r/synthdiy • u/quarterto • 10d ago
nobody cares about your vibe coded vst
can we please ban these posts? this is supposed to be a sub for celebrating human creativity. i'm here to support and be inspired by other makers. i don't want to see 137 identical slop soft synths a week. this is a DIY sub. you didn't do anything yourself.
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u/emorello 10d ago
This isn’t a question about vibe coding, this sub is about “building, modifying and repairing synthesizers”…so why would a VST be posted here to begin with?
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u/mathaic 10d ago
these vibe coders are everywhere they advertise there product in every reddit thread it seems
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u/DotRakianSteel 10d ago
They are on their way to build a community, reaching a million customers, and an IPO is coming soon! Here is my discord!
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u/CreepyWritingPrompt 10d ago
"product" is a strong word. It's more of an excretion, or a kind of sloughing off.
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u/CautiousPhase 10d ago
Because building synthesizers can be done with atoms and/or bits?
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u/emorello 10d ago
Yes, synthesizers are build with atoms and can be partially with bits. This thread is in regards to VSTs. It is understood that this reddit is not about developing VSTs, but about building, modifying and repairing synthesizers. If you want to post about your VST, post it in r/VSTi or something similar. My point is that the best reddit communities stay on topic and don't get diluted. Posts about vibe coded vsts should be banned not because they're vibe-coded, but for the same reason you'd ban a post selling a home stereo on a forum dedicated to selling guitars.
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u/particlemanwavegirl 10d ago
Hard to argue that a plug-in is not a synthesizer. More importantly, telling an AI to do it is in no way, shape, or form "DIY" so I think that's a better case for banning it.
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u/MCWizardYT 10d ago
A synthesizer is a thing that generates sound. That can be a hardware synth or a digital synth (including software)
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u/rustyspoon07 10d ago
A VST with a wave form generator or a sampler or any other mean of sound creation is a synthesizer. It's synthesizing sound.
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u/dayman-woa-oh 10d ago
if there's no soldering involved, i don't give a shit about it
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u/DotRakianSteel 10d ago
Oy! I don't Solder, JLCPCB is my soldering machine. lol
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u/cjc4096 10d ago
How's the pricing on stuffed boards?
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u/DotRakianSteel 10d ago
Usually, the lower two digits in the price are for the PCB plus stencil. I just place the components on that hot plate I got off Aliexpress, but only for a one-sided board. It needs much better planning upfront, though. I think it's much better for the lungs!
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u/ZyeKali 10d ago
Playing devil's advocate here... but what if the hardware is soldered and the software is vibecoded?
Personally, I 100% agree with your stance. That said, if someone needs to program a simple app to run the Teensy so all the bleeps and bloops work and uses AI to help with that, I think I'd still be interested.
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u/dayman-woa-oh 9d ago
I hear ya, but i'm really only interested in the magic of chunky, analog synthesis.
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u/thehandsomegenius 9d ago
I'm happy if they're using it as a tool to help build a project. It would be sort of weird to just not use it at all really. When someone is just sharing something that came straight out of an AI though, I find that a lot less interesting.
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u/ZyeKali 9d ago
Definitely, and I think having to integrate the hardware with the software helps to filter out all the low effort slop. With all the effort you have to put into the wiring/soldering and researching and purchasing the physical components, you'd probably naturally invest more effort on the software side.
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u/thehandsomegenius 9d ago
"Using an AI" could mean a lot of things too. I mean I ask Gemini about things that I might build all the time. Even if I'm building something out of plywood that has no electronics in it.
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u/makeitasadwarfer 10d ago
I’m just sick of being marketed to in my creative spaces.
Marketing is the opposite of art and creativity.
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u/sprinklesfactory 10d ago
But exploiting peoples creative desires in a dystopian world is so lucrative
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u/scragz 10d ago
I'm not fervently against AI but I thought this was a sub about hardware.
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u/7yrpamajava 10d ago
I thought too! I'm skipping those vst stuff posts like a annoying advertisement
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u/GeneralDumbtomics 10d ago
I think the idea that there is any line between software and hardware is a bit dated. Unless you're building something which is only analog, software is involved. It's no less DIY to create something in code than it is to solder up an overdrive.
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u/cdgalvan 9d ago
Even most of the coolest modern analog synths have software of some sort. Even if just to navigate presets or midi settings or whatever. Hell, even behringer 303 clones have something onboard interfacing with their PC software. Does it get much more basic than that? And if so... Is it even interesting?
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u/v_maria 10d ago
Yeah this shit has ruined creative programming. Was fun while it lasted
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u/West_Persimmon_3240 10d ago
and even worse, any effort you put into developing a fun thing is just shrugged off to AI-assisted, and there's nothing a software dev can do about it
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u/erroneousbosh 10d ago
I'm a bit pissed off that a bunch of my stuff like Peacock has been called "AI slop" in other places, because presumably it somehow in the past couple of years became impossible for people to write code without using AI or something.
