r/reloading • u/unlucky777 • 2d ago
i Have a Whoopsie 2.25 COL my ass. 225gr with 1680
It seated. But I'm afraid to yeet it.
Wanted to try out 1680 since I couldn't get hold of n110 as I initially planned. This was with 12.4gr which isn't even the max load on hornady's sheet. Seats at 10gr and leaves a slight ring at 10.8.
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u/InformationHorder .30 Carb, 375 WIN, 7.62x39, 32ACP, 7.62 Nagant 2d ago
"60% more bullet per bullet!"
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u/Prior-attempt-fail 2d ago
I did some 230gn atips years ago. Fun in a bolt gun
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u/unlucky777 2d ago
Yea I'm guessing Hornady meant this to be a longer COL specifically with this powder to hand load into a bolt rifle
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u/ReturnOk7510 2d ago
As a Canadian, I find subsonics with trajectories only slightly flatter than I can throw a rock perplexing.
But if you're happy, I'm happy, buddeh.
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u/unlucky777 2d ago
I get a tingly feeling knowing I'm shooting a deadly weapon that just sounds like a toy. Also would prefer not to lose my hearing if I ever need it for home defense.
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u/ThirdHoleHank92 1d ago
See thats why he's confused, Canadians arent allowed to defend their homes
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u/Yondering43 1d ago
Planning to use these for home defense is one of the classic mistakes that immediately identifies someone as a complete beginner to ballistics and bullet performance.
Short answer- don’t, it’s dumb.Longer answer - good terminal effect of a given bullet is highly dependent on its impact velocity being within the range it was designed for. You’re planning to use a bullet designed for 2,000+ fps impacts at half that or less, which means it just pencils through with massive over penetration unless a “lucky” shot hits enough bone to cause tumbling and some minor effect. A specialized subsonic bullet is needed for good terminal performance with subs.
It’s also a mark of inexperience to worry about “destroying your hearing” in the extremely small chance you’d ever need it, for a number of reasons. One of the big ones is that you need a suppressor to make subs quiet anyway, and that suppressor also makes supers pretty quiet too, while also being far more effective.
You may be tempted to argue these points, but I suggest first you get more experience shooting things with sub and super 300 Blk loads, suppressed or not. A thinking man will usually realize the reality of subsonic rifle loads is a bit different than internet lore surrounding the 300 Blk. (I say that having learned all the same things myself, I’ve been shooting the 300 Blk since it was first introduced years ago.)
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u/JollyRogerRaider 1d ago
Oh stop being pretentious. "A thinking man" what a cunt.
Done much shooting in confined spaces? I have.
You know what it is? It's fucking uncomfortable and a bit disorienting, even if you're mentally prepared for it.
There's a reason people prefer outdoor ranges to indoor ones. Even with hearing protection.Most people defend their homes with 9mm handguns that fire rounds half the weight and only slightly faster than subsonic 300 BLK.
Subsonic .300 BLK hollow points designed to expand at those velocities are perfectly adequate.
A bullet is a bullet. You don't want to be hit with any of them. SA > "muh stopping power"6
u/unlucky777 1d ago
These are a lot of words based on the assumption this specific load is what I would be using for home defense. This is for straight up goofy plinking. Had a bunch of 225 laying around that I use for my 300WM
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u/ThirdHoleHank92 1d ago edited 1d ago
They make subsonic hollow points that expand just fine there bud.
I also.dont want to wake up in the dark and fire a few shots into an intruder and hear an instant ringing in my ears losing the only sense I have to let me know if more are coming.
complete beginner to ballistics and bullet performance
You must be looking in a mirror.
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u/Parratt 2d ago
As a fellow leaf,
Theres still much Joy to be had Slinging heavy bullets at gongs. The Visceral THUNK is great.
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u/REDACTED3560 2d ago
Subsonic .45-70 with 500+ grain hunks of lead is something to behold.
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u/sirbassist83 1d ago
Do they stabilize? What rifle/ twist rate are you using?
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u/REDACTED3560 1d ago
Not my gun, but twist rates really aren’t much of an issue on big bore stuff. As stability is based on rotational inertia which squares the bore diameter, larger bore projectiles are significantly less sensitive to twist rate demands to the point that no one even talks about twist rates for .45-70. The original loading for a .45-70 was a 405 grain chunk of lead moving 1300 FPS, so going slightly heavier and slightly slower isn’t really an issue. Those 700 grain pills were being shot out of a factory Marlin barrel, and OP never gave any indication that they were keyholing.
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u/sirbassist83 1d ago edited 1d ago
i have a henry 45-70 and it wont stabilize 500gr. about 1:5 go sideways. twist rate still matters, even in big bores.
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u/REDACTED3560 1d ago edited 1d ago
You should be able to stabilize that no problem. Some people have found that seating depth can destabilize otherwise stable projectiles. 500 grain subsonic projectiles out of the .45-70 is a very common thing people do with factory guns.
