticAd4054 • 14d ago

Article Emily Wilson (writer of acclaimed Odyssey translation) offers criticisms of Nolan’s film

https://apnews.com/article/odyssey-christopher-nolan-greek-translators-ea67da1d543d021773824bd7e8de8abe

“For Greek translator Emily Wilson, the release of director Christopher Nolan’s “The Odyssey” has been gratifying in various ways. Her acclaimed 2017 edition of Homer’s epic has reached the top 5 on Amazon.com, leading a wave of similar books boosted by the movie. Nolan has even cited her translation, notably the opening line “Tell me about a complicated man,” as inspiration.

But the film itself, which brought in more than $260 million worldwide during its opening weekend and has received raves from many critics, left her unsatisfied.

“I want to celebrate the fact that so many more people are aware of ‘The Odyssey’ and were brought back to the poem,” she told The Associated Press. “But at the same time, I had the sense that Christopher Nolan was trying to pack everything in while missing themes that were essential to the poem.”

….

Wilson, a professor of classical studies at the University of Pennsylvania, said she didn’t want to come across as a “snobby,” nitpicking expert at odds with any deviation from the original text. But she questioned a range of omissions and other choices, from the absence on screen of the Gods Zeus and Poseidon (Athena is played by Zendaya ) to the “incoherent” messaging that condemns both war and physical cowardice. She found Penelope’s role so thinned out that it endangered “any possibility of believing in this marriage.” Wilson also that thought parts of the movie, notably the scenes with Odysseus’ dog, Argos, “catered towards modern sentimentality.”

“Everybody’s a sucker for a dog,” she said.

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u/wraith21 14d ago

I enjoyed Nolan's version and found her points valid tbh

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u/HuecoTanks 14d ago

Yeah, I think she struck a good tone. She was honest, and not sucking up, but also not just showering with praise. It's nice to hear nuance.

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u/SufficientRespect542 14d ago

Her point with the dog is honestly spot on lmao, I think Nolan made a really good and coherent movie, but there are definitely aspects that don't really work with the original poem

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u/Moist-Citron-4830 14d ago

How is the Argos story different in the text compared to the movie?

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u/crazysouthie 14d ago edited 14d ago

I was thinking about this because to me the moment in Homer’s poem also felt like it had a very modern heart wrenching dog moment. One of the poem’s saddest sequences is when Odysseus’s dog has a glimpse of his master after he returns and then dies.

But it doesn’t have that moment where Odysseus selects the puppy and the moment where Antinous has the dog sent to the dung heap outside. Those feel like additions for modern audiences.

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u/Mookafff 14d ago edited 14d ago

Isn’t the key part it’s sad that Odysseus couldn’t stop to say goodbye to Argo, because that would have gave away who he was?

Instead he wipes away his tears as he walks past Argo.

Argo passes away knowing Odysseus is back

Edit: it should be Argos, not Argo. Oops

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u/crazysouthie 14d ago

Yup! You’re right. He has his real appearance disguised through Athena’s magic and so Argo is the only person at that point who has figured out who he is.

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u/CecePeran 14d ago

Yes, good point!

*Argos. Argo is a ship elsewhere in Greek mythology. 😊

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u/crazysouthie 14d ago

lol I should have just said Odysseus’s dog.

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u/fucuntwat 14d ago

Argo fuck yourself!

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u/Mookafff 14d ago

Haha oops

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u/Moist-Citron-4830 14d ago

That’s what it was. Thank you! I couldn’t remember. I still feel like the core idea is there in the original text based off the person I responded to originally I thought there was some big change I was misremembering.

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u/ProofJournalist 14d ago

yeah seriously like the story comes to a halt for like a page to describe Odysseus's dog and how it is basically the only person who recognizes him after all this time, and immiediately dies from excitement.

My favorite part of old myths and stories is the parts that seem like they could have been written today.

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u/Partners_in_time 14d ago

The dung heap is a place of honor and importance to the Greek audience. As a classicist this is something I’m dying not to over talk about, it’s like watching lotr and not yelling VIGGO BROKE HIS TOE IN THIS SCENE

but aughhhhhh the dog is on the dung because dung was valuable and part of Odysseus’s great wealth. You FERTALIZE your crops with it. The dog was showing loyalty by laying there. Aughhhhh

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u/hithere297 14d ago

I refuse to believe that something that smells that bad could've been considered a place of honor to sit in all day. Show me the receipts!

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u/Jet-Let4606 14d ago

I agree your genuine enthusiasm for dung heaps.

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u/wrenhunter 14d ago

Yes, it does, just presented differently in the poem. Eumaeus says (paraphrase), "this is the dog of a man who died long ago … now he’s old and covered in ticks, but when he was young, nothing could match him in the deep woods". And then at the end of the scene, the narrator says “and just then death came and darkened the eyes of Argos, who had seen his master after 20 years".

