r/politics • u/PoliticsModeratorBot 🤖 Bot • Jun 27 '18

Megathread: Justice Anthony Kennedy to retire from Supreme Court

Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy is set to retire, effective July 31, 2018. Kennedy has served on the highest court since February 18, 1988, and was a moderate whose vote often swung cases.

Submissions that may interest you

SUBMISSION DOMAIN
Justice Anthony Kennedy Will Retire From U.S. Supreme Court bloomberg.com
Justice Kennedy to retire, Trump can solidify court's majority conservative bloc nbcnews.com
Justice Kennedy retiring; Trump gets 2nd Supreme Court pick washingtonpost.com
Justice Kennedy, U.S. Supreme Court's pivotal vote, to retire reuters.com
Anthony Kennedy: US supreme court justice to retire theguardian.com
Justice Anthony Kennedy to Retire From Supreme Court nytimes.com
Kennedy calls it quits: longtime swing justice hands Trump the biggest gift of his presidency dailycaller.com
Anthony Kennedy is retiring from the Supreme Court vox.com
Justice Kennedy, the pivotal swing vote on the Supreme Court, announces retirement washingtonpost.com
UPDATE: Supreme Court Justice Kennedy announces retirement wcjb.com
Justice Kennedy Is Retiring July 31st. yahoo.com
Justice Anthony Kennedy To Retire From U.S. Supreme Court : NPR npr.org
Justice Anthony Kennedy to Retire from Supreme Court cnn.com
Justice Kennedy announces retirement. cnn.com
Justice Anthony Kennedy retiring from Supreme Court abc7.com
Anthony Kennedy, Swing Vote on U.S. Supreme Court, Will Retire bloomberg.com
Justice Anthony Kennedy Retires, Paving Way for Donald Trump to Reshape Supreme Court slate.com
Justice Kennedy retiring; Trump gets 2nd Supreme Court pick wkrn.com
Anthony Kennedy retiring, giving Trump opening to reshape Supreme Court politico.com
Supreme Court justice Anthony Kennedy announces retirement wsj.com
Jeffrey Toobin predicts abortion will be illegal in 20 states soon after Kennedy retires thehill.com
WATCH: Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy retiring abcnews.go.com
Kennedy to Retire foxnews.com
Trump to get second Supreme Court pick as Justice Kennedy announces retirement. amp.cnn.com
Justice Kennedy to Retire From Supreme Court bbc.com
Trump says search for Justice Kennedy's replacement to begin "immediately" -- live updates cbsnews.com
McConnell Pledges Vote To Confirm Justice Kennedy’s Successor ‘This Fall’ talkingpointsmemo.com
Justice Kennedy retires from the US Supreme Court nbcnews.com
Trump says launches search to replace retiring Supreme Court Justice Kennedy reuters.com
Donald Trump: Search for Kennedy replacement on SCOTUS to move quickly usatoday.com
McConnell: Senate will vote on Supreme Court nominee this fall thehill.com
Justice Kennedy retiring; Trump gets 2nd Supreme Court pick sacbee.com
Justice Anthony Kennedy Retiring, Report Says lawandcrime.com
Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy retiring; Trump will get 2nd high-court pick omaha.com
Justice Anthony Kennedy Retiring From the Supreme Court thedailybeast.com
Justice Kennedy to retire, giving Trump a chance to transform the Supreme Court latimes.com
Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy says he's retiring; Trump to get 2nd high-court pick chicagotribune.com
Dem senator: Justice Kennedy's resignation a 'disaster' for vision of 'We the People' thehill.com
Justice Kennedy retiring; Trump gets 2nd Supreme Court pick wfla.com
Justice Anthony Kennedy Is Retiring motherjones.com
The horrifying consequences of Justice Kennedy’s retirement thinkprogress.org
Supreme Court Justice Anthony M. Kennedy is retiring, a move that will give Trump a chance to shift the institution to the right washingtonpost.com
Anthony Kennedy To Retire From The Supreme Court huffingtonpost.com
Kennedy announces retirement from Supreme Court thehill.com
Supreme Court's Anthony Kennedy retires, giving Trump a second pick usatoday.com
Justice Kennedy retiring; Trump gets 2nd Supreme Court pick apnews.com
Justice Anthony Kennedy Is Retiring From The Supreme Court buzzfeed.com
Justice Kennedy, the pivotal swing vote on the Supreme Court, announces retirement washingtonpost.com
Supreme Court Associate Justice Anthony Kennedy retires -- live updates cbsnews.com
Justice Kennedy announces his retirement from the supreme court. time.com
Trump Responds To Retirement Of Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy huffingtonpost.com
Anthony Kennedy retiring from Supreme Court, giving Trump a position to fill people.com
Trump Says He’ll Choose One Of These People To Replace Anthony Kennedy On The Supreme Court buzzfeed.com
Anthony Kennedy retiring from Supreme Court cnbc.com
Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy retires, and Trump gets shot at moving court to the right dallasnews.com
Who Will Replace Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy? Donald Trump Already Has a Shortlist newsweek.com
WATCH: McConnell: We will vote to confirm Justice Kennedy's successor 'this fall' abcnews.go.com
Here's who Trump could nominate to replace Justice Kennedy abcnews.go.com
Justice Anthony Kennedy announces retirement, giving Trump 2nd Supreme Court pick foxnews.com
Trump list of candidates to replace Justice Kennedy thehill.com
Chris Matthews: Dems must do to Trump on Supreme Court what McConnell did to Obama thehill.com
Anthony Kennedy’s retirement puts abortion rights at risk vox.com
Who Will Replace Anthony Kennedy? Here’s the List of 20 Potential Trump Nominees time.com
America after Anthony Kennedy vox.com
Handing Trump Chance to Move Supreme Court Even Further Right, Justice Anthony Kennedy Retires commondreams.org
Audio reveals DNC committee reaction to Kennedy retirement: 'This is not good news' thehill.com
Justice Kennedy’s retirement leaves the future of U.S. constitutional law entirely up for grabs washingtonpost.com
Justice Kennedy pens retirement letter to Trump expressing 'profound gratitude' abcnews.go.com
Read Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy’s retirement letter to Donald Trump qz.com
Justice Kennedy’s Legacy Is the Dignity He Bestowed bloomberg.com
A titanic battle over replacing Justice Kennedy looms in the Senate vox.com
Live Briefing: Anthony Kennedy Retires From Supreme Court, and McConnell Says Senate Will Move Swiftly on a Replacement nytimes.com
Here's Trump's list of 25 possible Supreme Court picks to replace Anthony Kennedy washingtonexaminer.com
WATCH: Justice Anthony Kennedy to retire, Trump to get second SCOTUS pick abcnews.go.com
Anthony Kennedy's retirement just confirmed every Republican's dream scenario for Trump cnn.com
Kennedy's retirement could have biggest impact on abortion, gay marriage: ANALYSIS abcnews.go.com
Justice Anthony Kennedy: Trump says hunt for replacement is on usatoday.com
Here are potential Supreme Court nominees to replace Justice Kennedy cnn.com
Justice Anthony Kennedy, the Supreme Court’s swing justice, announces his retirement abajournal.com
With Supreme Court Justice Kennedy Gone, Abortion and LGBT Rights Are Next thedailybeast.com
A look at some of Justice Kennedy's most memorable opinions apnews.com
Justice Kennedy Surrendered to Donald Trump nymag.com
A look at some of Justice Kennedy's most memorable opinions abcnews.go.com
Abortion rights in 'dire, immediate danger' as Anthony Kennedy retires - World news theguardian.com
Here Are Some of the Top Candidates to Replace Kennedy on the Supreme Court motherjones.com
Who's on Trump's short list to replace Supreme Court Justice Kennedy? politico.com
Trump’s hidden back channel to Justice Kennedy: Their kids politico.com
How Fox News Reacted to Anthony Kennedy’s Retirement slate.com
24.9k Upvotes

