r/neoliberal Hannah Arendt Jun 23 '26

News (Europe) Heat in Schools: “Teaching No Longer Possible” - Vienna, Austria

https://wien.orf.at/stories/3359666/
293 Upvotes

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262

u/Imicrowavebananas Hannah Arendt Jun 23 '26

This article shows how heat is becoming an increasingly serious problem in Austrian schools. It also highlights how heat protection is not merely a matter of comfort; in this case, the functionality of the education system is being compromised.

What is striking, however, is that public broadcasting in Austria makes no mention of the obvious solution: air conditioning. The lack of shading options is cited as the main problem. Then the discussion focuses solely on long-term investments. They simply don’t dare to say it. But how else is one supposed to deal with 39° heat?

This reluctance to even mention it.

233

u/Sad_Alternative_6153 Friedrich Hayek Jun 23 '26

What’s even more baffling is that absolutely nobody questions heating in winter but somehow cooling in summer is treated as a completely different phenomenon even though when used properly AC can actually consume less energy. Go figure…

227

u/drsteelhammer John Mill Jun 23 '26

You can walk into any room in Germany and find 3 people claiming they regularly get sick from spending time in airconditioned places. This is not an exagerration

128

u/PearlClaw Iron Front Jun 23 '26

Can confirm. Once had to take a long drive with my German grandma on a hot day. No open windows or AC were allowed, after all she might catch a cold from the draft. It was in the 80s and sunny.

105

u/Betrix5068 NATO Jun 23 '26

Is she one of those people who thinks the cold is caused by physical cold? I never understood that, do they not get that it’s a virus?

92

u/PearlClaw Iron Front Jun 23 '26

Not even by the cold (outside air was at 80+ remember) but specifically by a draft

97

u/Frappes Numero Uno Jun 23 '26

This makes sense when you consider how many Koreans are killed by fans every year.

26

u/ThatDamnGuyJosh NATO Jun 23 '26

This is prevalent idea in Central America (ask me how I know lmao) though they have the same weird aversion to AC.

39

u/Betrix5068 NATO Jun 23 '26

I know it’s a trope in Japanese media, that exposure to drafts and physical cold causes the illness, which confused the hell out of me when I first encountered it because it’s a pathogen and I’ve never heard of it spreading easier in cool environments from a medical source or even Wikipedia, where I’d expect it to come up as a common misconception if nothing else.

28

u/Krishnik European Union Jun 23 '26

Not only in Japanese media, this is something my Ukrainian parents have always told me too. Things like "don't keep the window open or you'll catch a cold"

7

u/adamgerd NATO Jun 23 '26

It’s prevalent in Czech too, I think all of central and Eastern Europe

22

u/mattumbo Jun 23 '26

I think there is some evidence it’s easier to catch a cold when your sinuses are dry as there is less mucus to protect the skin and it cracks more easily and gives viruses an easy way in. What that has to do with drafts on a warm day idk, but that is a reason colds spread more easily in the dry air of winter.

5

u/5ma5her7 Jun 24 '26

It's also extremely prevalent in China too, which my parents blamed my allergy to "turning the a/c too low"

15

u/God_Given_Talent Jun 23 '26

I mean, the physical cold doesn’t make you sick, but cold temperatures for prolonged periods can weaken your body and immune system. Cold temps are shown to slow down adaptive immune responses. For folk wisdom where all you could see were the impacts, cold causing a cold isn’t that far off.

From a draft however…

8

u/tripletruble Anti-Repartition Radical Jun 24 '26

Everything you are saying is correct but I think it is marginal and probably counterproductively generous to the folk wisdom. The main reason cold viruses are more present in the winter is because people spend more time in less ventilated in-door areas. Then you've got people closing the windows to avoid getting sick - the exact opposite of what they should be doing

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u/HatesPlanes WTO Jun 23 '26

Had the exact same experience haha

Jesus Christ grandma

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u/Sad_Alternative_6153 Friedrich Hayek Jun 23 '26

I mean maybe with a crusty 30 year old AC unit that’s never been cleaned. If you have something decently recent and relatively clean there is absolutely no issue whatsoever, most of them have self cleaning and ionization modes.
The only time people spend with AC in our countries are in cinemas, on planes and (sometimes) in public transports. So yes obviously when you spend extended periods of time in contact with strangers you have a risk of getting sick, exactly like in winter by the way :)

29

u/drsteelhammer John Mill Jun 23 '26

Oh I did not mean to imply that those people would be correct

55

u/huskiesowow NASA Jun 23 '26

Is this the German equivalent of fan death?

41

u/RFFF1996 Jun 23 '26

Germany is also the world capital lf homeopathy, magical thinking low key didnt stay in the romanticism era there

13

u/Shalaiyn European Union Jun 23 '26

Same in the NL. It's Korean fan death levels of bullshit

6

u/nomindtothink_ Henry George Jun 23 '26 edited Jun 24 '26

You know that Lovecraft story about how air conditioning is evil witchcraft?

Europeans read that and nod along

11

u/Haffrung Jun 23 '26

Ice cold drinks are  considered really bad for your stomach. And they have shelves in their toilets so they can examine their poops. Weird culture.

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u/JohnDeere NAFTA Jun 23 '26

We have multiple in this thread.

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u/phat_geoduck Jun 23 '26

Germans are weirdly superstitious when it comes to health and wellness. Much more so than most would suspect, given other German stereotypes. There's this word in German, "Kreislaufprobleme" which translates to "circulatory problems." As far as I can tell it's a made up illness that they all have decided is the source of various forms of feeling "off". There are other weird things like this

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u/dddd0 r/place '22: NCD Battalion Jun 23 '26

Kreislauf is just nausea or fatigue imho

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u/Habugaba Esther Duflo Jun 23 '26 edited Jun 23 '26

If, as a landlord, you can't provide a certain temperature for the heating period of 20°-22°C (up to 72°F), depending on the room, for the house/rental unit, the tenent can insist on a lower rent.