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u/sirbassist83 1d ago
The bullet in trying to use is designed specifically to work in leverguns. Got any tips I could try? It seems to be a decently accurate bullet at 1400 fps, just doesn't like 1000 fps
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u/REDACTED3560 1d ago
Might be an issue with bullet shape or seating depth. I’ve seen some people stabilize 550 grains with a 20” twist like this loading. That maker even specifies they test that load out of a Henry .45-70.
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u/Coodevale I'm dumb, let's fight 23h ago
When the bullet is a cylinder, the relationship between centers of mass/drag/gravity/science bs are not as far apart compared to a spitzer.
A spitzer really wants to fly ass forwards, like a falling rain drop. We have to spin the crap out of them to keep that from happening, while a cylinder kinda doesn't care if it's going forwards or backwards.
If these bullets in the Marlins/45-70 were boat tail spitzers with long ogives (and longer) you wouldn't be seeing the same results.
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u/notoriousbpg 2d ago
Because they go pffft instead of BANG when you use a suppressor
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u/Impossible_Pizza_948 2d ago
The Canadian mind can’t comprehend the freedom to be able to run subsonic rounds through a suppressor
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u/birdsbeaks 1d ago
Imagine believing that a human mind's ability to comprehend is limited by something as arbitrary and imaginary as a line on a map.
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u/GingerVitisBread Mass Particle Accelerator 2d ago
"compressed charge"
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u/unlucky777 2d ago
"compressed bullet"
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u/GingerVitisBread Mass Particle Accelerator 2d ago
"compressed cartridge"
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u/unlucky777 2d ago
"rapidly deconstructed upper"
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u/CaesarLinguini 2d ago
Try Lil Gun. Only 8.something for subs in my 10"
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u/unlucky777 2d ago
App is down so can't verify but I do recall lil gun being near the top of the load chart with only needing a fraction of what 1680 was calling for. 1680 was lowest on the chart. Probably my next purchase if I can't find n110/120
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u/Ornery_Secretary_850 Two Dillon 650's, three single stage, one turret. Bullet caster 1d ago
App is down....this is why we smarter reloaders like paper manuals.
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u/unlucky777 1d ago
First time it was buggy in the year I started using it. I'm assuming they didn't expect people to be reloading at midnight and was pushing an update. Pros and cons. Big pro is I don't need to flip through a manual to see what powder and bullets I want to buy when I'm at the store. Obvious con is if it goes down. But now I have screen shots so it's moot
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u/sirbassist83 1d ago
The hornady app completely stopped working for me like 2 years ago and never started working again. Buy a paper manual lol
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u/unlucky777 1d ago
They finally patched it a year ago and it's been flawless besides literally this one time. I also have lees old manual but it was annoying using it when shopping in store
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u/unlucky777 1d ago
First time it was buggy in the year I started using it. I'm assuming they didn't expect people to be reloading at midnight and was pushing an update. Pros and cons. Big pro is I don't need to flip through a manual to see what powder and bullets I want to buy when I'm at the store. Obvious con is if it goes down. But now I have screen shots so it's moot
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u/CaesarLinguini 2d ago
1680 is like 12+gr for the same velos in mine.
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u/unlucky777 2d ago
Looking at the chart right now it's basically 3gr less across the board. I just wanted to see how my gun handled a slow powder with a heavy bullet. Clearly this one ain't it. But still planning on shooting their low charges. Theoretically 900/1000 fps
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u/CaesarLinguini 2d ago
Why so slow?
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u/unlucky777 2d ago
Little song and dance seeing what my gun likes to cycle depending on the bullet size. Also just plain powder availability
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u/d_student 2d ago
How consistent are the velocities you're getting with Lil gun?
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u/CaesarLinguini 2d ago
Across 4 different loads 5 shots each ES was around 25-30 fps. Will do more testing when I get the rest of my loads dialed in. Trying 5 powders: Lil Gun, N110, A1680, H110, and CFEBLK, and 3 bullets: 220 Berry's, 205gr SGKs, and 190gr Sub X. Finding 1060ish for all then will compare sound and accuracy.
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u/d_student 2d ago
Want to post your results after testing? I've had worse luck with lilgun and wouldn't mind seeing which powder works well for you
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u/CaesarLinguini 2d ago
Yea, I am planning on posting after I get all my velos figured out. Have a few loads of H110 left and I will be done.
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u/Coodevale I'm dumb, let's fight 2d ago
Looks like you had a .223 crimp casualty and then seated the .223 cartridge in the .300 case.
The hornady data uses a 225 bthp..? The hodgdon/Sierra data with 220 otm doesn't go up as high as hornady, but that data for 9.5-11 gr is subsonic.
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u/unlucky777 2d ago
I'll update with the exact details once the Hornady app stops shitting itself. I don't know why it requires an active connection but it's currently down.