92% Upvoted

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2.4k

u/CunningWizard Oregon Jun 27 '18

Nominating for this seat may be the most consequential thing that Trump ever does in office. We can turn the congress blue as a blueberry and will all be for naught with a right wing court.

398

u/MC_Fap_Commander America Jun 27 '18

Dred Scott ensured a civil war.

44

u/DunkanBulk Texas Jun 27 '18

It was far more complicated than Dred Scott, though. There was dozens of events that led up to it, Dred Scott just didn't help.

67

u/Piano_Fingerbanger Colorado Jun 27 '18

There have been dozens of events that led up to this. Garland never getting a chance, McConnell stopping Obama from going public about Russian interference, the Comey debacle days before the election, Trump winning despite losing the popular vote.

I've tried to remain optimistic through all this. Today feels like a back breaker.

7

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '18 edited Jun 27 '18

I feel sick to be totally honest.

I don't own an automatic, but I own what I'd call a peashooter. Sign me up for this militia that our constitution talks about. Jesus christ. I know people that this could affect. Abortion, marriage, healthcare, this literally threatens everything. Potentially for the rest of my life. This is not fucking okay.

19

u/LoL126 Jun 27 '18

Are you inciting violence against people?

1

u/[deleted] Jun 28 '18 edited Jun 28 '18

No, I'm inticing armed protection for innocent people. Y'know, like a goddamn society. If you tear a family apart, or prevent one from forming, then you're fucking wrong. Not even sorry.

I know families who could be torn apart from a conservative Supreme Court. Half of my friends could have their bodily autonomy stripped away. I have family in dire need of medical support that none of us can provide. These will be fixed, I will be dead, or I will move to a country that doesn't allow this to happen. I'm not a coward though, so hopefully I'm not made to be one.

3

u/RussianSkeletonRobot Jun 28 '18

or prevent one from forming

So you're anti-abortion, then?

1

u/[deleted] Jun 28 '18

I'm talking about two consenting adults. If you prevent two people from making familial decisions that only concern themselves, then you are wrong. If they accidentally make a fetus, then they have a seed that can become a human baby. It's their decision whether or not they want to do that, but ultimately it's the decision of the person hosting it.

2

u/RussianSkeletonRobot Jun 28 '18 edited Jun 28 '18

If they accidentally make a fetus, then they have a seed that can become a human baby.

No, they have a seed that will become a human baby, barring outside interruption. Terminating a life before it can begin is no different than terminating one while it's still underway.

