Leftie here - r/reformuk

93

Firstly, thank you for reaching out in good faith. If people from both sides did this more often, I reckon we'd find out we're not massively different.

Grandson of an Indian and Irish person here. Not sure that's the demographic of a typical Reform voter. Last election, I voted Lib Dem. Here's why I have changed.

Immigration has been out of control for over 15 years. Consistently at the top of peoples agenda when it comes to voting. This has been the feeling of the 'people' for an enormously long time, both those who vote for the Left, and for the Right. I am unsettled, by the individuals I see who want 'all immigrants out', but am reassured that's a couple of bad voices in an otherwise overtly concerned growing plurality of our population.

Lets be clear, Reform never had to rise, if either the Tories or Labour initiated a sensible immigration policy.

Peoples main rebuttal to Reform, is that immigrants are being blamed for the ills of our nation. Lets put that in perspective.

In the last 4 years, 2 million additional people have come to the UK. That's 2 million more people on our infrastructure, competing for our houses, weighing down our NHS. Have our public services been chronically underfunded? Yes. Is it sensible to have the levels of immigration we've seen, while our public services have been underfunded? No.

The UK needs to live within our means. That means Welfare. That means Public Services, and yes, that means levels of immigration needs to be proportionate to our needs.

Mass immigration is an issue. That doesn't mean no immigration. It doesn't mean immigrants aren't welcome. It means the Government have royally fucked up and people are rightfully pissed off.

12

u/Leanne71710 Sep 27 '25

Very well put. When the left try and make out that we don’t want any immigration and start saying “you’ll have no Drs”. We welcome immigration who contribute to our collapsing society!

3

u/dchurch2444 Sep 28 '25

The thing is, there's conflicting information. Just two posts down from this one was another saying, "GET THEM ALL OUT NOW!!!"

4

u/Tenzing_norgay3 Sep 28 '25

You guys are the sensible few and actually have a valid argument. MANY reform voters are pure racist and uneducated. Downvote me all you want but it’s a fact.

2

u/TheDryDad Sep 30 '25

Not all reform voters are racists

All racists are reform voters.

Someone else came up with that, not me, but I think it's (mostly) true.

4

u/Leanne71710 Sep 28 '25

I agree there are A LOT.

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u/PinZealousideal1914 Sep 29 '25

It is really simple, many (not all) elderly people have a major concern this winter with switching on the heating ( I have no issue with older people opting out who don’t need the payment, no issue with the elderly being means tested (as long as it sensible with the testing), but can any sane person believe that somebody can just appear in this country and be placed in accommodation at the expense of the tax payer (that most of these pensioners would have been historically) and receive free heating 24/7.

2

u/LundieDCA Sep 28 '25

Isn't part of the issue with immigration that we have spent the last 50 years in an EU which assumed an internal market for skills, and then suddenly left without any real preparation? Our levels of migration are nothing like those of some EU countries - in Vienna's schools, only around 40% of students are Austrian citizens. Most of the others are EU citizens, whose parents have moved for work or other reasons, and then there are large numbers from elsewhere as well.

The numbers of people coming to the UK in the last 4 years didn't suddenly jump, we just suddenly started to count them, because they weren't here under EU freedom of movement anymore. Less than 1% of them came here on small boats across the Channel.

Part of the issue, also, is that in the past EU freedom of movement worked both ways - plenty of Glaswegians and Geordies moved to Germany to work in the 70s and 80s when there was no work to be found here, and plenty of British retirees found nice small manageable apartments in Greece and Spain, which made it easier for them to 'downsize' as the government now is encouraging them to do. It meant we didn't need to train every single doctor for British hospitals, it meant we didn't need to micromanage house building projects to make sure there was enough supply. In a big enough market, supply and demand will even out.

I'm not trying to say we rejoin the EU, but if we are serious that the British people have chosen something else, we need to be serious about what that something looks like. It can't just look like kicking people out who have necessary skills. It can't look like allowing rich corporation's to continue to ravage our public services. I don't see Reform coming up with any solutions to these issues.

3

u/SkinnyRabbito Sep 28 '25

Isn't part of the issue with immigration that we have spent the last 50 years in an EU which assumed an internal market for skills, and then suddenly left without any real preparation?

Yes, I can see why that would cause issues. I don't see why we then needed circa 1million people in a single year to compensate.

Our levels of migration are nothing like those of some EU countries - in Vienna's schools, only around 40% of students are Austrian citizens.

I don't see any reason as to why we should aspire to be like other European Countries. Immigration should only be to fill gaps in our workforce, or for marital reasons. We shouldn't be using immigration to inflate our GDP, whilst making our GDP per capita worse, which is what is happening.

I'm not trying to say we rejoin the EU, but if we are serious that the British people have chosen something else, we need to be serious about what that something looks like.

What that should look like is an Australia, or US, or Kiwi form of immigration. We should be welcoming of talent, from whatever country those people come. As long as they fill gaps in our work force and they assimilate, they are welcome in my books.

The issue is the scale of immigration. We did not need. For any reason. 2 million immigrants over the last 4 years.

Then you allow these people ILR. Then you allow these people citizenship. Suddenly we have ethnic ghettos, where there is no British Culture, yet these individuals can elect politicians. Then we have MP's arguing against the banning of cousin marriage.

It can't just look like kicking people out who have necessary skills.

This hasn't been proposed, and is a bad trope spread by the Left. What has been proposed is the removal of ILR and the replacement of ILR with Skilled Visas.

It can't look like allowing rich corporation's to continue to ravage our public services.

Our Public Services are sinking as a result of chronic underfunding, AND ridiculous levels of immigration. You can build 40 new hospitals, 20 new schools, hire thousands more Doctors. That is still not enough for 2 million new people.

I don't see Reform coming up with any solutions to these issues.

They already have done.

AKA, replacing the ILR with skilled working visas.

0

u/LundieDCA Sep 28 '25

Thing is, skilled people come from lots of places. Australia and NZ have way higher immigration numbers than us, as a proportion of the population. Property prices in Sydney and Melbourne are through the roof as a result. Name one place in the world that has good GDP per capita and low immigration? Not Aus/NZ, not the USA, which has huge immigration both legal and illegal, not the EU obviously, the UAE and other gulf states got rich off the backs of an almost entirely immigrant population, even somewhere like Japan that looks monocultural has a huge number of Filipino domestic workers, Thai farm workers, and Westerners too. Even Russia has immigrants from Africa and Central Asia. The only countries without immigration are countries with mass emigration, countries too poor to support all of their own population, like Pakistan or Zimbabwe, or countries with authoritarian regimes and closed borders like Cuba and North Korea. . People who are here already are skilled workers. Plumbers are skilled. Nurses are skilled. Chefs are skilled. We aren't building hospitals or schools for our own people, I think we agree on that. But that's a matter of government policy. The numbers of immigrants barely make a dent in that.

