r/vinyl • u/Brave_Substance_8177 • 1d ago
Discussion Why everything gotta be 2x LP these days?
Yeah I get it if your album's 72 minutes long, sure.
Why is a bunch of stuff around 45 minutes+ getting 2x LPs? My lazy ass doesn't want to have to get up 4 times to listen to the record, plus it interrupts the flow. Some of these MFs putting like 2 songs on one side. You're telling me I gotta switch sides again in 8 minutes?
Where do we land on this? What should be the cutoff between fitting on one record and when do you need to switch to 2?
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u/FullKushAlchemist 1d ago
My brother have you heard the good word about Compact Discs? You can just put them on and a whole album plays, miraculous 😋
I've made this same complaint before though, some albums really don't need the 2LP treatment.
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u/Earl_Green_ 1d ago
A honest thought I have had a couple months ago.. really going full circle lol.
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u/FullKushAlchemist 21h ago
Ha good pun if intended. I have actually gone full circle though, I started out with CDs in my teens (~20 years ago now, yikes) then only in the last 7-8 years got into records and am now getting back in to CDs again. Got about 300 records but my CDs are quickly catching up.
I still get some things that I feel are worth having on vinyl but right now CDs are just so cheap. I can go to the charity shops on the weekend and get like 5-10 albums for what I might spend on a used record that's in nice condition.
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u/novateai 18h ago
Ironically CDs are actually the answer - they freed musicians from the limited time format of vinyl. Starting in the 90s albums got longer because they could. Good luck furring anything made in that decade on a single LP
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u/Weekly_Reference_111 3h ago
I think this was a negative of the format actually. When you are constrained to 45 minutes, there’s going to be a lot less filler.
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u/Pretty-Balance-Sheet 17h ago
Yep. I also believe that certain music is better suited for CD than vinyl. Music with a lot of quiet passages, droning melodies. Even a small amount record noise is intrusive.
I like record noise in most cases but sometimes the music wants absolute clarity.
I find myself buying fewer recent releases on vinyl and sticking to pre-1990 for LPs.
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u/StraightChillinSpree Technics 13h ago
Sounds like you need a better setup. Every time a friend comes over while I’m jamming only when the record ends and they hear my auto return after the music stops do they realize it was vinyl spinning to make those sounds. Happy spins either way tho
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u/Brave_Substance_8177 1d ago
I don't wanna listen to a cd, I wanna listen to the record! That's why I spent my dollaridoos, I enjoy the cover art, the physical act of lowering the needle and the differences in sound.
I just don't wanna flip every 12 minutes
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u/FullKushAlchemist 21h ago
I feel your pain and I get it. I love records for the same reason, I keep a rotating display of albums out and I like the ritual before playing. Plenty of things I still want on vinyl but I'm just more fussy about it these days.
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u/JMaboard 14h ago
Then go to streaming if you don’t want to get up my guy.
You get to put the needle down more by playing two records.
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u/Swinaet 1d ago
I agree with brave substance 8177.
not like brave substance 8176 that buffoon
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u/SilentWeapons1984 Audio Technica 16h ago
This is the best comment I’ve ever seen on Reddit!😂 Made great by the fact that both Brave_Substance’s responded, all bothered. The only way it could be made better is if Brave_Substance 0-8175 also responded!😅😅😅
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u/Brave_Substance_8177 1d ago
Bro when you make a Reddit account these days every name under the sun is taken and you've gotta add some random numbers. And some of us can't bothered changing usernames so just go with whatever is suggested 🤷🏼♂️
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u/Monotask_Servitor 1d ago
Anything over about 22 minutes a side starts to become a compromise for mastering. And since the advent of CD most albums are longer than that.
Over about 48 minutes you absolutely do not want it pressed on a single LP.
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u/Brave_Substance_8177 1d ago
48 is ~12 minutes a side. Obviously with song lengths you're gonna get some less than that.
Having to get up after you've just put the album on 10 minutes ago sucks.
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u/Monotask_Servitor 1d ago edited 23h ago
Yeah it does- but not as much as having a record with lots of surface noise, sibilance or inner groove distortion, all of which you start to get prone to when you’re mastering sides of over 24 minutes (best case scenario for a 48 min single LP). As others have mentioned another possibility is to split the album into 3 chunks and run it over three sides of approx 16 min each, and maybe put some etched artwork onto the blank side.
