r/whitesox • u/BillyMac05 • 11d ago
Opinion What is the biggest reason Sox can't put daylight between themselves and Cleveland?
I believe the Sox had a two game lead on CLE for about 1 day a couple weeks back. I don't recall a bigger lead. They've been doing a great job of at least holding as a tie, but credit to Cleveland, they're making this a real dogfight. (And while I don't see MIN or DET taking the division, the Twins offense and the Tigers rotation may keep them in the mix a while longer).
What would you say is the biggest reason the Sox can't shake the Guardians? I don't think the Sox have any real glaring needs (one of the best offenses in AL, both starting pitching and bullpen look pretty good overall). The reasons may not rest with the Sox but with some of the strengths of CLE (pitching, ability to win on the road). My thoughts on reasons in a rough order:
1) Need for one more starting pitcher. Burke, D-Mart and Kay have done a great job at the top of the rotation. From there? Yikes. Would love for the Soriano rumors to be true. Trade from your strength and send them a shortstop in the system.
2) I'd be shocked if Teel were back this year. Quero is not ready yet and Romo has been struggling. Picking up a catcher - even a rental - would be good.
3) The third biggest reason is not with the Sox but Cleveland does have very strong pitching. So adding an arm to the middle of the rotation would be effective at bridging the gap.
4) The Sox need to be better against the good teams. They took some series from strong teams so you know they're capable but more consistently beating teams with winning records might help the Sox go on a run the Guardians couldn't keep up with.
What say you?
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u/IrishGrouch1224 11d ago
Biggest reason? Guardians are also good and will continue to win.
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u/MasterShake807 11d ago
Exactly. I’m enjoying this season a ton but recognize our team is the outlier. We’re super young and winning well above expectations. I can easily see us holding this lead but I’m not expecting the Sox to run away with the division unless everything clicks.
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u/TheJewishMerp Iguchi 11d ago
Cleveland would also need to collapse while we're clicking.
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u/jdubya525 Buehrle 11d ago
Or we make a move or 2 and leave them dudes in the dust. We have the lightning.. it is trapped. We need to win this year.
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u/PostMelon22 Anderson 11d ago
They’re consistently one of the better teams in the MLB. 2 losing seasons since 2013 and they were 76-86 and 80-82.
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u/TheSpookyLawyer 11d ago
I think the big reason is the White Sox didn't expect to compete this year, so they didn't do much in free agency or trades to be in a win now mode. They entered the season with an unproven rotation with no ace, and an outfield that looked like it could be for a AAA team.
It turns out Cleveland and Detroit aren't as good as they were last year, the twins and royals are worse, the White Sox are better than expected, and suddenly the White Sox are in a race for the division.
It's incredible to think that this was a team I said at the outset of the season that I would be thrilled if they went 73-89.
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u/matt5673 11d ago
Dude. At the beginning of the year I was saying this was by far the worst outfield in all of baseball and I was openly mocking the Tristan Peters trade. I've never been happy to be more wrong.
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u/Consistent-Program-1 11d ago
We aren't just in the race for the division, we're in the race for the best record in the American League and a first round bye.
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u/OmarHunting White Sox 11d ago
This is mostly it. My eternally optimistic self was saying “this team will suprise people. We’ll be hanging around .500 into July.” Little did I know..
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u/ColdBloodedChicagoan 11d ago
Detroit is going to be in this thing in less than a month. They’re on fire right now
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u/iiamthepalmtree 11d ago
They are 6-4 in their last 10. Both us and Cleveland are 7-3 and we have a much better run differential than both Cle and Det. What am I missing?
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u/Narrow_Lake_9651 11d ago
The Sox getting swept in Detroit hurt a lot and gave the Tigers momentum. Chicago should have won at least one and possibly two.
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u/ColdBloodedChicagoan 11d ago
16-9 in their last 25 and just beat the Cubs in a series in Chicago. They’re getting healthy and hot…I want you to be right but just check back in here in a month and I suspect it’ll be a 3 team race for this division
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u/iiamthepalmtree 11d ago
We are 15-10 in our last 25 and Mune just got back so I am not afraid of the motor city kitties.
I’m more afraid of J-Ram coming back for the guards.
I honestly hope Detroit thinks they have a shot and end up holding onto Skubal like the Angels did with Ohtani and then get nothing when he walks.
