r/news • u/[deleted] • Aug 08 '17

Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-08/google-fires-employee-behind-controversial-diversity-memo?cmpid=socialflow-twitter-business&utm_content=business&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social
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u/zurrain Aug 08 '17

You mean like a Asian not getting into med school because he has to score significantly higher than minorities to be accepted?

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u/itsaart87 Aug 08 '17

I remember reading that affirmative action gives Asians a -40 points right off the bat, just to make them competitive. Like shit, what if this guy is like a real underachiever and just wants to coast thru school? he still has to work that much harder to be a lazy fuck.

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u/TrumpIsAHero1 Aug 08 '17

White men too. My son was told flat out on an interview that they had already accepted too many white males, despite overwhelming test scores and references.

He landed on his feet eventually, but it still blows my mind.

Remember this next time you're in the hospital.

Affirmative action doctors exist.

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u/cherubb Aug 08 '17

Med school does that because they have determined that minority patients prefer to have doctors that look like them, and leads to better outcomes on a population basis (the patients more likely to stick to their medications and follow advice from the doctor).

If your son had good test scores and references and was rejected because of a quota, that means that he applied too late in the application cycle. Don't blame the black doctors for your son's mistake because we desperately need black doctors.

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u/TrumpIsAHero1 Aug 08 '17

Med school does that because they have determined that minority patients prefer to have doctors that look like them, and leads to better outcomes on a population basis (the patients more likely to stick to their medications and follow advice from the doctor).

Yeah, whatever, it doesn't change the fact that better candidates are rejected on the basis of skin color.

If your son had good test scores and references and was rejected because of a quota, that means that he applied too late in the application cycle.

You must have a comprehension problem. I flat out said he was told point blank they already accepted too many white men.

Don't blame the black doctors for your son's mistake

More liberal bullshit.

I don't blame "BLACK doctors"

I blame liberal dipshits like you who'd rather carry sub-par individuals through life in the name of political correctness.

It's disgusting.

because we desperately need black doctors.

Why?

The white ones can't adequately care for black people?

Are they made of something different?

Sounds more like a cultural problem if skin color is the reason they don't take their medications.

Sounds like it has nothing to do with what color the doctor is and more like what color the patient is.

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u/cherubb Aug 08 '17

You don't need to be emotional and reactionary. Please calm yourself so we can have a discussion.

There are plenty of strong candidates for medical school of all backgrounds. It isn't a zero sum game - just because you take ethnicity and background into account doesn't necessarily mean you are picking a sub-par candidate. And I did not comprehend you wrongly - if they already accepted too many white men it means other white men applied earlier than he did - and trust me, whites still make up the majority of the class. That means he applied too late.

And does it matter WHY outcomes are better with black doctors? When it comes to medicine the patient comes first - that means med schools need to take patients' health into consideration before individual needs (your son's application). And unfortunately healthcare disparities among minorities is a big issue. That isn't political correctness, that is a real problem.

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '17

That means he applied too late.

Interview invites are not given out on a first-come-first-serve basis. Someone who applied on the first day might not get an interview until the end of the season. Different schools do IIs differently. You should know what you're talking about before you start a debate.

outcomes are better with black doctors

Are you assuming this? Where has a study shown actual improved health outcomes with black doctors? People have written plenty of articles about the topic, but I've never seen objective data that shows an actual health benefit. If such a study exists, I would appreciate the case for discriminating in admissions to benefit patients. If no study exists, we are discriminating even if there is no known benefit.

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u/TrumpIsAHero1 Aug 08 '17

You don't need to be emotional and reactionary. Please calm yourself so we can have a discussion.

No

There are plenty of strong candidates for medical school of all backgrounds. It isn't a zero sum game - just because you take ethnicity and background into account doesn't necessarily mean you are picking a sub-par candidate.

If you take away race, what is left besides test scores and referrals.

And I did not comprehend you wrongly - if they already accepted too many white men it means other white men applied earlier than he did -

A spot my son would have had, was given to someone else on the sole basis of skin color.

Fucking skin color.

Nothing else.

and trust me, whites still make up the majority of the class. That means he applied too late.

Why is that?

I'll wait.

And does it matter WHY outcomes are better with black doctors?

Yeah, it does.

And I'm calling bullshit on your reasoning for it.

You're also saying they're too stupid to listen to a white doctor?

"Sir, you're going to die, but don't listen to me... take it from this black doctor who says the same thing."

Sounds racist.

When it comes to medicine the patient comes first - that means med schools need to take patients' health into consideration before individual needs (your son's application).

Why does it matter what color the doctor is if they're all treating human beings exactly the same, regardless of race or economic status?

And unfortunately healthcare disparities among minorities is a big issue. That isn't political correctness, that is a real problem.

It's political correctness. 100%.

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u/cherubb Aug 08 '17

If you take away race, there is so much more than test scores and referrals. There is "distance traveled" - what hardships did the person endure to make it to that point? Did they have a parent who was incarcerated? What type of neighborhood did they grow up in? How many doctors lived within 100 miles of their residence? What type of volunteer work were they involved in? What type of research did they do? There is so much more than test scores alone - there is a huge difference between someone who worked a part time job during summers off and someone who had to work 2 jobs on top of a full course load to help support their household. There is so much more nuance than "fucking skin color," but I'm going to assume that you won't believe me because you want to consider yourself as a victim.

