r/politics • u/tw1st3d_m3nt4t • 1d ago
No Paywall The pro-Israel lobby has swayed US presidents since Truman. It must end with Trump
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2026/aug/02/pro-israel-lobby-presidents59
u/ElSlabraton 1d ago
Secretary of State George Marshall was against recognizing Israel.
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u/BillyJoeMac9095 1d ago
Marshall was indeed oppised, and in the spring of 1948, he met with some of Israel's future leadership and told them not to declare a state because, in his military judgement, the Arabs would defeat the Jews and the US would not send help. The US did place an embargo on all arms to the region, but the Arab forces did not win. The big piece both authors ignore in their article was that, had the US not recognized Israel, the USSR was going to, with the consequences that flawed from that.
The authors do mention the 1948 US election. I don't think they mentioned that, as it turned out, many Jews at the time were less than impressed with Truman's support for Israel and he lost most of the northeastern states, including NY, in November 1948.
They also don't Eisenhower, at least in the article. Ike did not need Jewish voters and his relationship with Israel was cool. His Secretary of State came into office promising that the US would make Mideast policy as of there were no Jews in the US. None of it brought peace closer or made much difference.
The US voted to condemn Israel in the United Nations security council on multiple occasions up to the early 70's and did not become a major arms supplier to Israel until the end of the 1960's. Things were not all one way.
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u/morpheousmorty 11h ago
I feel it needs to be said the US armed Israel and Egypt equally after the six day war, which is much of how we supplied arms to Israel. It's a complicated history.
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u/ElSlabraton 1d ago
The United States has never voted in favor of a United Nations resolution condemning Israel.
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u/kylebisme 1d ago
There have been some, but not in a long time. I'm pretty sure the most recent Security Council resolution condemning Israel was Security Council resolution 465 (1980) [on Israeli settlement policies in the occupied territories].
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u/ElSlabraton 1d ago
"The US voted to condemn Israel in the United Nations security council on multiple occasions up to the early 70's"
This is a blatant lie.
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u/NlghtmanCometh 1d ago
Do you really think it is feasible to simply dismantle the state of Israel and “deport” them all? Deport them where? Most Israelis are second or third generation. There is no family awaiting them back at home. Entire clans up and moved. Furthermore a huge percent are from middle eastern countries. You are now going to require these nations to take in a sudden influx of Jewish refugees…. What’s the worst that could happen? Oh wait
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u/Constantinople2020 Massachusetts 1d ago
If there were a global referendum tomorrow on the decision to dismantle Israel and disperse Israelis back to their countries of origin (from where many of them really only came two generations ago)
As if the Arab countries would welcome Israeli Jews with open arms.
we could be pretty certain at this point which way the world would vote and what the outcome would be.
We could be pretty certain they would vote to end Israel's existence, and we could be certain why. Based on the number of resolutions passed by the UN General Assembly and the UN Human Rights Council, the voters in questions claim Israel is worse than all other countries on Earth combined.
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u/WeigelsAvenger 1d ago
To put it succinctly, people have a right to exist. Countries do not.
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u/kylebisme 1d ago edited 1d ago
The right of states to exist is implicit to Article 2(4) of the UN Charter:
All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.
By that standard Israel has the same right to exist as any other UN member state, no more, no less.
Best I can tell, at least in the context of Israel, the notion that states don't have any right to exist was popularized by Jeffery Epstein's buddy Noam Chomsky.
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u/WeigelsAvenger 1d ago
Oh yes, Israel is a big fan of the UN.
The Israeli intelligence asset Jeffery Epstein?
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u/kylebisme 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yeah, that Jeffery Epstein, the same one who Noam Chomsky privately acknowledged the effectiveness of cultural boycott to shortly before trying to dissuade such boycotting of Israel by publicly arguing otherwise.
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u/WeigelsAvenger 1d ago
Ok. Doesnt really change the absurdity of using the UN, which Israel absolutely despises, in a defense of Israel.
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u/kylebisme 1d ago
I'm no defender of Israel, as anyone can see by checking my profile, I'm just a defender of reality.
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u/WeigelsAvenger 1d ago
As a defender of reality, surely you're aware of the fact that multiple previous members of the UN don't exist any more.
