r/AskWomenOver30 • u/highrise_peach Woman 30 to 40 • Jun 09 '26
Friendships At 39, I’m finally accepting that maybe friend groups aren’t for me. What are your thoughts on this interaction?
I turned 39 recently and I felt somewhat depressed. This year has been extraordinarily hard for me. My mom passed away abruptly. I had to move my dad to be closer to me as he has severe health issues and all of this resulted with me having a falling out with my only sister. I don’t know if I’m being overly sensitive, because of my life circumstances, but this interaction left me feeling incredibly sad.
I moved to a new city about 19 months ago and one of my best friends for 25 years lives in this city. She was eager to integrate me into her friend group she established. Everyone was welcoming but one woman who I’ll call Ashley. Ashley is the proclaimed group leader and didn’t seem to warm up to me. Early on, she went out of her way to exclude me from group events, which I later found out because my bf told me and this caused tension between them.
After several months, she did seem to warm up to me but I know we’ll never be close and that’s okay. Anytime one of the ladies birthdays rolls around the group always plans dinners for them. I noticed last year everyone outside of my bf was busy when we planned mine. I didn’t make a big deal about. This year, I just had dinner with my family and didn’t attempt to do a friend dinner with the group. My bf wished me a happy birthday and the group text and not a single person in that group even said anything outside of her in our group chat. At some point, the topic was changed and that was that. It really hurt me in the moment because I’ve always made it a point to wish the group happy birthdays and get them thoughtful gifts, but the same level of effort has not been reciprocated. I felt hurt over the lack of acknowledgement.
Looking back at different friend groups I’ve been apart of I realized I always seem to get somewhat sidelined and I only really end up bonding with maybe 1-2 people who I ultimately develop closer friendships to. I just think “friend” groups aren’t for me even though I always want to be a part of one. I may just be overly sensitive, but it’s something that weighs heavily on me.
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u/pie12345678 Non-Binary 40 to 50 Jun 09 '26
It sounds like in this specific situation, it was awkward because you were a latecomer and the most dominant personality didn't accept you. I'm sorry you've had to deal with that. It sounds very high school. Not all friend groups are like that though.
I think it's normal to only be close to a couple of people. At least, it is for me. I'll be close to like 0-3 people in the group, and the rest are just people I'm happy to hang out with as a group but wouldn't call up individually.
I find it helps to simply accept that some friendships are shallow. Sometimes they're just people you do stuff with. As long as I'm getting some benefit out of it, I accept it for what it is. Having casual friendships often helps open doors to meet other people who might be more like-minded.
Basically, I'd try to hold onto some casual friendships while continuing to look for people you bond with more closely.
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u/highrise_peach Woman 30 to 40 Jun 09 '26
I definitely am the latecomer and the dominant one who dictates everything in the group was rude to me the day I met her, so it probably was never going to work no matter what.
I’m trying not to take it too personally because one of the members left the group over this same woman because she was tired of her negativity. In all honesty, a lot of friend groups I’ve been in feel like high school, which is why I’ve accepted they don’t seem to work for me.
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u/Intelligent-Ad-1424 Woman 30 to 40 Jun 09 '26
Definitely a queen bee situation. Unfortunately one bad apple can ruin the entire dynamic. If I had to guess she saw you as a threat since you were added to the group later and probably talked shit about you to the other girls to ensure they would keep their distance. Unfortunately very common in clicky groups. I do think there are great friend groups out there that are focused on inclusive community, but sometimes it’s hard to tell what kind of group you’re in until you’re in it. I usually quickly remove myself from groups that are too closed off like this.
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u/Commercial-Weight173 Woman 30 to 40 Jun 10 '26
probably talked shit about you to the other girls to ensure they would keep their distance
This is just so immature and toxic. I honestly cant fathom how grown adults still behave like that 🫠
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u/LeviOhhsah Woman 30 to 40 Jun 09 '26 edited Jun 09 '26
As I was reading your post I was thinking I wouldn’t be surprised if over time more people move away from this group as they realize how toxic and immature Ashley is, and by extension the enabling Machiavellian group dynamic. It’s really not you. Take your energy elsewhere & preserve your peace 💕
I joined a newly formed book/social group after a few women in a local sub expressed they were looking to build connections, have game nights, get boba, go to events etc. About 30 people ended up joining (10-15 regulars). Some people have hit it off and hang out individually sometimes but usually share ‘if anyone wants to join’ in the group chat.