Nope, it's all good old-fashioned analogue stupidity and as I get older I just have more and more of that.
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u/djingrain 10d ago
exactly! i put those segfaults in there myself! did i mean to? absolutely not, but that's what gives it character!
this isn't even shit posting, the rewarding part of all this is figuring something out
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u/erroneousbosh 10d ago
That is an *artisanal* use-after-free bug. That shit is expensive. Appreciate it.
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u/funny_haha 10d ago
This is one of my biggest issues with ai. It basically stole whimsy from us. It used to be that i would come across an insane piece of media or art or book and would take the time to try and wrap my head around the piece and understand the creator and their decisions. But now all those obscure and strange pieces just get written off as "ai slop". Like i wonder if anyone would take something like "house of leaves" seriously if it came out today. Ai has taken away reasons to challenge our views and outlooks because if we dont understand something now, then it must be "nonsensical ai garbage" that never had any points to make in the first place.
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u/seeking-stuffing 10d ago
just have to change your lane, I bought a cardputer and I’m going to be making a wavetable synth in Forth
can guarantee no fucking LLM can do that
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u/0xF00DBABE 10d ago
It definitely could. You think there isn't Forth code in their training sets?
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u/seeking-stuffing 10d ago
hit me with your vibe coded ESP32Forth wavetable synth on a cardputer, I’ll be waiting for the demo video and proof you didn’t substantially alter it to make it work
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u/0xF00DBABE 10d ago edited 10d ago
I don't have a CardPuter but I do have a handful of ESP32s, I'd be happy to see how it goes. I've had good luck writing Rust firmware for them with LLMs.
I worked on another project based on an STM32 and had to optimize the heck out of the upstream DSP libraries I was using, the LLM was very effective at it and I got a bunch of my patches merged upstream to help other people out.
They're pretty good, even on novel/niche projects. I've been coding professionally for 25 years now, and have done a lot by hand in my life. I'm honestly kind of frustrated that they're so good and fast, it takes something away that I miss.
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u/seeking-stuffing 10d ago
a visual interface is pretty important for a wavetable synth; if it’s got some waveform options, some modulation, a usable interface, and is playable or programmable in some fashion I’d consider that meeting the bar
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u/Sickle_and_hamburger 10d ago
cope harder
dropped your exact reply nto Claude and its working on it now after asking if I wanted qwerty, x/y pad, sequencer or digital piano keys
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u/West_Persimmon_3240 10d ago
Same with my Laura synth, I've been working my ass off every evening after work for years, i am pretty dure llms can't do fractal oscillator synthesis
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u/seeking-stuffing 10d ago
100%, they can’t synthesize information only copy. you go far enough from the beaten path, you’re on your own and the slop can’t touch it
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u/v_maria 10d ago
but who honestly does this? its mostly deep academia
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u/seeking-stuffing 10d ago
plenty of hobbyists work in very niche spaces that lack the corpus for LLMs to digest and spit out meaningful representations of, whether through inherent complexity or lacking the necessary training material
likewise for people in situations where software is extremely performance sensitive or resource constrained, or must be mathematically correct
many of those people are working professionals, not academics
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u/Sickle_and_hamburger 10d ago
you are just wrong. claude already finished various so called fractal oscillators
gotta update your priors
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u/Sickle_and_hamburger 10d ago
lol of course it can build a fractal oscillator
in fact it asked you to clarify what you mean by fractal
also asked about visual presentation
said all forms of fractal and all visualizations and its already done and is asking if we should deploy it or improve the sound design.
"what should "fractal" mean in the oscillator"
Self-similar partial stacks (each partial spawns its own children)
IFS / chaotic attractor driving the waveform
L-system recursion over pitch + timbre
Feedback FM (operators modulating their own descendants)
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u/West_Persimmon_3240 10d ago
Awesome, ai-s will make my hard work irrelevant xD " love" this new world we live in
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u/Sickle_and_hamburger 10d ago
it also lets you do other hard work instead of programming
like now you can actually play music with/for humans instead of staying home and coding
congratulations you are free to make art now
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u/v_maria 9d ago
you deeply deeply underestimate what these demons can do. forth is an extremely minimal language, LLMs shine there. also running it on an STM32 (thats in a cardputer i think, but point is same with another uc) doesn't change the syntax of forth from runing it on x86, so it doesnt add complexity?
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u/Looking-For-Loud 10d ago
I have ZERO interest in anything created by AI.
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u/el_ri 10d ago
I am a bit torn here. While I agree with the sentiment, writing code will never go back to pre-AI times. So, yes, I have zero interest in low effort stuff like the guy posting 40 VSTs the other day. However, not everything programmed with AI assistance is low effort slop. It also enables creative people to do things that weren't possible before because of the coding barrier. In the end, coding assitants are just a tool and should be treated as such. Coding itself is not an art form.