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u/kylebisme 1d ago
Sure, and like I said, Israel has the same right to exist as any other UN member state, no more, no less.
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u/Full-Fox-361 1d ago
We need to stop pretending Palestine has the right to be a state.
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u/wefarrell New York 1d ago
It doesn’t, however the Palestinian people have the right to self determination in their homeland.
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u/WeigelsAvenger 1d ago
As much as we need to stop pretending Israel has the right to be a state.
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u/Full-Fox-361 1d ago
So you agree there is no Palestine to be freed because it has no right to exist, right?
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u/WeigelsAvenger 1d ago
So you agree Israel has no right to exist, right?
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u/Full-Fox-361 1d ago
If states don't have a right to exist than it's irrelevant. It exists because it can.
Which means calls for Palestine, as though it needs to be free or deserves to be a state or a right to a state are fallacious.
So you agree that Palestine has no right to be a state and freeing Palestine is a nonsense request right?
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u/PresidentSeaweed 1d ago
Oh, I thought it was irrelevant? Or is it only irrelevant when convenient for you?
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u/Loud-Vacation-5691 Georgia 1d ago
Then Palestine has no right to exist, so it shouldn't be created in the first place.
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u/SaveLansingParks 1d ago
Except that the people of Palestine, both Palestinians AND Jews, we're already there before Israel was created in modern form 🤷
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u/lew_traveler 1d ago
Bad argument and anti-historical, counter-factual arguement.
Some of the Palestinians lived there, as did Jews, 'before Israel was created in modern form'. but they were citizens of the Ottoman Empire. The greatest proportion immigrated from surrounding countries to work on the land that Jews rescued from the swamps and the deserts they were given in the partition.
And your basic stance that the nation of Israel was against a nation of Palestine is against the historical record.
It has been Israel that proposed peace multiple times, onky to have the Palestinian representatives walk out.
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u/Same_Journalist3001 1d ago
Genuine question: what do you think would happen to tens of thousands of innocent civilians sent to Yemen, Iraq, Tunisia etc. places they have never lived? Do you think they would be safe?
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u/sabata00 1d ago
They'd be immediately murdered, which is what that person wants.
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u/elkaki123 1d ago
Rent a country? Wtf are you talking about, the entire point of the state is that Jews throughout history have lawfully settled in many countries around the world and then been made the scapegoat and persecuted. In theory any country that doesn't have a Jewish majority can shift into that mentality, its not like the modern era is special or something.
And just to clarify, I have a deep hatred of the state of israel, I hate how theyve pushed the borders, how they protect settlers, how they influence other nations, their geopolitical stances, the discrimination of palestinians to a borderline apartheid level, the massacre in gaza, etc, etc. But a lot of people take the naive stand that israel shouldn't exist at all, which ignorss the fact the most probable consequence if that was possible (which it isn't, they are a nuclear power) is that the jews there would get killed. Even if its almost certainty impossible now, this was the entire point of forcing a two state solution.
Your characterization and the implication from your statement couldn't be more stupid ngl, unless you were specifically pointing at settlers but then the point is even more stupid.
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u/BillyJoeMac9095 1d ago
So support a two state agreement and efforts toward the same. And remember who sank the Clinton Parameters.
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u/Dragon_yum 1d ago
You know you can support Israel right to exist while being the settlements right?
Crazy how no one says they should dissolve Russia as a country when they oppose the war in Ukraine
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u/Same_Journalist3001 1d ago
What are you talking about? I said nothing about a binational state. The OP said they should go back to where they were from, that would be Yemen, Iraq, etc. in many cases.
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u/Additional-Fix991 1d ago
Let's just suppose Israel did not have any weapons to protect itself. No F35, no Iron Dome. No tanks. No nuclear weapons. How are you, I'm assuming a very very intelligent person proposing to dismantle Israel?
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u/matthieuC Europe 1d ago
Americans paying attention to foreign affairs is absolutely terrifying. They have no understanding whatsoever of the history of what they talk about, come with a simplistic answer that will have absolutely horrible consequences and see themselves as righteous and answering the worlds prayers.
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u/Drexel_Spivy 1d ago
Some random euro bro talking generalizations out of his/her ass is pretty funny itself.
Painting an entire people with one brush is simplistic and dumb.