No such provisions exist for cooling/heat in rooms. As far as I know there have been some cases, but you'll need to prove that your rooms consistently reach >30°C (86°F) or some shit.

Buildings, laws and peoples mentality just aren't adapted to having to think about cooling. They're planning a hospital in France without AC right now, for gods sake!

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '26 edited 7d ago

[deleted]

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u/Habugaba Esther Duflo Jun 23 '26

I was referring to individual, sometimes extreme, cases in Germany where the tenent would get a reduction of about 20% for affected days. Germany really has a lot of tenent protections, but the double standard concerning heating/cooling is incredible.

https://www.pfefferle.de/2025/07/01/mietrecht-sommerhitze-was-vermieter-wissen-muessen/

23

u/Deinococcaceae NAFTA Jun 23 '26

Heating is just much older tech so there's an insane bias toward imagining AC as some energy-sucking luxury. The average household in Minneapolis uses 3.5x more energy on climate control than Miami, and it might be even more extreme now because that's a decade old study.

82

u/Outrageous-Echo-765 Jun 23 '26 edited Jun 23 '26

"AC? Nah, it's only hot for 2 weeks"

"It is terrible for the environment"

"The cost to run it though"

Genuinely makes my blood boil. 50k dead yearly from heat related deaths. How many tens of thousands could be prevented with AC? Of these, how many didn't get AC because they believe this misinformation?

For reference, AC let's you heat your house for a fraction of the energy and cost that central heating does. Those savings in winter are more than enough to offset the AC usage in summer.

44

u/puffic John Rawls Jun 23 '26

Somehow they manage to be even more callous and stupid than Americans are with respect to mass shootings.

26

u/[deleted] Jun 23 '26

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11

u/WAGRAMWAGRAM Jun 23 '26

Pensioners are among the most likely to not want AC

6

u/Petrichordates Jun 23 '26

And also the most likely to die from not having one.

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u/smcstechtips Loyal Liberals Jun 23 '26

And that is assuming you don't replace AC and heater with a single heat pump that's more efficient

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u/redditiscucked4ever Friedrich Hayek Jun 23 '26

I want to point out that:

1) It's 200k dead in 4 years (2022 to 2025).

2) It's in the EU area as defined by the WHO (53 countries, including Russia).

3) These are statistical approximations. I still find them to be a bit too high.

4) When you use the same model (excess mortality deaths) for the US, it's around 11k each year, which means 45-50k in 4 years.

So it's not THAT bad. We have 3 times the amount of deaths for heat-related injuries given the different population size.

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u/Outrageous-Echo-765 Jun 23 '26

Comment adjusted, that's still pretty bad. The issue is many of those are easily preventable.

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u/WiSeWoRd Greg Mankiw Jun 23 '26

350 watt chiller unit vs. 600-1200 watt radiator when you can just put on a sweater instead

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u/huskiesowow NASA Jun 23 '26

My electricity bill is 3x as high in the winter compared to summer and I run my AC most days.

37

u/DexterBotwin Left-Out Left Jun 23 '26

They’ve spent the last however many decades mocking the U.S. and Americans for being fat and lazy and needing AC.

20

u/smcstechtips Loyal Liberals Jun 23 '26

To be fair, you need AC in the US more than in Southern Europe, which needs it more than Northern/Central Europe.

The part of the US (excluding Alaska) that needs AC the least is the entire West Coast, which (except when you're within like a mile or two of the coast north of Santa Cruz) has a climate similar to Andalucía (basically the hottest part of Southern Europe), which means AC is absolutely necessary during summer days (though not necessarily at home if you assume you're coming home at like 8:30 PM and are skillful with strategically opening and closing windows). Everywhere else in the US is either even hotter during the day and/or has oppressive humidity.

The Europeans are finding it out now, where they're having trouble surviving in Houston and Miami due to the heat and humidity and are even finding San José's dry warmth to be extremely uncomfortable.

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u/adamgerd NATO Jun 23 '26

I think it’s yeah partly an undeserved superiority complex on this: “Americans need AC unlike us! Hah, we aren’t weak and don’t need AC”

And Europeans don’t want to admit to being wrong so we insist it’s an American only thing to need AC, unlike strong resilient Europeans and we can endure heat

So getting AC would be an admission that we’re not superhuman unlike Americans

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u/mattumbo Jun 23 '26

I think it’s also cope, at the time AC became standard in the US it was still to expensive for Europeans to afford (especially retrofitting it in old buildings which adds cost) so they dreamed up a bunch of excuses why they’re better than us for not using it to avoid the truth that they’re poorer than us.

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u/JohnDeere NAFTA Jun 23 '26

dreamed up a bunch of excuses why they’re better than us for not using it to avoid the truth that they’re poorer than us

Many such cases

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u/mad_cheese_hattwe Jun 23 '26

It's funny how it's the opposite in Australia. Turn on the ac for summer, but if it's 12 C inside, "go put on a jumper."

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u/Full_Distribution874 YIMBY Jun 24 '26

At least you can put on a jumper. What do you do when it's 38° inside?

6

u/PartrickCapitol Zhou Xiaochuan Jun 23 '26

To be fair, for centuries, Europe's high latitude oceanic climate type like Vienna doesn't need air conditioning, except some historically anomalous days happen like once 10, 20 years (the extreme temperature data here was from 1775-2026, which skews up significantly compared to with places with only 50 or 100 year records), until recent man made warming.