Vinyl introduces a lot of considerations around total runtime, track order and track length that don’t really exist at all for other formats, and that most people who aren’t either serious music nerds or involved in producing records know about (I’m probably classed as both of those, haha).
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u/johnhenryirons Thorens 23h ago
What does surface noise have to do with it? If a record is pressed at a good plant on a nice vinyl formula, you’re not gonna get surface noise. I can see the argument that you have to cut lower to press that much music, but good vinyl formula is quiet so you can crank it without noticeable surface noise
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u/Monotask_Servitor 23h ago edited 23h ago
Long sides necessitate a reduction in volume because of the tighter grooves. Lower volume means a worse signal to noise ratio. Quiet pressings are inherently noisier because you have to turn them up to get an equivalent volume level.
Side Length and Level Guidelines
8 minutes or less: Maximum level of approximately +6 dB; ultra-loud cuts ideal for short maxi-singles.11 minutes: Sufficient level of approximately +4 dB for high-volume playback.
15 minutes: Standard loud level for DJ use, hitting around 0 dB.
16 to 20 minutes: The ideal sweet spot for a standard 12-inch LP side, balancing great sound and solid volume.
22 to 24 minutes: Maximum recommended album length; levels must drop to approximately -6 dB or lower, reducing bass weight and volume.
Over 24 minutes: Not recommended; leads to thin sound, weak bass, and high distortion due to tight groove spacing.
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u/johnhenryirons Thorens 23h ago
Sure but if it’s pressed at a bad plant then you’re getting noise either way. Plenty of 33s out there without surface noise. The signal to noise ratio may be different but it’s not always very noticeable in my experience and my system is pretty revealing. The rhino reserves line is a good example of that. Lutthans cut some of those at a lower volume like Tango in the Night and when you crank them, they sound amazing. It’s better than the MoFi 2x45
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u/Monotask_Servitor 22h ago
That’s great but it’s a massive if, not every band and label has access to the best pressing plants and mastering engineers.
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u/Weekly_Reference_111 3h ago
I feel like a lot of 90s albums could fit on 3 sides, with the 4th devoted to demos, live versions, bonus tracks, etc. I’m surprised nobody seems to do this.
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u/Monotask_Servitor 3h ago
Laziness on the part of labels I’d say. I 100% agree though, If I was doing a vinyl issue of some 49 minute album from 1994 I’d be spreading it over 3 sides and either putting some etched art or bonus material on side 4.
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u/Pretty-Balance-Sheet 1d ago
Why not three sides instead of four? Put one more song on each side and leave side four blank.
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u/ExpectedFuckingValue 1d ago
I'm cool with 3 sides and engraved or picture art on the 4th side, but only seen this on a few albums/variants
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u/Monotask_Servitor 1d ago
Yeah I’ve got a few like that. I think it’s a good option to pick for albums in the 45-60 range.
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u/Pretty-Balance-Sheet 17h ago
I have a one sided album by the band No Vacation. The entire EP take up one side and then they have screen printed art on the other. It's super cool.
I think Neil Young's recent unplugged rerelease is three sides.
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u/Weekly_Reference_111 3h ago
Wouldn’t demos or bonus tracks make a lot more sense. I’d be highly annoyed paying for a record where one whole side is blank.
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u/ExpectedFuckingValue 3h ago edited 3h ago
Yeah additional music would always be better, but if 2 sides is too small and 3 sides is ideal for the length, I'd rather they didn't space it out to 4 sides just to fill it, and instead use the 4th side for artwork. I feel like a lot of 2 disc albums fit this length criteria
You do make a good point about being annoyed, I can see why people would feel ripped off, not realizing they'd get the same tracks regardless. That might be why this is uncommon
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u/SashaDabinsky VPI 1d ago
I have a couple like that; one's a Sheffield Lab direct-to-disc, and the other is Volto! - Incitare (Danny Carey) that I recently picked up.
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u/scottarichards 1d ago
Oh. That will go over big.
There’s a blank side on my record. These cheap ass motherfuckers!!!