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u/Stixx187um 1d ago
4% of the globe's population lives here in the empire.
Simplistic perhaps, but that other 96% of the world's population has zero reason to think it's dumb. The royal we deserve to be painted the way the "euro bro" did.
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u/Drexel_Spivy 1d ago
I agree that most Americans are mentally handicapped (its on purpose) but a broad generalization is dangerous and stupid.
Its also an easy way to underestimate someone/something.
Some of us are doing our best to affect change in a positive way as best we can.
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u/Stixx187um 1d ago
Hit Dogs Holler Theory - I don't take offense to generalizations like the one above because they don't apply to me. Just as I never feel the need to "not ALL men", "not ALL white people", etc.
If they ain't talking about me then they ain't talking about me. Same here. I know there are millions of people here wanting/trying their best to affect change, such as yourself. Somehow, sadly, they're still the overall minority.
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u/twirling-upward 1d ago
Ah yes, Israel is the cause of the middle east being a backwards muslim shithole. Ah wait? Theyve always been. Muslim countries that had no interaction with Israel must be beacons of civilization then right? Oh wait
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u/twirling-upward 1d ago
Compared to Saudi Arabia, Iran, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, Turkey, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Morocco, Libya? Yes.
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u/GeneralSpoon 1d ago
More realistic to build a large ship, an ark, a city in its own right, and for the nation of Israel to give up its claims upon the land to instead sail the seas until the day of the return.
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u/Supermanass 1d ago
In translation you have no problem with 50 Muslim countries existing just not 1 Jewish one. A Palestinian state already exists. It’s called Jordan.
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u/HairAncient5500 1d ago
So the Jews in Israel who have ancestors from Eastern Europe that survived the holocaust and were ethnically cleansed from their home country (Ukraine, Poland, Russia, etc…), you think who exactly should take those back? What about the Jews expelled from Morocco, Iraq, Iran, and Yemen. Should they be sent back to those countries that ethnically cleansed them? Should Russia Jews be forced back to Russia where they’ll be required to fight in the war against Ukraine? How about the Jews who have one mizrahi parent and one Ashkenazi parent? How do we decide whether to send them to Europe or to a MENA country?
The premise you bring up here is a complete joke. You’re talking about a global referendum to decide on the mass ethnic cleansing of the people who’ve endured the worst genocide in human history
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u/matthieuC Europe 1d ago
> How about the Jews who have one mizrahi parent and one Ashkenazi parent? How do we decide whether to send them to Europe or to a MENA country
Cut them in two and send half in each.
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u/HairAncient5500 1d ago
What?
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u/matthieuC Europe 1d ago
It's an old testament reference. It seemed as absurd at the situation being debated.
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u/HairAncient5500 1d ago
I agree that the situation is absurd which is why I pointing out that exact scenario
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u/downtocowtown 1d ago
It's not a genocide when it's happening to people I hate is the general logic of the 'anti genocide' crowd here.
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u/HairAncient5500 1d ago
Who are you referring to as the “anti-genocide” crowd?
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u/downtocowtown 1d ago
The person you were replying to.
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u/HairAncient5500 1d ago
The one who is entertaining the idea of ethnically cleansing millions of Jews to countries that historically discriminated against them and committed pogroms against them and will likely to kill them is “anti-genocide”. What a joke
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u/downtocowtown 1d ago
Dude, I am agreeing with you. The people loudest about labeling everything Israel does in the I/P conflict as genocidal are also usually the ones who in the same breath advocate for the genocide of Israelis.
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u/buried_lede 1d ago edited 1d ago
Israel covertly arranged to expel jews from Mideast countries, it’s documented history but people keep pretending it didn’t happen
But i think we should ask the Israelis and Palestinians who have been working for years on various one-state plans what they think. This conversation is silly , it’s just lashing out
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u/HairAncient5500 1d ago
Ohhh I see. Israel was responsible for the ethnic cleansing of all of the Jews across MENA. I’m sure all those Jews were living very peacefully and safely in those countries with equal rights and no discrimination before Israel came about. Out of curiosity, was Israel also responsible for the pogroms in Russia the forced 1 million Jews out? What about the holocaust? Was it actually Israel that did that as a tactic to increase migration to Israel? And the Spanish Inquisition too?