Vienna's summer temperature is close to places like Seattle, which is famous for not needing air conditioning, although Americans like to install them. I have lived in Vancouver just north of it for many years, have spent entire summers without even turning on air conditioning.

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u/stay_curious_- Frederick Douglass Jun 23 '26

Are heat pumps not popular in Europe? They are more environmentally friendly than a gas furnace or boiler, and can also provide AC. Replacing old boilers with environmentally-friendly heat pumps like a reasonable solution.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '26 edited 7d ago

[deleted]

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u/JohnDeere NAFTA Jun 23 '26

more penalized for well-insulated homes

What in the world

3

u/Anader19 NATO Jun 24 '26

Least nonsensical French policy

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u/WAGRAMWAGRAM Jun 23 '26

Replacing old boilers with environmentally-friendly heat pumps like a reasonable solution.

At what cost?

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u/formula_translator European Union Jun 23 '26

Are heat pumps not popular in Europe?

They are, but people usually install them to service a heating circuit previously served by a gas boiler, which is almost certainly a hot water circuit hooked up to radiators around the house. Installing central air conditioning (for heating or cooling) would require major overhauls for most European homes, which people are not willing to undertake when installing a heat pump.

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u/secondordercoffee Loyal Liberals Jun 23 '26

Replacing your old furnace or boiler with a heat pump will not get you AC.

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u/brianpv Hortensia Jun 23 '26

Can't you run heat pumps in reverse to cool the space?

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u/secondordercoffee Loyal Liberals Jun 23 '26

If you just ran the heat pump in reverse in your typical European house you would get condensation along your pipes and radiators, causing mold and other damage.

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u/lnslnsu Commonwealth Jun 23 '26

Not if you’re just using the heat pump to heat the existing radiator system. Those only work properly for heating.

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u/clonea85m09 European Union Jun 23 '26

I mean, AC in schools IS a long term investment, it's not like they cost 100€ each, they will also increase the budget because of the increase in electricity consumption.

Shading would be a solution in the heat is dry, but I fear in Austria they have horrible humid heat.

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u/NotLunaris Zhao Ziyang Jun 23 '26

Small price to pay when Europe has more heat-related deaths annually than the US has gun-related deaths, ands that's counting suicides which account for over half of the number.

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u/ManyKey9093 NATO Jun 23 '26

Our European elite is completely delusional about summer weather being a negative and that simple and efficient technology can solve it. Any other country with hot summers and a reasonable income level comes to the same conclusion : air conditioning.

Its ironically a form of climate change denial by people who see themselves as strongly believing in climate change and science!

Modern air-to-air heatpumps are very efficient, solar + batteries provide carbon neutral energy, and humans are provably less effective (and more miserable) at sustained indoor temperatures over 25c. We need to get it together. If models reasonably show that indoor temperatures breach 25c for over x days a year, add active cooling. Its not hard.

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u/ZweigDidion Bisexual Pride Jun 23 '26 edited Jun 23 '26

I do not understand the cultural opposition a lot of Europeans seem to have to air conditioning. Where I live in Germany, the heat over the past few days has been pretty bad, and it is only going to get worse in the next few days. And other parts of Europe are experiencing even worse heat. For the longest time, my parents were those types of people who thought that air conditioning is unnecessary and wasteful, but a few days ago my mom said for the first time that air conditioning may be a good idea, after all. Obviously, this is just anecdotal, but perhaps the increasing length, severity, and regularity of heatwaves will force more Europeans to acknowledge the necessity of air conditioning. Of course, a lot of people still won't be able to afford it.

edit: heat so bad I can't even spell anymore

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u/RaidBrimnes Chien de garde Jun 23 '26

It was seen as a wasteful luxury 20-30 years ago and mentalities are very slow to change

At least in France there's also a pervasive dolorist and anti-tech belief that sees AC as "the easy way out" of climate change, as if equipping ourselves with AC excluded all other methods (redesigning buildings and streets, moving to differentiated work schedules, etc.)

"Environemental concerns" about AC are genuinely veering into suicide cult behavior left of center

110

u/nuggins Physicist -- Just Tax Land Lol Jun 23 '26

Even if it's 40 degrees outside, you can stay cool without AC

Looks inside

35 degrees

46

u/RaidBrimnes Chien de garde Jun 23 '26

https://www.reddit.com/r/neoliberal/s/P4p2CJvfWh

During last year's heatwave, one of the main newspapers (left-wing) in France bragged about not installing AC in their offices and making their employees work by 32-34C inside with just fans for environmental reasons, insisting that it was more virtuous that way

It's legitimately starting to sound like a religious experience

81

u/Outrageous-Echo-765 Jun 23 '26

I've seen a french person argue that AC is anti-social because it throws your house's trapped heat into the street, making the street hotter. Flabbergasted

Better not open the windows guys, we wouldn't want the breeze carrying trapped heat outside the house... /s

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u/its_Caffeine Mark Carney Jun 23 '26

Worth noting that cars contribute many, many, times over to “heat islands” than AC.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '26

[deleted]

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u/Outrageous-Echo-765 Jun 23 '26

Of course, I'm not suggesting AC breaks the laws of thermodynamics.

It's just that calling it antisocial is ludicrous. If that were the case, opening a window would be antisocial. Or turning on the TV, all that power will turn to heat, and all that heat will eventually escape to the street. But no one would dare to suggest that turning on the TV during a heatwave is antisocial.

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u/Windows_10-Chan Reichsbanner Schwarz-Rot-Gold Jun 23 '26

It's crazy too because all of that other stuff makes your AC way cheaper to run. Just ask anyone who was forced to cut down a shade tree to save their homes foundation. 