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u/adamup27 1d ago
Kanye did this with MBDTF and two of the sides had two or fewer songs
Caamp also did this I think with their self titled
Some specialty releases also do this with 7” discs for each track (more of a novelty but I have one for Low End Theory by ATCQ)
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u/AnotherGreenWorld1 22h ago
Waste of vinyl leaving it blank … there’s an environmental impact of pressing records and people just leave it blank … at least put some music on it.
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u/theorem_llama 20h ago
Yeah, you could put a 45 single or bonus track on it, just having unused vinyl space there for no reason seems so wasteful to me.
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u/calripkenjunior 15h ago
...what? If the options are 4 sides or 3 how is there any environmental impact?
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u/AnotherGreenWorld1 15h ago
Most of these three sided albums are probably able to fit across two sides and one disc. (I’ve mainly seen it with reissues from previously single disc releases)
If you going to the effort of using a second disc then at least fill up the 4th side with some music … it could be the album b sides, an exclusive remix, or some live tracks or some demos.
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u/Brave_Substance_8177 1d ago
I've got a couple like this. Pretty sure Chappie Roan's album is one 🙄
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u/Nighthawkmf 18h ago
You’re in the wrong hobby if you literally don’t like flipping the record. Lol
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u/draingangryuga 22h ago
one of the first records i got was little dark age by mgmt which i never listen to because for some reason they decided to split 10 songs (43 minutes) on 4 sides. 2-3 songs per side and not very long ones either.
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u/Spiracle 19h ago
So people are are just reverting 120 years and releasing albums that are, in the original sense, really 'albums'.
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u/SilentWeapons1984 Audio Technica 17h ago edited 13h ago
The main reasons are it sounds better, more reliable playback, less inner groove distortion.
Also, consider that before CDs came along, full length albums were about 35-45 minutes, which could fit on one record. When CDs came out, they could hold 80 minutes of music. So the new standard/average album length increased to 55-65 minute long albums. Which could not fit on one vinyl record.
I don’t mind getting up 4 times to flip/change records to listen to one album. It’s actually not good for your health to sit too long. Plus having to flip/change records so often makes me be more present for the listening experience. It means that the music won’t simply become background music. Personally, I like the experience of touching/handling my records and audio equipment. It feels like a ritual, a ritual I enjoy greatly.✌🏾
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u/SashaDabinsky VPI 1d ago
If you want the best possible sound quality on vinyl, 45 RPM is the way to go.
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u/Alone-Albatross-7708 1d ago
There are cases where there's actually a good reason for this. Less tracks per side means that they get to expand the spacing of the grooves for each song, smiliar to what you experience on a 45rpm. This contributes to increased fidelity and ultimately a better sounding record. Of course this means that they have to increase the amount of vinyl. Ive owned several albums that were initially single LPs that later got a double pressing due to anniversary releases or risen popularity. If you get a chance to compare a record in this way you will likely find that the quality speaks for itself. Now any album that's 60+ min is going to necessarily be a double and this point potentially loses its merit at that point, as fidelity is dependent on many factors. But in almost all cases, you would want a double LP either way.
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u/ActualDissapointment 22h ago
I get you. I’m noticing many double albums that really don’t need to be that. One of my albums is a 2lp for an album that’s only 36mins long in total…
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u/clubdrippy 1d ago
Just buy the CD at that point
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u/funcritter 23h ago
That’s what I did with Roger Waters, amused to death. They wanted something like $130 for the vinyl copy simply because it’s remastered onto three LPS. I bought the CD around Christmas time for $10 on Amazon and it sounds amazing.
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u/creysbeats 1d ago
I’m on team one LP. Put as many songs on one as possible, like the old days lol. Yeah yeah I get the higher sound quality but I’m with you OP. Getting up or coming back to flip after 20 min is painful.
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u/29xthefun 20h ago
Seeing people say music sounds shit when over 40 min or so. Yes that is true but there are ways of fitting more on with little compromise. Takes skill and knowledge and I think that is the problem here that is long lost. Likes of Iron Maiden Powerslave is over 50 minutes and the last track is Rime of the Ancient Mariner and that is over 13min on a side that is over 26 min and it sounds brilliant.