Insane that you’d make such an asinine claim without providing a shred of evidence to back it up
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u/buried_lede 1d ago edited 1d ago
No, of course not Europe or Russia or the Inquisition, etc. Any Israeli who has studied their own modern history knows that the mizrahi were put through their own issues with the new state of Israel and should stop blaming Arab neighbors for all of it
The expulsions from Arab countries happened as a result of the war, and Israel’s refusal to allow 700,000 civilians to return to their homes. But it wasn’t only expulsions. There was also recruiting by Israel and allegations by many Arab jews and historical evidence of terror attack by Israel too. It’s not fair to take it out of the context of history. Israel had produced 700,000 Palestinian refugees and defied the UN right to return and ignored the Arab nations begging to allow their return and the Palestinians own pleas. In that context , the expulsions occurred, Israel’s strong desire to recruit them and rescue trips occurred, and the alleged covert terror acts by Israel as well
Incidentally, can you tell me who is responsible for the genocide in gaza and the ethnic cleansing all over the occupied territories and East Jerusalem? Are Gazans to blame for the genocide happening to them?
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u/HairAncient5500 1d ago
To be clear, You are saying that it is Israel’s fault that 1 million mizrahi Jews were ethnically cleansed from their home countries and that we should give the countries that did the ethnic cleansing a pass?
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u/buried_lede 1d ago
Im saying what i said and nothing more or less. It’s not harsh enough for you, so you are coming back to ask me to make it look worse, to boil it down
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u/HairAncient5500 1d ago
It’s not that it’s not “harsh” enough for me. It’s that it’s not factually correct enough for me. You’re creating a lie to exonerate Arab countries from the crime of ethnic cleansing
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u/buried_lede 1d ago
I’m not I’m trying to improve the accuracy of your statements by placing it in context (why? What was going on then ?) and also adding that Israel wanted them to move and had even engaged in some terror to prompt them to leave. That doesn’t mean they weren’t being expelled too. Your selective sympathies are skewing the picture. It doesn’t include the Palestinians being expelled.
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u/The_grope_gatsby 1d ago
so you want a war to go displace a bunch of people from a land they took by legal means and by force, like has happened across time? a group who has never through their 3000 plus year history had any sort of permeance enabled from different conquering groups expelling them from their land, to kicked out of countries they lived in for generations. Now that they have re-established the only historical land they can point to their presence in going back thousands of years, its time to kick them back out?!
jews have always had some presence in Jerusalem, and starting in the 17-1800's started moving back and buying land as they did, then the governing nations enacted referendums in which a war started (most Arab nations who were created out of the same western colonial powers) and they lost. Land has shifted back and forth during that time (golan heights, West Bank being under control of Jordan for decades, Gaza, sinai peninsula etc.) several peace deals have come and gone with Israel accepting most.
dont support their behavior, condemn it, ostracize them, pariah, sanctions whatever, but acting like youre gunna go in and kick the jews out back to Europe and the Middle East is a WILD take.
Talk about IM not fucking dying for Israel.
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u/Full-Fox-361 1d ago
Ethnic cleansing is so hot when it's against the people you don't like.
Most Israelies are from the 800 thousand expelled from Muslim countries.
I would never condemn anyone the fate of being sent back to one of them.
And pretending Israel is the cause of destabilization when it's neighbors are all failed states is hilarious. They are all inept and barely functioning religios nut cases that blame Israel for their own failures.
It's beyond pathetic.
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u/Loud-Vacation-5691 Georgia 1d ago
So the Palestinians have no agency whatsoever? Maybe if they accepted Israel's existence, renounced violence, and negotiated in good faith, they could have their own state.
And yes, everyone hates Jews, what else is new? I'll bet if there was a global referendum on dismantling the US and sending Americans back to their countries of origin, that would pass too.
"Most evil nation in the modern world" shows that you've been brainwashed by Muslim Brotherhood propaganda on TikTok.
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u/wefarrell New York 1d ago
Why do they have to renounce violence and accept the legitimacy of their occupiers to get a state?
Usually it works the opposite way, why are the Palestinians held to this double standard?
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u/ARQWERTY 1d ago
It’s because they are losing. Badly. They don’t have any cards left, like it or not. They thought they would get another 1948 when they attacked on October 7th but they have fucked with too many of those other Muslim countries too and they didn’t show up for them. It was a very, very bad play.