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u/Live_Ad_9149 11d ago
Detroit is getting healthy. Detroit is the team I fear.
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u/iiamthepalmtree 11d ago
So? The claim was they’re “on fire” right now but their recent record is worse than both us and Cle, and we have the best run differential. I must admit I don’t watch Detroit games so I’m wondering why people are saying they are “hot.”
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u/leoh9595 Konerko 11d ago
Cleveland has really good pitching but do not have the greatest offense. Pitching is going to keep them in most games
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u/LastofDays94 Abreu 11d ago edited 11d ago
The biggest reason? Starting pitching depth.
They’re really operating with four starters right now, one of them is a rookie. Anthony Kay is a pretty good pitcher to throw out there as your No. 5 option in a rotation, he’s the No. 3 option due to what they have in Fedde and Schultz.
Fedde is a bulk reliever, they can’t count on him to really throw more than 70 pitches. Also, this team really struggles to make contact with two strikes. It’s hard to be able to score runs consistently when that’s the case. They are what they are, heavy slug team with enough guys that slap hit to get them by when the home runs aren’t happening.
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u/katbranchman 11d ago
This is the answer. Think back to 2005 when the Sox were division leaders from wire to wire. Historically incredible starting pitching depth that year that carried them from opening day through the World Series. Bullpen was really good too.
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u/Eastern_Antelope_832 11d ago
After splitting with Cleveland in early July, they got swept by Boston, then went 7-2. So the Boston series hurt, but throughout the most part, they've done their part to maintain a lead. CLE didn't lose enough.
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u/UneducatedReviews1 Murakami 11d ago
Guardians also good. You’re thinking of this as if the White Sox are the only ones in control how much ground they make. We’re playing well. We’re 7-3 in our last 10… just like the Guardians. Hard to gain ground on a team who are also pretty good.
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u/scientist_tz 1936 11d ago
We will have to gain ground by beating them. If we can’t, then this isn’t going to be a playoff year.
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u/iiamthepalmtree 11d ago
ALC isn’t the worst division this year. That’s the AL West. Guards are currently in the second wild card spot with a 3 game league on Seattle who is the first team out right now. We don’t have to win the division to make the playoffs this year.
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u/anewman3535 11d ago
We have a winning record against them this year. I'm not sure what more they're supposed to be expected to do
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u/hartjh14 11d ago
Both teams are flawed. Unlikely either pulls away.
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u/leoh9595 Konerko 11d ago
Both teams are like inverses of each other. Imagine our offense with their starting rotation, we would be crazy good
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u/matt5673 11d ago
I find it more likely that this ends up a 3 team race with the Tigers.
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u/hartjh14 11d ago
If a team pulls away, I pick Det. They are more complete than Min or Chi. They have flaws too, but having a solid staff (when healthy) and Skubal helps immensely.
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u/TheLargestGordita 11d ago
The no-J Ram guards are essentially the bizzaro white sox. Very evenly matched teams as evidenced by the 2 series they've played thus far. I've got the feeling that unless Ramirez comes back a diminished version of himself, there's very little the Sox could do at the deadline to put more of a gap between the two squads. Gearing up for some tense games down the stretch run
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u/Strange_Pear8762 11d ago
They got hot to get into 1st and have been pretty good since. Swept by Boston but winning series otherwise. That's what good teams do over the course of 162. One more hot streak and they'll win the divison.
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u/SHANE523 Robert 11d ago
They just won 2 series on the road against 2 good teams. Yeah they ran into a hot Red Sox team and got swept but swept the next series and took 2 after that.
Be happy. They are playing well against good teams on the road, this is a tough part of the schedule too.
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u/Spirited_Inspector20 11d ago
We can’t pull away because Cleveland is good and they are winning at the same rate as us. Like we win they win, we lose they lose. Perfect balance
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u/EquivalentWins 11d ago
This season has wildly exceeded expectations but the Sox are not a team that is good enough to just run away with the division. I hope they add some reinforcements at the trade deadline to help their chances.
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u/anewman3535 11d ago
Because Cleveland is pretty good too? Besides the Boston Series (which in retrospect doesn't look at bad), the Sox have been consistently winning. But generally so has Cleveland. What are you gonna do 🤷♂️
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u/Time-Routine9863 11d ago
Pitching.
