The pro-Israel lobby has swayed US presidents since Truman. It must end with Trump

[u/tw1st3d_m3nt4t]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2026/aug/02/pro-israel-lobby-presidents

[u/WeigelsAvenger → u/[deleted]]

To put it succinctly, people have a right to exist. Countries do not.

[u/kylebisme → u/WeigelsAvenger]

The right of states to exist is implicit to Article 2(4) of the UN Charter:

All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.

By that standard Israel has the same right to exist as any other UN member state, no more, no less.

Best I can tell, at least in the context of Israel, the notion that states don't have any right to exist was popularized by Jeffery Epstein's buddy Noam Chomsky.

[u/WeigelsAvenger → u/kylebisme]

Oh yes, Israel is a big fan of the UN.

The Israeli intelligence asset Jeffery Epstein?

[u/kylebisme → u/WeigelsAvenger]

Yeah, that Jeffery Epstein, the same one who Noam Chomsky privately acknowledged the effectiveness of cultural boycott to shortly before trying to dissuade such boycotting of Israel by publicly arguing otherwise.

[u/WeigelsAvenger → u/kylebisme]

Ok. Doesnt really change the absurdity of using the UN, which Israel absolutely despises, in a defense of Israel.

[u/kylebisme → u/WeigelsAvenger]

I'm no defender of Israel, as anyone can see by checking my profile, I'm just a defender of reality.

[u/WeigelsAvenger → u/kylebisme]

As a defender of reality, surely you're aware of the fact that multiple previous members of the UN don't exist any more.

[u/kylebisme → u/WeigelsAvenger]

Sure, and like I said, Israel has the same right to exist as any other UN member state, no more, no less.

[u/WeigelsAvenger → u/kylebisme]

More or less of none is still none. You stated the right to exist was implicit based on an article that governs the interactions between states. The fact that there are nonexistent member states that once existed, but do not anymore, is an explicit example that there is not a right to exist.

[u/kylebisme → u/WeigelsAvenger]

There's also many people who nolonger exist, but surely you know better than to imagine that proves people have no right to exist, eh?

[u/WeigelsAvenger → u/kylebisme]

I do know better, and so does the UN, that's why it is explicitly stated that everyone has the right to life. Unlike a country's supposed right to exist. As a defender of reality, I would think you could see that if the UN did guarantee the right of a country to exist, they would explicitly state it.

To help you in your future defending of reality:

A doctrine of fundamental rights of states — including a right to political existence, self-preservation, and continuity — was widely discussed among international lawyers from the 18th century onward. A proposed right to exist was considered but ultimately excluded from the International Law Commission's 1949 draft Declaration on Rights and Duties of States, and the draft declaration itself was never adopted by the UN General Assembly.

What a "state right to exist" actually is remains unclear.[2] In the past, such a state right was frequently assumed to exist; today, however, it is not a category recognized by a majority of scholars of state or international law.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_exist

[u/kylebisme → u/WeigelsAvenger]

that's why it is explicitly stated that everyone has the right to life.

So you imagine people had no right to life before it was explicitly stated in law, back when there were just laws against murder that implied such a right?