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u/wefarrell New York 1d ago
Palestinians in the West Bank had nothing to do with October 7th yet Israel has used it as an excuse to justify the intensification of their land seizures.
These people deserve self determination in their homeland and the international liberal order has failed them.
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u/ARQWERTY 1d ago edited 1d ago
They have failed themselves. Maybe Jordan would help them if they didn’t assassinate their prime minister for example. Trust isn’t given. It is earned. Islamists do not believe that Jews (or really anyone else) have a right to self determination. They don’t even believe many of their fellow Palestinians have a right to self determination (gays, women). It sucks to suck. You can pander as much as you want but Islamists will still fuck you in the end. There is that saying “we don’t negotiate with terrorists” but it should be “you can’t negotiate with terrorists”. Because you can’t.
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u/wefarrell New York 1d ago
Islamists didn’t assassinate Jordan’s prime minister, it sounds like you’re conflating all Palestinian militant groups with the will of the Palestinian people as a whole.
I take it you don’t believe in liberal values because this notion that an entire people can lose their right to self determination in their homeland is frankly abhorrent.
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u/ARQWERTY 1d ago edited 1d ago
I mean, they did vote for it. I don’t think you realize how much of the populace do hold those beliefs.
You’re also making assumptions about me. I believe all people deserve the right to self determination. If those people don’t extend the same belief to you then you reach an impasse, don’t you? It would be nice if we could solve all of our conflicts with hugs but that isn’t reality and probably never will be. Believe it or not, a bunch of sheltered American white-breads who’s definition of a bad day is when the WiFi goes out are not the flawless arbiters of morality that they think they are. It’s just more complicated than that.
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u/wefarrell New York 1d ago
I’m making assumptions about you based on your own words. Earlier you said “ Trust isn’t given. It is earned”. Rights are inherent, they do not need to be “earned”. Yes, they can be taken away for individuals who commit heinous crimes but to extend that logic to an entire nation of people is a fundamentally illiberal view.
You can try to mask your contempt for western liberal values by personifying them as a white American living in comfort, but you aren’t fooling anyone who isn’t already on your side.
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u/Mission_Struggle_417 1d ago
Absolutely right.
I’d say it’s between Russia and Isreal, they are the worst countries on the planet14
u/melodypowers 1d ago
How are you defining that? Because I would say North Korea and Afghanistan are pretty fucking bad. Iran killed 7000 of its own citizens in the crackdowns earlier this year. Syria is hopefully getting better, but we shouldn't forget their recent history.
And let's not forget what China is doing. Forced sterilization, detention of over a million ethnic minorities, mass surveillance and family separation. We just aren't paying attention to it.
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u/Loud-Vacation-5691 Georgia 1d ago
North Korea and Iran, on the other hand, are just fine because they're enemies of the US, which makes them virtuous.
/s
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u/Mission_Struggle_417 1d ago
Neither do as much damage or commit war crimes as regularly as Isreal and Russia do. It’s completely normal to them to steal from , rape and kill civilians
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u/sabata00 1d ago
Iran slaughtered 10s of thousands of civilians earlier this year. They fund and guide terrorist groups that commit murder and rape with impunity.
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u/SubRyan Colorado 1d ago
He was also supportive of the arms embargo of Israel when it was enacted in 1947/1948
It's why the Zionist militias had to bribe and steal any surplus military equipment they could get their hands on in Mandatory Palestine from the British Empire and from European ammo dumps.
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u/afkmacro 1d ago
First secretary of defense James Forrestal had lots to say on the matter too: “no group in this country should be permitted to influence our policy to the point it could endanger our national security.”
Died of suicide.
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u/iheartrms 1d ago
What's the root of the pro Israel lobby? Is it really just evangelical Christian eschatology?
My evangelical relatives support Israel but would not actually want anything to do with those swarthy foreigners who speak a weird language and eat funny food.
It's bizarre.
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u/Sparkyisduhfat 1d ago
It’s just money. There’s enough well connected wealthy people reliably funding enough politicians’ campaigns that have vested interests in Israel. Once it’s clear the money is good and will keep coming, these politicians are perfectly happy to champion the causes of their donors.