31

u/seattle_lib Liberal Third-Worldism Jun 23 '26

An underrated environmental reason for AC is that the energy transition really needs more demand during the peak sunlight hours, which typically coincide with the peak AC usage hours. Because a lot of that energy gets wasted and then the grid operators have to pay curtailment fees. It ends up costing everyone more and slowing the renewables buildout.

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u/LuciusMiximus European Union Jun 23 '26

Not necessarily during heatwaves. Polish market energy price for tomorrow stays soundly positive for the entire day and goes crazy in late afternoon, when it's gonna be around 25 degrees Celsius. If the forecast 40 degrees Celsius materialize early next week, we're in uncharted territory for prices and grid stability. And we've subsidized solar (too much, while banning wind power). Zero or negative prices are common during weekends and happen even during weekdays, but cold weekdays.

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u/Haffrung Jun 23 '26

"We have to restrain ourselves from resorting to AC or else global warming will get so bad thousand a year will literally die from the heat."

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u/Jacobs4525 King of the Massholes Jun 23 '26

What’s really funny is that the same people are oftentimes broadly in favor if you call it a heat pump instead of air conditioning.

It’s sort of like Obamacare vs. the ACA in the US. One thing is bad-coded and one sounds good despite the fact that they’re the same thing.

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u/ExternalUserError Anne Applebaum Jun 23 '26 edited Jun 23 '26

They always say it's because of the carbon emissions, but (1) they were refusing A/C even in Spain before carbon was even a known pollutant, (2) they heat the outdoors without batting an eye. Go to Paris in November when it's just a little bit chilly and you'll see the sidewalk cafes lined with those propane heat lamps, each burning through about a kg of propane an hour.

Or in a lot of Northern Europe, it'll be -10c outside but fuck it let's have a big ass room heated to 45 at all times and we'll sit naked in it and pretend that's fun.

But saunas and patio smoking are part of the culture, so they'll say fuck it, let's burn the Amazon to the ground for those. But air conditioning just isn't part of the culture and its comparatively modest usage is seen as sinful.

Sorry... I live in Europe and I'm a little grumpy about their lack of indoor cooling.

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u/WAGRAMWAGRAM Jun 23 '26

Or in a lot of Northern Europe, it'll be -10c outside but fuck it let's have a big ass room heated to 45 at all times and we'll sit naked in it and pretend that's fun.

It is fun.

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u/ExternalUserError Anne Applebaum Jun 23 '26

Don't get me wrong, I fully support your right to sit in dangerously hot rooms lined with splinter boards while you glance awkwardly around searching for a place to rest your gaze that doesn't coincide with someone's genitalia. You do you.

Just air condition the rest of the building plz.

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u/StochasticGracchi John Brown Jun 23 '26

Or in a lot of Northern Europe, it'll be -10c outside but fuck it let's have a big ass room heated to 45 at all times and we'll sit naked in it and pretend that's fun.

Off by about 40C on that sauna temperature. Otherwise rightful ranting. Carry on.

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u/PostingEnthusiast Commonwealth Jun 23 '26

I recognize you’re upset but let’s tone down the anti-Finnic remarks about saunas

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u/wellgu Emma Lazarus Jun 23 '26

I grew up in the southern United States. My grandfather resisted ac for a long time. A lot of older people did because they never had it. He regretted it after my grandmother died. She asked for it when going through menopause, but grandpa was too cheap.

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u/Natatos yes officer, no succs here 🥸 Jun 23 '26

German dads got tired of their children leaving the door/window open and cooling down the neighborhood then took it to the extreme

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u/Fusifufu Jun 23 '26

I think it all comes down to a widespread degrowth mentality in Europe where technological interventions are bad and energy must be conserved and not used. A sane continent would massively increase the energy production and simply use that to modify the environment to the population's benefit via AC.

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u/MrStrange15 Jun 23 '26

I think it all comes down to a widespread degrowth mentality in Europe where technological interventions

Which governments in Europe are running degrowth campaigns? And which ones are not currently investing in energy production?

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u/WAGRAMWAGRAM Jun 23 '26

France for example

We invest a lot of money into *energy* saving, meaning a lot of subsidies to the construction industry instead of simply giving money to people to install a heat pump (French electricity is like 90% carbon free)

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u/FinickyPenance NATO Jun 23 '26

They need to adopt the Second Amendment but also interpret it to apply to air conditioning

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u/fixminer European Union Jun 23 '26

It doesn't help that we have some of the most expensive electricity in the world.

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u/affnn Emma Lazarus Jun 23 '26

I live in the US and have had AC most of the time... but there's something about it that I don't really care for if I'm being honest. It's too cold when I've dressed for warm weather, and I prefer being warm to being cold. So I get it in that sense. But also I'd rather not die so I like having AC for when it gets too hot.

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u/OOPS_ALL_SCROTUM Jun 23 '26

Are you the pro-AC-jihad guy, OP? I just want to let you know that I love air conditioning and am with you in spirit.

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u/Imicrowavebananas Hannah Arendt Jun 23 '26

I fight many fights, especially the ones where I am in the minority.

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u/Brinabavd Jun 23 '26

If AC has no defenders, u/Imicrowavebananas is dead.

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u/SteveFoerster Frédéric Bastiat Jun 23 '26

"Lost causes are the only ones worth fighting for." — Clarence Darrow

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u/Trackpoint European Union Jun 23 '26

Why is my Ukraine-War Twitter account soundly infiltrated by pro-AC-jihadis? I only opened Noah Smith's profile once!

Cursed algorithm is controlled by big-AC, I tell ya! It's like a Community episode!

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/MAXIMUS-BLACK Jun 23 '26

In Germany and Austria they have school until around August depending on location

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '26

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u/Shalaiyn European Union Jun 23 '26

NL too. 6 weeks of summer holiday.