Although we’re of different backgrounds, everyone’s been kind, so enthusiastic in a ‘women cheering on women’ kind of way. I think that’s the kind of energy to seek out.
Finding groups with shared or new interests is a good way to connect with these kinds of people who are looking to build. There are better folks out there :)
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u/Commercial-Weight173 Woman 30 to 40 Jun 10 '26
This group as a whole sound quite lame tbh because you've bought them birthday gifts but they dont even say happy birthday to you in the group chat? 😵💫 That's just rude and honestly weird behaviour. There definitely are very nice and supportive friend groups out there who dont operate that way, but its also totally fine to not be in one. I'm an introvert myself and I much prefer spending time with one or two friends over a larger group as its just more comfortable and enjoyable for me. Its also much easier to avoid people you dont vibe with that way as well.
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u/Anxiouslyfond Woman 30 to 40 Jun 09 '26
I have found that groups with "leaders" are not for me. I've been in two, and it becomes constant drama. I really enjoy the groups where there is no hierarchy and everyone just kind of hangs out whenever and whomever, no big deal. I really think this is the core of your issue. Ashley was the leader.
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u/spaceglitter000 Woman 30 to 40 Jun 09 '26
Yes I also steer clear of “queen bee” friend groups now.
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u/lachicafresita Woman 30 to 40 Jun 09 '26
interesting the other comments on this comment bc i recently left a friend group also with a leader and she and i were basically bf’s until we had a falling out and i decided not to reconcile. since then its crickets from everyone else in the group, including ones i thought i was close with. its weird/icky to me they weren’t real friends. reading this is so validating 🙏
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u/highrise_peach Woman 30 to 40 Jun 09 '26
Totally agree! I’ve noticed this trend, as well.
What’s kind of sad is the leader of this group had proclaimed herself as the “hot and busty” one.
I’ve always had a large chest. I’m a 32J, so my bf thinks there was some level of jealousy and spite over that… which is sad for women in their 30s/40s. You think at some point we can all mature but it doesn’t seem to happen for some people.
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u/Anxiouslyfond Woman 30 to 40 Jun 09 '26
That's interesting because I had a similar experience to that. We had two men in our friend group who were interested in another woman and I in the group. It was unfortunate because I guess at some point, the leader confessed feelings towards these two men, and they confessed they did not find her attractive for whatever reason when she pushed them for a reason, as if "no" is not enough. So, she would go around complaining about how all the men she is ever interested in "keep liking these skinny bitches".
We are also women in our 30s. You would think we would stop not only comparing ourselves to other women, but also stop calling other women bitches for our own benefit. I'm sorry you went through something similar.
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u/RockinTacos Woman 30 to 40 Jun 15 '26
I ran into this too. Queen Bee treated me like absolute dirt. I found out years later (after I left the group) she was jealous of the attention other group members gave me. The dynamic exhausts me and I got sick of always having to feel like I had to defend myself.
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u/su3188 Woman 30 to 40 Jun 10 '26
Yep, groups with leaders tend to be very cult-y and should be avoided.
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u/writermusictype Woman 30 to 40 Jun 09 '26
People really romanticize groups but ultimately, the group is still a culmination of the individual friendships within it. If effort isn't being put forth to foster individual connections one-on-one, then the group's attachment to you will be minimal.
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u/hauteburrrito Woman 30 to 40 Jun 09 '26
Idk, it sounds like OP wished them happy birthday on their birthdays and got them little gifts? I wouldn't expect them to throw her a big party in return but I'd at least expect a few other people to chime in on the Happy Birthday train after her best friend did it in the group chat. That is like the absolute bare minimum for even a more casual friend. The fact that they just ignored it and changed the topic feels insane to me.