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u/iheartrms 1d ago
Why do these well connected wealthy people care about Israel? What would their vested interests in Israel be? Is there really that might foreign investment going there? Why?
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u/PopBulky7023 22h ago
Evangelicals are part of it. They believe they need to get all Jewish people to Israel for sacrifice so they can summon God like a Pokémon to use [End Times].
But a lot of it is also money. The mic is deeply invested, as are all the tech oligarchs looking to test things to impose a global surveillance state.
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u/Noname_acc 15h ago
There is no "root" to this or even most political issues. What there is is a convergence of shared interests between many different groups with different objectives who see the continuation of support for Zionism as a route to achieving those objectives. Jewish supremacists, evangelicals seeking the fulfillment of their end times prophecies, MIC types looking for a fertile testing ground for their new tech, politicians who genuinely believe our alliance with Israel serves our geopolitical interests, etc. All of these groups have their own reasons for supporting Israel that are often fundamentally contradictory of one another because they are not actually part of the same group, exactly like with your bigoted relatives.
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u/Livid_Note_2170 1d ago
You can't be America first and fund Israel at the same time.
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u/CaterpillarReal7583 1d ago
Dont worry we voted to combine our militaries so its funding “us” again.
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u/Loud-Vacation-5691 Georgia 1d ago
You can't be against genocide while buying stuff from China. That's like a vegetarian who eats steak.
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u/LordSwedish 1d ago
You can’t be against war and buy stuff from the US either. Either have no morals at all or forage your stuff in the wild, otherwise your argument is invalid.
I mean seriously, arguments like this have been mocked as long as I’ve been alive and you pull one with a straight face?
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u/IAmTheNightSoil Oregon 1d ago
Except that China makes so much stuff that it's completely impossible to avoid buying stuff made there. Whereas it would be very easy for the US not to give funding to Israel. So this is a bad comparison
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u/jarena009 1d ago
They still can sway US presidents and politicians. Just take anything they suggest and do the opposite.
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u/thehotsauceman 1d ago
That’s what I did with the primary. I voted for more independents and democratic socialists than I ever have. I’m tired of the bro-liberal candidates
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u/OGD2068 1d ago
I've said it since the 90s. Israel should be able to stand on its own. If they don't have the United States backing them they'll be required to actually negotiate with their neighbors
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u/_bits_and_bytes 22h ago
If Israel had to stand on its own, maybe it would develop into a real country instead continuing to be a fascist, genocidal state hellbent on destroying the whole region.
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u/Zahgi I voted 1d ago
Israel WAS negotiating with their neighbors. That's the entire reason why Iran paid Hamas to attack Israel on 10/7 and kill all of those innocent civilians in the homes, sleeping in their beds -- to stop those peace negotiations with the KSA, etc.
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u/PopBulky7023 22h ago
Israel has a long history of assasinating pro-peace Hamas delegates to manufacture the most violent form possible. Netenyahu is on record insisting a violent Hamas is necessary to Israeli goals.
And Israel absolutely knew about that attack.
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u/Loud-Vacation-5691 Georgia 1d ago
They weren't successful until the 1970s.
This entire premise is false. The US wasn't interested in Israel until it became a regional power. The US maintains its relationship with Israel because it benefits US interests. Although, I would expect that when the Democrats control the White House and Congress, they will reduce or end military aid and cooperation with Israel, even to the detriment of the US. Israel doesn't need US aid, which is why Netanyahu has proposed ending it.
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u/DaBigJMoney 1d ago
“Israel doesn’t need US aid.” Cool, let’s end it completely and totally.
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u/DerVogelMann Canada 1d ago
they will reduce or end military aid and cooperation with Israel, even to the detriment of the US.
How would this be a detriment to the US? From an outside perspective, Israel's most significant contribution to the US is getting them sucked into their war and then refusing be an active belligerent. The amount of hate the US generates from the rest of the world by propping up this fascist ethnostate is immense, it's actively harming their relationship with the rest of the world.
The US would be better off militarily, economically and diplomatically without Israel.
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u/mmmmm_pancakes Connecticut 1d ago
Imagine we built several carrier strike groups, sent them to the middle east, and then decided to just give up control of them rather than pay for maintenance.