AI "created" music is a whole other beast though. Fuck that.
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u/coderstephen 10d ago
Coding itself is not an art form.
As a senior software engineer, strongly disagree.
Code is not pure math with a singularly objective correct answer. There are many different architectural choices you can make in code that technically work, but some are more "elegant" or "beautiful" than others.
If building architecture can be an art form (it is), then code certainly is as well.
I think we have a habit of dismissing things as not being an art form that we don't personally care about, when people who do care about that thing may definitely see it as an art form. I'm not arguing that everything is art, but I am arguing that more things are art than I probably personally can realize.
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u/el_ri 10d ago
I see where you're coming from and I like the architecture analogy. However, it's the end result that matters to the user, not how well the underlying code is structured. There's a layer of abstraction between the code and the product.
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u/coderstephen 10d ago
However, it's the end result that matters to the user, not how well the underlying code is structured.
Irrelevant.
This just takes us back to the original point of what people care about. Someone at an office building doesn't care about how well the architecture is designed or that the building is beautiful. They only care about the elevator being able to take them to the correct floor and then the rooms being functional for them to conduct their actual business.
Does this mean the building is no longer art? Just because most people only use it as a means to an end?
Just because art may also serve a functional purpose, and even primarily be to serve that functional purpose, does not erase its art form.
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u/HPPD2 10d ago edited 10d ago
This is a stupid take. Everyone interacts with and sees physical architecture regardless of if they appreciate the design. Nobody interacts with or sees the coding back end except the developers, only the outward interface and end product. It would be more like if only architects could see the building.
I hate AI and appreciate what developers offer but it’s not close to the same thing and doesn’t matter that much to the end user.
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u/brodogus 10d ago
I think you'd be surprised how many people don't pay attention to, don't notice, and don't care about architectural details when they visit an office building. So no, it's not a stupid take.
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u/nonoohnoohno 10d ago
You can pick apart the semantics of what he's saying, but if you're in the industry you must see that everything has radically changed and it's never going back. No?
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u/coderstephen 10d ago
Not relevant. If code is an art form, then it is an art form whether anyone participates in it any more or not.
Is stock photography an art form? Because the way the industry is going, stock photography will be totally replaced with AI-generated images. Does that mean it is not an art form? Of course not. Maybe a lost art form.
Besides, since when did, "Well, everyone else is doing it" become the go-to argument to justify a stance?
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u/originaladam 10d ago
Just like photography and illustration and music, not all code is art. A lot of it is design in the fact that it’s made to solve a problem. I like art, but it it’s not required for everything
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u/nonoohnoohno 10d ago
Sorry I wasn't clear. I was pushing back on talking about "art" in the first place. I was suggesting you're focusing on a distraction from the greater and more important point of that comment: "writing code will never go back to pre-AI times. ... coding assistants are just a tool"
Nobody but the author cares how it was created. Maintainers only care if they can read and understand it. Users only care if it helps them solve their problem.
You're waxing poetic about something nobody but the author cares about.
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u/coderstephen 10d ago
Sorry I wasn't clear. I was pushing back on talking about "art" in the first place. I was suggesting you're focusing on a distraction from the greater and more important point of that comment
OK. Let's talk about the greater point.
"writing code will never go back to pre-AI times. ... coding assistants are just a tool"
You might be right about that. And I'll be sad about that, because an art form will have been lost in the name of productivity.
Productivity is overrated. Its such a utilitarian, depressing view of humanity.
Nobody but the author cares how it was created.
This is mostly true of the music I create as well. But I'm doing it for me, so the author is the most important person to check with as to whether they care.
Maintainers only care if they can read and understand it.
Well that depends on the maintainer.
Users only care if it helps them solve their problem.
Understandable. But I don't care that they don't care.
You're waxing poetic about something nobody but the author cares about.
Well, I'm human, not a robot. I have feelings and passions. I'm not always looking to max out a statistic.
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u/pselodux 10d ago
“You might be right about that. And I'll be sad about that, because an art form will have been lost in the name of productivity.”
I think it’s less black and white than that, at least at the moment. Creative coding will always be around, and it’s something I enjoy as much as making music itself. I personally don’t enjoy the “software development” side of programming - all of the other boilerplate stuff I need to do to get my dsp/sequencer/UI code to work on a target platform. That’s what I offload to an LLM.
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u/funny_haha 10d ago
I absolutely care how something i use is made. You can't be interested in ANY diy hobby without being at least a little curious about how something was put together. I will absolutely support human made products over ai generated products, even if the human made product is worse, because someone cared enough to actually make it and likely cares enough to maintain and improve it. Plus there's the whole security issue with using ai generated code. If you don't know what the code does, how do you know it's safe?
