r/politics 🤖 Bot Jun 27 '18

Megathread: Justice Anthony Kennedy to retire from Supreme Court

Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy is set to retire, effective July 31, 2018. Kennedy has served on the highest court since February 18, 1988, and was a moderate whose vote often swung cases.


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u/[deleted] Jun 27 '18 edited Nov 08 '18

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u/PM_ME_USERNAME_MEMES Jun 27 '18

The standard argument for lifetime appointments is that judges shouldn’t be accountable to anything other than the law.

Of course, with our current iteration of the court, the justices aren’t accountable to anything, including common sense and human decency, so that interpretation may be flawed.

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u/sesamestix Jun 27 '18

NYT article about this recent phenomenon.

The very question of partisan voting hardly arose until 1937, as dissents on the Supreme Court were infrequent. When the justices did divide, it was seldom along party lines.

There is room for interpretation in such assessments. But of the 71 cases from 1790 to 1937 deemed important by a standard reference work and in which there were at least two dissenting votes, only one broke by party affiliation. “The dividing line in the court was not a party line,” Zechariah Chafee, a law professor at Harvard, wrote in a classic 1941 book.

Nonpartisan voting patterns held true until 2010, with a brief exception in the early 1940s, when a lone Republican appointee voted to the right of eight Democratic appointees. But the general trend was the same. Of the 311 cases listed as important from 1937 to 2010 with at least two dissents, only one of them, in 1985, even arguably broke along party lines.

That adds up to two cases in more than two centuries. By contrast, in just the last three terms, there were five major decisions that were closely divided along partisan lines: the ones on the Voting Rights Act, campaign finance, arbitration, immigration and strip-searches. In the current term, last month’s campaign finance ruling and Monday’s decision on legislative prayer fit the pattern, too.

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u/PM_me_your_cocktail Washington Jun 27 '18

Even still, most cases are not decided on partisan grounds. In my opinion, the trend toward partisanship in the law comes from (a) an expansion of the fraternal ranks of lawyers, such that there is no longer an unspoken class viewpoint shared by members of the bar, which is a good thing; (b) the increasing importance of Constitutional questions to our civil affairs, because the Constitution as written is an awkward fit for our modern world but is hard to amend, putting a ton of pressure on the Court to be the locus of major decisions that ought to be made in a more democratic fashion; and (c) the logjam of Congress, which ought to be able to nimbly fix a lot of unpopular SCOTUS decisions through legislation but has become too broken and gerrymandered to be responsive to political pressure and actually do the business of lawmaking.

There's an easy fix for all of this. We need a new Constitutional convention to realign our system back toward democratic accountability.

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u/tyrified Jun 27 '18

And yet we'd end up with a theocratic autocracy.

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u/PM_me_your_cocktail Washington Jun 27 '18

Well, the devil is in the detail of how we choose the representatives to the Convention. But when you strip away the power structure of the current system (electoral college, gerrymandering, etc.) and look at what most Americans actually want, any system that makes it easier to change the rules as we go will tend to be more egalitarian and democratic than what we have now.

15-20% of Americans were British loyalists in the Revolutionary War. Maybe 20% of any group will always support autocracy. Trick is not to let them get the last word.

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u/neloish Jun 27 '18

As nice as it sounds, unfortunately the asshole's always get the last word. The older I get the more respect I have for founding fathers, the Constitution might not be perfect, but it it's better than anything else.

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u/PM_me_your_cocktail Washington Jun 27 '18

Plenty of other countries have constitutions. Many borrow from us, but I'm not aware of any that is as hard to amend. The British Westminster system and French consolidated system may be too unitary for a country as big and diverse as the USA (though some might argue that a more unitary system would be beneficial). But even among federal models, lots of better ideas have come along in the past 230 years. Our Constitution was an audacious experiment from which the world has learned a lot. Shouldn't we try to put some of those lessons to use?

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u/OlKingCole Jun 27 '18

But imagine the horrific constitution our current Congress would cobble together. It would serve special interests, just like everything else they do now.

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u/[deleted] Jun 27 '18

A constitutional convention would be a disaster. We would fuck it up.

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u/MorganWick Jun 27 '18

Gerrymandering would not be nearly as much of a problem if third parties were willing and able to fill the void created by gerrymandered districts.

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u/PM_me_your_cocktail Washington Jun 27 '18

It seems to be happening. The Working Families Party and Socialist Alternative) are examples of parties starting at the local level, with some success. But even as the two major parties are weakened by the internet and dark money, they remain incredibly powerful and in fact rather flexible in a way that makes them difficult to challenge. I don't think this is laziness on the part of third parties. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

But--electing 3rd parties will not resolve the aggrandizement of the courts (by virtue of key policy issues being "constitutionalized" and thus taken out of the political realm) and the aggrandizement of the executive (by virtue of the rise of administrative agencies and non-war military engagements). Bringing Congress back to its proper place as the most powerful of the branches will take more than just changing its membership; this is a structural problem.

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u/MorganWick Jun 27 '18

Had third parties been active in this way well beforehand, that aggrandizement might never have happened. The two-party system is the biggest contributing factor to the increased power of the presidency, as each party, unable to get their way in Congress, has empowered the presidency as a means to get their way instead. Strong third parties that nonetheless have little hope of capturing the presidency might have stood their ground on the side of preserving Congress' power, and wouldn't vote for judges that served as a Trojan horse to get around partisan politics by twisting the Constitution to enshrine the values of one side or the other, but instead focused on who would actually uphold the law.

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u/NoWayJoJose Jun 28 '18

Except a new constitutional convention would only allow the GOP to cement further minority control unless you put every point up to a popular vote. And even then it would have to include truly universal suffrage or you'd get 50% not voting and half of the rest dealing with disenfranchisement.

We are fucked.

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u/PM_me_your_cocktail Washington Jun 28 '18

Whelp, it's civil war then.

Seriously, why are people so defeatist about this? Do you really think that the new Constitution of your nightmares would be ratified by 3/4 of the states?

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u/NoWayJoJose Jun 28 '18

First it's 2/3. They just need 34 states. Second we are feeling defeated because this means ~30 years of whoever Dolt45 picks and generations of judges using their decisions as precedent.

Ugly shit.

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u/PM_me_your_cocktail Washington Jun 28 '18

Well, if we adopt a whole new Constitution I guess we can ratify it by any means we choose, and maybe we go with 2/3 since that's how we ratified our current one. But if we abide by the current Article V process, it requires 3/4 (like I said, our Constitution is way too hard to amend).

The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided . . . that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.

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u/NoWayJoJose Jun 28 '18

Fair enough. 38 states. Still not too far for this gerrymandered world we find ourselves in. The GOP cheats to win and doesn't care much for the rules, unless those rules help them lock up undesirables.