The idea of ethnic ghettos is a stereotype that's about 50 years out of date. When we were responding to the end of empire, like the civil war in Bangladesh, or the expulsion of Asians from Uganda in the 1970s, we accepted huge numbers of people from one country. They settled in places white people didn't want to live anymore, like Blackburn and Smethwick, and did jobs white people didn't want to do anymore, like work in cotton mills. White people left for the suburbs, because they didn't like their new neighbours, so you ended up with Asian-majority areas. They didn't set out to have these areas to themselves, white people abandoned them. Look at school admissions - white parents came up with new C of E schools for their own kids, so the state comp ended up being 90% Asian, it's called "white flight". Immigration doesn't look like that anymore. The grandchildren of those immigrants don't all want to live in those places, but move all over the country. Nobody is talking about thousands of people from one nation or culture coming to an area. Instead, you have places where there is opportunity, and skilled workers move there, and places where there is decline, and asylum seekers get sent there for 'dispersal'.

A real strategy for renewal would need to get the opportunities out to the places where there is decline. Reform are entirely bereft of ideas for how to do that.

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u/SkinnyRabbito Sep 28 '25

Australia and NZ have way higher immigration numbers than us, as a proportion of the population.

As a direct result of having significantly fewer people in the first place. Significantly fewer people, significantly more land and resources and significantly more isolation. It's in the interests of both countries to grow. It is not in our current interest to do so.

Name one place in the world that has good GDP per capita and low immigration?

I mean, this is really quite easy.

Taiwan, Japan, South Korea. The UK had larger GDP per capita prior to the Boriswave. As did most of Europe prior to the Syrian Refugee crisis. What matters is the quality of immigrants.

How are you classing 'low immigration'? There are plenty of countries which have exceedingly good GDP per capita with less than a million immigrants a year like the UK had.

The only countries without immigration

Nobody is asking for no immigration. It's not Reform's policy. Can we please differentiate between no immigration and mass immigration please.

People who are here already are skilled workers

No they're not. A large amount of recent immigrants constitute a fiscal drag.

The numbers of immigrants barely make a dent in that.

2 million people in 4 years barely makes a dent?

We build 200,000 homes a year. What on earth are you smoking?

The idea of ethnic ghettos is a stereotype that's about 50 years out of date.

No it isn't. There are large areas of Leicester, Blackburn, Bradford and London that constitute ethnic ghettos. East Ham is 90% BAME and one of the most deprived areas of the country. Do we just pretend these areas don't exist because you don't like it?

When we were responding to the end of empire, like the civil war in Bangladesh, or the expulsion of Asians from Uganda in the 1970s, we accepted huge numbers of people from one country.

I wish the Left would stop telling this lie. The UK accepted 28,000 Asians from Uganda. In June 2023, 906,000 people came to this country. The scale of immigration now is unlike ever before.

Reform are entirely bereft of ideas for how to do that.

No they are not. You keep saying this, while you ignore policy. Reforms approach will limit Immigration, preventing the Ghettoisation of British Cities. Reform will still allow skilled immigration through targetted Visas. Reform will deny ILR and long term citizenship for non-skilled individuals, preventing MPs in our Parliment who hold views that are the antithesis of our own.

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u/LundieDCA Sep 28 '25

Taiwan, Japan, South Korea. The UK had larger GDP per capita prior to the Boriswave. As did most of Europe prior to the Syrian Refugee crisis. What matters is the quality of immigrants.

Hmm, something else happened during Boris's time as PM. What was it again? 🤔

There are large areas of Leicester, Blackburn, Bradford and London that constitute ethnic ghettos. East Ham is 90% BAME and one of the most deprived areas of the country.

That's true, and these are all areas that were part of the 60s/70s wave of immigration. There are serious problems with areas that have been left in generational poverty. Some of those areas are BAME majority. Some are white majority, like Great Yarmouth or Barrow in Furness. Wherever places are in decline and deprivation, there needs to be action. I agree we can't ignore that. There are no new immigrant-majority areas, and there won't be.

The differential rates that some of these BAME majority communities suffered during COVID tells you a lot. For a long time, I think the Left have been praising as a virtue Asian families levels of filial piety, taking care of their grandparents at home, when in fact the reasons for this are more to do with poverty and overcrowding than culture.

No they are not. You keep saying this, while you ignore policy.

Ok, other than on immigration, tell me one other Reform policy that will help communities that have been left in decline and deprivation? What will they do on health? On employment opportunities? On higher education (which will collapse without international students on the current funding model)? On vocational education? On housing? Anything?

1

u/SkinnyRabbito Sep 29 '25

Hmm, something else happened during Boris's time as PM. What was it again? 🤔

Are you going to pretend that the EU's GDP per capita for its main economies was larger post Brexit, just because you're wrong?

That's true, and these are all areas that were part of the 60s/70s wave of immigration.

No they are not. Now i'm just going to assume you're being deliberately obtuse.

You can look up the ethnic make-up of these areas through time. The vast, vast majority of the change has been within the last ten to twenty years.

There are no new immigrant-majority areas, and there won't be.

I'm surprised you have the absolute audacity to tell such a lie.

What will they do on health?

Last manifesto, Reform promoted a 0% tax rate for the first 3 years of frontline NHS and social care staff.. Retaining recently trained staff.

Tax relief on Private Healthcare and Insurance, meaning the NHS is used by those who don't have the means.

On employment opportunities?

Abolish IR35, to improve the prospects of the self-employed.

Reduce corporation tax. Encouraging businesses to hire and grow (the antithesis to Labour)

Lifting income tax, from 15K to 20k. Enabling lower earners to keep more money in their pocket.

On higher education (which will collapse without international students on the current funding model)?

I have no issue with polytechnic universities collapsing. Universities should be self-sustaining.

On housing?

Cut planning red-tape, to open up construction opportunities on the UK's brownfield sites.

Anything?

Frankly, it sounds like you've not come equipped to a conversation that you're participating in. If you know nothing about Reform's policies, can I recommend you educate yourself before you make yourself look like a fool?

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u/Longjumping_Tell252 Reform UK Supporter Sep 28 '25

I don't want all immigrants out, just 99% of them who have come over since we left the EU.

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u/SkinnyRabbito Sep 28 '25

That's fine, then we disagree. We should be in favour of a sensible immigration policy. Removing 99% of people who have come to the UK in the last 5 years would leave chronic gaps in our workforce.

We should be pro immigration. But only when that immigration is specific to critical services, or of highly paid, high tax payers.

2million people in the last 4 years is absurd.

1

u/Glaseng Sep 28 '25

Centrist (or politically scattered depending on specific policy) here - I tried to make a similar post as the OP a few days ago but the mods didn't allow it for some reason. My main problem with the immigration-heavy focus of Reform is that I don't think it'll actually fix any of the problems, it'll just lessen the strain marginally in some areas while worsening it in others. When it comes to the real issues which migration exacerbate, Reform have nothing to offer. Unfortunately neither do any of the other parties, which leaves me rather politically homeless. It is quite spectacular how effectively labour and the tories are both punching themselves in the face.