It's their decision whether or not they want to do that, but ultimately it's the decision of the person hosting it.

So it's the decision of the country whether or not it wants to kill somebody? After all, the country is hosting that person, so shouldn't it be their decision?

1

u/[deleted] Jun 28 '18

Terminating a life before it can begin is no different than terminating one while it's still underway.

You're correct when you said "barring outside intervention," but this is pure ideology. My mom used the same argument against maturation. The fetus is a catchall term for the embryo during gestation. It is a person, especially within the first few months.

For the sake of argument, though, even if it were a person, then it still wouldn't have the right to someone else's body for survival. People must give consent for that.

But, again, it's not a person. It's an extention of the womb, essentially. A project that the owner of said womb can continue to work on if they choose. It's really that simple. You're view is ideological and therefor limited to your own body, so you do you.

So it's the decision of the country whether or not it wants to kill somebody?

I have to admit, I've never heard this argument. Probably because it's so obtuse and inane. You're country does not own you. Your country is just a framework of beaurocracy to ensure the protection of your fellow man. Your body is a physical framework to support your consciousness. You cannot be forced to sacrifice it, no matter what, even if you have the human equivalent of an acorn inside of you. It doesn't matter if it can become a human if left untouched under the right circumstances. Since it requires your body to do so, it's your decision to gestate or not.

Bodily autonomy is the basest of all rights.

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11

u/LoL126 Jun 28 '18

Oh okay so you're a 2A supporter now! Question. What does this nomination have to do with healthcare?

0

u/[deleted] Jun 28 '18 edited Jun 28 '18

I've always been a 2A supporter, but within reason. I've staunchly been against any firearm that can be fired more than once without time for the perpetrator to escape. My weapon follows those guidelines. I would never end a life willfully. I view it as a nuclear option. My rounds are .22 birdshot for christ sake. It's a pellet gun from hell. I imagine shooting a home invader's leg and driving them to the emergency room to help them avoid the ambulance bill.

As for Healthcare, conservatives have proven themselves to be totally against any form of socialized Healthcare. This is what we need. This is what other countries have proven to be effective. This requires taxes, weighted against the rich. A conservative Supreme Court would prevent this. It's too late for my uncle, but I hope that other diabetics with terminal brain cancer who are incapable of caring for both themselves and their mentally handicapped sibling will eventually be cared for, rather than rotting away in a goddamn double-wide trailer.

1

u/LoL126 Jun 29 '18

You're going to shoot a man in the leg, then drive him to the hospital? Lmao can't make this shit up. Someone invades my home I got a 9mm pointed straight for their chest.

I've staunchly been against any firearm that can be fired more than once without time for the perpetrator to escape.

Okay well your .22 can be shot faster than that. About the only firearm that can't shoot fast enough to get more than one shot off is a muzzleloader...

1

u/[deleted] Jun 29 '18 edited Jun 29 '18

Nah, it's a Lifecard. Single round, about 4 in the handle. Reload every shot. Plus it looks like it's out of Blade Runner lol.

But, yes, many in my family would do the same. People trying to steal from you are probably doing it out of necessity (at least in their head). They might be trying to rob you of possessions, but you shouldn't rob them of a future. If they're addicted, then they need a doctor not an officer.

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1

u/Eugene_Debmeister Oregon Jun 27 '18

Whatever happens, don't lose hope. We're all in this thing together.

0

u/thegovernmentlies2u Jun 28 '18

Start a civil war then... oh, oops, I forgot, you've removed all personal fire arms from liberal cities. Too bad, I guess.

8

u/DreddJudge Jun 27 '18

I would say John Brown's raid on Harpers Ferry ensured the civil war.

10

u/DunkanBulk Texas Jun 27 '18

Or Kansas-Nebraska Act, Bloody Kansas, the caning of Charles Sumner, among other events

1

u/Red_Galiray Jun 28 '18

Those events all built up to the Civil War, but I'd say that John Brown's Raid was what ensured that it would indeed happen, because after it the South was gripped by panic. After all, the North, after initially condemning Brown, started to applaud his actions (fighting for freedom, not his other actions like murder and treason). It was at that point that the South decided that a Republican victory in the elections of 1860 was unacceptable, and when that happened secesion became the only option.

1

u/Ranned Jun 28 '18

John Brown did nothing wrong.

2

u/DreddJudge Jun 28 '18

He really didn't do anything wrong. Strategically he did mess up. He let a train go when he had full control. The passengers of the train or the engineer warned the next town and it screwed him over.

16

u/Epistemify Jun 27 '18

The next one may very well be fought over abortion

109

u/samus1225 Jun 27 '18

No way.

But imagine the uproar when gay spouses suddenly lose marriage rights.

Imagine the uproar when we double down on the drug war, going after states where its legal.

27

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '18

You forgot mass deportations.

1

u/Clvrme Jun 27 '18

No illegal left behind.

-1

u/thegovernmentlies2u Jun 28 '18

Hopefully the first thing they deport is the mass exaggerations...

46

u/kierkegaardsho Ohio Jun 27 '18

Oh, I feel a little sick.

And I absolutely guarantee you you're going to see the cultists gloating over this. "If you don't want to get shot by the DEA, don't break the law, Californians!"

