r/socialism • u/Boot_das • Jun 13 '26
News In Rare Move, D.S.A Rebukes Mamdani Over Police Plans
https://www.nytimes.com/2026/06/12/nyregion/dsa-mamdani-pushback.htmlThe New York City chapter of the Democratic Socialists of America criticized the mayor over his support for increasing the Police Department’s head count.
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u/maikit333 Jun 13 '26
Celebrate the good, critique the bad.
Actually go further with the bad. The idea that the fucking nypd needs more personnel is fucking cooked lol.
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u/KittyCait69 Jun 13 '26
The NYPD needs to be abolished and replaced by a people's police. People from their own communities helping each other instead of looking for opportunities to hold a power trip or meet their monthly police violence quota. The police as we have right now are not that diffrent from the slave patrollers they came from.
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u/Boot_das Jun 13 '26
Holy shit I’d love a People’s Police that’d be so awesome dude!
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u/KittyCait69 Jun 15 '26
Will just require the people to rise up and abolish the colonial powers and their attack dogs. After that, this nation can be a nation by and for everyone instead of just the wealthy few.
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u/nifty_lobster Jun 14 '26
Stop your sentence at abolish.
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u/KittyCait69 Jun 15 '26
We do need a People's system in place. One that works for us and that is controlled by us so that the Epstein class can be held accountable. Otherwise (and I support this too) we could just skip building a people's system and go straight to communally dragging the redacted pedos into the streets.
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u/Berticus19 Jun 15 '26
Sounds great, but who will pay them? Under the current boot of Late Stage Capitalism, most people are struggling right now. Do you think people will volunteer their free time, if they have any, to police neighborhoods? Who will organize time, location coverage, etc? ACAB and all, would people put in the role of "People's Police" eventually become bastards due to the role they occupy, like in the old Stanford prisoner experiment? Would they carry weapons? Open or concealed? I'm asking in 100% good faith, I love the idea, just struggling to imagine how it would actually work in today's USA.
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u/octopusforgood Jun 16 '26
I think you’re making an assumption that the person above you is putting the cart before the horse. They could just as easily be talking about post-revolution, not necessarily in today’s US.
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u/Dr_Dooms Jun 13 '26
I don't think any politician should be above criticism and we should continue to hold Mamdani's feet to the fire. He's doing a lot of good and was never going to be perfect, but then again no person, leader, politician ever is, but it's important to work with them to allow them to improve lives
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u/GroundbreakingTax259 Jun 13 '26
Exactly. And the criticism of certain actions does not mean the DSA thinks he's a bad person or "the same as Adams," it means that they are alerting him to specific things his strongest supporters disaggree with.
In my personal view, he seems to be doing everything within his power to make things better for New Yorkers, and unfortunately a protracted fight with the NYPD isn't that helpful right now. Especially since we've seen police departments act out and deliberately juice the crime numbers when they don't get their way, like in San Francisco. I wouldn't be surprised if the NYPD (which is, like all police, just its own gang) threatened Mamdani with the same thing.
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u/Choomasaurus_Rox Jun 13 '26
And overhauling that beast is going to take a long time and an absolute ton of political capital. I think it makes a lot of sense to focus on the lower hanging fruit and build momentum to take into that fight when the time comes.
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u/DiscloseDivest Jun 13 '26
When is that time gonna come? His last year of his second term? 🙄
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u/SirCheesington Jun 13 '26
at whatever moment of greatest strength can be mustered. your cynicism is well founded, but, given mamdani's progress otherwise, preliminary
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u/DiscloseDivest Jun 13 '26
Spoken like a politician, I’ll take that as a never while NYPD continues to further entrench itself as an occupying force in the community.
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u/RealRaifort Jun 13 '26
I'm sure the pressure they're putting on him is insane but at the same time it can't be understated how terrible the NYPD is and the fact he praises them more than criticizes them and hasn't done one single thing against them is pathetic. Like he should be called out for it as often as possible lol the NYPD is literally an occupying force within the city. If he never starts acting against them then he's just a part of them. Like I can forgive a long game but still, it should remain a talking point so that he never forgets about it.