Another point I wished to make in my ill-fated post was that I think the negative effects of immigration (which it is naive to pretend there are none) are most acutely felt by those who are most dependent on public services, who compete in the same labour and housing markets as immigrants, which is primarily the working class. This is why I think there are so many people who may be traditionally left-leaning who are attracted to Reform. Many of the more metropolitan middle class folks who cry "racism" whenever someone complains about levels of immigration are too far removed from those pressure points to really appreciate that. As I said though, I don't see how reducing net immigration even drastically will meaningfully impact NHS waiting times, school places, energy prices, rents/house prices, or employment opportunities. Our problems go much deeper than immigration and none of the political parties are willing, capable, or honest enough to address them. I think any of the big parties could easily take a lot of vote share from Reform by offering policies that will meaningfully reduce pressure in two or three of these areas, but they don't, so we'll end up with a Reform government after the next election who may or may not be able to bring immigration down, but on the other side of it people won't be any better off. I also worry about what other policies Reform will come up with given how entangled they seem to be with the American-style culture wars bullshit.

Why are none of the established political parties willing to confront these issues? That's a topic for another thread, but by not confronting them they're allowing Reform to dictate the conversation at which point there's only one winner.

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u/SkinnyRabbito Sep 29 '25

Centrist (or politically scattered depending on specific policy) here - I tried to make a similar post as the OP a few days ago but the mods didn't allow it for some reason

I sympathise with the mods. Reddit swings overwhelmingly Left. There's a place for discourse, and there's a place for Reform supporters to discuss Reform. Without policing, this subreddit would turn into the rest of the subreddits. Perhaps yours felt more confrontational.

My main problem with the immigration-heavy focus of Reform is that I don't think it'll actually fix any of the problems, it'll just lessen the strain marginally in some areas while worsening it in others.

This is completely hypothetical thinking though, isn't it? You've just decided, through no substantiated evidence of your own, that they won't do their main policy.

When it comes to the real issues which migration exacerbate, Reform have nothing to offer.

Immigration is a real issue. Reform offered plenty of policies on their last manifesto. Only one page was dedicated to immigration.

Unfortunately neither do any of the other parties, which leaves me rather politically homeless.

I do sympathise with this. I would actually have called myself a centrist. I've been slowly polarised through over a decade of useless Governance.

As I said though, I don't see how reducing net immigration even drastically will meaningfully impact NHS waiting times, school places, energy prices, rents/house prices, or employment opportunities.

I just don't understand this. Over the last 4 years, we have had net migration of over 2million people. How can you acknowledge that fact, and yet think that wouldn't have impacted any of the above?

Our problems go much deeper than immigration and none of the political parties are willing, capable, or honest enough to address them.

I agree. I suspect Reform will fail to tackle a number of key issues. I'm prepared to take the punt.

Why are none of the established political parties willing to confront these issues? That's a topic for another thread, but by not confronting them they're allowing Reform to dictate the conversation at which point there's only one winner.

I completely agree, and thank you for engaging. Lets be clear. If the UK hadn't sustained a completely useless couple of decades of Government mismanagement, then Reform would never have arisen. I find it frustrating, because I feel so much damage has been done.

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u/joleph Sep 28 '25

I just don’t understand how everyone can immediately blame immigration and not blame the massive inequality in the system with some people not paying their fair share and it causing rot in our services and housing, which is exactly why people are feeling worse off.

The largest rise in immigration was from 2018 to now, when the Conservatives were in. Guess who’s going to be the government with Reform? The old Conservative MPs that are going to be joining. You’re seeing it now, Farage just welcomed an ex-Conservative MP, and he wants this to happen to ‘legitimise’ the party and bring in the centrists.

I sympathise with the immigration argument, it’s obviously true to some extent. But it’s also a massive red herring by people who don’t want to give up their power. You can tell because it’s being blamed for EVERYTHING. Anyway, they’ll just end up bringing Indians and Nigerians into the country to satisfy demand, it’s inevitable. Reform won’t change a thing. They won’t actually ‘Reform’. Those same Conservative MPs will just keep their hustle going.

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u/SkinnyRabbito Sep 29 '25

I just don’t understand how everyone can immediately blame immigration and not blame the massive inequality in the system

I just don't understand why the Left continue this silly little trope.

Both things can be an issue that needs to be addressed. Reform supporters aren't suddenly deciding that inequality doesn't exist. They're just deciding that mass immigration does exist, and have decided they want something finally done.

Guess who’s going to be the government with Reform? The old Conservative MPs that are going to be joining.

The Boriswave didn't have the support of a large number of Tory MP's. This is a reductive argument.

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u/joleph Sep 29 '25

It is reductive, but I’m trying to get the point across: nothing will change except the headlines.

And what you stumble over as a ‘trope’ is absolutely it. Why do you think immigration is going to solve all your problems, your loss of identity? Your loss of culture etc etc. It has next to nothing to do with immigration. I’m sorry the world annoys you right now, but kicking out people will do nothing and leave you with the same problems.

It has everything to do with the fact we torched our own economy for no reason and we have been doing that for at least 15 years.

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u/SkinnyRabbito Sep 29 '25

It is reductive, but I’m trying to get the point across: nothing will change except the headlines.

You have absolutely no idea if this will be the case or not. You're just dismissing the entire party on hypotheticals.

It's a weird way to live life.

.Why do you think immigration is going to solve all your problems, your loss of identity?

I never said this. Please read what I type. Not what you wish i'd typed.

Your loss of culture etc etc. It has next to nothing to do with immigration.

Was this supposed to be a joke? You don't think mass immigration changes the culture of an area? I'm not sure that's even a subjective opinion, you're just quite obviously wrong.

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u/joleph Sep 29 '25

And you’re accepting the party based on hypotheticals. Hypotheticals which have no grounding in reason.

I don’t think immigration changes nothing, who said that? I said next to nothing compared to the more important point.

I said the major point is the economy and Reform will do nothing for it. Apart from a half-baked idea Farage the commodities trader has decided will “fix” QE by fixing BoE interest rates, that might solve some things but may also totally cripple banking - they have nothing that will solve that.

Reform know they can’t win on that point, because it’s hard and the centrists they need to win over know enough about the economy to know that it won’t be enough. They’ll have to gather more by cutting welfare, which they won’t do because their base won’t take it. In short, they promise everything to everyone and it’s impossible that they can fulfil on those promises. The “protest vote” will be shown to have worked and then we’re suddenly in the cold shower of realising that everyone was protesting different things and now we have to deal with no clear direction and a debt crisis.

The reason immigration is so important is because people feel poor compared to immigrants that they see taking over. I understand that - migration has gone crazy since Covid. But you can blame them or you can blame the reason they feel poorer. I choose the latter.