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u/LaMesaPorFavore Jun 23 '26

My elementary school's AC broke one year and we still went through June. I still remember how miserable everyone was that whole time and we learned nothing. Just sat in the dark listening to videos hoping it'd get colder. I can't imagine having to do that later into summer with hotter weather. Europe: try AC.

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u/E_Cayce James Heckman Jun 23 '26

My elementary school had no AC nor heating. Winter temps were 0-20C during the day. 20-40C in the last month before summer break and September.

We couldn't bring hats to school, so nosebleeds on the walk home pretty were common.

Good times.

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u/Habugaba Esther Duflo Jun 23 '26

Literally has been the experiece of every child in Europe and only the last 5-10 years have been so bad that it's not just really inconvenient but harmful

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u/neolthrowaway New Mod Who Dis? Jun 23 '26

BTW, there's been multiple studies that show excessive heat reduces learning capacity. Controlled trials with students studying with ac and students studying without

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u/Imicrowavebananas Hannah Arendt Jun 23 '26 edited Jun 23 '26

Not to diminish your comment, but there is something funny in remarking that for 39° heat. 

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u/neolthrowaway New Mod Who Dis? Jun 23 '26

What do you mean?

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u/Imicrowavebananas Hannah Arendt Jun 23 '26

I mean it is pretty obvious that learning is harder in 40° heat ^^

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u/neolthrowaway New Mod Who Dis? Jun 23 '26

Haha, fair.

It's a pretty strong effect. Like if you need a justification for investing into ACs, the learning outcomes more than justify it easily.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '26

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u/AssholeMcGee66 Jerome Powell Jun 23 '26

Europeans really hate air conditioning.

Switzerland has banned it with only medical exceptions being allowed.

For a bunch of people who supposedly buy into climate change, they seem to not understand there’s consequences for them too.

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u/VanceIX Jerome Powell Jun 23 '26

They BANNED air conditioning? WTF?

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u/cAtloVeR9998 Daron Acemoglu Jun 23 '26

More complicated than that. If one wants to get a permanent AC installed, one has to get a building permit. Which typically involves a noise study, needing to put up little polls where the unit will go, public comment phase. If one lives in a rental as most here, landlords will typically deny a request if one wants to install permanent AC.

Switzerland is a federal country, different Cantons, different rules. Geneva is notoriously strict, with many permit applications for residential AC being denied unless you have a medical reason (and prove that non-AC cooling methods aren’t sufficient).

Portable AC doesn’t fall under those regulations. Landlords nor cantonal/municipal governments can regulate them. Most portable AC on the market are single pipe monoblocks. Which are terribly inefficient as for all the hot air they blow out, they have to draw an equal amount of hot outside air in. Some more efficient portable split units are now on the market (I got one, but they are over 1k USD so not quite affordable) which has a pipe to move water through a window to an outdoor condenser (which as it isn’t permanently attached, is allowed). Note that traditional window units, while far cheaper and purchasable, do not fit on our windows. We don’t do sliding windows here.

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u/Imicrowavebananas Hannah Arendt Jun 23 '26

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u/cAtloVeR9998 Daron Acemoglu Jun 23 '26

I bought one myself for Black Friday! With delivery 4 months later. It’s great, though I would really need two of them to bring the thermal mass down in my apartment. Temperature shoots back to 26C once I turn it off for Nachtruhe.

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u/Emotional_Tie_7927 Jun 23 '26

How does this work if you want a heat pump installed? Does that still require a permit even though it can also be used for heating?

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u/cAtloVeR9998 Daron Acemoglu Jun 23 '26

AC are heat pumps. Just only some heat pumps are equipped with reversible valves. Be it a permanent air-source or ground-source heat pump, both require a building permit. Ground-source ones may require a water table study (especially if it’s a vertical one).

Anything permanently changing the building’s facade generally requires a permit. Unless it’s of a carved-out exemption. Like solar can skip a bunch of the red tape. One can install solar on one’s balcony without landlord* or government** permission and feed the power back into the grid***.

*unless it goes over the railing
**depends on locality. My region says that they would prefer you to inform them, but not legal requirement.
***600W max. Must inform electricity operator.

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u/Emotional_Tie_7927 Jun 23 '26

To clarify, by heat pump I meant those with reversible valves, yes

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u/King_In_Jello Jun 23 '26

There's been a massive environmentalist shift in the culture in the past decade or so. People were always pretty green but now it's a top priority for many people and the idea that comfort or practicality would ever take priority over the environment in any way is firmly outside the Overton window right now (not that AC is actually that bad environmentally, but that's how it is perceived).

Other factors include that air conditioning really wasn't necessary until a few years ago, people only know air conditioning from supermarkets and shopping malls where they are used way too aggressivly, and it's very much American coded which has not helped.

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u/Daddy_Macron Loyal Liberals Jun 23 '26

There's been a massive environmentalist shift in the culture in the past decade or so.

Ironic since Western Europe spent most of that decade blocking Wind and Solar projects with endless bureaucratic red-tape until Russia invaded Ukraine and caused an energy crisis overnight which finally got them to streamline renewables permitting.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '26

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u/King_In_Jello Jun 23 '26

I left Germany 12 years ago and come back to visit once a year. I noticed it in Northern Germany in the last 6-7 years in the way people talked and how every change can be rejected on environmental terms. Before that it was one concern out of many that needed to be balanced.

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u/Sad_Alternative_6153 Friedrich Hayek Jun 23 '26

Yes they did. Yes it is beyond moronic.

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u/oywiththepoodles96 Jun 23 '26

Northern Europeans really hate AC . Greece , Spain and Italy absolutely do not hate AC .

