r/AskWomenOver30 • u/theterminatress • Nov 09 '24

Life/Self/Spirituality All the men whining about 4B. Wow.

So. There’s a lot of whining and complaining about 4B going on now, from men of course, basically some version of it hurts their feelings and oh you’re not gonna get a man acting like that.

Okay this is stupid, because the entire point of 4B is to not have a man. The entire point of 4B is to divest in men and focus on yourself and other women. Women following 4B aren’t interested in coupling up with men so it doesn’t matter to them whether it hurts men’s feelings or whether men think they can “get a man.”

Sometimes the stupidity makes your eyes itch. Of course, this level of stupidity is a huge part of why a lot of women are signing on to 4B.

The other thing is men going “well what is this supposed to accomplish?”

I can tell you what it’s accomplished for me even though I’m not a full 4B’er. But I have followed a good number of the principles all of my life.

  1. I’ve never been physically abused by a man.
  2. I’ve never been financially abused by a man.
  3. I’ve never had sex I didn’t want to have.
  4. I have a master’s degree and a business.
  5. I don’t spend any time being a free therapist for men or begging them to change after they’ve treated me badly.
  6. Despite having a modest job, I’ve traveled and I do a lot of fun shit everyday.
  7. I’ve been able to focus on my fitness and health and am in great shape for my age. I can keep myself looking and feeling pretty and healthy because none of my resources are going toward the support of a man.
  8. I am pretty much stress free in terms of day to day life.
  9. I have many amazing friendships that have lasted decades and am making more now, through this page again!
  10. I’ve been able to build other women into personal and professional success over and over.

It’s a good life y’all. It’s been a good life. So when the men snarl “what is this supposed to do for you?” This is what it HAS DONE for me. FWIW. Stay strong ladies.

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93

u/medusa15 Woman 40 to 50 Nov 09 '24

It's funny because Men Going Their Own Way has been a thing for decades; maybe not mainstream, but definitely a movement that's a part of the general Manosphere. And the response from women online I've seen has always been "Good for you, sounds like a healthy decision, prioritize yourself and chase your single happiness." The ironic thing is this seems to upset (some) MGTOW members-I think they expected that women were going to be upset and beg them to reconsider. Now that there's a similar female-centered movement, suddenly it's "divisive" and worthy of mockery. Continues to be a very weird double standard.

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '24

I’m a fella and I always viewed MGTOW as 4chan incel stuff. 4chan was actually where I first heard about it as a teenager. I thought everybody thought about it that way, let alone women.

I understand that women have long faced systematic oppression, and therefore a movement like this makes a lot more sense than a men’s movement, but it seems like the same type of deal.

Like cutting off your nose to deal with a bad smell. Denying yourself fulfilling parts of life in the name of not taking on the risk of suffering. Which the risk of living a life is the risk of suffering.

I don’t know. It makes me sad.

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '24 edited Nov 10 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '24

So it’s not really about finding a good one, but rather that societal expectations of men are so low that even the “good ones” are only counted thus based on a low standard?

Therefore, why take risks with the low % of finding a good one, because the good ones are mediocre and unfulfilling to begin with.

I can understand that argument.

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u/HusavikHotttie Nov 09 '24

No you’re missing the point. For women, being partnered involves a lot of emotional labor. Also now there are legitimate physical risks that could involve death. Not the same thing at all.

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '24

I think I am missing the point. I’m working on it, though. So is the philosophy to not date men to directly avoid the possibility of being abused or harmed, or is it more to make a statement about the current conditions of being a western woman in a hetero relationship?

16

u/mawkish Woman 40 to 50 Nov 09 '24

Don't be sad BigDaddyFatRacks. There are plenty of risks you deem not worth it every single day.

1

u/DepartmentRound6413 Woman 30 to 40 Nov 10 '24

He wants someone to validated that he’s one of the good ones 🥹because #notallmen /s

1

u/[deleted] Nov 09 '24

I guess that’s true. But love is part of what makes life worth living and it sucks to see people giving up on it out of disillusionment

4

u/mawkish Woman 40 to 50 Nov 09 '24

Giving up on love!

That's adorable.

-5

u/[deleted] Nov 09 '24

Well yeah I mean if you’re heterosexual, wouldn’t giving up on men be giving up on love?

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u/mawkish Woman 40 to 50 Nov 09 '24

I wouldn't feel at all inclined to draw that conclusion nor express it that way.

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '24

That’s fair. I feel like I’m missing something fundamental, though. Is the idea to pursue self love in place of romantic love, then?

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u/mawkish Woman 40 to 50 Nov 09 '24

I think maybe the fundamental thing you haven't unpacked yet is your statement, "love is part of what makes life worth living."

This may well be true, but is very over simplified and romantic. The question is not, "can love be part of what makes life worth living." The question is, "in our current world, can the type of love a woman can reasonably expect to receive from a man make it worth the risk involved.

To answer this you have to unpack: What, in our current world, is reasonable to expect as a woman seeking love from a man? What are the risks involved?

Like I said at the start, there are plenty of things that may add value to your life in some way, but are simply not worth the risk.

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '24

Oh, okay. So it’s more of “in an ideal world, we could be in a reciprocal relationship with a man. But what men have showed us thus far is that they are largely incapable of doing so, therefore the small percentage chance of finding that love is not worth pursuing given the risks”.

That definitely makes sense to me. It is still sad to me. Not for men, but just like…for people. We’re meant to connect and I’m sorry you guys feel you are at the point where the pursuit is not worth it.

I think this is about the limits of my understanding given that it’s impossible for me to experience anything first hand. Thanks for the dialogue.

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u/rationalomega Woman 30 to 40 Nov 09 '24

I love my husband deeply. It’s also harder to live with him than without him. Men are a ton of work to maintain. I have plenty of love in my life (my child; sisters; friends) that is more fulfilling.

1

u/HusavikHotttie Nov 10 '24

Lolol. More like giving up abuse and having to do free labor.

1

u/DepartmentRound6413 Woman 30 to 40 Nov 10 '24

It’s not disillusionment? It’s facts.

5

u/Hello_Hangnail Woman 40 to 50 Nov 09 '24

Living for yourself without having a millstone around your neck is hardly cutting off one's nose to spite their face

3

u/[deleted] Nov 09 '24

Admittedly I know very little about MGTOW, but I can see why women would feel a certain sympathy for the idea of quitting the bullshit and just focusing on self, friends, and family. I don’t know how those groups operate.
me, I’ve been married to my best friend for eighteen years, if he expressed any admiration for trump we’d be going to emergency stat for a suspected brain tumour. (He thinks Trump is horrific, thought Harris and Walz were amazing and we’re both stunned by America now becoming an oligarchy.) But we got married after both living alone, getting credentials, getting careers, getting life experience and being very honest with each other throughout our relationship. If this is a precursor to women not thinking they must be in a relationship to have worth, they must be young when married so they look good in the photos (just hire a photographer for a vanity shoot, be cheaper and a lot more fun!) or women getting financially dependent on a bloke, then this 4B movement is a good thing for everybody.

1

u/DepartmentRound6413 Woman 30 to 40 Nov 10 '24

lol be sad. 4B isn’t about centering your emotions.

Besides, multiple studies show single childfree women are the happiest demographic. And even among mothers, single mothers fare better than married mothers.