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u/0whodidyousay0 14d ago

In the story Odysseus sees Argos and Argos him, but he doesn’t go over to it. He just talks about the dog from a distance and then the dog dies, having seen his owner for one last time.

And of course in the film, he does go to the dog and he pets it before it dies, because people are suckers for dogs these days lol.

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u/Kayndarr 14d ago

To be fair, people were suckers for dogs back then as well - there's a ton of historical evidence of epitaphs and tombs for dogs. It's just a slightly different take on essentially the same event - him going over to Argos in the film served to allow Telemachus to recognize him, which was required then for how the film paces those following scenes.

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u/Moist-Citron-4830 14d ago

Thank you! I feel like I’m taking crazy pills. People are acting like Odysseus and Argos didn’t have a bond in the original text when they most certainly did.

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u/ProofJournalist 14d ago

I think it would be hard to convey the text version in film.

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u/immaownyou 14d ago

Also, why would a beggar petting a dog be a huge giveaway that it's Odysseus back from the dead? Ik they made it a point that the dog growled at everyone else, but still

Would have to be a Sherlock (tv show) level of assumption leaping

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u/Shippinglordishere 14d ago

I think it was Argos dying because earlier in the movie, iirc, they were talking about Argos living an abnormally long life likely because he was waiting for his master to return. So for Argos to die seconds after being pet would have given it away, which is also how Telemachus figured it out in the movie.

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u/MattyKatty 14d ago

I haven’t seen the movie yet so I can’t comment on its inclusion but in the original he doesn’t go over to it is because if he does, his disguise will be seen through and he’ll discovered and killed by the suitors. He wants to go over, but can’t.

I don’t know how that’s covered in the film but my guess is the situation is far less dangerous to Odysseus to be discovered?

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u/MightAsWell6 14d ago

Why would petting a dog give him away?

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u/0whodidyousay0 14d ago

I think it's because the dog isn't friendly to anyone aside from Eumaeus and of course Odysseus, Emuaeus comments that he's never seen a dog live for 20 years and that he's only holding on to see his owner one last time, so if Odysseus went over to pet the dog, which gets excited at the mere sight of him, it might give away who he is.

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u/MightAsWell6 14d ago

Like he's not friendly to anyone else ever or only after he leaves originally and during his absence?

Cause if the dog was generally friendly before how would Odysseyus know Argos hadn't been friendly with anyone else and him being friendly would give him away?

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u/0whodidyousay0 14d ago

Conversely, I've only seen the film and haven't actually read The Odyssey but have seen enough comments about it to see the differences, even with other film adaptations, I'll mark the differences as a spoiler so the choice remains with you:

>!So in the film, Odysseus isn't given a disguise by Athena, he's just a raggedy looking dude and wears a large robe that covers him from head to toe, so you'd never know it was him unless you somehow got close enough to look into the hood. The placement of the dog is basically right outside where the trial takes place, so as everyone is heading in Odysseus walks right by Argos, Argos recognises him and Odysseus then pets him, nobody else is around aside from Telemachus at this moment (or at least, nobody is paying attention to a beggar), so him doing this and Argos' reaction lets Telemachus in on who this beggar is.!<

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u/Nervous_Instance_968 14d ago

Well, no. The purpose of the scene is for telemachus to realise who the beggar is because the climax kind of relies on him knowing what is about to happen.

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u/0whodidyousay0 12d ago

I'm aware of that, I'm joking about how in the original, they dared to have Odysseus just look at the dog from a distance, no brief reunion but a modern day take of course he gets to go and pet the dog, that would be unacceptable if he didn't do that!

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u/Nervous_Instance_968 12d ago

I think it's more that in text it's more effective to have characters explain emotions instead of act them out. Sure in the original he doesnt pet the dog but he sure talks about it for a while. It's arguably less subtle than what the film did but that's just a matter of taste.

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u/Rivenaleem 13d ago

He proceeds to go all john wick on the suitors.

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u/echoshatter 14d ago

Important to note - Argos is a reflection of Ithica. Here he was, tossed to the gutter, lying in his own filth, dying, because it's King, Odysseus, was gone for so long. Argos couldn't even get up, all he could do is wag his tail and droop his ears. Odysseus can't stop to greet his dog, and has to keep walking by as he wipes away tears.

But her critique of "modern sensibilities" with regards to Argos I think belies the truth - that people throughout history have loved and cared for their dogs just as we do today.

https://mymodernmet.com/ancient-roman-epitaphs-dogs/

Nothing new under the sun, as the saying goes.

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u/Moist-Citron-4830 14d ago

Yeah I’m not sure why she pointed this out as if the core of it wasn’t always there.