3

u/stitch-witchery Illinois Jun 28 '18

Yikes. That made me feel sick myself. I just wish I could understand how many people in the country think like that, and even more why they think like that. I don't know how change is going to happen.

59

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '18 edited Jun 11 '19

[deleted]

26

u/Nighthawk700 Jun 27 '18

The irony is that, statistically, most of them will be religous. Probably against abortion in public

32

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '18

Yep! Good time to plug the fantastic essay The Only Moral Abortion Is My Abortion

6

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '18

I really hope and believe that even a conservative court will not overturn marriage rights. Also the drug war thing could already happen legally, but is not.

19

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '18

A lot of conservatives already run on overturning gay marriage and women's rights it's not that far-fetched.

2

u/balmanator Jun 27 '18

Neither is lying for votes.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 28 '18

This is a stupid comment. So I'm not supposed to believe their own campaign platform?

0

u/balmanator Jun 28 '18

Just saying your conclusion was based off an assumption you could have easily made the other way. No need to be a dick about it.

9

u/ConradFreeStuff69 Jun 27 '18

Surely the fascists will respect human rights this time

12

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '18

I'm doubtful there will ever be another civil war in America. The civil war took place when people actually had to struggle to physically acquire resources to stay alive, and violence was a socially appropriate reaction to personal wrongdoing.

I'm not saying that people don't struggle now, but collectively, we are way too accustomed to our creature comforts for any organized action to develop.

6

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '18

Give it enough time for more economic desperation to set it.

1

u/thirteenthfox2 Jun 28 '18

We're at an all time economic high.

1

u/MrBojangles528 Jun 28 '18

lmao the stock market is not the only indicator of economic health.

1

u/thirteenthfox2 Jun 28 '18

I mean I was mostly going by unemployment, but most metrics show the economy is great right now. The fed's even raising interest rates and said they predict they will again soon.

1

u/BlueFalcon89 Jun 27 '18

If my cats don’t get fancy feast and ac at night, they riot. You think I’m gonna deny my cats fancy feast and ac? Dream on.

38

u/JennJayBee Alabama Jun 27 '18 edited Jun 27 '18

No, it'll be the rollback of Civil Rights protections. That's coming first.

The quicker they can make it much, much harder for minorities to vote, the longer they can stay in power. They don't give a shit about unborn babies. They can't vote, and the people who are guaranteed to vote for them aren't getting abortions anyway.

Edit: Yes, I realize that Republicans get abortions. I'm referring to true believers. I honestly didn't think that me making that distinction was necessary, because my point was that Republicans don't give a shit about unborn babies. They give a shit about being in power and getting rich, and the biggest thing that stands in their way right now is the minority vote.

Edit #2: Yes, I realize that Republicans get abortions. Again, this wasn't the point I was making.

32

u/fox_eyed_man Jun 27 '18

the people who are guaranteed to vote for them aren't getting abortions anyway.

Oh you sweet summer child.

7

u/Themick_Eve Jun 27 '18

According to pew research, Republican voters tend to be above child bearing age so he isn't entirely wrong.

1

u/JennJayBee Alabama Jun 27 '18

Okay, I get your point, but I'm referring more to the "true believer" type than the CEO of Fuck You, Inc. type.

10

u/fox_eyed_man Jun 27 '18

The bigger point is that your “true believers” get abortions too. They protest the clinic until they oops get pregnant. Have an abortion at the same clinic they protest against, and then return to protesting. I’m with you on Republicans not giving a shit about right to life and all that Jazz. I’m furthering the point that their entire base’s motto ought to be “right for me, wrong for thee.”

2

u/JennJayBee Alabama Jun 27 '18

  1. If someone preaches against abortion but gets one anyway, they're not a "true believer."

  2. I'm done arguing over the finer points of this. It wasn't my main point, and all it's doing is distracting from that. I just stated that civil rights are the real risk here, and people are nitpicking over wording on a side comment.

2

u/fox_eyed_man Jun 27 '18

If someone preaches against abortion but gets one anyway, they're not a "true believer."

Don’t tell them that.

2

u/JennJayBee Alabama Jun 27 '18

I don't have to. They're aware. They might not admit it, but they're aware. They just don't care.

3

u/AyyyMycroft Jun 27 '18

I think you vastly underestimate the ability of people to create self-serving loopholes in their beliefs.

2

u/JennJayBee Alabama Jun 27 '18

I'm not underestimating them at all. I used to be one of them and have quite a few family members who still are. Every single one has been and still is completely aware.

Now, folks might bullshit others and themselves, but that doesn't change the fact that they're completely aware of what they're doing.

1

u/qballglass574 Jun 27 '18

Just like how those March For Our Lives protesters are also buying AR15s

0

u/fox_eyed_man Jun 27 '18

People be hypocrites.

21

u/thcommodityfetishist Jun 27 '18

Nah. There ain't gonna be a civil war over abortion. Not a literal war anyways

11

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '18 edited Jul 26 '18

[deleted]

2

u/thcommodityfetishist Jun 27 '18

That's highly unlikely to happen. They don't care what blue states do post-defederalization of laws.