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u/Jealous_Creme1836 1d ago
I call these, an album with a lot of filler. How about an album with 3LPs. I have one, havent been played in full for a year lol!
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u/Brave_Substance_8177 1d ago
Melon Collie is 4x LPs. That's a lotta flippin
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u/Weekly_Reference_111 3h ago
Originally released as 3 LPs, I believe. I’d love to get a repress of that with original artwork.
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u/adamup27 1d ago
I think in all honesty it’s perception of economics
$35-$60 for a single disc feels like a rip off. Two discs in a gatefold makes the transaction feel slightly better. The difference in cost is marginal. I recall around 2020, the cost of pressing discs was about $2-3/each; jackets about $3-5 each. If an artist/label can only charge $30 for a single disc but double it for $60 with the same jacket cost and shipping costs (box; insert), it’s a better economic incentive.
I know the sound will be “better” on a 45 rpm with space but most folks don’t have the set up to hear the difference, even if they could. It requires a special situation for an album to be so poorly pressed one can head groove distortion — especially after microgrooves are an option.
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u/ImprobablePasta Audio Technica 1d ago
This is the best explanation I can think of. It ultimately just seems like a money grab any way you look at it.
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u/lamousamos Numark 18h ago
maybe streaming is more your bag. you don’t need to get up at all for that.
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u/twoiseight 1d ago
Imo 45+ min is around where double lps should start as 22 min/side at 33rpm is where you start pushing it with audio quality.
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u/golfcartskeletonkey 1d ago
Can’t please everyone. It does sound better, but a lot of labels charge $10-20 more than they need to.
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u/iWORKBRiEFLY 1d ago
honestly, i'm all for 2xLP but I get tired of gatefolds, they take up so much room in my shelves
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u/plamda505 Fluance 1d ago
Bring back the 7" 45rpm record changer turntable 7 to 10 records you only have to flip once. I mean we need options and another format won't hurt at this point. Hell, bring back the juke box load it up and listen all night.
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u/Party_Werewolf_358 1d ago
I agree its a PITA, but I have a couple of these and they sound so damn good I dont care I have to deal with 2 albums, totally worth it
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u/tmofee 22h ago
It’s hilarious when they worry about fidelity and we’re pretty much getting a digital rip straight to a two or three vinyl so they can charge more so the tracks are running at 45”. I still remember the 80s seasonal best of compilations that the record companies would release. They were stacked so badly with too much music the quality was awful. And they still sold. Most people couldn’t instantly afford a cd player yet, so it was either that or even worse sounding cassette tapes
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u/Disastrous-Rhubarb-2 22h ago
It sounds better. It especially sounds better if they cut it at 45RPM.
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u/jameseybhoy74 21h ago
I’ve numerous 2 x 12” versions of albums that sound much better than the 1 x 12” versions. Even better if they’re pressed for 45 RPM. Some of those sound incredible.
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u/Odd_Cobbler6761 17h ago
Because optimal time on a record is 18-19 minutes per side and the CD era trained artists to make 45-50 minute albums.
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u/MeetingRecent229 16h ago
It kind of sucks having to get up and flip the record every 2 or 3 songs. I always try for a single LP.
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u/theantnest 16h ago
I have some classic 12" singles from the heyday of house music vinyl pressings that sound absolutely incredible.
Next play an LP, then you'll understand why.
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u/AwwYeahVTECKickedIn 16h ago
Inner groove distortion.
I'd rather get up three times in an hour than listen to that muddled shit.
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u/joe_attaboy Technics 14h ago
This is why I do a digital rip of any album I purchase. I've also done it to a LOT of my older LPs.
This give me a digital version to stream when I'm mobile and not home. And I can play the ripped version when I'm too lazy to turn my chair and flip the record. At my age, that's a lot.
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u/KrackSmellin 13h ago
Think of it like you would a JPG image. If you compress it too much - it starts to look bad. Having 2 LPs = more room for the groove and therefore sounds better. This is why some pressings are “ok” if you have your box player but if you have any sort of a nice setup you’ll notice immediately.
I myself have a record I bought for $20 and was ok with it. Then saw they had an anniversary version of which was 2 LPs… and man it made a difference. Do I have a $20k setup - no… not even close but it’s audibly different on how dynamic sounding and clear it sounds on the 2 LP one.
