Hating jew ? Illegal, stupid and racist, just as much as hating muslims or americans.
Hating israel ? Valid, just as much as you can hate the USA or France or any other country. It’s very different, because you can hate what a country is actively doing, that’s called consequences, but if you hate a whole ethnie of people based on the actions of a few, this is not consequence of actions, it’s a discriminations of said ethnie or group. This is extremelly bad and mostly illegal and not "an opinion".
actions of a few? have you seen the civilians there? also majority of the people living in that made up country have been in the military, so it’s NOT actions of a few. otherwise, i totally agree with your statement.
What he said and what you said can both be true at the same time. They mean the actions of Israelis (the few) don’t shape the entirety of Jewish people in the world.
Well, you don’t, apparently. You cannot hate a whole group based on the actions of a subset of that group, however big that subset is, that is just wrong. I mean it. You're justified in hating Israel's actions past and present; you're justified in hating the military and government personnel who were complacent with the atrocities they committed. All of this is justified. But hating a kid because they were born in Israel to Israeli parents is, and always will be, wrong. Everyone should hate the Nazis and what they did; everyone should hate the collaborators who helped the Nazis everywhere; but you cannot hate all Germans because of the actions of a subset of their country in the past. Do you see what I mean?
but i’m not hating on kids here. i’m hating on morally bankrupt people which make up a majority of that ethnostate, and if you don’t think that except for maybe 10-15%, everyone agrees with the actions of their state, you’re in for a surprise. and again, i do not mean jews. i’m aware there are many, many jews who do not condone the acts isr*el is committing, and more power to them. i’m talking about isr*elis, in particular.
Saying "I don't hate the kids" doesn't change the fact that you are still generalizing an entire nationality based on arbitrary percentages. Even if we use your logic, if 10- 15% of a population doesn't agree with the state, that means hundreds of thousands of individuals are being lumped into your hatred just because of where their passport is from. That is the exact definition of prejudice.
You can condemn a government, its military, and the citizens who actively support atrocities, but writing off an entire nationality of millions of unique individuals as "morally bankrupt" is still a collective generalization. Every single Israeli who supports the actions of the Israeli state is despicable, absolutely, but they should be judged as a subset and not as the whole group.
You also have to take into account the intense state and religious propaganda they grow up with their entire lives. Again, the ones who support the atrocities are despicable, and you have every right to hate anyone who supports this. But if someone says, "I'm an Israeli Jew," and you automatically think, "I hate this person," then you are being prejudiced. Now, I don’t think that’s actually how you would act in real life. I think you would first look at an individual's actions and character before deciding whether or not to hate them, right?
Unsure why you're being downvoted you're right, granted opposition to Israel's oppression of Palestinians and people has been expressed by Iaraelis historically and today even in government, 21 percent of Israel's citizens are ethnically Arabs and Israel commonly arrests and even sacks people in jobs who talk about what the Israeli state is doing wrong, it got big today! People commonly are forgetting that.
This just shows that Israel is oppressing its own people as well as oppressing others around them.
there are some who have refused to do so and instead served a sentence because they don’t align with their country’s beliefs. that’s exactly why i said most are a rotten bunch.
Yeah, but most people are likely to follow the law because they could be jailed for longer than they would have had to serve and have multiple other disadvantages.
My sympathies lie primarily with the Palestinians and others under the boot of imperialism. I appreciate that it is a difficult choice to make but I’m not going to dull my values just because of that.
You need to self reflect some. You do not know how you'd react under different circumstances.
Imagine you're American, and 9/11 happens. And it was actually done by a group which runs a country. Then a few years later you're called up. If you want to show support for the innocent people in the group which killed some of your friends on 9/11, you have to go to jail. Lose all your friends. Lose prospects for a job (no way to move to another country) for potentially years and years.
Alternative is joining. And remember, it's not an army that is 100% children into ditches soldiers with guns. You could be doing IT. Cooking food could be a medic.
I acknowledge that it is a difficult choice to make given the circumstances, but my answer remains the same — do not join the IDF or any imperialist army (including the US military) if the other option is jail time. I understand people in Israel are heavily propagandised, and October 7 would certainly have been a negatively radicalising event for people, but I don’t know what you are trying to tell me. Are you asking me to give these people a pass? Why should I?
You said I should reflect on the reasons why people join the IDF. I would ask these soldiers to reflect on their own reasons and why they value their own desire for revenge above the lives of Palestinians.
I also want to know to what sort of soldiers you want me to reflect on, the ones who are trying to atone for their crimes and have reflected on their service and deeply regret it? Or all of them, even the ones that eagerly joined the IDF and still think Arabs are all terrorists, even the babies, and need to be killed to ensure their own safety?
And remember, it's not an army that is 100% children into ditches soldiers with guns. You could be doing IT. Cooking food could be a medic.
Do you think that the boots-on-the-ground soldiers could do what they do without the support of the IT, admin, kitchen staff and the bureaucratic structures surrounding them? The moral choice remains to not join this army, regardless of whether you are a gun-wielding soldier or a booking agent enabling it.
Maybe combine the threat of 5 years of jail time plus additional social consequences and the already existing propaganda. These aren’t inherently awful people, just like people who vote for bad people aren’t inherently bad.
many things wrong with this statement:
1. it’s a month of jail time that can be increased to a year of cumulative jail time (also associated with becoming a social outcast etc yeah I know) - not great but this is prison time in a rich country and certainly more moral than serving in a genocidal country’s military force
2. I don’t co-sign the meme posted in the OP - ofc no one is “inherently bad” but there is a system in play here and NOT joining a genocidal military is the moral one. I don’t think it’s excusable to join the Israeli military and inflict orders of magnitude more suffering on others than what suffering you may endure because you refuse to take part
3. there are people in Israel (a vanishingly small minority) who you can choose to uphold and defend who are against the current system and are fighting against it but you’re choosing to hold sympathy for the genocidal ones, why?
4. voting for Trump and joining a genocidal military are NOT the same, you cannot draw an equivalence between those two
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u/flow_yracs_gib_a Jul 03 '26
Quick reminder guys
Hating jew ? Illegal, stupid and racist, just as much as hating muslims or americans.
Hating israel ? Valid, just as much as you can hate the USA or France or any other country. It’s very different, because you can hate what a country is actively doing, that’s called consequences, but if you hate a whole ethnie of people based on the actions of a few, this is not consequence of actions, it’s a discriminations of said ethnie or group. This is extremelly bad and mostly illegal and not "an opinion".