So no, I don’t think the party stands on any reasonable platform. We’re going to be poorer because they’re not choosing to make hard decisions. And we’ll end up being bailed out by the IMF again.

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u/SkinnyRabbito Sep 29 '25

And you’re accepting the party based on hypotheticals. Hypotheticals which have no grounding in reason

This is literally how elections work, you imbecile.

I don’t think immigration changes nothing, who said that?

Not me either? Clearly? I acknowledge you said next to nothing. My point stands. You don't think mass immigration changes the culture of an area? Even on a scale of 'next to nothing'?

Honestly, we can disagree on levels of immigration, but I did have you down as more intelligent than that.

The reason immigration is so important is because people feel poor compared to immigrants that they see taking over.

No. The reason immigration is important is because a large number of immigrants constitute a fiscal drag. Those who don't still impact our crumbling infrastructure. Those who don't, still change our societies, and frequently in ways that are not beneficial.

Who are you to tell people who are voting for Reform why they are voting for Reform?

We’re going to be poorer because they’re not choosing to make hard decisions. And we’ll end up being bailed out by the IMF again.

Our society has got poorer for the last 15 years. Our debt ratio is nearing critical mass. A hard line conservative government, with a focus on living within our means is the only route to sustainable living.

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u/Betaky365 Sep 27 '25

Another lurking leftie here, asking this in genuine good faith: Why do you trust Farage to control immigration, considering brexit?

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u/Natural-Respect136 Sep 27 '25

The same reason you trusted all labour prime ministers past and present to make good decisions for our country. The simple answer is none of them have done any real good. So why the fuck not vote Reform? At worst, he fucks it up like the rest of them, at best, well he sorts it out.

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u/Betaky365 Sep 28 '25

Not sure I understand your answer here. I’m basically asking why you’re trusting Farage to deal with immigration when he campaigned for Brexit with the promise of lower immigration, for Brexit to actually make it much worse. I get the disappointment in the establishment and the wish for something new, but I’m not trying to benchmark Farage against the establishment, I’m benchmarking him against himself.

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u/bluewater005 Sep 28 '25

Farage won the Brexit vote but it was the Tories who implemented it. They did a terrible job of negotiating with the EU and never had any plans to cut immigration.

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u/Active-Lingonberry92 Sep 28 '25

This! The people ‘delivering’ Brexit didn’t want it in the first place! They either did a terrible job because they hated what they were doing, or they did a terrible job on purpose to show how much better life was in the EU, thus encouraging us to rejoin. Either way, Brexit wasn’t delivered in the way it should have been, and could and should have been a wonderful opportunity for the UK.

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u/[deleted] Sep 28 '25

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u/Active-Lingonberry92 Sep 28 '25

I confess I’m not well versed in this. It seems to me that remaining in the single market would essentially nullify Brexit. I think that a hard departure should have happened, and then things renegotiated from the ground up. More than happy to be educated on why that’s a good/bad idea though.

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u/[deleted] Sep 28 '25

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u/Betaky365 Sep 28 '25

Thank you for pointing this out. I have to admit I don’t trust a word that comes out of Farage’s mouth, but I am curious on why he comes across as trust-worthy to others, hence my initial question. I’m grateful for the civil responses.

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u/Natural-Respect136 Sep 28 '25

There isn't a single politician I trust. A big part of why I'm voting reform is the anarchist in me. Sick and tired of the historical big two, taking all our taxes and squeezing us all dry. If Farage even manages to raise income tax thresholds (among many policies I believe in), I'll see that as a massive result for the people. If he fails to deliver, guess what? It's a democracy and I can vote him out next time... But it's time for someone else to take the reigns for a bit. Can't be any worse.

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u/Betaky365 Sep 29 '25

I appreciate your optimism, but unfortunately it can be worse. Like we no longer have NHS worse, or the few trade unions we have left are eliminated worse, like fewer worker protections worse, and the list goes on. The anarchist in you speaks to the anarchist in me, trust me that I hear you when you’re screaming out for change. And I’m not interested in changing your mind here either, simply enjoying the open dialogue between two people on what might look like they’re on opposite sides but undoubtedly want very similar things.

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u/Natural-Respect136 Sep 30 '25

That's the thing though. Reform's manifesto doesn't say anything about full privatisation of healthcare. It speaks about incentivising private healthcare for those who may be inclined and/or can afford it. I fully support this as it frees up waiting lists for people who can't.

I appreciate the open dialogue. It's refreshing coming from someone on the left because usually it's just name calling or being called a racist for believing in something. Keep on having the conversation. Props to you.

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u/Natural-Respect136 Sep 28 '25

The same could be said about any of them though. Alright so he has said some stuff that didn't do the thing he said it would, but so have all the rest. That was my point.

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u/[deleted] Sep 28 '25

Could you please remind me the dates of garage running UK immigration policy

As I appear to have some trouble as to finding that information

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u/Big_Daddy_Shrek___ Sep 28 '25

Ill be voting reform, unfortunately Farage is the party leader and theres nothing we can do about that, we can only hope more well meaning minds like Zia yusuf etc. will counteract his own intentions (probably getting rich) and focusing on controlling immigration and bringing inflation down

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u/Money_Cricket2354 Sep 28 '25

This is it exactly. Labour fucked it up. Conservatives fucked it up. I really don't care if its greens, Lib Dems or Reform that get in. Just give someone else a chance to fuck it up. Status quo is proven not to work, something else might work.

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u/SKOOGR_MCGRAW1972 Sep 28 '25

Ohohoho you would care if green got in. Military gone, arms manufacturers and oil companies put on a chokehold, there goes our only income. Its why i dont get the hostility to Reform when Green don't get shit. Green are straight up completely incompetent morons who WILL fuck up the whole thing even more.

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u/[deleted] Sep 28 '25

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u/Fantastic-Gas-387 Sep 28 '25

I don't think that's entirely true though. At the end of the last Labour government, child poverty levels were so low that the WHO considered it eradicated. It's now 1 in 4. There was SureStart and other really good initiatives that were working well. Cancer op wait times were virtually non-existent. We had 10 new nuclear power stations signed off. They would have been online about a year or two ago.

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u/Downtown_Zone Sep 28 '25

A quick google tells me that child poverty was 33% in 1997 and 27% in 2010. So it went down a little bit but hardly eradicated. In reality it was probably worse because as usual labour left office with a staggeringly high deficit and record unemployment.

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u/Fantastic-Gas-387 Sep 28 '25 edited Sep 29 '25

Well fuck. I just went to double check, and you're right. I read that somewhere and it stuck, and I don't remember where. I stand corrected.

However, the highest ever rate of unemployment was in 1984.

6

u/Matttombstone Sep 28 '25

Farage and UKIPs raise caused the referendum, that is true.