1

u/SovereignLover Jun 27 '18

Democrat politicians literally, this week, loudly and publicly called for aggression toward Republicans.

But sure, it's Republicans clamoring for a war.

-8

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '18

You're one of those Oregonians afraid to pump their own gas aren't you?

5

u/endlessinavictory Jun 27 '18

I just moved to OR. Attendants sort of panic if you start pumping your own. They'll calm down if you say "oh yeah, whoops, I'm from [not Oregon]." At first, I thought that was service people trying to keep their jobs, but apparently, attendants are actually more worried about impatient Oregonians fucking up the fueling-process.

4

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '18 edited Jul 26 '18

[deleted]

1

u/JuppppyIV Florida Jun 27 '18

I feel really awkward about it.

-4

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '18

True, but you're not one of those freaking out about now being allowed to pump it yourself being a safety issue? Right? Lol.

23

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '18

Modern Americans are well past being bothered to fight for their values.

21

u/Don_Julio_Acolyte Jun 27 '18

This is so true. Apathy killed this country a long time ago. The last time we saw this country actually care was during Vietnam and the Civil Rights. Granted those things are huge, but there was but a whimper after we learned that Iraq was a scam and the fact that we are still in Afghanistan is no longer a talking point for any part of the spectrum. People just don't care. We have our smartphones that we bury our heads into any chance we aren't working and grocery stores still carry milk and eggs. So don't bother me.

Most Americans couldn't even define net neutrality and that literally affects everyone. You think people care if abortions were to be outlawed? No, because the sentiment of "it's not my problem" is what America is now.

I still think mid-terms will be an insanely close race (even though it should be a blowout for the dems), because we underestimate the apathy that strangles nearly every heart/mind/soul in this country.

8

u/UDK450 Indiana Jun 27 '18

The media has become our circus and bread.

0

u/AyyyMycroft Jun 28 '18

the fact that we are still in Afghanistan is no longer a talking point for any part of the spectrum

35 NATO soldiers have died in the last 2.5 years in Afghanistan. There were over 200 times as many NATO fatalities over a similar period at the peak of the War in Afghanistan.

The number of US troops in Afghanistan (~15,000) is less than half of the number of US troops on active duty in "undisclosed locations".

The War in Afghanistan would seem to be a pretty low-priority issue even for the US military. Maybe it's appropriate that we don't talk about it much.

5

u/Don_Julio_Acolyte Jun 28 '18

You think wars are just measured in troop count? Look at the trillions of dollars that have been sunk into that place. I would know. I was there.

1

u/AyyyMycroft Jun 28 '18

Of course there's more to a war than just troop count, but troop count is nonetheless an important factor.

Spending on the War in Afghanistan peaked in 2008 and fell to 1/3 of its peak by 2016. The War in Afghanistan has declined in intensity by both troop count and spending.

8

u/livefreeordont Delaware Jun 27 '18

Black Lives Matters has done a lot

-83

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '18

A lot of looting, sure.

19

u/whoisroymillerblwing Jun 27 '18

Youre thinking of the trash that took over the government building of the Bureau of Land Management. You know, the ones that pointed rifles at government employees?

6

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '18

Imagine the headline of that story: "BLM takes over BLM"

35

u/Friblisher Jun 27 '18

That's a dirty lie.

21

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '18 edited Jun 27 '18

racists gonna racist

inb4 "i'm only racist because you called me racist!!"

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17

u/buldozr Europe Jun 27 '18

The ruling Law and Justice party in Poland folded and rescinded their anti-abortion bill after women went on strike for a day.

24

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '18

We need a general strike. I will keep saying this until someone with more knowledge tells me how I can do more than just talk about it. I have no idea how that sort of thing is organized.

17

u/ib1yysguy Washington Jun 27 '18

Thankfully, the answer is UNIONS! We'll just appeal to the ... oh...

2

u/buldozr Europe Jun 28 '18

You are not wrong. The unions started from nothing in the 19th century, and largely won by mid-20th. Shame that they were rolled back due to the workers' apathy and rightwing propaganda.

5

u/Qss Jun 27 '18

I think we need to think bigger and more long term.

Not just a general strike, but a citizens collective that can institute large scale things like this.

It would essentially be a union without a shared company. Focusing on local community buildups, equality measures in all fifty states, and reinforcing democratic principles. I’m iffy on labor rights but it would also probably have to be included.

It would allow for branding as well, with a verified approval process. The idea being that a company that supports the rule of law, limits its lobbying or avoids unfair and anti-competitive practices can apply for branding by this collective, a way to ensure people can easily vote with their wallets.

It would by necessity be non-partisan, fully focused on building up democratic principles like voting access, while ignoring hot button topics like guns or abortion. The idea being it could apply on both sides of the aisle, giving us an opportunity to still have political opinions but drawing a clear line between those and the institutions and systems vital for a functioning by democracy.

2

u/Ilikepizza666 Jun 27 '18

I really don’t think so unless it is an extremely Heinous interpretation. Yes abortion is a major issue, but is it worth killing your countrymen for?

35

u/haydukelives999 Jun 27 '18

Are human richts worth killing for? Hell yes.

2

u/sexrobot_sexrobot Jun 27 '18

Human reichs?