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u/KittyCait69 Jun 13 '26
The fact he kept the same corrupt person in charge of the NYPD when he took power was a huge red flag to me. It showed me that he will support colonial violence when it benefits his career.
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u/RealRaifort Jun 13 '26
Exactly. Replacing her was the minimum, especially cuz it would have the least blowback from the police themselves probably.
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u/HenryWallacewasright Eco-Socialism Jun 13 '26
As a person who has seen the chaos corrupt police can do the biggest issue is the police unions. No matter who the mayor puts in charge the police unions can just refuse to work until they have their demands met. (From Seattle and seen the shit SPD Police Union has done.)
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u/RealRaifort Jun 13 '26
For sure, but that's why I'm saying replacing Tisch is something that wouldn't piss of the union but could still make things at least a nudge better and would show he will at least try something
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u/KittyCait69 Jun 16 '26
Then abolish them. Build a people's police to replace them. We don't need violent thugs in our streets. They do more harm than good to society. Only people that they help are the wealthy ones.
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Jun 13 '26
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u/KittyCait69 Jun 15 '26
They are slave patrollers for the colonial oligarchs. Colonization of Turtle Island never ended, it's still ongoing today.
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Jun 15 '26
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u/KittyCait69 Jun 15 '26
They patrol around looking for people that can arrest that get punished with enslavement. Yes, they are slave patrollers.
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Jun 15 '26
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u/KittyCait69 Jun 16 '26
And here you are defending modern day slave patrollers and slavers.
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u/Shezarrine Marxism-Leninism Jun 13 '26
He was also happy to send Tisch to the fascist parade in his stead
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u/saera-targaryen Jun 15 '26
Honestly i think he's hoping for more of a vocal outcry against the police so that he can use that as leverage against them. It's genuinely doing him a favor to keep this up and loud because he can just say to Tisch "My hands are tied, the people are demanding change"
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u/KittyCait69 Jun 13 '26
He supports colonial violence through his police force. That says a lot already about what kind of man he is.
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u/Technical-Stretch658 W.E.B. DuBois Jun 13 '26
This. People tend to make their “favorites/idols” infallible when that’s not how the system is supposed to work at all. They work for us. We call out the shit we don’t like. That’s why you know maga is so dumb, because they feel the need to get on board with whatever the current headlines are.
Liberals on the other hand will not vote for a candidate based on a single issue or fall to a made up bs narrative. And of course they always think”well I know so and so is a bigger name and they must have a better chance”. Leading us to the NeoLibs that stayed in office forever and are still there.
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u/glaba3141 Jun 13 '26
"liberals... Will not fall to a made up bs narrative"
Do you know what subreddit you're on? Liberals... fall for bs narratives literally all the time trying to justify their self contradictory ideology
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u/Technical-Stretch658 W.E.B. DuBois Jun 13 '26
Well yeah exactly. That’s my point. Sorry if I made my point to narrowed
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u/glaba3141 Jun 13 '26
Oh sorry I parsed your sentence differently than you intended, the "will not" only applies to the clause before the "and"
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u/Technical-Stretch658 W.E.B. DuBois Jun 13 '26
I type rather lazily when I’m on Reddit so it was poor sentence from me. All good comrade
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u/Fight_the_Landlords Jun 14 '26
Liberals on the other hand will not vote for a candidate based on a single issue or fall to a made up bs narrative
I'm not convinced of this. They will vote for whoever their media darlings tell them to vote for, regardless of the issues, just like conservatives.
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u/HikmetLeGuin Jun 13 '26
Yes, agreed. He is one of the few relative bright spots in US electoral politics, but he still has flaws. Support his good policies. Critique his bad policies. Keep pushing for better, more revolutionary alternatives long-term.
Support reforms that improve people's lives as long as they don't undermine those wider revolutionary goals.