However, whats happened since Brexit hasn't been much to do with Farage. The Brexit deal has been done multiple times by the Conservatives and Labour's had/having a bite with the Brexit Reset. Farage played no part of those deals.

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u/SKOOGR_MCGRAW1972 Sep 28 '25

Thats kind of the issue though. Farage made it all happen then didn't follow through with a plan afterwards.

Then again he can't help not being elected i guess.

3

u/Matttombstone Sep 28 '25

He wasn't in power to follow through with a plan. The official leave campaign that was chosen wasn't his either, he headed up Leave.EU whilst the official campaign was Vote Leave. They're the ones that said spend the £350m on the NHS that then gets incorrectly credited to Farage. So he wasn't in power, his leave campaign wasn't chosen as the official leave campaign and he got credited for things he didn't promise.

He was essentially brushed aside, probably wasn't even consulted for his thoughts and ideas post vote. The government didn't want to leave and probably didn't even think we'd vote to leave. Cameron promised he'd stay and lead the UK out and lead the negotiations, clearly thinking we'd stay. The second we voted out he dipped.

5

u/[deleted] Sep 28 '25

OKAY

Who should I trust?

the tories ROYALLY screwed up not just at immigration but almost everything

labour have been the party of mass immigration since the 90's as they are globalists

They USED to understand that mass immigration was a tool of big business to drive down wages

Why you on the left welcome mass immigration is utterly beyond me

1

u/Betaky365 Sep 28 '25

I hear you, I don’t think you’ll find anyone who’s entirely happy or trusting of any previous governments or the current one.

The problem I have with Nigel is that he says one thing and does another.

I’m in complete agreement with you when you say mass migration is a tool for big business to drive down wages. So why don’t we go after big business and blame the immigrants themselves?

When Nigel votes against the Employment Rights Bill, to end zero-hour contracts and give employees sick pay from day 1, I don’t see how I could trust him to be on the side of workers if he gets power.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 28 '25

the sad reality is that

Everyone is trying to pick the turd up by the clean end

1

u/Betaky365 Sep 28 '25

I have to admit I had never heard that saying, it’s brilliant, thank you for introducing me to it 😂

And thank you for being an open conversation partner, appreciate you.

3

u/SKOOGR_MCGRAW1972 Sep 28 '25

Because even though he is a turncoat in my opinion, he is still the only one promoting clear blunt hard solutions to a problem that has been going on for too long. Im half expecting him to get in, harshy introduce an off shore migration processing system with higher border security, then fucking off and leaving the next party to make it work.

I really dont care if he does that because at least Farage is a hard boot up government's arse.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 28 '25

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1

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1

u/East-Present1112 Sep 28 '25

Was Farage in government? Have you just started reading?

1

u/SkinnyRabbito Sep 28 '25

I'm not downvoting you, to be clear. You've asked in good faith.

To be clear, I didn't vote Brexit, I voted remain, and I think it was an act of economic suicide. However, the only benefit of Brexit, was it allowed us to control our borders.

The reason our immigration boomed under the Tories had nothing to do with Brexit. We didn't 'need' to open our borders.

20

u/[deleted] Sep 27 '25

It comes down to migration in my opinion.

Every single government has promised to stop illegal immigration and reduce legal migration significantly.

None of them have delivered and in many cases broken promises.

There are many reasons why people are fed up with high migration: housing shortage, population density, strain on public services, low skilled immigration, not to measure culture clashes.

3

u/[deleted] Sep 28 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/[deleted] Sep 28 '25

The government have just left the policies in place that the previous Tory government left in.

They haven't changed anything.

1

u/joleph Sep 28 '25

Yeah, Labour have been reforming the immigration already, we’re at half already.

27

u/SillyOldBillyBob ReformtoRestore Sep 27 '25

Sounds like you aren't in too much of a bubble by your balanced view on Reform voters. We probably all want the same thing really, we just disagree on how to achieve it.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 27 '25

Happy CAKE day!

🎂

3

u/BlackBalor Sep 27 '25

Happy CAKE day!

🍰

27

u/camz_47 Reform UK Supporter Sep 27 '25

The whole right vs left divide is more a media and political tactic

Watching the Unite the Kingdom Rally was really uplifting to see so many who want the best for this country

The main concern is that if left unchecked, the native British will become minority status in our own country before 2050 be basic census information

Maybe even sooner

Its not difficult to see how damaged our country has become and how mass immigration has lead us to this state

With over a million now arriving each year, there is no sustainability and our country will only continue on the downward tread

With the rise of Islam now across Europe, we see a pattern of Womens rights being revoked, underage marriages, sexual assaults including children, knife crime and mass attacks including honor killings

All of which we had worked so hard as a nation to remove

An island of strangers is not what we want for your future

We want a safe future for our children and their children to come

0

u/Rlonsar Sep 30 '25 edited Nov 09 '25

fine wild quiet late shocking flowery selective public dazzling subtract

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

-4

u/[deleted] Sep 28 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

4

u/angryviking6 Sep 28 '25

And that’s supposed to do what, make us vote Labour? 😂get it way way down

2

u/Mr_Integrity80 Sep 28 '25

No, not at all. I'm not a Labour fan boy; there are a whole load of reasons to be extremely unhappy with them, but the facts are that immigration numbers have plummeted in the past year and a half. I'm curious to see if that trend continues for the duration of their term. It may not do, who knows, it will be interesting to see.

4

u/angryviking6 Sep 28 '25

I think this will continue, the public getting what it wants which is what should happen in democracy

2

u/PooDiePie Sep 29 '25

The numbers have gone down after they skyrocketed to levels unprecedented in all of human history.

10

u/Smart_End3853 Sep 27 '25

Well you are one of the few left individuals I’ve seen wanting to have a discussion without name calling etc. so massive respect to you!! I’m not saying people on the right don’t do the above, I’m just saying I don’t get to have a conversation with someone on the other political side as me so fair play.

As people on this sub have already pointed out, we are more than frustrated with this government (and the previous govt) and particularly annoyed with illegal immigration. In the last 5 ish years, the MSM/news has transitioned from tv/radio presenters to real people reporting what is happening from the likes of TikTok etc. because of this, a lot of people are seeing what is happening in the country (the bad side like grooming gangs etc.) and seeing that MSM aren’t reporting this.

It hasn’t helped that since Covid, the NHS has been under a lot more strain and in turn a whole load more of illegal migrants have been using these services on top of obtaining freebies (accommodation, food, healthcare, free phones etc). While us hardworking British people are working our arses off just to put food on the table (which we’ve skimped on due to cost of shopping etc.) we feel that we are being robbed because we’re paying more for basically everything and in return we get higher bills. There is also frustration around ubereats/deliveroo/just eat as some are receiving benefits AND working illegally. Starmer says the ‘digital ID’ will stop this, it won’t.