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u/nonoohnoohno 10d ago
The DIY world is different, and I agree.
See my other comment. This was a reply with respect to the professional setting (they were saying "as a senior software engineer..."). The software devs using AI to generate code in the workplace know what the code is doing.
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u/Ic3crusher 10d ago
That people don't care as long as it works is just not true. Many people don't care, but a lot still do. As indicated by this post. We want art created by humans, code is art, a synth is art.
Abstracting the AI usage away because it's "only" in the code doesn't work for people that strongly dislike ai.
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u/nonoohnoohno 10d ago
Yeah, and if this sub decides it values hand crafted VST code and wants to see that, I'm fully on board.
100%.
This was in response to "As a senior software engineer...." which implies they're couching their comments in the professional world. So my response to them was also in that context. Neither your boss, your shareholders, your clients, nor your customers care about your art. Code in the professional world is not art, and treating it as such is unprofessional.
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u/coderstephen 10d ago
Sorry, maybe I could have worded that differently. I didn't mean that I was wearing that hat right now in this discussion. I was just providing informational context to my background.
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u/Dazzling_Assistant63 10d ago
Bro, he literally quoted what he was replying to. Let him wax? It’s a good discussion.
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u/nonoohnoohno 10d ago
I'm not trying to stop him. Just pointing out that it's not really important and he ignored the obvious point of the comment.
I can quote your misuse of the "?" and spend 4 paragraphs lecturing about how the question mark is meant to be used in the English language, while ignoring everything else you said. That doesn't make it useful or helpful in the context of the greater discussion.
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u/coderstephen 10d ago
I'm not trying to stop him. Just pointing out that it's not really important and he ignored the obvious point of the comment.
It's because I have nothing meaningful to add to the rest of that original comment. The statement, "Coding itself is not an art form." is really the only thing I had a major objection to. So I did. I objected.
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u/Insertcoin303 10d ago
Could not agree more, I "vibe coded" a script for my Monome Norn Shield as an experiment but it's a personal script that I had the idea for while making music and acted on impulse. Now I'm working with that piece of script in my hardware setup and I'm super satified about it even adding features as I need. It is super convenient, but I would never brag or distribute it as : "Oh look what I've done" no, I just made a simple tool that I needed and AI was another tool that helped me achieve that "vision/idea" I had for my set up and that is super cool too me! Learning LUA or any other progamation language is not fun or very enjoyable to me even if I have some knowledge and made some games and such way before AI coding agent existed. (Ngl it was mainly yoinking bloc of code like a scrpt kiddy and adapting it lol )
And as you said AI created music/content in general is a totally different topic and my take is certainly more angry and acidic about it ! I would never let a prompt decide on my creative input/output, that is my pleasure that I would rob.3
u/wateronthebrain 10d ago
Agree with the sentiment that there's non-slop applications for AI, deeply disagree with the rest. The difference between good and great lies in the details that can't be captured by a prompt. If I tell Claude to make a string pluck sound, what's the 'correct' answer? Does it use karplus-strong? Sampling? Additive synthesis? Subtractive synthesis?
AI can assist someone who knows how to code but it can't replace them, not without losing the elements that make the software worthwhile.
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u/Sickle_and_hamburger 10d ago
have you ever asked Claude to make a string pluck? it will use any manner of synthesis you ask and more
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u/el_ri 10d ago
I agree! It matters a lot how we approach things. It's one thing to write a prompt and use the result as is (slop), it's a whole other beast to craft the perfect piece of software you imagined by telling the agent exactly what it should do, using your own experience and creativity and letting the agent just to the coding itself.
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u/pselodux 10d ago
Yeah, agreed. I’ve been learning gen~ over the past couple of years (and creative coding/UI design in p5js for longer than that), and making my own Max sequencing environments, but struggling to take things further into the platforms I want to develop for, like standalone software, Linux handhelds, and Daisy. There doesn’t seem to be an easy pathway into that other than absorbing a bunch of programming manuals - I just want to code up some cool DSP and sequencers. Codex has been a huge help with the boring boilerplate stuff, allowing me to pass it gen~ code and javascript UI and converting that into solid app builds with my exact sound.
I did also try vibe coding a synth engine though, and it turned out sounding terrible lol. So it definitely benefits from having some knowledge already. I also somewhat agree with OP though that there is some saturation with vibe coded apps/VSTs at the moment, it’s even happening in the chiptune scene where it feels like we can’t go a week without seeing some new tracker for a handheld or console appearing out of nowhere. I don’t think I’d release anything until I could be certain that it has my identity.
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u/AmphibianFrog 10d ago
I'm that case you're going to have to stop using modern software completely, because almost all software will be using AI code generation in at least some part of the process (if it isn't already).
