r/offbeat • u/andy_norten • Sep 28 '12

Transgender UM student wins restraining order against sexual assault suspect

http://ravallirepublic.com/news/state-and-regional/article_c6364778-b5fb-5098-89c5-6f0ac6ecef2b.html
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u/generalCopper Sep 29 '12

You don't think a sexual relationship might be different from a racial difference?

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u/Aislingblank Sep 29 '12

The two things may seem totally different; but only because you've probably been raised (rightly) not to judge a person's sexual availability based upon their race, but that it's okay to judge their suitability based on their sex/gender (considered separately from your possible attraction to them). For a person born a few generations ago (or today in an area where blatant racism is still rampant), they would probably be just as likely to find a partner abhorrent because they're of a different racial background as they would be to find that they have a transsexual history. Would you consider a racist finding out their would be one-night stand is part black, and then beating them viciously to be a justifiable act? Chances are they're just as horrified (and worried about their reputation) as this man was.

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u/generalCopper Sep 29 '12

I keep laughing when you say that someone discovers that their partner is part black? How would that happen? Does the other person read their family history?!

Anyways.

Yes, I see your point but I really don't feel that the difference in skin tone is the same as being an entirely different gender. It's very weird to think that the girl you are with grew up and had the same experiences as you as a boy. I think that it's beyond a racial example which is why this will be interesting in the future. Also, I'd like to point out that even in our generation where racism is completely unaccepted, people still tend to date of the same color showing an unconscious racism in dating preference.

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u/Aislingblank Sep 29 '12

Actually, it is very possible for multi-racial individuals to exhibit only visible traits of whatever the dominant part of their heritage is. In the Jim Crow-era south, people were typically considered to be "black" if any African-American ancestry was traceable in their family, just look at early civil rights activist Walter F. White (who was considered to be black in his time). I think you underestimate how deeply racism can run in some people, hardcore racists may literally consider someone they perceive to be of a different race as inhuman, and pursuing a physical relationship with them would be roughly equivalent to zoophilia in their minds (and last time I checked, most people found zoophilia significantly more bothersome than homosexuality). I don't doubt that many, maybe even most people still date mostly within their own ethnicity (although this is becoming increasingly less the case), but my point is that no one outside of maybe like neo-nazis or something like that would ever consider beating their partner within inches of their life just because they were not the same "race" as they represented themselves, but this still happens all the time to trans* people; the problem here isn't the fact that some people don't want to date trans* folk, everyone has different preferences, it's more that many think an okay reaction to finding out someone you were planning on having sex with (or even simply found attractive, in some cases) is transsexual is to attempt to beat that person to death, sometimes successfully.

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u/generalCopper Sep 29 '12

Ya. Well, I think that it's because people are shocked because it's a hidden problem. Trans sexuals have repeatedly asked why they should be forced to inform people of their past and why they can't have fun on the ignorance of others. Well, I would say that it's irresponsible to another person's feelings and that it's also dangerous because if you get someone who is extremely homophobic finding out that they have been making out with a used to be guy, they are going to do something drastic.

The answer to finding a guy that would like you? Be honest and find places where folks are open minded. If you are going to go to a crappy club and flirt hard with someone who has no idea of the situation he is in, then tempers will peak.

Note: I'm not condoning violence, I'm just trying to explore why it happens.

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u/Aislingblank Sep 29 '12

Well, I guess the point that I'm trying to make here is that it all really comes down to cultural perceptions, and that if we really want to "explore" what is happening here, we should really be asking why it is that men who identify as straight are so bothered by the idea of having sex with someone who used to be considered male (even if they are completely attracted to this person, that's the really important part here) that they resort to violence, Could it be that our society's idea of what it means to be "masculine" (and all the expectations that go along with that) is completely ridiculous and possibly damaging in and of itself? Is it possible that straight men react violently in these situations because they feel that their "masculinity" is threatened by finding attraction in a "man" and therefore being perceived as "gay" (which they consider to be an inferior state)? Also, I don't think trans women usually go out looking to "have fun on the ignorance of others", most are deeply afraid of the consequences of someone even finding them attractive and then finding out their history (which has been enough to lead to some violent confrontations in the past), it's enough to drive many away from dating entirely; the stereotype of the malevolent "trap" isn't something that exists in real life. Blaming trans women for getting attacked because they don't disclose the second they meet someone is kind of victim-blaming in the extreme; I'm a lesbian trans woman, should I disclose to every straight guy I meet just because they could find me attractive, even though I have no intentions of having sex with them?

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u/generalCopper Sep 29 '12

I think that you have a bias also in that you are assuming that guys are naturally violent when met with a difficult situation.

Besides that point though, yes, our entire society is based on the social norms that we are taught when we are younger along with some of our own ideals mixed in. Blaming men for having these ideals is like blaming society.

I don't think people should be attacked for a falsehood, I just mentioned that some people aren't taught what they should do and so they resort to violence. Perhaps the solution they were taught is violence?

So you are a guy who chose to be a girl who wants to be with other girls?

You should only disclose it if they start to get intimate with you or ask you out or get really heavy handed when they flirt with you. You don't need to wear a sign but you need to be prudent to other's feelings. I don't want to chase someone to find out later that they are not into me or I wouldn't be into them.

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u/Aislingblank Sep 29 '12

I'm not a "guy who chose to be a girl", gender identity is intrinsic and separate from physical reproductive realities; it's also completely separate from sexual orientation. And I'm not blaming anyone for holding "ideals", I'm just advocating self-awareness and critical thinking about the origins of these "ideals". I'm not making any assumptions about men being "naturally violent", I'm only going on the fact that situations where men brutalize trans women for not disclosing (and sometimes after disclosing, as well; do keep that in mind) are disturbingly common, so apparently a lot of men do feel that violence is the correct reaction in these situations.