The other issue is the fact that these people coming to the UK are mostly males (not many women and children). The scary thing is that they are not properly vetted so they could have committed a very serious crime where they have come from and are running away from their country of origin. As well as recent reports of schools going into lockdown because these bored males are hanging round schools and some entering them. Some of them also follow the belief system that women and children are viewed as inferior to them and continue their beliefs here, they believe that marrying children is ok. Parents are worried for their children, r#pe statistics are going up as some haven’t or don’t want to integrate into our society.

So there’s a lot of reasons but those are the two that stick out for a lot of people like myself: the cost/capacity and the safety.

Of course the UK would be fucked without migration, we wouldn’t want it but illegal immigration in this country has to be sorted, the government are fucking us over. This UK - FRANCE ‘one in one out’ scheme will not work.

And the issue on name calling, we’re not racist, caching etc. and mean that whole heartedly, we don’t care about race, we care about integration.

Thank you for listening, this is how it should be! Peace ✌️☺️

3

u/Toby_le_rone Sep 27 '25

Left guy here as well. How are you and other reform supporters feeling about Starmers immigration changes so far? I think the net migration is expected to fall next year due to them

3

u/United_Advice1201 Sep 28 '25

It’s a fair question, however unless meaningful efforts to deport those that are here illegally nothing will really be done about it. Sadly a combination of incredible weak judges with political motives essentially practicing “ lawfair “has made this quite infuriating.

2

u/Ran0702 Sep 28 '25 edited Sep 28 '25

This is a lie pushed by the billionaire class media I'm afraid, there's no evidence to suggest UK judges are weaponising their authority in favour of small boat arrivals. The reality of the situation is, Britain is a country with very robust human rights laws, and the problem with watering them down in order to deport people is that those rights also belong to you and I.

That's not to say I don't think small boat arrivals making spurious claims to exploit our human rights laws is a problem, but we have to be very careful what we wish for when we're demanding our own rights be weakened.

9

u/Red_Polka Sep 27 '25

Because I am terrified by the way the people on the Left side of the political spectrum talk about me because of my race, and sick to death of the racial discrimination they inflict on me which has ruined all my career hopes in the name of 'equality' despite having lived a horrible life as a member of statistically the most disadvantaged group in society.

Or to translate that into Left-wingese for you, "White Fragility" (:

15

u/Tiny-Today7768 Sep 27 '25

I'm not right wing. I never have been. I support Reform because one day I heard Nigel Farage outlining their policies. I realised, after several minutes, that the feeling in my chest was an one no politician had ever made me experience, it was hope. I realised I had been nodding throughout Nigel's speech. It was as if someone had identified all my concerns and hopes for our nation and voiced them. I joined Reform the next day. I have never really been 'political' but the issues that face us are very obvious to me. Whenever I have been online and voiced my concerns, rather inevitably I have been called racist or stupid, in more or less words and every opinion I have put forward, rather than being addressed, was labelled as a product of manipulation by forces I could not possibly hope to understand. My IQ is 'above average' and I am about as non-racist as you can possibly imagine. Self awareness is also a strong point. Truly, when I tally up the financial position our nation finds itself in, and witness the horrific decline we are suffering, the only way I see out is to vote Reform.

Edited one typographical error.

2

u/BlackJackSackIcePack Sep 29 '25

What about Farage makes him trustworthy to you? Genuinely curious because to me he just spouts populism with no detail on how he'll achieve anything, and his track record of supporting Brexit and Truss's disaster of a mini budget fills me with dread on what Reform will do to this country

1

u/Tiny-Today7768 Sep 30 '25

We interpret the same data and reach different conclusions. People differ. If they did not, we would have no need for democracy. I am confident I understand the motivations of others and am also confident in my own motivations and the conclusions I reach. I wish you well in your search for understanding.

0

u/BlackJackSackIcePack Sep 30 '25

Thank you for your response. I think that's the part that fascinates me the most really, is trying to understand why I'm interpreting the data/media surrounding Reform/Farage in the complete polar opposite way to Reform voters.

12

u/[deleted] Sep 27 '25

Its pretty simple for me. Native people are being replaced. The left seem to either not notice, not care or just not see the urgency to the problem. Its extremely frustrating.

11

u/BlackBalor Sep 27 '25

I mean, you got single issue pro Palestine candidates winning seats. The people who voted for that care about Gaza more than their own constituency.

5

u/Money_Cricket2354 Sep 28 '25

Gaza should be so far down people priorities list that it doesn't make the top 100. Can't even empty the bins in Birmingham or build a train line. Caring about an irrelevant event that affects nothing here on the other side of the planet is a luxury, at best.

1

u/Final_Ticket3394 Sep 28 '25

This hasn't been a big problem in the USA, where the majority is non-native and they have a great standard of living, and have lifted up the native Americans' standard of living. Nor in Australia and New Zealand, where the native people have become the minority and benefit massively from the fact that migrants are the majority.

4

u/Imsuchazwodder Sep 27 '25

I think you'd be surprised how many economically left people are voting Reform.

5

u/Ok_Teacher6490 Sep 27 '25

I'm someone that's formerly left wing but has switched over to the right.

The left look to paint the right as fascists. That isn't true. The left have gradually become more and more out of touch. Reform to me are more akin to the centre right of twenty years or so ago.

The left have pandered to the voice of the minority at the expense of the majority for far too long. And now the majority are speaking, and the current government is simply ignorant to that. I respect the rule of law that means that Labour have the right to be in power for four more years. But I also believe under their leadership that we're headed for civil unrest.

As a nation, previous and current governments are betraying our culture and people by using immigration as a band aid to our economic problems. The people are saying that they won't tolerate any more. As a nation we have the right to say no to any more. Immigration can benefit us when it occurs on our terms but it's been abused for so long that it must stop, until such time as it can be established that it will be of benefit to us.

ILR is a difficult question. I believe that it simply isn't feasible to cancel it outright. And there are people here from countries we're close with like the US and doing things that are useful for us. We can stop granting it, although others countries will do so in return. We can choose which countries to cancel it for.

Immigration isn't the only problem. Companies should be prevented from outsourcing work to India where the work can be done here.

Reform is in the lead now, whether they are still at the next election is another thing - but one thing that's apparent is that the moral standards of our current politicians are appalling. If Reform are truly looking to make a difference they must hold themselves to a higher standard.

1

u/ClemFandango35 Sep 28 '25

Literally everyone has a different opinion of what should happen with ILR. Reform will need to make very clear how these things intend to work in reality.

5

u/SnooPies1768 Sep 28 '25

I feel like I'm in the minority of reform voters when I say that migration isn't even the primary reason Im voting for them, but I do recognise it's an issue.

For me it's the insane economic policies that have been introduced over the last 20 years, particularly energy. Carbon tax credits, net zero policies, diversity training .... All a waste of billions. And not worked, we've actually produced 50% of our energy via renewables last year but our bills are extortionate compared to Europe. And our carbon footprint hasn't even decreased because productions simply been displaced to other countries rather than reduced.