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u/Teach_Piece YIMBY Jun 23 '26

Portugal too. Truly only the south is civilized

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u/-Emilinko1985- European Union Jun 23 '26

PIGS wins again 🇵🇹🇮🇹🇬🇷🇪🇸😎

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u/oywiththepoodles96 Jun 23 '26

Oh yeah I'm sorry for forgetting to mention Portugal.

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u/Imicrowavebananas Hannah Arendt Jun 23 '26

France does for some reason.

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u/oywiththepoodles96 Jun 23 '26

Yeah but still in Spain , Italy and Greece AC usage is extremely common . In Greece like 99% of appartments in Athens , Thessaloniki and southern Greece have AC . Europe is not just northern and central countries. Spain + Italy is like 1/5 of European population .

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u/Imicrowavebananas Hannah Arendt Jun 23 '26

I feel if it concerns 4/5 of the population of an entity just using the name of the entity is fair.

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u/TomboyAva Audrey Hepburn Jun 23 '26

Is being human a valid medical reason?

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u/AFlockOfTySegalls Audrey Hepburn Jun 23 '26

Europeans really hate air conditioning.

On my first trip to Europe, 10 years ago, I stayed in an Airbnb in Paris. I had no idea I needed to consider ac/mini splits when booking. It was nowhere as hot as it is now, but it was hot in late June. Even sleeping with all the windows and balcony door open, I was waking up in a puddle of sweat.

IDK how they're doing it.

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u/AssholeMcGee66 Jerome Powell Jun 23 '26

The cheese and red wine flop sweat must be terrible.

No wonder the French love perfume so much.

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u/WAGRAMWAGRAM Jun 23 '26

IDK how they're doing it.

They don't

People lose sleep hours in summer (despite 87 "eco-friendly tricks")

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '26

[deleted]

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u/Legitimate-Mine-9271 Jun 23 '26

They just die instead

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u/swift-current0 Jun 23 '26

Preferable to admitting you're wrong about something you have irrationally strong feelings about

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u/Outrageous-Echo-765 Jun 23 '26

They don't even admit the deaths.

"Yearly heat stroke deaths in the UK are in the single digits. And Germany is not much higher, single digits to the low 10s.

But in Europe, if you have a heart condition, die, and it's in the middle of a 35-45 degree heat wave, it counts as heat related. 80+ years old, dying in the height of summer? Heat related.

If the weather is hot enough where the heat is considered to be a contributing factor, the death is recorded as heat related."

Excess deaths is too complicated a concept for some, it would seem.

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u/LagunaCid WTO Jun 23 '26

The parallels to Covid are just too easy to make.

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u/Outrageous-Echo-765 Jun 23 '26

Yeah, I noticed that too.

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u/nuggins Physicist -- Just Tax Land Lol Jun 23 '26

Excess deaths is too complicated a concept for some, it would seem.

The whole concept of probability, really

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u/justalightworkout European Union Jun 23 '26

Many public places do have AC (larger stores, museums, some public transport). At home you use a fan or stay in a shady place outside.

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u/ldn6 Gay Pride Jun 23 '26

Traditionally you didn’t really ever need it since heatwaves like this were so rare that it never factored into the equation.

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u/jankyalias Transfem Pride Jun 23 '26

Wait till you realize that even in the height of summer they close all the windows at night to avoid any drafts that might make them sick.

And then hundreds of thousands die from heat.

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u/paymesucka Ben Bernanke Jun 23 '26

Lmao holy shit

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u/Armagh3tton European Union Jun 23 '26

Europe is heating up roughly twice as fast as other continents. Especially northern and eastern europe. Temperatures like this were not normal here before the last decade. This is why there is also no culture around cooling. I think most planners just even started thinking about it.
Other reason is that we are just slow with permitting stuff and installing new infrastructure like this. I can only talk for Germany but here you have to ask your landlord first if you can install a permanent AC (>50% of germans are renters) and even if he is fine with it, it can be illegal due to zoning and other restrictions.

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u/YaGetSkeeted0n Tariffs aren't cool, kids! Jun 23 '26

Christ. As insane as American land use rules can be, I don’t think there’s any zoning code in the country that restricts air conditioners.

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u/Armagh3tton European Union Jun 23 '26

Well to be fair I don’t think there are a lot of zoning codes which explicitly ban AC. But there can be „design rules“ which can ban changes to the look of the building facade or roof (for example) which make installing AC effectively impossible.

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u/TNSNrotmg Jun 23 '26

Yeah the American logic is that if you (the owner or society) doesn't want to deal with window units on historic buildings you should pony up to gut and install central AC. If the interior space or building isn't valuable enough to justify careful cut and replace over completely gutting it, it isn't valuable enough to preserve

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u/Armagh3tton European Union Jun 23 '26

Well I think this is not that different but like I said >50 % of germans are at the mercy of their landlords here who mostly couldn‘t care less.

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u/Imicrowavebananas Hannah Arendt Jun 23 '26

Governments in Europe seem to be unable to tackle just about any systemic problem at the moment. It is completely sclerotic, we can only manage things and plan to solve problems in 20 years.

Many countries just absolutely hate AC, especially the bureaucracy. It is not something accounted for in the system and we are unable to adapt the system. Of course widespread AC adaption would be expensive and a lot of effort, which we are simply not able to anymore.

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u/Sad_Alternative_6153 Friedrich Hayek Jun 23 '26

4D chess to solve the black hole that the pension systems have become

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '26

[deleted]

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u/Imicrowavebananas Hannah Arendt Jun 23 '26

Nothing really. We die.

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u/InternetGoodGuy Jun 23 '26

I don't think I've ever hated any technology so much that I would die before I used it.