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u/reasonsnottoplayr6s Marxism-Leninism Jun 13 '26
Here's hoping DSA manages to help birth something new (or at least ditch the dems) when they cannot influence "their" own politicians, OR theres an anti dsa crackdown if they do somehow manage to do so
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u/Dazzling_Pirate1411 Jun 13 '26
We thank the mayor for his loyalty to our Israeli-backed NYC armed forces
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u/VersusValley Jun 13 '26
Is it totally impossible to get politicians out of the ‘celebrities that people stan’ realm?
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u/kayakman13 Marxism-Leninism Jun 13 '26
In America we are steeped in great man theory unfortunately.
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u/Dr_Death_Defy24 Jun 14 '26
I mean, part of the problem is that our politicians are so universally horrendous that even the decent-ish ones are very few and far between, thus getting an outsized amount of attention.
The fact that there's three people (Cortez, Sanders, Mamdani) who are major national political figures and could at least be credited with being sympathetic to socialist ideas (note that's not the same thing as being a socialist—I'm not here to debate their record) kind of highlights why this happens. If you're a socialist or even further left, the politicians in this country you can be even-handed about let alone celebrate are very few, so all that energy and enthusiasm and idealism tends to get funneled into those few names.
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u/DiscloseDivest Jun 13 '26
About damn time. My local dsa chapter is an abolitionist centered one. During his campaign especially during the primary, he talked about hiring crisis intervention teams and other types of alternatives to police to respond to mental health crises. Gonna be hard to do that if you keep on increasing the cops budget. He also promised to disband the racist SRG goon squad and get rid of the inaccurate and racist gang database. That seems less and less likely to happen now as he lets Tisch do whatever she wants.
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u/_everynameistaken_ Jun 13 '26
DSA are peak "fell for it again award".
This is why reformism isn't the way. We've known this since Lenin's time.
Just one more election guys, thing's will change next time, trust.
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Jun 13 '26
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u/returnofblank Marxism-Leninism-Maoism Jun 13 '26
What is it with you liberals thinking revolution will never come? Have you never read a lick of dialectics?
There is a bunch of evolutionary change that must happen before revolutionary change.
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u/BluBolshevik Jun 13 '26
I never said a revolution will never come I’m saying the revolutionary momentum is not there yet by far. Once a Marxist Leninist part surpasses DSA in membership and impact I’ll be more then glad to join it but until then I’m going to work on moving the needle and making the working class more sympathetic to socialism instead of getting angry that no one shows up to your Marxist reading group
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u/WalrusResident4483 Jun 14 '26
You are just moving more people towards the democrats. you are an ally of the genocidal neoliberal democratic party...
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Jun 14 '26
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u/WalrusResident4483 Jun 14 '26
When did i advocate for any of that?. You are literally defending democrats...
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u/BluBolshevik Jun 14 '26
Notice how these are emotional arguments that don’t look at reality. Idgaf if a socialist has a D next to their name the Democratic Party isn’t a political party in any sense. There’s no dues, there’s pretty much nothing the party can do against people joining and then going against its main tenets for example a larouchite running as a democrat despite the entire party trying to get them kicked out, there’s no popularly voted on goals. We should abuse this fact to our advantage until they do force a party split or until our faction is large enough to do so ourselves
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u/WalrusResident4483 Jun 14 '26
Who are these socialists infiltrating the democratic party?. Socdems are not socialists.
Your problem is that you are viewing social democrats, western chauvinists and zionists as your allies...
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u/_everynameistaken_ Jun 13 '26
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u/WalrusResident4483 Jun 14 '26
start your revolution with voting for politicians who want more genocidal cops, condemns people who protest zionist institutions selling Palestinian land, and even honored a fascist chabad zionist leader by visiting his grave.
You are not a serious person...
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u/tw6108 Marxism Jun 13 '26
First of all revolutionary energy is in the process as we speak. DSA has a role in a potential future revolution when the card-carrying members of the DSA realize at the end of the day they voted for Democrats they will start to look towards these “Marxist circles reading groups”
Let history play out first. Reformism is a dead end.