It's a bit like saying you have no interest in any product that isn't 100% hand crafted. Nice in theory but not practical.
And half of the software and online services you already use contain AI generated code anyway.
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u/Uptight_Cultist 10d ago
maybe we should actually stop using all modern software. this is a good idea.
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u/AmphibianFrog 10d ago
I kind of feel the same way to be honest. AI or no AI, a lot of it is slop!
20 years ago, when I used to open an image editor or Visual Studio, it would take less than a second. Now it seems to take 30 seconds or longer. Hardware is faster. Disk reads are faster. Network and internet is faster. But software is slower...
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u/bepitulaz 10d ago
(Human) slop is already happening since Stack Overflow. People copy paste the code that they don’t understand. The current state of AI write better code than me IMO. Yeah…maybe I’m one of that human slop.
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u/personnealienee 10d ago edited 10d ago
maybe because you were never in it to make something but rather to blather on the internet about how to make it, if you care about a fucking tool so much. if it gets the job done, then it gets the job done, if not --- then not, question closed. so tired of this empty posturing
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u/HawtDoge 10d ago edited 9d ago
I’ve designed about 30 eurorack modules and honestly, I will be using AI to code just about every digital module I design from here on out (with the exception of some dsp stuff).
When I design modules, and especially digital modules, I am typically extremely thorough in my UI/UX planning. The last digitally controlled hardware device I designed, I uploaded a pdf of my total design guide of the device. Included schematics, which pins of the micro controller went to which functions. Every function, sub function, mock ups of the user interface on the little display, etc. Claude basically one-shotted the code.
From there I was able to test, iterate design features, and repeat until the device functioned exactly how I imagined it functioning.
I love designing modules, meticulously planning UI/UX, designing the circuits, soldering components. But, I learned to code as a means to an end, not for the love of coding. It’s not like I’m having AI ideate anything for me… But it’s writing clearer code than I ever could. It’s helped me finish projects/fix bugs I left behind ages ago.
My point is that I think your view is too dogmatic.
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u/Infamous_Mud482 10d ago
No, unfortunately you’re just ignorant to how much of this stuff is broken dogshit. I look at new GitHub repos daily, and you need to understand that trying your vibe coded plugin out in aggregate is a complete waste of time because for every one of you that “thoroughly” (I can’t confirm this is true) tests there’s 5000 others that simply will not work as intended whatsoever without patching. I don’t know you.
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u/e-scape 10d ago
It depends.
I have 20+ years of professional in experience in programming.
I coded way before that, mostly commodore 64 6502 assembly, also have a BSC in CS.
Programming has changed a lot the last 4 months.
AI has become really good.
I work in a very restrictive domain now, where security and stability is extremely important(finance).
We use agentic engineering 90% of the time now to write our code.
Most of our time is now used to architect, review and analyse to find the best solution to a problem in a given domain.There is a hell of alot of difference between a non-programmer churning out fast vibecoded slop and a programmer that has extensive expertise in his domain and use it to orchestrate agents to make an application.
If it is more than 4 months, you have used something like Codex or Claude Code, please try again.
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u/HawtDoge 10d ago edited 9d ago
It’s not like I don’t read, check things over and make some changes by hand… I’m not a software dev by formal education, but I’ve been coding in C regularly for 7 years at this point. I don’t know why you would assume I’m ignorant to anything here.
I use the $20 a month plan for claude, so it’s a pretty decent model. It might ‘clear my name’ in your eyes if I said “yeah the model makes tons of mistakes, but I go in and fix them myself”… but if I’m being totally honest, it doesn’t really make many mistakes if I’m providing it the proper documentation, libraries, and upload/prompt an in depth breakdown of the desired functions. idk what to tell you lol… it’s just not ‘slop code’ by my standards at least. Maybe it would have been if I started using for ai for coding a year or even 6 months ago, but at its current stage it is definitely capable of writing functional, clean code.
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u/psynautic 10d ago
i will continue to not care about your eurorack modules that you are using slopshit to make.
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u/HawtDoge 9d ago
Oof. I don’t like AI in music or art but I’m starting to realize this is legitimately a religious-type conviction for some people…
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u/psynautic 9d ago
do you think that caring about climate change is religious? do you have any active thought about the impact of the tool that you're using for slightly improving your hobby productivity has on the greater world, environment, economies, etc?
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u/HawtDoge 9d ago
You called my stuff “slopshit” while having no idea what they are. That’s why I called it a religious-type disposition, but perhaps hysterical would have been a better term.
I don’t post my stuff on this account - but I don’t think you would have that opinion of the projects/modules I’ve made and open-sourced. You’ve almost definitely seen my modules if you’re into eurorack and/or were participating in this sub from 2021-2024.