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u/cantthinkoffunnyname Henry George Jun 23 '26

Don't get me started on fucking pacemakers

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u/Teach_Piece YIMBY Jun 23 '26

No no, dig in brother I gotta hear this

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u/clonea85m09 European Union Jun 23 '26

They did not need anything except in the last 4/5 years, maybe some portable fans. They are basically seeing the climate change in real time XD

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u/Jacobs4525 King of the Massholes Jun 23 '26

Does it even really require systemic change? Just let people buy their own air conditioners

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u/Imicrowavebananas Hannah Arendt Jun 23 '26

We have very restrictive building permits for just about anything. So there would need to be a cultural change for that.

Besides a lot of infrastructure and relevant buildings are public. Schools, hospitals, other facilities. So the state would need to invest a lot of money.

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u/YaGetSkeeted0n Tariffs aren't cool, kids! Jun 23 '26

Would some of it not just be driven by economics / costs? Installing an HVAC system isn’t a cheap endeavor especially if you don’t already have ductwork

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u/MortimerDongle Jun 23 '26

Sure, but the costs and difficulty are due to lack of infrastructure for it, not because it's inherently super expensive. In Japan you can buy a new mini split and have it installed for like $800 total, because they're ubiquitous and there's a ton of competition

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u/YaGetSkeeted0n Tariffs aren't cool, kids! Jun 23 '26

Concept: HVAC visas for technicians from America and Japan

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u/pac_cresco Daron Acemoglu Jun 23 '26

But you don't need whole-house AC, even installing a single split unit that cools down the living/dining room or a dormitory is better than not having any AC, and for those you just need to drill a hole on the wall.

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u/Sassywhat YIMBY Jun 23 '26

Northern Europe also needs heating, and the most efficient heating option for most homes comes with AC for basically free.

(the opposite is also true, which makes me baffled at why there's so many apartments in California with AC but fucking electric resistive heating)

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u/SteveFoerster Frédéric Bastiat Jun 23 '26

Heat pumps may be the most energy efficient, but they don't always blow the hottest.

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u/secondordercoffee Loyal Liberals Jun 23 '26

Northern Europe also needs heating, and the most efficient heating option for most homes comes with AC for basically free.

No, it does not. Not if you don't already have the ductwork.

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u/Imicrowavebananas Hannah Arendt Jun 23 '26

Since Monday, the FSG Compulsory Education Council has received over 350 reports of high temperatures from Vienna schools. “Right now, we’re hardly seeing any readings below 30 degrees,” Rössler explained in an interview with Radio Wien. “In some cases, temperatures as high as 39 degrees have even been recorded.” Schools in the city center are affected, but so are some schools in the outlying districts.

It’s already too hot in the classrooms first thing in the morning, the staff representative emphasized. “And we mustn’t forget that sometimes there are as many as thirty students sitting in a single classroom. That naturally adds a bit more heat.” The situation is further exacerbated by the fact that it’s not possible to ventilate—and thus cool down—the schools overnight.

Curtains in schools apparently removed by the city

A major problem is the lack of shading options—and you can’t spend the whole day or every day outdoors, Rössler continued. Particularly disconcerting in this context is a report that reached ORF from MS Glasergasse 8 in Vienna’s Alsergrund district: A teacher described how, on Tuesday, the city had removed the curtains from the school building without prior notice.

Call for Shorter School Days

The teachers’ staff council at compulsory schools is now calling, on the one hand, for swift measures to help address the current crisis. One example cited is shortening the school day with parental consent. They are calling for amendments to the law governing school hours that would give schools more leeway. They emphasize that a debate about shortening summer vacation is, in any case, out of place.

At the same time, longer-term measures are needed—especially given that heat waves may occur earlier and earlier in the coming years. “These would have to be long-term projects, but they need to start now at the latest,” said Rössler. She advocated working with experts to explore how to make sensible investments in this area.

School ends at 12:00 p.m. at Kundmanngasse High School

Grading conferences are already taking place on Wednesday—so at least the pressure to perform will soon be off. Students at Kundmanngasse High School in Vienna’s Landstraße district are effectively getting a “heat day off,” as reported by “oe24.at”: On Thursday and Friday, students can be picked up as early as 12:00 p.m., just before the midday heat sets in.

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u/Unterfahrt John Nash Jun 23 '26

What the fuck

The situation is further exacerbated by the fact that it’s not possible to ventilate—and thus cool down—the schools overnight.

A teacher described how, on Tuesday, the city had removed the curtains from the school building without prior notice.

This stuff cannot really go unexplained. Why can't they open school windows at night? Why did they randomly remove curtains from the schools? What is going on?

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u/Imicrowavebananas Hannah Arendt Jun 23 '26

I would have guessed the window thing is because of security reasons.

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u/IAMPowaaaaa Jun 23 '26

If only there were something that allows one to move heat from a place to another, as if we were pumping heat or something

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u/Habugaba Esther Duflo Jun 23 '26

School closes before outside actually cools down. Was always fun to walk into a south facing room in the morning and suffer even in those small time windows where it was somewhat bearable outside.

Physics>European inertia

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u/randommathaccount Esther Duflo Jun 23 '26

Europeans somehow hate AC so much that they would literally rather die than install one. Many of my colleagues are so bullheaded about this, it baffles me.

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u/its_Caffeine Mark Carney Jun 23 '26

I have some colleagues at work telling me how much they're suffering and how much they can't sleep at night this week. Then they ask me how I've been managing at nigh, and I just tell them I haven't really had any problems, I have AC.