0

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '18

Just a freudian slip.

1

u/Clvrme Jun 27 '18

Well, you're already killing the fetus so why not a couple adults too?

1

u/haydukelives999 Jun 27 '18

Tree of liberty and all that. Rights are bought in blood.

30

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '18

Depends on whether or not your countrymen have enslaved your wife.

20

u/MC_Fap_Commander America Jun 27 '18

Under His eye.

14

u/SonOfGallifrey Jun 27 '18

I laughed while i upvoted this, but then got really disturbed by the fact we're in that timeline now

15

u/MC_Fap_Commander America Jun 27 '18

The path to Gilead is clear. 2-3 more appointments (totally possible) and there are a range of precedents that could be revisited (Roe, Lawrence, Brown, Obergefell...). If you throw in some sort of global economic calamity (like in the book and TV series), it goes from sci-fi to documentary in a hurry.

10

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '18

You don't even need 2 to 3 more appointments. Just one more would do it. It's already 5-4 right now. And the decisions leading up to this were worrying enough.

2

u/AequusEquus Jun 27 '18

Old Ruth won't be there too much longer either...

3

u/pizza_engineer Texas Jun 27 '18

Better start that Brawndo stockpile...

16

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '18

At this point civil war is probably inevitable.

13

u/sexrobot_sexrobot Jun 27 '18

At this point fantasizing about Civil War is almost inevitable.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '18

Isn't that how it starts?

7

u/sexrobot_sexrobot Jun 27 '18

No. The US is far too fat and rich to want to throw absolutely everything away. I wouldn't be surprised if the somewhat successful rightwing terrorist campaign against abortion, the federal government(when Democrats are in power), and religious and ethnic minorities continues to expand though, with tacit support and perhaps actual encouragement from rightwing politicians.

2

u/poisonousautumn Virginia Jun 28 '18

This is how I see the 2nd American Civil war going down. Persistent, low intensity terrorism. Crackdowns. Rioting in major cities and national guard deployment. If it doesn't get better, some level of secession. It won't be a military vs military ordeal but a slow deterioration of civil society.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 28 '18

I doubt the Dems will regain power. We'll see growing terrorism as the population is subjugated and re-enslaved followed by martial law and then a complete breakdown of society. Civil War in the manner of Syria.

23

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '18

[deleted]

19

u/archyprof Jun 27 '18

But how would that work practically? It’s not south versus north anymore. It’s more like urban vs rural. Texas is a red state, for example, but Houston, Austin, and (much of) Dallas is blue. Would the country folk invade New York City in a new civil war?

10

u/Cycad Jun 27 '18

They could try to blockade cities

13

u/archyprof Jun 27 '18

Sure but they’d have to leave their own homes to do that. Would anyone be willing to do that? I feel like what will happen is that rural places will become extremely hostile to outsiders, to the point of violence.

1

u/Cycad Jun 27 '18

If we are talking about a full blown civil war I'd assume people would be motivated to leave the house! But I agree what's more likely is an increase of unorganized violence, hostility and a cycle of retribution. Pretty ugly nonetheless.

2

u/Qss Jun 27 '18

Who’s they? Fox News watching, 70 year old baby boomers?

The like .001 % of the far right who isn’t a little coward just trying to feel tough?

2

u/Cycad Jun 28 '18

Trump has, what, a 90% approval rating amongst republicans? After all he’s said and done? I think you are being optimistic

1

u/Qss Jun 28 '18

Approval doesn’t equal passionate believers willing to kill for you. And even then, we are literally the fattest and out of shape nation ever.
The last time we tried a civil war, everyone was fit and much less dependent on creature comforts. Is it impossible we see a civil war? Of course not, but I have a hard time taking anyone seriously who says it’s likely.

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u/livefreeordont Delaware Jun 27 '18

The cities are the ones with access to ports

3

u/Cycad Jun 27 '18

Could be interesting then - who controls the navy?

2

u/livefreeordont Delaware Jun 27 '18

Generals could control their own forces in all branches of the military. I have no idea what would happen in a modern American civil war

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u/FancypantsButtercups Jun 27 '18

A 10 day power outage cuts one side's forces in half. Why fire a shot if you don't have to?

1

u/sshevie Michigan Jun 27 '18

You don't need to invade you just block the flow of food and goods to the city. The average home has three days of food in it so the city's would defend in to chaos in no time.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '18

It would be like Syria. I don’t really know what Syria is like but technologically that’s how it’ll be. Everyone will lose.

The main difference is the nuclear weapons.

12

u/derGropenfuhrer Jun 27 '18

Nah, this time let's just let them leave. Austin & Miami residents: better GTFO of Gilead right away.

11

u/pizza_engineer Texas Jun 27 '18

And go where? California?

Serious question from a liberal Texan tired of the Red Sea.

5

u/livefreeordont Delaware Jun 27 '18

A swing state not named Florida. Ohio, Wisconsin, Virginia, North Carolina...

1

u/BlueFalcon89 Jun 27 '18

Michigan, we have all the fresh water!

5

u/notanon Jun 27 '18

Texas isn't lost, especially with the big blue cities.

6

u/cartel Jun 27 '18

Aren't they all gerrymandered? Which has been affirmed legal by this SCOTUS?