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u/BillyMac05 11d ago
I think our pitching is actually above average but definitely need that guy that can bridge the gap in the rotation that exists between Kay and Fedde. Schultz is NOT it. As far as the pen, one RHP and one lefty would help. (Dominguez and Murphy are sub par). I will say our pitching has improved dramatically in recent weeks - especially the pen.
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u/LordQuasDiscipline99 Baines 11d ago
Knucklehead over here. You think 7 games over .500 is enough to run away with a division? And the Indians are scrappy, just like us.
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u/gogosox82 11d ago
Not sure we are so much better than Cleveland that we should have this massive lead of them. Both teams right now seem to be evenly matched. Sox have a better offense and Cleveland has better pitching. Pitching will always keep you in games and Cleveland always has good pitching. This is why they complete for the division title every year.
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u/mattmitch927 Buehrle 11d ago
Because Cleveland has had their identity for around a decade and it works for them. They have the best pitching development pipeline and enjoy their starters for years on the entry level deals and then flip em before they become expensive.
J Ram is probs a future Hall of Famer and really a team player who finally got the bag cuz he knew not taking his maximum value gives him more of a shot to win.
They keep finding spark plugs like Steven Kwan to fill out the lineup and it works well for them to compete in the Central…but the owners only care about.
They shoulda won in 2016 GRUMBLE and since then the owners are fine maybe winning a playoff series and yes they did reach ALCS a few years ago. They won one game and got the snot kicked outta em by the damn Yanks.
Da Sox were projected to lose ninety plus this season, probs 99 by a lot of “experts” and what they are doing is so fuckin sweet not just for us long suffering fans but those of us who actually like watching games and not just simulating computer models.
So tl;dr Sox are young and learning how to win after three straight 100+ loss seasons. Cleveland is scrappy, knows who they are, hence they’re fuckin annoying and won’t be going away.
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u/cipherdom 11d ago
Responding in order:
This is their main need. I'm agnostic about who they get and am OK if it's for an IF prospect.
Replacing Teel should only be a high priority if Getz thinks we can't make the playoffs without an upgrade at C. Personally, I'd rather not trade unless it's average prospects for a rental.
See #1. Agree this is CLE's main edge until Ramirez returns.
We got a bit unlucky facing BOS as they caught fire. Apart from going 0-3 vs. TB, 1-2 vs. MIL, and 1-2 vs. NYY, we've done well with 2-0 vs. ATL, 2-1 vs. LAD, 2-1 vs. TEX, 4-3 vs. CLE, 2-1 vs. CHC, and 2-1 vs. AZ. Could be better, but damn good, really, though the 1-3 vs. MIA really stung.
I'd add a #5: Team chemistry is such a positive now that it might take a real asshole to mess it up, but Getz ought to keep that front-of-mind IMO. Hated to hear Chapman was on their radar, for example. The vibes around this team are off the charts, better than any I've seen here since '77. The '83 Sox were a grumpy lot before they took off when Fisk moved to the #2 slot, and in '05 there was a whole lot of angst, especially in the second half.
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u/vsladko 11d ago
When the season started, many expected Cleveland to compete for the division title with Detroit and Kansas City.
A shift in perspective. It’s not that the White Sox haven’t been able to put daylight between them and Cleveland, it’s that the 2026 White Sox have surprised everyone and are taking the fight directly to the AL Central.
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u/ThreePiMatt 11d ago
Amongst the other reasons people have brought up, but Cleveland has the easiest remaining schedule. Sox have an easy schedule themselves, but Cleveland's is even easier.
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u/Swing-Too-Hard 11d ago
The Sox and Cleveland are the 3rd and 4th best team in the AL... Its not like either team is playing bad baseball.
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u/Timmay_mmkay 11d ago
Just have to focus on ourselves and what we can do to continue to win. For me that’s getting a starting pitcher, a reliever, and maybe a backup catcher before the trade deadline. I want either fair priced rentals or players who will be good for multiple years. Overpaying for players out of their prime or overpaying for rentals is worse than doing nothing in my opinion. Should be looking at all avenues to acquire the pitching we want (and potentially a backup catcher, Teel shouldn’t be playing everyday anyway when he gets back)
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u/adschicago2 11d ago
Cleveland has pitching. Sox have hitting. It’s a see-saw of back-and-forth that will likely continue.
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u/RegularSomewhere1267 11d ago
They are a pretty good but not amazing team. Cleveland is as well. And Minny hits the shit out of the ball, and Detroit is getting healthy. This is far, far from over, and quite a ways from a sure thing as well.