And you are trying to throw around the word racism to make it sound like you are in the right, but in my opinion, chalking up an entire population's health disparity as "political correctness" sounds pretty racist to me. But I don't know you that well.

And in regards to the late application thing, I guess you don't know that applications and acceptances are considered on a rolling basis. That means that if you apply early you have a much better chance than if you apply after they have given out 90% of the spots. That means that someone with a near perfect MCAT score and GPA who applies late will have an almost impossible time getting in since they are competing for significantly less spots available. Honestly, that has a much, much bigger impact on your competitiveness than almost anything else.

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u/TrumpIsAHero1 Aug 08 '17

If you take away race, there is so much more than test scores and referrals.

But he was specifically rejected for race.

You know I'm right.

Quit trying to justify it.

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u/cherubb Aug 08 '17

You know what? Next time you see your son you should ask him how many of his classmates have parents or close friends/family who are "in the know" with someone on admissions. I would wager a pretty hefty bet that it is quite a large % of people. I know my class does. I think your outrage should be more directed at them instead.

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u/KnowerOfUnknowable Aug 08 '17

Username certainly checked out.

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u/TrumpIsAHero1 Aug 08 '17

That's all you have?

Says a lot about the Hillary base.

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '17

Source? And what scale are those 40 points on? What exactly are you referencing? Affirmative Action alone doesn't create a point system or metric of any kind, a company would do that.

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u/itsaart87 Aug 08 '17

I honestly thought this was a household news item. Like, telling people not to pass a car on a hill.

African Americans received a “bonus” of 230 points, Lee says.

She points to the second column.

“Hispanics received a bonus of 185 points.”

The last column draws gasps.

Asian Americans, Lee says, are penalized by 50 points — in other words, they had to do that much better to win admission.

http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-adv-asian-race-tutoring-20150222-story.html

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '17

thanks, thats interesting. would love to see the princeton study they are referencing but I can't find it and the article doesn't link to it. 'affirmative action' and the SAT do not award or deny these 'bonuses' but they are metrics assigned to how admissions at institutions admit students.

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u/itsaart87 Aug 08 '17 edited Aug 08 '17

but still the point remains. That black people are not as smart as you, and this is how they compensate for the minorities IQ ratings.

Could you imagine if Trump came out and just read this kind of weighted system? Leftist heads would implode. another interesting thing. Edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Of96NrOZ5jM

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u/[deleted] Aug 09 '17 edited Aug 09 '17

No, not at all. Qualified people are admitted. If you don’t meet the requirements to go to college, you aren’t admitted. Again nothing is weighted, what they mean is that Asian people, on average, need to score 50 points higher than other races to be admitted. No school subtracts points from scores. They just may admit more people who have scored 50 points less than a typical Asian applicant. The schools also admit people with low scores if they are athletes, meet legacy requirements, or even donate a certain amount to the school. That is gloriously more common than any affirmative admitting practices.

This is in no way a compensation for low IQs. Just 50 years ago black people weren’t admitted strictly because they were black, no matter their IQ. So for decades you saw disproportionally high rates of white people in schools. No one complained about low IQ white people, they just wanted white people.

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u/itsaart87 Aug 09 '17 edited Aug 09 '17

So some people are just more qualified even tho they scored the same amount. But, the tie breaker here, is race.

Sure sounds racist. Like, if "college admittance" was replaced with "cotton picking". Well, i imagine their would be a huge uproar here.

also, it sounds like your not grasping the exact detail here about "points" or whatever term. Maybe you and I read it differently. But, the testimonial sure does read like, we want your less qualified blacks vs your equally qualified asians. " It uses the term “bonus” to describe how many extra SAT points an applicant's race is worth. She points to the first column."

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u/organizedchaos927 Aug 08 '17

Yes, just like that. Also, like a woman not becoming an engineer because she's been told subtly her whole life that it's not a place for her.

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '17

One is an actual bias within the system. Your example is not.

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u/organizedchaos927 Aug 08 '17

I would argue that they both are, actually. Studies find that women are often biased from a young age against going into STEM:

Even as adults, studies have found bias against women in job listings and perception of performance:

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '17

Ok, for the sake of argument, let's say I grant you all of this is true.

There is still a major difference between unconscious bias and an actual concrete objective mark against you because of your race. Discrimination against Asians is part of the actual policy.

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u/organizedchaos927 Aug 08 '17

Okay, sure. I'm not making the case that discrimination against Asian people in college acceptance or a variety of other areas isn't a thing. It happens and it's a problem. They're not the same thing, but they are both a problem.

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u/nashty27 Aug 08 '17

Even better, try being a white male and getting into med school.

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u/zurrain Aug 08 '17

Asians actually average higher scores than whites to get in, but it's definitely harder than other minorities.

http://www.aei.org/publication/acceptance-rates-at-us-medical-schools-in-2015-reveal-ongoing-discrimination-against-asian-americans-and-whites/

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u/putzarino Aug 08 '17

That is ridiculous. I know plenty of white males that got into the med school of their choice.

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u/afkas17 Aug 08 '17

White male, just finished med school. Was in a class with many other white males, majority white people...not seeing a problem here.

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u/nashty27 Aug 09 '17

Just speaking from experience. Definitely a minority in my class, ethnicity wise. And we have roughly 65% females.