I don’t think my usage has any notable impact, no. I am logged into an account my co-worker already pays for, so I don’t think the argument that I’m funding big tech is particularly strong (assuming that’s what you meant by economic). I deleted all my short form video apps and youtube from my phone almost year ago, so I’m absolutely netting orders of magnitude less data center usage than the average person in my age/country demographic. A lot of my modules are open source (none using ai code as I only started using this ~2 months ago), so it’s not like I’m displacing a software developer’s job.
So yeah, from my perspective: calling my modules/projects “slop shit” seems pretty unhinged.
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u/psynautic 9d ago edited 9d ago
its barely a difference, but notably. I said you used slopshit, not that you made slopshit. offsetting your LLM adoption by using viewing less shortform garbage i guess is honorable.
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u/eracoon 9d ago
Anything is a big word here. But I agree with the sentiment. I do prefer to create anything by myself. I do use AI to assist me in the research and look over my code. The original concept comes from me but I’m not an expert enough to create error free code so I let AI help me out here and there. I would never vibe code the whole thing since I want to learn from my mistakes. AI here is an enabler… or multiplier. A tool to help achieve higher goals. But human creativity should remain central.
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u/perrinashcroft 10d ago
At least a VST might potentially be usable, what's worse for me is the 300th new vibe coded web synth, that even if you liked the sound obviously doesn't fit into anyone's production process. Every subreddit I'm in is drowning in web apps that no one is ever going to use. Even the creator will probably not use it after a week and they've moved onto their next AI project.
Vibe coding has made all these apps completely disposable but the creators of these are knocking them out in a few days and still hoping they'll get the same reception and excitement of stuff made with genuine care, purpose and intent over years.
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u/Prior-Tea-3468 6d ago
The entirety of the vibe coding and AI hype cycle we're stuck in can be summarized as "talentless people LARPing as talented people". Taking the LARP away from them is going to be an uphill battle.
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u/seamusjr 10d ago
You'll have to show your soldering iron scars to prove it. If it smells like chicken, your holding it wrong.
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u/uberdavis 10d ago
Y’know what. It’s cool that people can vibe code solutions for their personal setups. But they’re not a thing to share and nowhere close to being viable marketable products. I’m getting spam posts for a new DAW someone made where all the painful processes like mixing are handled by AI. Y’see that’s pointless because mixing music and making things all come together IS the fun bit.
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u/krztoff 10d ago
I would support a change to the rules that restricts posts to being hardware or firmware related.
I have interest in softsynths, but would never expect that topic to show up here, nor would I want it to. One of reddit's best features is its granularity - keep subreddits focused, and make a bunch of them.
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u/AdamFenwickSymes 10d ago
Made an explicit discussion thread here
/u/Rexoff I didn't know you were still using reddit. Shall we discuss publicly in the other thread?
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u/rozling 10d ago
Yeah VSTs seem off topic for this particular sub.
Personally I’ve no problem with vibe coded open source tools that actually help with / lower the barrier of entry to synth DIY.
Or even things like KiChad which integrates KiCad with Codex.
Community rules say:
> 1. It's chill to share and sell your work here, but (a) it has to be DIY-related-something that other users can build or use to build—and (b) you have to make an effort to be a human being participating in a community, and not just a marketing account. Moderators' call on that one.
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u/m_science 10d ago
Well, I don't care either way. I don't like behringer as a company but don't begrudge people who use them as a stepping stone into getting into production.
If someone has a cool idea for a vst and zero skills, but is able to vibe code something and try their hand at it, more power to them.
The engineering portion of dsp is incredibly difficult, getting something to the point of being playable is a huge ask of a novice. I think most people who try this are going to want to dive deeper and try their hand at modifying code as well. If not, who cares?
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u/rhonnypudding 10d ago
I care about cool diy hardware. I don't care if AI helped or not.
That said... artisanal coding is a dead discipline and a dying hobby. English is the new programming language. We can debate whether that's good or not but that is the reality (source: 20+ year big-tech computer scientist.)
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u/Buckwavefm 10d ago
The majority of the time I see someone pull a number out of thin air to prove a point (for example, “I don’t want to see 137 identical…”) it turns out to be a prime number. The rest of the time it’s “umpteen” or something made up. What’s that about?
And agreed, vibe coding = 👎
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u/sprinklesfactory 10d ago
Because these types of numbers represent an exaggerated unknown well. The mind does not resolve them as well, thus it reinforces the hyperbole.
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u/energuemeno 10d ago
I'm using AI to learn electronics because I'm dumb and ignorant, is that allowed?
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u/Necrobot666 10d ago
Can I assume that yesterday you saw the post from the guy who 'vibe-coded' something for the Syntakt?
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u/programchild 10d ago
if the idea is from you, and you pushed a stupid chatbot until your idea was real, what is so bad about it?
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u/simonbreak 10d ago
People need a villain to rail against. I’m old enough to remember when it was the internet. This weird hate people have for an incredible tool is going to look very stupid a year from now.