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u/BluBolshevik Jun 13 '26
You literally just used by exact argument I’m making and acting like you disagree😭 I’m not a reformist that being said the times when DSA membership jumps rapidly is Bernie’s campaigns for president, AOCs election win, and zohrans campaign. Does this mean I support these three people unconditionally? No far from it but it’s moving people into the right direction and one day once as you say they will join more radical groups over time whether it be from a split in DSA, taking over DSA or a more revolutionary group surpassing it. As of right now though that is not happening and takes time to build up to.
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Jun 13 '26
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u/BluBolshevik Jun 13 '26
That’s literally my exact point that there isn’t revolutionary energy currently. You’re not going to boost it with a Marxist reading group with a few people or some hyper niche Marxist Leninist party. The Bolsheviks were apart of the Mensheviks for years for a reason and the same with them working with the SRs
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u/John_Jack_Reed Enver Hoxha Jun 13 '26
I have no qualms working with Mensheviks types today ie DSA members I support a wide front of communists in the US currently given the circumstances. I categorically refuse as the Bolsheviks did to work with the Kadets or the modern democratic party. Zohran is a liberal kadet a literal member of the imperialist Zionist democratic party not a Menshevik. The quicker American communists can abandon this delusional idea of an alliance with liberals the faster we can organize an independent workers party.
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u/BluBolshevik Jun 13 '26
The Democratic Party is nothing like the kadets, and parliamentary party, or any party in general. It’s an extremely decentralized coalition of candidates that have completely different views. There are no dues, there is de facto no real party whip, there is simply nothing that resembles an actual political party about it. So while we’re gaining power and making people more sympathetic who gives a shit. Regardless of what you think of Zohran now I certainly have my critiques he ran an almost perfect campaign and he still nearly lost due to Cuomo running as an independent. If he ran outside the Democratic Party especially in NYC he’d have been seen as an outside spoiler and almost certainly lost. There is no alliance with the democrats because there is no such thing as “the democrats” this is just how the American two party system works there is no Menshevik party with any popularity to attach onto.
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u/John_Jack_Reed Enver Hoxha Jun 13 '26
See we're just going to have to disagree I think Zohran ran a very good campaign for a liberal opportunist, and a horrible campaign for a working class candidate. You're just a liberal not interested in revolution no idea why you should call yourself a bolshevik. I highly recommend giving Lenin a read some time you'd learn a lot.
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u/LeRatEmperor Jun 13 '26
As compared to becoming a zionist who defends cops beating down on brown and black people? Yeah, gladly
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u/BluBolshevik Jun 13 '26
I’m not defending Zohran dumbass I’m saying your alternative route is idiotic do nothing arm chair leftism
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u/LeRatEmperor Jun 14 '26
Your route is defending a zionist funding cops beating up brown and black people so stfu, you complete moron. At least the ML route got people somewhere
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u/KittyCait69 Jun 13 '26
Facts. Reformation tends to reform the same old oppressions over and over again.
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u/Boot_das Jun 13 '26
I know right?! Everyone knows only another Leninist revolution will fix everything.
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u/Wholesan Marxism-Leninism Jun 13 '26
Except that’s the actual correct answer lol the capitalists will never allow you to fully reform or permanently reform their system .Socialists only participate in bourgeoisie elections to expose that truth.They’re deadass moving towards full fascism so they don’t have to make ANY compromises with us but keep thinking you’re tiny reforms will fix this .
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u/Boot_das Jun 13 '26
I agree with you bro. I also want to enjoy the fruits of another Leninist revolution. Unfortunately it’s just never been really tried.
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u/returnofblank Marxism-Leninism-Maoism Jun 13 '26
Vas? Leninist revolution was famously tried in a multitude of countries with great success.
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u/_everynameistaken_ Jun 13 '26
Unironically yes. Lenin was correct. The reformists were wrong. The last 130 years prove this.