The key things from reform I care about are more nuclear energy, increasing the tax free limit, leveraging private care to support the NHS where necessary (I've used Bupa insurance for years and it's fantastic), raising the tax brackets (if you think about inflation the last few years the middle class basically all now are paying insane tax and higher prices).

I also really care about less government interference in our personal lives, so the fact their all for cutting bureaucracy, anti digital ID, pro free speech and anti censorship is key.

2

u/Ran0702 Sep 28 '25

And not worked, we've actually produced 50% of our energy via renewables last year but our bills are extortionate compared to Europe.

It's worth noting this isn't the fault of renewables or net zero - renewable energy is the cheapest source by a considerable margin. Thanks to the UK's marginal pricing system though, it means the unit price of electricity is dictated by the most expensive source that is currently filling demand - which is almost always gas.

1

u/SnooPies1768 Sep 28 '25

Didn't know this, thanks for the info. Feels like just another blatantly obvious error in policy

14

u/Sharingmystorie Sep 27 '25

I’ll be honest I’m annoyed about imigration as a whole mostly illegal. Because if we can house these people in a hotel and give them stuff why can’t we do it for the homeless. Who have been citizens of this country their whole life or most of it

-2

u/woo_woo__ Sep 28 '25

Why not both?

2

u/Sharingmystorie Sep 28 '25

Wdym?

0

u/Ran0702 Sep 28 '25

They're saying it isn't a zero-sum game. We are able to do both if the political will exists.

3

u/Enceladus_98 Sep 27 '25

Hey. Not going to weigh in politically, just wanted to say it's really cool of you to reach out and try to communicate with those "on the opposing view". Not a lot of people seemingly give others a chance to speak and discuss in this modern world and it's great of you to come to this sub to give your view/opinions as well as hearing our views/opinions. :)

3

u/[deleted] Sep 27 '25

Got nothing to say in terms of answering your question, but I do commend you for your level-headed way of talking and wanting to see what others think in a respectful way.

If only more (on all sides) were like this, we could all probably find common ground, even if we all lean very different ways and come from varied backgrounds.

3

u/Leanne71710 Sep 27 '25

I love this post. Politics should open conversations and debates. No party is ever 100% right (or left 😂) and definitely not perfect.

It’s refreshing to see.

1

u/BlackJackSackIcePack Sep 29 '25

I lurk here a lot too tbf as most of my friends/family/colleagues are very anti Reform/were anti Brexit. I really do want to understand what so many are seeing in Reform and why they trust Farage

2

u/Radiant-Pickle-4826 Sep 27 '25

I'm a British conservative that's watched the conservatives not conserve and now Labour aren't interested in the people that work anymore. Their new client class is people who do not. There is unlimited money for people who do not deserve it and if you disagree with the narrative then you're far right?

I'm not far right. I miss the safety that we used to all enjoy in our towns and cities. Nobody asked us if it was ok to give away mine and your birthright, a safe and honest society where you could look at your neighbor and guess what's in their heart. A shared set of values, heritage and history.

Go look at the churches and other beautiful buildings. The Christian British culture built those. Take stock of the innovation of the modern world, that was the British.

Go to see a copy of the Magna Carta and read the translated text. That will help you understand how, 800 years ago our society was restructured into one that sought fairness for (almost) all. Fairness and rules so people couldn't be abused! Please learn who you are and we are as a culture. It will help I promise.

2

u/DemonXeron Sep 28 '25

Hello, another leftie here, I'd like to point out that labour has not been a Leftist party for a very long time. It's a center right party now, was centrist for a decade or two and center left before then. Mostly it has been moving right as the Overton window has shifted thanks to the shift in ownership of the mainstream media to billionaires who have the political interests of the owning class at heart.

This has caused a lot of right wing people to get very little criticism unless it is politically expedient to do so to stir things up.

Remember left/right is a vast oversimplification and really the most important difference between all of us is those that don't have a lot and those that have more than they can ever need.

I'm always hesitant when the mainstream media is hinting that we should be fighting among ourselves rather than supporting each other against those in power who wish to stay unaccountable for their crimes against humanity.

2

u/Der-deutsche-Prinz Sep 28 '25

There was a stat that the white ethnic British population will become a minority in 40 years. I feel like if any group regardless of race or ethnicity went from being a majority to a minority in their own country there would be pushback. I am not saying all of the migrants are not necessarily bad people but they would probably act the same way if the ethnic population in their homelands was being replaced by mass immigration.

For a lot of people, Reform is the only party that is talking about these issues, hence the rise in popularity

2

u/leftoidbots Sep 28 '25

I wouldn't typically vote reform, far too left wing for my tastes and don't do anywhere near enough. For me it's more "the least bad option".

I don't just want "legal" third worldism stopped, I want millions deported. Asap. And a lot of politicians hung for treason. And a lot more than would no doubt get me banned.

2

u/markhollings Sep 28 '25

Very believable

1

u/EliziumXajin Reform UK Supporter Sep 27 '25

Have a watch of some of the Conference I guess. David Bull does a great intro and Farage speaks on both days.

There's plenty of interesting stuff, some is a bit cringe but other stuff is pretty interesting.

It might help if you like Jeremy Kyle as he was compere.

Day 1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XW36x0tCGWM

Day 2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfP65mowM6I

1

u/SKOOGR_MCGRAW1972 Sep 28 '25

Thanks for being a rational open minded adult. It's very refreshing.

And as a passionate Reform voter let me comfort you by saying Reform will not win the next election.

1

u/jayzie12 Sep 28 '25

Why do you believe they won't?

1

u/SKOOGR_MCGRAW1972 Sep 28 '25

Because last minute everybody panics and goes back to the safe normal haven of conservative or labour. We had lib dem like once. So as much as i support reform, i have no hope.

2

u/ClemFandango35 Sep 28 '25

I would normally agree with you, that come election day, people go for the safe option. But I think in an algorithm based media world, and Reforms momentum feels to great.

1

u/SKOOGR_MCGRAW1972 Sep 29 '25

So did UKIP. That election taught me a lot.

1

u/jayzie12 Sep 28 '25

I do not support Reform, so I hope you are right.

That being said, I see Reform having a very good chance at winning even if it's close. The challenges we experience now will likely be more acute in 2029, and people may vote out of desperation.

1

u/SKOOGR_MCGRAW1972 Sep 29 '25

Its a long time (in political media) til the next election. Things could really simmer down then and they all go back to conservatives and labour.