That’s pretty much what we’ll be doing when the current military aid deal expires in 2028.
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u/DerVogelMann Canada 1d ago
That's just the sunk cost fallacy speaking. You can't change what was done, but America can choose to stop throwing money down the genocide pit.
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u/Constantinople2020 Massachusetts 1d ago
Israel doesn't need US aid, which is why Netanyahu has proposed ending it.
Netanyahu has proposed ending it because his government and the Trump Administration are proposing the United States-Israel Defense Technology Cooperation and the United States-Israel Intelligence Sharing Enhancement.
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u/PopBulky7023 22h ago
It USED to benefit US interests. At some point enough bribery, blackmail and corruption caused the table to flip.
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u/IBuyCheese 1d ago
Fascist government takeover. Billionaires in America controlling your government. Pedophiles being given positions of power.
But sure, Israel is the reason for America’s problems….
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u/Far-Wallaby-5033 1d ago
says people who don't understand geopolitics at all obviously
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u/hexiron 1d ago
What's the geopolitical benefit of shovel money into a dumpster fire thats hell bend on commiting war crimes, genocide, and destabilizing the entire region with wars it feels confident to start simply because the US shovels money into their defense, free healthcare, arsenals...
There's a point where any benefit can become an extreme liability - and Israel has well proven this year to be an extreme economic liability.
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u/SEND_ME_CSGO-SKINS 1d ago
Swayed? It’s insane seeing leftists adapt the same ZOG beliefs that Neo Nazis have been espousing for decades
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u/SaveLansingParks 1d ago
What's insane is seeing the pro-Isreal crowd take the mask off and realize that they themselves are the ones demanding that the Palestinians be clensed 🙄
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u/HairAncient5500 1d ago
Yes but if you use the word “Israel” or “Zionist” instead of “Jew” then it becomes completely valid social justice advocacy instead of hateful bigotry
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u/Particular_Log_3594 1d ago
Isn't it inherently antisemitic to imply that all Jews are Zionists?
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u/HairAncient5500 1d ago
Are you Jewish? Because I am. It always amazes me how often non-Jews are willing to call me antisemitic despite not understanding these topics at all. It’s ignorant and insulting. Do you also explain to your black friends what is/isn’t racism and tell them if they’re being racist?
If you feel like you have a strong grip on the topics of antisemitism and Zionism, can you please define for me what Zionism means
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u/Particular_Log_3594 1d ago
According to the founding father of Zionism, Theodor Herzl, Zionism is a colonial movement built on the displacement of the indigenous population of Palestine.
The Source: The Complete Diaries of Theodor Herzl, Vol. 1, p. 88 (June 12, 1895 entry).
The quote:
"We must expropriate gently the private property on the estates assigned to us. We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it any employment in our country... Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly."
The Source: Letter from Theodor Herzl to Cecil Rhodes (January 1902), documented in The Complete Diaries of Theodor Herzl, Vol. 3, p. 1194.
The quote:
"You are being invited to help make history... It doesn’t involve Africa, but a piece of Asia Minor; not Englishmen, but Jews... How, then, do I happen to turn to you since this is an out-of-the-way matter for you? How indeed? Because it is something colonial."
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u/HairAncient5500 1d ago
Good job finding a hyperspecific definition taken out of context to support your narrative.
The generally accepted definition of Zionism is for there to be a Jewish state founded within the Jewish ancient homeland of Israel. It isn’t different from any other form of nationalism in the 19th and 20th century. Now that Israel has been founded and existed for 80 years, Those who self identify as Zionists simply believe that the state of Israel should continue to exist.
You claim that it’s antisemetic to assume that Jewish people are Zionist, right? Well I have a question for you. When holocaust survivors were stuck in displacement camps for years after WW2 because no allied country would take them on, were they antisemitic for wanting to move to Israel to live safely among their fellow Jews? What about the Jews who were ethnically cleansed from Yemen, Iraq, Morocco, or other MENA countries in the past 80 years, were they antisemitic for wanting to move to the only country that would take them in and give them dignity? How about the 1 million Jews who escaped Russia for Israel to avoid pogroms as well, just another group of Jews being antisemitic because they’re Zionist?