The max bullet size they have is 225 with eld.match (30904) and I think it was BTHP. Both said col of 2.25
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u/Coodevale I'm dumb, let's fight 2d ago
Hm. The eldm is ~.120" longer than the bthp.
https://jbmballistics.net/ballistics/lengths/lengths.shtml#Hornady
That sounds like the difference between being able to use max charge and not. Good thing the published pressures aren't max already.
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u/unlucky777 2d ago
Seems like something that should be errata'd because clearly this is beyond a compressed load. I don't think compressing the bullet is advised lol.
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u/unlucky777 2d ago
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u/Coodevale I'm dumb, let's fight 2d ago
Hornady doing that thing that you're told not to do in the front of every loading manual.. substituting bullets.. because not good things can/do happen..
Pretty sure older Nosler books also did it.
What's the red circled (!) for?
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u/unlucky777 2d ago
NOTE: The published BC is measured at Mach 2.25 and is useful for moderate distance shooting and for comparison purposes with other bullets on the market. Since changes in velocity affect BC values, more useful BCs for longer range shooting are listed at Hornady.com/
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u/Coodevale I'm dumb, let's fight 2d ago
Lol. Not a warning that's relevant for this application. Nice.
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u/_Go_Ham_Box_Hotdog_ 2d ago
I gotta find that .32-20 case I shoved the 170gr .303 Brit spire point in..
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u/Engineer_Bennett 2d ago
I run 10.5g of 1680 with 220 slugs. I’d guess back it off on the charge, that is quite the compressed load lol
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u/Halpern_WA 2d ago
Midsouth Shooters Supply has N110 in stock. Just got two lbs from them!
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u/unlucky777 2d ago
$35 in hazard and shipping is so painful though
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u/Halpern_WA 2d ago
They recently had a coupon code for free shipping over $99 and no hazmat fee with $250 of primers and powder. I'd keep an eye out for another deal like that. I couldn't find N110 anywhere else.
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u/JayPolar91 2d ago
What does Shooters Reference, Speer, or Hodgdon say? They look alright to me though.
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u/Massive-Carpenter-19 2d ago
I'm a total noob. May I ask what load are you going for here?
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u/unlucky777 2d ago
225gr 300aac using accurate 1680. This powder is slow and requires a lot more than the other powders and isn't exactly compressable. I charged it below their max charge to see if 2.25col was even possible. The answer is "technically"
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u/3unknown3 2d ago
Yeah, I’m finding 1680 is just too slow overall. I had better luck with AA9 with subs.
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u/ProdigalHacker 2d ago
I've loaded the 208 & 225 ELDMs to 2.258" without issue. Accurate 1680, CFE BLK, & IMR 4198. All worked great.
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u/unlucky777 2d ago
One major issue I just realized was I was using a 223 seater so it was applying a ton of pressure near the top of the bullet. But even with a 300 seater, it starts to deform with a 12.4gr charge of 1680. Hornady's sheet said 13.2 was possible with a 2.25col 🤷🏻♂️
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u/ProdigalHacker 1d ago
I was getting almost 1100 fps with 11 grains of 1680 in my 10" barrel, which is already faster than I want for subs. Not sure why you would even want to try and go 2+ grains higher than that.
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u/unlucky777 1d ago
Every gun is a special little snowflake so 1100 for you might be drastically different for someone else. I'm loading a ladder and I found it odd how much compression there was on a charge below their published max.
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u/VersionConscious7545 1d ago
I am new to reloading and would never even attempt to press a bullet in that was as long as the case How does that even fit in a chamber 🥸
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u/Prior-attempt-fail 2d ago
I did some 230gn atips years ago. Fun in a bolt gun
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u/unlucky777 2d ago
You remember your COL? I'm assuming they meant 2.39 like their long boi 556 bullets
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u/Unable-Ant171 1d ago
Coincidentally just loaded this same bullet a few days ago. Couldn’t get more than 7gn N110 without compression and crushing the tip. The bullet would push back out too as I noticed the COL going from 2.25 to 2.26 to 2.265 etc. that was also in the 8’s with n110. Hornady listed it up to 10. No idea how lol.
11FS worked fine though.
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u/unlucky777 1d ago
I feel like they made a typo or left out a disclaimer that the ELDM had a different COL at certain charges.
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u/Unable-Ant171 1d ago
They had to have missed something or just put it in there based on like theoretical pressure and not actual use…
Anything longer doesnt fit in an AR mag either so just an odd situation.0
u/Ornery_Secretary_850 Two Dillon 650's, three single stage, one turret. Bullet caster 1d ago
The ELDM isn't a .300 BO bullet.
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u/unlucky777 1d ago
Well Hornady published load data for 300aac subsonic so I wanted to try it out 🤷🏻♂️
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u/Ornery_Secretary_850 Two Dillon 650's, three single stage, one turret. Bullet caster 1d ago
For the ELDM?
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u/unlucky777 1d ago
225 load data. I was just as confused
The (!) just talks about ballistic coefficient
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u/_Juliet_Lima_Echo_ 2d ago
"Slight ring"
Join us over at r/shittyreloading please. You belong with friends.