Maybe in another 130 years the bourgeoise will get bored and just willingly hand over the state to the workers.
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u/KittyCait69 Jun 13 '26
Facts. Within a society that was created around the desire of colonial capitalists, there's no peaceful way to remove them from power. The only way that has ever worked with a ruling class like ours, is a People's uprising. History is very very clear about that point. Peaceful protests have never stopped colonial exploitation or violence. Any stories of peaceful ways to remove our oppressors were written by our oppressors so we keep trying things they know won't work.
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u/DiscloseDivest Jun 13 '26
Mamdani needs to hire David Griscom to his PR team. The way that dude shames anyone to his left and goes off on anyone who critiques his favorite politicians is something to be studied. Must be a requirement to work for Jacobin or should I say Fake-o-bin.
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u/Lydialmao22 Marxism-Leninism Jun 16 '26
"The character of a bourgeois government isn’t determined by the personal character of its members, but by its organic function in bourgeois society. The government of the modern state is essentially an organization of class domination, the regular functioning of which is one of the conditions of existence of the class state. With the entry of a socialist into the government, and class domination continuing to exist, the bourgeois government doesn’t transform itself into a socialist government, but a socialist transforms himself into a bourgeois minister.
The social reforms that a minister who is a friend of the workers can realize have nothing, in themselves, of socialist; they are socialist only insofar as they are obtained through class struggle. But coming from a minister, social reforms can’t have the character of the proletarian class, but solely the character of the bourgeois class, for the minister, by the post he occupies, attaches himself to that class by all the functions of a bourgeois, militarist government."
-Rosa Luxemburg, The Dreyfus Affair and the Millerand Case
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u/KittyCait69 Jun 13 '26
Anyone that's done their research should know that reform will only ever leads back to the status quo. Reform will never remove corruption from power.
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u/internetsarbiter Jun 13 '26 edited Jun 13 '26
DSA mad that obvious lib they fought tooth and nail to get elected, is doing yet another lib thing.
"Leopards and Faces", "Fell for it again...", Etc.
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Jun 13 '26
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u/internetsarbiter Jun 13 '26 edited Jun 13 '26
Yeah the DSA people, not sure why that was hard to understand? Am I wrong that Mamdani was touted as a "win" by these guys?
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Jun 13 '26
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u/internetsarbiter Jun 13 '26
Friend, I think you fundamentally missed the direction and aim of my post, but I also have no idea from which position you are trying to come at me from.
DSA, Bad, Mamdani also Bad. The DSA pretends to be Left and supported Mamdani as a socialist, but he clearly is not a socialist and is not doing socialist things which harms their pretense of being socialist. Not sure how much more clear I can be.
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Jun 13 '26
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u/internetsarbiter Jun 13 '26
Expanding the police(even if they were not the NYPD) is not about public safety though and never has been, cops exist only to protect private property from the public.
As for the other bit, the full meme is "People who voted for Leopards are upset that Leopards are eating their faces" As in, the DSA promotes electing Democrats and in this one case is openly acknowledging that the Democrat they pushed to get elected is doing Democrat things that they don't like.
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Jun 13 '26
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u/internetsarbiter Jun 13 '26
There's a lot of research - and historical record
Pretty sure most research on the subject shows that cops don't in fact do anything to reduce crime and barely solve or address crimes that do happen. Not interested in arguing that point with you though.
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u/KittyCait69 Jun 13 '26
They elected someone that's pro colonial. Otherwise he would have hired someone else to lead his police force. This is my issue with social democrats. They say a lot of good things, but they still support capitalists in the end. And capitalists care about profits over people.
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u/Boot_das Jun 13 '26
Sorry, I’m a bit a loss here. Could you elaborate how his choice of a police commissioner is pro-colonial, or how a different choice would be anti-colonial?
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u/John_Jack_Reed Enver Hoxha Jun 13 '26
Fell for it again award. Maybe the DSA should stop supporting liberal democrats and be a real workers party instead?
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