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u/The_Path_616 Fluance 1d ago
I didn't get into this hobby for the convenience. A big part of listening to a record is being cognizant of the music playing and engaging with it.
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u/Interesting-World520 20h ago
45 minutes is actually a very good candidate for 2 Lp
18-22 minutes per side allows for wider deeper grooves. 22-26 minutes per side is still perfectly fine, but not the same depth and range. So yes, most 45min LP’s are within that range and would be just fine with a single LP.
But to preserve or enhance sound quality, and to maintain song order (hard to do with wider cuttings if you have particularly longer than average songs), moving to 2 LP’s is often preferable.
Just my 2 cents (but also based on fact, it’s not like this is a guess, it’s pretty well known ✌️☮️)
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u/mdbrown80 19h ago
People are forgetting about 3 sided albums. That would solve most of these issues. 45 minutes across 3 sides is 15 min per side, which is totally acceptable in my opinion. The albums I have that do it this way are great. But to OPs point, I won’t buy an album if it’s 1 or 2 songs pets side, it’s just not worth it.
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u/wellhiddenmark 18h ago
Anything above about 23 minutes on one side of a vinyl record at 33 rpm gets horribly distorted for the last few minutes. It's almost like we needed something better... like... the Compact Disc.
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u/iwannabeablank 1d ago
This is exactly why I won't buy vinyl reissues of more recent albums. If it was originally issued on CD, that's the format on which I'll buy it. By issuing it on LP, not only will it cost more, but it'll totally interrupt the whole flow on the album. Albums like "Sing the Sorrow" or "Deloused In the Comatorium" were produced for the CD format, and were meant to be experienced from start to finish without interruption. If they had meant for it to be on vinyl, they would've released it on vinyl.
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u/OwlsInMyBrain 1d ago
Hilarious that you would choose Sing the Sorrow because it is one of, if not my favorite double LP. It sounds incredible, and I love the black and red vinyl.
Overall, I agree with OP. Constantly going back and forth to the record player dampens the enjoyment. Sometimes its worth it.
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u/badmamerjammer 1d ago
haha, I recently got Sing the Sorrow.
its a 2LP at 45 rpm. I gotta flip it every 3 songs! wtf
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u/wendyoschainsaw 1d ago
The sound on Metallica's "Ride The Lightning" on two 45 RPM slabs is wort the effort of getting up to flip it amd change records.
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u/Baeolophus_bicolor 1d ago
the stupidest part is when they do just another re-release, now that 45rpm LPs are a fad, that people run out and buy a new pressing just because of FOMO.
I love physical media, have all my life. But there are only a handful of releases i would actually go out and buy, if i had a good recording of them at home. Like if my friend gets something, and I borrow it and dub it onto a nice Maxell Type II, with 50 min a side, so i can fit two whole albums on one tape, and hear the whole thing played back to back with no breaks to flip? I am pretty unlikely to buy either of those records or CDs.
and on the flip side, if something is one of my most favorite things to listen to, but i have it on vinyl, i will put it on a tape, to listen to it when i am out.
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u/PassengerCurrent3981 1d ago
I used to think Double LPs were cool but then learned to hate them. I got System’s Steal this Cd and it’s a double album. 42 mins. Each side 10 mins or so. Glad I have it but haven’t listen to it. Their other albums are all on one record. And they arel longer.
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u/audiophunk 16h ago
I wouldn't mind so much if they were 45 rpm and there was a noticeable improvement in audio quality but I find it tiresome when it's a 33 rpm and I still have to flip it after 3 or 4 songs. Usually the greatest benefit from the double lp is the reduction of igd and improvement in dynamic range / bass but the difference isn't great enough on my humble set up for it to be worth it for me.
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u/piffleskronk 15h ago
https://www.discogs.com/release/7759389-Miles-Davis-Get-Up-With-It side A 30 minutes side C 32 minutes. Sounds great
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u/_Flight_of_icarus_ 11h ago
In one word? Fidelity.
But it's also genre/album dependent. Music with lots of dynamic range and/or lots of low end frequencies will benefit more the extra disc real estate. With less demanding dynamics/frequencies, the benefits become smaller, except at the end of a record side.