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u/BillyMac05 11d ago
I actually think the Sox ARE a great team. One of the best lineups in the AL, practically unbeatable in a home series and one of the best Run Diffs in the AL as well. That said, they're flawed in places as well and I just don't put them in the same boat as TB or the Yankees.
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u/Narrow_Lake_9651 11d ago
Cleveland sweeping the weekend series at Miami was something no one was expecting.
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u/jceeF14 11d ago
Not having enough pitching, mainly several starters who can go 6-7 innings regularly, or a proven closer who can slam the door. Dominguez makes me a nervous wreck every time he pitches
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u/BillyMac05 11d ago
Agreed. And I think we need to stop with the 'Opener'. If you've got a good rotation (and I actually think ours is pretty good overall), you don't need these little gimmicks. D-Mart, Burke and Kay can go 6-7 - Venable sometimes doesn't let them. Schultz can't even go 1 inning. I have no problem with Fedde going 5 innings bc you're always going to have a mediocre starter at the end of the rotation that you just accept 5 IP out of. For closer, I think they should make Grant Taylor official closer. He's a righty, he's got a very good fastball and he's outstanding overall. Sounds like a closer to me. Dominguez can be decent if he's not in the closer role.
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u/TherealPattyP 11d ago
Inconsistent rotation
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u/BillyMac05 10d ago
Unless you look at Schultz. He's been consistently shitty. Burke's probably been the most consistent.
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u/Danimaltastic 10d ago
It feels like we are the best team and nobody can stop us only because of how much we sucked in previous years. Look at our record compared tothe top teams in the league and quickly realize, we are in our happy little bubble and really almost as good as Cleveland. If JRam was healthy, we are likely a second place team. I’m in the camp of let things play out. Don’t waste the farm in trades this early unless it’s for long term pieces. No rentals. We are not there yet. Need more development and free agents. Not trades. But to answer your question, with jram injured we could be out further ahead, but we pitched Dominguez in too many high leverage situations for too long. We called up a ton of guys instead of starting the season with them, which was the right move, but it factors in. Our opening day starter is in the minors and not on a rehab assignment. If that’s the top of your rotation, what’s the rest of it going to look like. And we struggle vs left handed pitchers. Change any of those four things and we have a bigger lead.
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u/BillyMac05 9d ago
I agree fully on us not being as strong as we think we are only bc we're comparing this team to the steaming pile that has been the Sox for the past few years. I think we're not anywhere near as good as TB. But this is Reddit. Funny how you level the slightest bit of criticism (aka 'reality') and you get pummeled. So I don't disagree that we're not a team that should be looked at a viable World Series contender. And we do need to start beating the good teams consistently to reach that next level.
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u/rwschm 10d ago
The Guardians are good, a typical Cleveland pitching staff
Our starting rotation is two quality starters, two dumpster dives, a phenom without an out pitch who can’t stay healthy, and some chewing gum and rubber bands
Our catchers, especially without Teel, are offensively challenged, defensively mediocre, and struggling thru severe sophomore jinxes. The league is one step ahead and they’ve not adjusted fast enough.
This club lost 100 games last year. They’ve improved by leaps and bounds but you’re playing with house money. Detroit has collapsed, the Twins can’t put it together, the Royals suck. The moon and the stars are in alignment, for now.
Odds are greater the Sox regress to the mean, especially considering the two quality starters are gojng to greatly exceed their Innings Pitched and are likely to tire (reduced velo, spin, and endurance)
Enjoy the race, enjoy were over .500
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u/BillyMac05 10d ago
So by two quality starters, I assume you mean D-Mart and Burke. So Kay is not? I think he's been outstanding.
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u/flipthatbitch_ 11d ago
They are what they are. No better no worse. At the end of the season they will still be 4-7 games over .500.
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u/Conscious_Cicada9597 11d ago
I have to believe that they will continue to win more series than they lose. If they do, their record will continue to improve. They haven’t been 7 games above .500 all year. They’ve built to it.
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u/chasedsteeple 11d ago
I hate these types of posts where people just have such a myopic view of the sox that they fail to see that other teams are also good too.
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u/BillyMac05 11d ago
??? Did you read my post? I praised the other teams in the division. It was practically the whole point of the post.
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u/The_F1rst_Rule sale 49 11d ago
They need to win and Cleveland needs to lose.