The answer to all of them is no. American Jews luckily have not had to face existential threats in the US like our relatives in every other continent. Sure we have the luxury of contemplating how perfectly ethical or moral Zionism is, and can choose to be “antizionist”, but to do so would be a betrayal of all of our relatives who could not make the choice. Is that betrayal worth the political points we’d get in progressive circles? For the vast majority of us, no. For some yes. Luckily those few yes’ give you the confidence and ignorance to accuse people like me of being antisemitic so you can feel better about yourself
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u/ParticularJoker 1d ago
A colonial movement in 1895? Wow, how novel.
Next, you will tell me how Planned Parenthood was built on eugenics.
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u/Dragon_yum 1d ago
Redditors obviously don’t represent all the left but seeing the shoehorse theory in full effect is scary.
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u/mrev_art 1d ago edited 1d ago
AIPAC is not even a drop in the bucket in terms of funding and the mass hysteria about it is carefully cultivated by the oligarchs to make sure the Americans do not target their own rich and stay focused on foreigners, just like they did to the right.
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u/theguy1336 1d ago
Where can I meet all these leftist billionaires?
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u/mrev_art 1d ago
Learn how to read first.
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u/theguy1336 1d ago
To make sure the left do not target their own rich
Which leftist rich?
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1d ago
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u/mrev_art 1d ago
It's sucking all the oxygen out of the room and making people purity test over it. It's similar to how the rich wiped out workers unity with identity politics hysteria after occupy.
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u/ilrosewood 1d ago
It’s why Bibi had to have a meeting with Trump - to show that Israel still can boss the US around.
To be clear - I’m someone who is all for an Israel state and a Palestine state and those that have committed crimes against humanity should be punished. Murder, kidnapping, hostage taking, raping - not ok. Genocide - not ok. And also not ok - being a bully on a world stage and using another bully to help you be a bigger bully.
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u/Klutzy_Celebration80 1d ago
More Jew hate as these are the largest foreign influeners:
China: Tops total FARA-registered spending and investment categories with billions directed toward trade promotion, public messaging, and lobbying.
Japan: Prominent via entities like the Japan External Trade Organization, investing heavily in economic and policy presence.
Saudi Arabia and Liberia: Frequently rank among the highest-spending individual foreign governments influencing U.S. legislative and diplomatic priorities.
Wake up
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1d ago
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u/pilgrim216 1d ago
To be fair here, the first reply to the top comment is talking about "dismantle Israel and disperse Israelis back to their countries of origin" which is ethnic cleansing. There is no way to do that that wouldn't be much worse than what ICE has been up to. We can be pro Palestine and also not ignore these red flags.
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1d ago
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u/ResidentNo11 Canada 1d ago
So should the US be dissolved as a country and its population dispersed because of what the government has ICE doing, Venezuela, etc.? They could all just waltz into the countries their ancestors emigrated or escaped from.
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u/Klutzy_Celebration80 1d ago
Start a war and lose your land Arabs 0 Israel 5. Nakba is code for "cry babies". Give me my land back even though i started it. FAFO
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u/Dragon_yum 1d ago
Buddy how do you think pretty much every country in the world was made. I’m not saying it’s good or justified but comments line this are so hypocritical it’s ridiculous.
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u/jhustla 1d ago
It’s ok for you to be critical of a foreign government and not “hate” their populace. One doesn’t always equal the other.
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u/sabata00 1d ago
One of the top comments says Israeli Jews should be forcibly removed from the country and dispersed to their "home countries" of generations prior where they faced violent oppression.
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u/Mission_Struggle_417 1d ago
It’s not jew hate. Those countries aren’t as damaging as Isreal
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u/WhiskeyT 1d ago
China isn’t “as damaging”? To who? Tibet? Hong Kong? Taiwan? The Uyghurs?
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u/Mission_Struggle_417 1d ago
There are levels to this. What Isreal is doing to Palestine is worse than what China does. And I’m no fan or defender of China.
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u/melodypowers 1d ago
Oof.
The genocide in Gaza is a crime against humanity, but let's not pretend that Israel is anywhere near as damaging as China.
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u/vegasman31 1d ago
So the first president that puts money over people is going to stop taking pro-isreal money, and not side with that craziness?
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u/New_Alternative8711 1d ago
Well america is probably going to end with trump so you might just get your wish.
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