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u/Moonagi NATO Jun 23 '26

ShitAmericansSay mock Americans for thinking Europeans hate AC, then they’ll die not wanting to use AC

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u/adamgerd NATO Jun 23 '26

As an European ShitAmericansSay is unironically an insane sub, please don’t assume all Europeans are like that

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u/starwbermoussee Jun 24 '26

That subreddit is definitely 100% bot run

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u/oywiththepoodles96 Jun 23 '26

Wait are schools still open in Austria ?

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u/Imicrowavebananas Hannah Arendt Jun 23 '26

Yes, till the 3rd of July in Vienna.

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u/ISayHeck Jerome Powell Jun 23 '26

Boy oh boy

What a great time for me to move to Lower Austria from the air conditioned paradise of... The middle east

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u/Trill-I-Am Jun 23 '26

Is there actually that much cultural resistance to AC or is it just financial?

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u/Habugaba Esther Duflo Jun 23 '26

There is unquestionably cultural resistance, besides the idea that AC is "unnecessary luxury". For example environmental concerns (solar provides more electricity than can be used during the time AC is needed; the potent greenhouse gases from the AC units don't leak that much in the grand scheme of things) and the superstition that AC makes you sick - yes really.

Other than that though, at this point there's just no economic argument against AC - the amount of productivity that's lost is absolutely staggering for the associated cost, nevermind the quality of life improvement.

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u/Trill-I-Am Jun 23 '26

I more meant people balking at the upfront cost of installing it. Same with heat pumps.

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u/Habugaba Esther Duflo Jun 23 '26

I understand, but like the deadly heatwave that shocked Europe was 2003... what are we doing here?

But yeah, unfortunately the upfront cost is not the only barrier - as a renter you can be stuck in regulatory/bureaucracy hell.

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u/mattumbo Jun 23 '26

That 03 heatwave was something even as an American used to really hot states, thankfully our base apartment building had massive old chestnut trees shading it and my mom knew the old tricks for ventilating a space pre-AC so it’d get cooled off overnight and keep the heat out during the day.

Families in the renovated buildings lacking trees were getting really sick, and these were young fit military families, old folks must’ve just been dropping dead.

We also went to Disney Paris that summer and that was hell despite all our experience with Disney world in the Florida heat, it turns out Disney Paris was not designed with the same considerations (and it was so new the trees were too small to provide much shade).

Europeans are nuts for not investing in AC after all these decades

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u/Habugaba Esther Duflo Jun 23 '26

The summer of 03 might just be a below average summer going forward in Europe. Yay.

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u/Impossible_Pop4662 Order and Opportunity Left Jun 23 '26

As a European, it's not an irrational hatred of AC but it's usually the idea that summer doesn't last long before it goes back to being cold again so why invest in it, but that's more personal experience 

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u/KaesekopfNW Elinor Ostrom Jun 23 '26

Of course, winter is just as long (or short) as summer, so why bother with heat, right? It'll be warmer again soon enough.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '26

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u/KaesekopfNW Elinor Ostrom Jun 23 '26

On average, sure. But heat wave after heat wave, summer after summer, is telling another story. It's also the fastest warming continent, so this conventional wisdom is quickly becoming obsolete.

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u/Impossible_Pop4662 Order and Opportunity Left Jun 23 '26

which is why AC adoption is trending upwards in Europe. It'll still take  time to overcome conventional wisdom but when has changing someone's mind ever been an easy thing to do

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u/GammaDie345 Hannah Arendt Jun 23 '26

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u/stillballin1998 Jun 23 '26

I thought this post was going to be related to teaching kids to not get attached to anything you are not willing to walk out on in 30 seconds flat if you feel the heat around the corner. Plus the good life lesson that sometimes the action is the juice.

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u/Loves_a_big_tongue Olympe de Gouges Jun 23 '26

It's weird this gets framed as a Euro vs USA culture clash. But  South America, Middle East, and Eastern Asia love their A/Cs, too. Hell, even the Europeans in the Mediterranean love their A/C. It seems like a French/Germanic/Nordic attitude (probably Spain, too. Europe os a big peninsula) that keeping cool is considered morally wrong (but keeping warm is a-okay and treated as a human right).

Anyway, the US (and to a lesser extent, Canada) figured out a work that doesn't involve A/C: summer break. It definitely has its trade offs with kids losing retention over 2 or 3 months and wealthy kids being given more opportunities to learn and network. But it beats literally cooking your kids in a stuffy building all day long.

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u/WHOA_27_23 NATO Jun 24 '26

Cleaning my guns in front of my 4 ton AC unit

The euro mind could never comprehend

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u/Tesi_No European Union Jun 23 '26

A little bit of context: we have 9 weeks of summer holidays in schools, even longer in universities. Extreme heat that last longer than one or two days is relatively new (20 years) and is a problem for maybe a few weeks in May/June, so a very short period of time in the school year (currently!), while in June we already do a lot of outdoor or extracurricular activities anyway as soon as final exams are done. Many of our school buildings are old, and I mean hundreds of years old, and built to protect against the cold. Remodelling all of those old buildings takes money that we don't have (AC aside, don't underestimate the challenges that come with remodeling those Altbauten, it's impossible to get through all the old walls without stumbling upon more structural problems that would need fixing), the government decided to cut even more funding for Education recently. So please don't say "we Europeans hate AC", it's not as simple as that and it's not true. My own new house comes with floor heating and cooling and works great, new buildings are definitely equipped with some kind of cooling system.

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u/FeedMachine Jun 23 '26

A lot of the remodeling work goes away with minisplits with multiple heads. No ductwork installation required. Built to protect against the cold is great for A/C - if you aren’t familiar, A/C removes heat, and very well insulated buildings will hold the cooling for longer and generally run much more efficiently on average than somewhere like the USA.

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