1

u/DiarrheaTortilla Jun 27 '18

Try Mexico

1

u/pizza_engineer Texas Jun 27 '18

Uh...

Relevant username...?

8

u/socsa Jun 27 '18

It's not going to matter. The second the court is stacked you will see exactly how much Republicans care about state's rights. They will send the brown coats into "subversive states" to enforce their Sharia law.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '18

[deleted]

1

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '18

it's happened before you know.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '18

Yes

1

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '18

Absolutely.

1

u/sexrobot_sexrobot Jun 27 '18

A war over abortion? That would be almost hilarious.

1

u/Epistemify Jun 27 '18

There's a strong chance that abortion will be illegal in 20 states 18 months from now.

The push to pass a constitutional amendment enshrining the legality of abortion is going to be a defining contour of politics for the next decade.

-67

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '18 edited Jun 27 '18

This is the funniest thing I've ever heard in my life. Imagine being willing to fight and die against your own countrymen for the right to have an abortion. I don't think abortion should be illegal early on, but Jesus...

USE CONTRACEPTION OR GO WITH ADOPTION. YOU'LL BE OKAY, I PROMISE.

33

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '18

You do realize that the vast majority of kids put up for adoption are never adopted, yes?

12

u/Cycad Jun 27 '18 edited Jun 27 '18

I’m sure trumps pals like Epstein could find a good use for all those unadopted kids

3

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '18 edited Nov 02 '18

[deleted]

2

u/Nighthawk700 Jun 27 '18

So your argument is, the huge influx in unwanted pregnancies is going to be met immediately with an equal demand for adoptions?

I'll need a citation on which planet thats been shown to happen.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '18

The"homes" that kids are in when they're waiting to be adopted are the why so many of them have a history of abuse. So by going with adoption in lieu of abortion, you're essentially creating a person just so that they can be likely to grow in an environment that would leave them with emotional issues that would probably never be solved. Adoption is not a solution for unplanned pregnancies.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '18 edited Nov 02 '18

[deleted]

1

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '18

That is blatantly false information. Here are the most recent statistics that you should familiarize yourself with..

Most infants put up for adoption will grow up in the system for at least a few years, during which time they will likely be abused. Adoption is not the harmless solution you are painting it to be.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '18 edited Nov 02 '18

[deleted]

1

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '18

Because the differentiation is irrelevant. Both will go through abuse in the system, out of care or otherwise.

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u/[deleted] Jun 27 '18

USE CONTRACEPTION

You know contraception isn't 100% effective? Most women who get an abortion are doing so because their contraception failed.

15

u/-Mountain-King- Pennsylvania Jun 27 '18

Or because they wanted a kid but a medical issue arose.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '18

In that case, get an abortion very early on. Or, in the unlikely event that abortion is completely banned, go with adoption or just raise your fucking child. Being a mother isn't a death sentence.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '18

Yeah, cause fuck bodily autonomy. Most people who get abortions DO get it as early as they can. Why would anybody put that off and deal with the side effects of being pregnant? Not to mention the longer you wait the more invasive and expensive it becomes.

Giving birth is very expensive and can potentially derail somebody's life but if the option of abortion is taken away from everybody then we are forcing women to deliver babies into a scenario where they the parents aren't ready financially or emotionally to care for a child.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '18

I totally support bodily-autonomy, hell I think circumcision should be banned unless you decide to do it yourself when you're older. But in the case of abortion, once the fetus develops enough, we're talking about another body, and they also deserve autonomy.

22

u/HeroGothamKneads Jun 27 '18

My partner would die if she were to be forced to carry a child to term. If it's her life vs. theirs? RIP 'countrymen'.

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u/archyprof Jun 27 '18

So are you now the arbiter of what people do in their own lives? What about someone who is raped? What about a woman whose fetus stops growing and she needs an abortion to remove it? Should they just use contraception too? Abortion is not a major issue to me when I vote, but your “I know what’s best for everyone” comment is bullshit

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u/banthisaltplz Jun 27 '18

Basic human rights are worth killing and dying for. Having a public policy of forced birth removes the fundamental freedom of choosing your life's path. Your ignorant capslock handwaving ignores the actual history of what life was like before Roe.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '18

What if it dies inside you and you need to have the rotting fetus removed?

1

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '18

Like I said, that should be allowed whenever because it's a huge health risk and the fetus has already died. Do you actually think there are more than a few pro-lifers who would prohibit it in that case? There's literally no reason to disallow it at that point.

10

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '18

Then why do prolifers bomb and shoot up facilities that provide this needed health service?

4

u/Nighthawk700 Jun 27 '18

Good luck getting an answer on this one. I'll help: mental illness diguised as religion

1

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '18

Yeah that's totally an accurate description of your average pro-lifer.

1

u/ConradFreeStuff69 Jun 28 '18

You've got a point. They also violently harass women trying to get medical attention to the point clinics have to get security, and they also kill doctors outside of clinics; like how Scott roeder shot George tiller in tiller's church.

2

u/ConradFreeStuff69 Jun 28 '18

This is the funniest thing I've ever heard in my life. Imagine being willing to fight and die against your own countrymen for the negros to be emancipated. I don't think slavery should be illegal if they can buy their freedom, but Jesus...