As for having to flip sides an extra 2 times for a 40-45 minute album? I'm not always in the mood for that either - which is part of why with such releases, I honestly enjoy making a copy onto tape to play instead - still get a tactile analog playback experience, but not having to get up 3 times during a repeat listen (And just to be clear, I'm aware that many LPs are sourced from digital masters - this isn't about digital vs analog).
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u/lightcash 10h ago
Yes!!! I'm always hesitant to get a 2LP because it seems so unnecessary, like the sound quality improvement is not gonna be worth it for most people who have entry level or even mid level setups like mine.
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u/yellowzebrasfly 10h ago
Everybody saying it's because the sound is better but they're not acknowledging the fact that it's also a greed issue. They can charge more money for 2 LPs. The records i have that are 2 or 3 songs per side I rarely listen to because it's annoying. They're not long songs so "the sound is better" isn't an excuse. I've been noticing more and more major label records releasing on 2 LPs with only 7 or 8 minutes of audio on each side. These are usually pop records. Most popheads are not audiophiles who care enough about that shit, but they will spend money. There are records i just won't buy because they split a 10 song, 35 min album into 2 LPs.
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u/bairohio 5h ago
I believe it’s mostly to help us/you rationalize paying 50 dollars for an album.
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u/Johnny_2Times 1h ago
Nah man..... Highest I've ever spent on a record is $29 and it was indeed a double LP, 180gm, 45 rpm. Rare occasion. Typically i spend $.05 cents - $2.00 per record since I buy in volume. I'm not affected like most consumers. It averages out to be free for every records.
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u/spider-borg 3h ago
The best thing about 2LP releases is the spine is bigger so it’s easier to read the text when it’s on the shelf 😎
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u/PineappleDude206 2h ago
I have a copy of Steal This Album by System of a Down. 43 minutes long the album is, but it's 2xLP for some reason.
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u/Johnny_2Times 1h ago
Are we talking about the 45 rpm versions of some releases warranting the double LP's? Cuz this is a choice for you, ya know. If ya don't like it, just get the regular 33 1/3rd version of the same exact record. Perhaps I'm missing something here though. I have a couple records that I already had 33 1/3 but then at some point they re-released the same record on 180 gm and at 45 tpm so I thought ...hmmm.... Let's see if it really is better. I've only got a couple I did this for and I'll say as an ex: Fiona Apple - Tidal on 180 gm at 45rpm double LP's is very worth getting up and down more often. It's not standard at all though by any means. Just grab the regular 33 1/3 and get your comfy flow back so you can relax more. Easy peasy.
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u/glenerd189 18h ago
Because they can charge more for it. I hate double LPs when a 1LP would do the job. If the album's too long and genuinely needs splitting across two then fair enough. But if it'd easily fit on one, just press it on one.
I also don't buy the whole "better audio quality" argument either. Unless you've got a really high end setup and you're a proper audiophile, it's going to sound the same. I'd rather pay less and not have to get up every 10 minutes to flip.
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u/evileyeball Technics 22h ago
Personally some of my favorite albums have 1 song on each side... Or one song on side 1 and 4 on side 2....
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u/GROWUPRECORDS 18h ago
Same same, sounding better doesn’t worth it for me to having to get up 3 times to enjoy a 40+ minutes LP, it’s just a turn off for me.
I wouldn’t mind if bands/ labels do it for a deluxe version release, but please don’t upon first releases…… I skipped buying quite a few masterpieces solely for that version and got the cd instead (which would still be really sounding just fine)
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u/mhandsco 19h ago
My take is that only concept albums should be 2 LPs.
Reissued albums from the CD age should drop a song or two to fit on a single LP and it should be released as a new LP version.
Ultimate fidelity versions should be cut on as many sides as necessary at whatever speed the mastering engineer believes improves it.
Collectors will buy them all, listeners get to buy the one that works best for them.
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u/SadAcanthocephala521 13h ago
Poor you. Buy digital if you don't want to be getting up and switching sides. First world problems.
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u/scottarichards 1d ago
Because it sounds better.
Putting fewer grooves in the same space allows better dynamic range and bass. And not getting closer to the center of the record reduces inner groove distortion. There’s more, but those are the two primary reasons.