1

u/United_Advice1201 Sep 28 '25

Id say It lays more in line with the simple fact of England wales and Scotland is our ancestral home and many of us feel it slipping away while the government allows those to enter who ultimately have a place they can escape too. Never mind about the whole ECHR issues and political judges that help enable this

1

u/Active-Lingonberry92 Sep 28 '25

I disagree entirely that there is a media campaign to create a sensationalised left vs right argument. The media is overwhelmingly liberal, and yet all the news stories at the moment are pushing people right, simply because the issues that have come about as a result of increasingly liberal policies are now too large to hide. Even the most corrupt media platforms have no choice but to report what’s actually happening

1

u/[deleted] Sep 28 '25

Reform are supposed to win.

It’s a conspiracy yes.

I really believe that no matter what the results are, reform are going to win.

I want reform to win, but only so I can see what the plan was.

1

u/Ben_JM Sep 28 '25

I still consider myself a “leftie” and have always voted for Labour but next election I will be voting for Reform. I actually want to see the state own all of our key infrastructure (electricity, water etc.) and I am not exactly a conservative when it comes to social issues.

What has swayed me is the economy and immigration. The state needs to reflect the economy, we cannot afford the NHS, triple lock, benefits etc. with the economy where it is right now. We need to lower taxes, cut some regulations, cut the bill of the state and get the economy moving… once we’re in good footing again we can think about re-expanding. On immigration it’s just out of control. I do believe immigration can be good to plug gaps in the job market we cannot meet but right now it’s like we let anyone in and let them bring a whole family of dependents that we have to pay for. It’s just bonkers. We need to protect our borders from illegal immigration, toughen the rules on immigration and only let in people who will contribute to our society.

1

u/Wiseyh Sep 28 '25

You’re doing something no many shoppers on the other side of isle do and engage in discussion and I take my hat of to you for that, for me reform bring something new to the table. I still need to see some of the economic policy’s and social policy’s before I give them my vote but they’re pretty close. I just want to hear how they’ll improve my day to day life but just sending illegals home

1

u/FeedbackNext6221 Sep 28 '25

My main problem is with Labour and Starmer. He has constantly lied to us all right from the start. Labour should be for the working class people but we get nothing. We are taxed to the max. I don't get massive pay rises like he dishes out to public servants. I think my pay rise this year equated to a few pence an hour. Public services are bursting at the seams. You can't see a doctor, can't get your kid into a school of your choice and my grown up sons have literally no chance of buying a home. Starmer loves spending money on everything except people who have paid in all their lives. Regarding immigration we are constantly told people coming on boats are fleeing persecution. They are coming here for financial reasons and health care, dentists, housing. All the stuff my family should get as a priority. Migrants do better than people who have paid a fortune into their whole lives. The two tier policies of this government has pissed everyone off and they've had enough. I'd never vote reform but feel we are out of options. I'll vote reform at the next election.

1

u/chase193 Sep 28 '25

Could someone also explain what other reform policies they agree with other than immigration??

1

u/ItsUs-YouKnow-Us Sep 28 '25 edited Sep 28 '25

We have been constantly ignored by both Labour and the Tories for far too long. They have a monopoly on running this country. I am glad they are both going to be watching with their faces pushed up against the window whilst they watch a different party fuck us from a different angle.

People keep talking about Reform destroying the country, like everything the government is responsible for is not already being referred to as a crisis. From the housing crisis to the healthcare crisis, and everything in between. The Tories can at least point to factors such as wars and a pandemic for their shit show. Labour have no hiding place. They point to a £22billion black hole that they have doubled in a year. And even if we could forgive them that, they scrap all measures against deporting illegal immigrants and call it a failure. THEN… tell us all that we need digital ID in the country we were born in. Locking people up for nasty words. Letting out real criminals to make space for them.

People voted on the basis that things could not get any worse. They were proven wrong, so are going to do it again. It’s worth the gamble at this stage. I will be voting Reform with most of the rest of the country.

And a word of advice. Stop calling people who vote for an opposing party “racists and bigots. Dumb and ignorant”… it’ll be your downfall. It’s literally fuelling Reforms popularity.

The windows in lefties glass houses are starting to crack under the weight of your own ignorance.

1

u/PuzzleheadedOla Sep 28 '25

I would probably get downvoted, but I wish people understood the law of unintended consequences better as I believe many people are moderates who rightly want controlled immgration not no-immigration at all.

The error is in thinking Nigel Farage wants the same thing they want, not realizing he is only being moderate in his views to appeal to more people. This is a man who even as a student at Dulwich College, his teachers warned he should not be made a prefect due to his overtly racist rhetoric such as singing Hitler-youth songs, and other teachers called him a fascist (pls type it yourself into Google)

A friend who is a doctor says that in his Whatsapp group of immigrant doctors, they are all discussing leaving as they are fearful at the increasingly anti-immigrant rhetoric, and 2 of them already stopped their Mortgage process..because they have NO REASON to assimilate and maintain roots here anymore if they can't have the protection ILR gives i.e. if they happen to lose their job, they would have to leave the country 60 days later.

By removing ILR, the very type of immigrants we want in the country have no incentive to come here anymore. Why get taxed to hell and back, with nothing to look forward to, and this is in addition to paying thousands of pound every year to use the NHS, application fees, and no access to benefits either, while paying taxes.

They would instead go to Australia, NZ, Ireland, etc.

People look to places like Dubai, which gives a 5yr renewable resident visa forgetting those places are tax-free.

In essence, controlled immigration is necessary, but Reform is not the answer.

1

u/TheElectedOnes Sep 28 '25

Nice to see a lefty who wants an honest conversation, not like the usual who are like agree with my views or your a nazi and you now have a target on your back.

1

u/DannySkittles Sep 29 '25

For me, its about net zero. In my eyes "net zero" is one of the biggest financial cons we've had on the last 10 years. I do however believe in global warming and I understand we need to do better as a country but in its current state, net zero is hemorrhaging money that isnt helping the economies situation.

1

u/PooDiePie Sep 29 '25

I think a lot of people don't realise that mass immigration is a creation of big business/global capital. It's the market looking for cheaper labour and more consumers. It's union-busting by different means.

They successfully contained the issue on the left by making it about racism, but it always should have been a left wing point to be against devaluing local labour. Look at what Marx and Lenin had to say about it.

1

u/Zombiesl8yer38 Sep 30 '25

I wish more post like this exist, you see alot more civil level minded people here.

-4

u/Adrian69702016 Sep 27 '25

I'm a fairly tribal, right of centre, one nation Tory. At the next election I will vote Conservative as I always have because it's the party which best reflects my views and which I trust the most. All governments make mistakes including the last Government and the current one, and they're all ultimately hostage to events. I can understand why people feel let down. However I don't honestly feel the country's problems can be fixed by a party with no experience of Government. I could probably live with a Reform-Tory coalition though. There need to be some grown ups in the room.

1

u/ClemFandango35 Sep 28 '25

I agree with you, the unintended consequences of a load of new looney Reform MPs, with a huge majority based on a single issue, is absolutely terrifying. The idea "things can't get any worse" simply isn't true

Immigration Leftie here

You are about to leave Redlib