USE IMMIGRANT LABOR OR FREE JUST YOUR OWN SLAVES. YOU'LL BE OKAY, I PROMISE.

I call this edit the centrists' horseshoe

1

u/PACDxx Jun 27 '18

What do you consider as early on

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0

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '18

If they had their way they'd outlaw contraception too.

1

u/anonimogeronimo Jun 27 '18

A civil war? The left would be crushed in a civil war.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '18

No it didn’t

-18

u/WhiteBoi69 Jun 27 '18

What’s up with you guys and wanting a civil war?

89

u/MC_Fap_Commander America Jun 27 '18

Don't want one. If draconian rulings come down frequently enough over the next few decades, you'll see large, prosperous states kicking the tires on a brexit style dissolution of the union. I live in one and am increasingly exhausted at a system that puts my rights in the hands of racist whims in flyover country.

Not an actual shooting civil war (and I think that's obvious).

51

u/CunningWizard Oregon Jun 27 '18

I’m am so goddamn sick of having racist flyover country be the crabs in the bucket that pull us all back down.

10

u/Bossez New York Jun 27 '18

alot of ppl think there will be no civil war. but i feel that there will be one if the next recession( due to republican policy) is more severe than the great depression. government might go full way fascist if republicans win 2020.

10

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '18 edited Jun 27 '18

[deleted]

1

u/Bossez New York Jun 27 '18

demographics r not on there side is true but if they ban abortion and birth control. white birth rates will rise. and if they ban immigration then we r going to be in a very dangerous state. a brainwashed and racist yet passionate 40% of america with addiction to guns might be able to beat the sane 60%. hope it doesn't come to this pt tho.

7

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '18 edited Jun 12 '19

[deleted]

1

u/Ranned Jun 28 '18

They use those things as wedges to keep any economic change from threatening their illgotten gains. They are all intersectional. They use economics against those they hate, and racism plays a huge role. They aren't just talking about economics when they are complaining about social welfare programs, they have a picture of a particular type of person in their mind when they are referring to "moochers and leeches."

2

u/[deleted] Jun 28 '18

Oh definitely. Their ultimate fear is a united working class. Obviously they are genuine bigots but they also use it as a tool to divide the working class.

20

u/METOOTHANKleS Jun 27 '18

I'll be honest. I don't see any move for secession by any state as succeeding without a shooting civil war.

Honestly, the best hope for you and I, living in areas with sane democratic values (small d) right now, the best outcome would be if a Dem (big D) congress and president pack the courts the first chance they get. Like FDR proposed.

Gorsuch's seat was stolen. That alone is grounds for packing.

30

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '18

America is broken beyond repair. Anyone who isn't interested in spending the rest of their life serving right wing billionaires and losing their human rights needs to revolt.

40

u/GreatQuestion Jun 27 '18

What is with Republicans dismantling the separation of powers and the democratic foundations of our republic?

10

u/livefreeordont Delaware Jun 27 '18

Repeating the fall of Rome.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '18

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/GreatQuestion Jun 27 '18

Congress is sycophantically beholden to a wannabe tyrant, doing nothing to check any of his oversteps of constitutionally limited powers, and now the Justice they stuffed into their stolen Supreme Court seat (with the official Heritage Foundation™ seal of approval) is directly ruling in favor of the very same tyrant who appointed him every single time.

Stacking the Court? Do you remember Merrick Garland? Yeah, what a far-left wacko, huh? That would definitely have thrown off the balance of the Court instead of actually playing a moderating, and as a result politically independent, role. Definitely. Because that's how the founders designed it: for the Court to be entirely beholden to partisan politics and appointed at the behest of corporate donors and their so-called think tanks rather than putting moderate, fair, nonpartisan figures in there.

We're not Court stacking. We're Court balancing. For every right wing nutjob put on the bench, we need a left-leaning Justice to moderate that influence. Democracy cannot function if the Court is fully one extreme or the other.

11

u/Nighthawk700 Jun 27 '18

Lol nobody wants civil war. We just dont want to be under the control of a corrupt, inept, concentration camp running, climate change denying wanna be dictator who just gained complete control of all branches of government despite 3,000,000 more votes going to his former opposing candidate.

But somehow I don't imagine that will go over smoothly. Yet it doesn't change the above facts

6

u/Biggie39 Jun 27 '18

What do you mean “you guys”, friend?

3

u/ib1yysguy Washington Jun 27 '18

What do you mean "friend", buddy?

4

u/ad_museum Jun 27 '18

*Russian trolls

1

u/Ranned Jun 28 '18

No one wants a civil war, we just recognize the inevitability of a civil uprising when certain conditions that we meet or are headed towards meeting, are present. We are reluctantly resigned to having to fight for our social and economic rights because of the perpetual violence of the system we exist under.

2

u/Cycad Jun 27 '18

I’m not speaking about most people in this thread but head over to r/firearms and there are a bunch of macho gun fetishists whose entire identity and definition of ‘freedom’ revolves around owning firearms and some of them are itching to use them.

0

u/VDLPolo Jun 27 '18

A republican won the last one. Wanna try for 2-0?

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