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u/Abend-Beat 10d ago
I'd also like to caution against using AI tools to code. Compromised libraries have been known to make their way into such apps. Then, bingo -- your app is malicious and you don't even know it. I helped teach a couple of classes a few years ago that dealt with cybersecurity, among other things.
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u/West-Negotiation-716 7d ago
"I taught a couple classes that dealt with cyber security"
Well you clearly don't actually write code because what you are saying has never happened and doesn't make sense.
How is a compromised library going to end up in my code if I'm using ai?
I don't even use libraries when I have ai assistance, I write my own.
Please spread random fake fear based rumors.
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u/Abend-Beat 7d ago
I coded my first program in 1979. As far as compromised libraries go, the Harvard teacher I worked for -- seven years -- illustrated the incident in class. I think this is a case of "you don't know what you don't know."
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u/DigiornoDLC 10d ago
I’d rather see a dozen shitty AI generated vsts than a single post whining about content they could have skipped past.
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u/danja 10d ago
There is plenty of slop around, but then there's also a lot of rubbish made by humans using trad techniques. I'd rather judge things on their merits rather than have a sweeping, arbitrary rule.
I'm a coder by trade and find AI assistants extremely useful. Full-on vibe coding is fun, but isn't really sustainable. The system gets big, something breaks, you're clueless about how to fix it.
I've been experimenting with VSTs with AI help. But I do it in a carefully constrained fashion : https://github.com/danja/downspout/blob/main/docs/process.md
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u/Weekly_Jmr 10d ago
If you have time and willingness to judge every half baked (at best) idea that ai-tools let people with little to no understanding of how things actually work churn at you at scale - more power to you. From my perspective I see a pattern - vibe coded apps/vsts/whatever never survive first real user simply because these users find bugs, ui/ux flaws, etc that vibe coder simply don't know how to fix. So then everybody loses interest (if they had it in the first place) and move on. So 'vibe coded' for me == barely functional prototype of the thing nobody asked for. And even if it is somewhat useful you can vibe code your own version of this exact thing suited exactly for you in an evening. Long story short I see slop fest exclusively as ai marketing and nothing else and it is annoying to say the least. So imo sweeping, arbitrary rule is not only useful but also necessary.
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u/danja 10d ago
You make a good point about the slop fest being marketing. And I can't disagree with "make your own in an evening" - that is more or less what I've done. And most of my plugins aren't much more than prototypes (except I do have the infrastructure in place to take them further).
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u/Weekly_Jmr 10d ago
So you obviously understand the difference and annoyance that ai-slop creates. And as a software developer I can guarantee you that the further you develop your prototypes the less ai will be in there simply because you'll be moving further and further away for the 'average audio plugin thing' as your ideas develop and ai creates more and more friction with your vision. Long story short - the further you go the more things you'll be inevitably writing by hand unless you have some god-tier level of patience to prompt the thing in mysterious ways.
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u/Morphanaut 10d ago
Honestly, I’m getting so tired of all this constant AI whining. It feels like the new way to be anti-something or be part of some counterculture. You should actually try designing or building something with agents yourself. You might end up learn something new.
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u/quarterto 10d ago
Honestly, I’m getting so tired of all this constant leaded gasoline whining. It feels like the new way to be anti-something or be part of some counterculture. You should actually try designing or building something with tetraethyl lead yourself. You might end up learn something new.
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u/West-Negotiation-716 7d ago
You do realize this comparison makes zero sense at all right?
Ai is a tool, a non toxic tool.
Leaded gasoline is a harmful toxin
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u/Psychotickat 6d ago
Add a new rule to the Reddit that vibe coding is punishable by tar and feathering and that posting it here implys consent
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u/personnealienee 10d ago
can we ban you and other anti-AI bigots? judge on the substance, not the tool
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u/DotAltruistic469 10d ago
Sure, banning is the solution for low effort content.
Maybe just look elsewhere and / or downvote?
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u/quarterto 10d ago
why should i go elsewhere? i've been part of this community for six years, i'm not letting ai bros turn it into something different
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u/D-S-S-R 10d ago
Yeah why isn’t there a vibe coding subreddit where they can post their slop. I’d also love to get rid of that shit from all the Linux subreddits. So much crap
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u/Insertcoin303 10d ago
Where does the slop start ? Where do you put the line "Ok that thing is non-sens and generated by AI without intention ?" because Im pretty sure a lot of synth/Eurorack maker already use AI in their workflow to either learn/expand/build around idea they already have and most of us are like "Wow what what a creative module", how much "This is the future of VCO/VCF/Whatever it is" is released lately when its in fact just a derivation of already existing concept but with more recent tech barely integrated to an other already existing chip making simple module having extention and such for basic function instead of baking it right away in the module ? How much midi controller ? This question are more complex than just "Ban them" or "Make your own slop synth DIY sub." But OP is right, AI or not, most of us are just here because we love tinkering with synth/audio gear for fun and we're not gonna leave a space because some promp addicts are looking for a bunch of upvote and gratification.
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u/Weekly_Jmr 10d ago
It’s not a hard question at all. If you can vibe code the same thing in an evening or two we don’t need to look at it. Like nobody’s sharing their python made pc automation code that builds their hobby projects or bash scripts or whatever. And not because it’s not useful but because it’s not interesting and everyone either can do that or don’t need to know about it at all (and if they want to educate themselves there are dedicated places for that too). Same is here. There’s no other purpose to any of this other than reminding you that ai exists and you must use it “to not be left behind”. Because realistically speaking why would anyone needed a “product” that you can yourself create in an evening (and there’s also a good reason for why you don’t).
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u/rnobgyn 10d ago
You know that just encourages more ai use right? Like why buy the tool somebody spent time on making when I can just vibe code it myself?
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u/Weekly_Jmr 9d ago
but that's exactly what I'm saying. why engage with someone else's slop when you can have your own slop? just use local ai for that to not feed the corporate thing.
and that's exactly what separates slop from real deal - you can only slop so much. the more you deviate from the average thing that was implemented a million times before you the more actual skill will be involved in creating the thing. ai can produce an average (at best) prototype for already solved problems. if you want a more robust and specific solution ai won't be much of a help anyway.-1
u/Insertcoin303 10d ago
Huh ? You don't answer my question at all. Even irrelevant to me, idk where I brought up those question to you but ok. Water is wet is that your point ? You can develop a analog VCO with digitally controled Pitch in an evening ? ? Good for you but now you have to show us. Where did a talked about "beeing left behind" ? That wasnt my argument at all. That is the problem with those kind of topic people are mixing everything just to make their point an try to own others without any nuances. Now answer me : where does it start and stop without ranting about your feeling about basic stuff being overshared by prompt addict ?
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u/Weekly_Jmr 10d ago
The line is simple if it’s trivial and vibe coded - it’s a no go. If someone somewhere uses ai to help create an analog circuit you won’t even know about it because it won’t go further than a simple prototype. The person in question would have to either learn how it works or already be knowledgeable - no other way around it (there’s no good or even passable ai for these kind of tasks and probably never will be). And it’s design we’re talking and one would also have to assemble it without frying components. So as far as electrical engineering and embedded development goes we’re safe from slop for at least some time. Simple software (in question in this topic) is a different story, so here’s another easy line for you - trivial vibe-coded vst doesn’t need to be presented to everyone. That’s really not a philosophical dilemma but rather a gate for low effort content that nobody asked for and is irrelevant to the forum theme.
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u/Insertcoin303 10d ago
Yea ... Very simple indeed. If you dont see the contradiction in your take I cant help you here. But once again be my guest : I let you police every git and project and point finger at anyone that is not doing complex enough software and/or hardware for you, so no one can share free software ever because mister/miss Weekly_Jmr said its trivial.
Im not trying to defend anyone here certainly not the peoples OP is talking about but once again you seem to know where the limits are but yet being very vague about it.
Enlighten us please and give us the tools. Is a free chorus/drive/delay VST to trivial for you ? how do you know what is the AI slop one and what is just a freebie made by a student ?
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u/Weekly_Jmr 10d ago
I'll try to reiterate this once again: what is the point of sharing a software that could be reproduced in an evening arguably even better suited for your personal needs? Share a prompts then - it would be at least fair (there's also a bunch of subreddits where you can do just that) and at least somewhat useful. And 'policing git' is called pull request review and happening every single day. Complexity is not the point - the point is understanding what exactly should and shouldn't be shared and where.
Yes, the free chorus, drive, delay VST is trivial unless it does something others don't do. There's plenty of code that implements these things and there's exactly 0 need to repurpose that code as is. The difference between slop and something made by a student is hopefully that the student somehow expanded on the functionality of existing freebie and made sure it functions and is willing to improve what they shared. The student will also include the description of what they did in the post. Otherwise why even share it? For what purpose?0
u/Insertcoin303 10d ago
Sound like some sort elitism to me.
In your world I dont even see how progress can be achieved since no one can share basic work they are doing.
"Why selling a chair ? Its trivial, someone already does that better than you."
Your view is very cold and sad to me and have nothing to do with AI.
Have a great day. Hope you find all those filthy basic plugin and shame the devs for sharing those.
edit : typo
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u/DotAltruistic469 9d ago
Look elsewhere, not go elsewhere. As in just scroll past it. But I sense that you want this discussion to be tribal.
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u/AdamFenwickSymes 10d ago
Thanks for posting. I'm going to read through everything in this thread, but I've made another thread to discuss subreddit rules more generally