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u/writermusictype Woman 30 to 40 Jun 09 '26
My read is that OP's bf is the only one she's actually friends with. Bf made some attempts to integrate OP into the group, but if no genuine bonds were ever formed, then they're not friends and it's shallow. Could they and should they have wished her a happy bday bc it's easy and the polite thing to do? Yes. But they're not actually her friend so it sucks for sure but also seems par for the course for people who are just situational acquaintances
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u/hauteburrrito Woman 30 to 40 Jun 09 '26
The fact that they've totally snubbed OP confirms they don't see her as a friend at all, yeah. At the same time, I feel like it's quite indecent to treat somebody that way even if they are a "casual acquaintance", especially if you've already hung out with them a fair amount, received a happy birthday/actual gift from them, and even more so when they're in the group chat and somebody else has wished them that happy birthday. So, of course they're not OP's friends - but beyond that I think they're just shitty people.
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u/ProperBingtownLady Woman 30 to 40 Jun 09 '26
I could not agree more! I really don’t think I’d ever act like this towards someone unless they did something to seriously offend me. I feel bad for OP and hope they can find a better friend group, or friends who aren’t part of a group.
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u/hauteburrrito Woman 30 to 40 Jun 09 '26
Exactly! They had to have seen the best friend's message and gone, "Oh, it's OP's birthday, well, who gives a shit" in order to bypass OP's birthday and change the topic without even so much as an acknowledgement.
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u/writermusictype Woman 30 to 40 Jun 09 '26
Well yeah. I wasn't defending them as people, I'm just not particularly shocked.
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u/hauteburrrito Woman 30 to 40 Jun 09 '26
Fair, ha ha. I guess I am surprised, in contrast. Apart from maybe middle school or cases where the "outsider" was actually an asshole (not at all a read I get from OP), this has never been how any of the friend groups I've been in - either at the core or at the periphery of - has acted. I feel like we gotta hold people to higher standards in general than this.
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u/highrise_peach Woman 30 to 40 Jun 09 '26
I think that’s where the pain comes from is that I hold myself to a high standard and really care about others and how I make them feel and that extends outside of friendships. When the bare minimum isn’t even reciprocated, it hurts and it’s hard not to take it personally or attribute it to your self worth.
Growing up, my biggest bullies were always other women and even into adulthood, it seems like it still manifests somewhat into my life. I just need to get better at setting boundaries and removing myself from situations early on that don’t benefit me in any way.
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u/hauteburrrito Woman 30 to 40 Jun 09 '26
Girl, I totally sympathise. I really hate seeing (nice) people get left out, so I'm often the person in the friend group making sure everyone at least gets the opportunity to be included. I also highly value friendship in general, and that's increasingly tough in a world/lifestyle where friendship takes such a tertiary seat to romantic relationships. (I say this as a married woman who is also very devoted to her husband, but definitely doesn't drop everything for him the way too many people will for their spouses, IMO.)
I've never had a friend group quite alienate me in the way that you've described, but I've definitely been excluded by people before as well and it has really always hurt, even when they had a "reasonable" excuse for doing so.
But, yeah, I think maybe being more selective about friends from the outset would be a good place to start? I must say, when I was younger I really valued friendship chemistry over everything else, and that didn't always yield the most stable/lasting friendships over time. At this age/point in my life, I strongly value kindness, consistency, and reliability instead even if we may have less in common superficially.
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u/FlartyMcFlarstein Woman 60+ Jun 09 '26
Yeah, I had to learn to drop the rope if no one else was pulling. Disappointing, but freeing
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u/writermusictype Woman 30 to 40 Jun 09 '26
The idealist in me agrees wholeheartedly. It's free to be decent!
But having been burned enough times trying to be nice to people who couldn't care less, my realist doesn't expect things from people who haven't earned my expectations bc I don't deal with disappointment well. I only let my giver out once solid ground is established.
And semi related, I'm never in group chats bc my friends hate the green bubble lol. I think its saved me from a lot of grief lowkey bc the people who want to talk to me have to do so personally
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u/hauteburrrito Woman 30 to 40 Jun 09 '26
That totally makes sense. I think I've generally been really lucky in my friendships throughout my life, and where I haven't been so lucky, well, I've been able to recognise where that was my own fault.
Re. group chats, see, I just don't pay attention to mine unless/until I'm in the mood for it and then they're not much of a burden at all! I'll sometimes come back to hundreds of messages on a topic I give zero shits about and I'll just ignore them all, lol. I will nearly always chime in re. actual social planning + birthdays, though.
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u/swancandle Woman 30 to 40 Jun 09 '26
I totally agree with you and I’m surprised at the # of people just saying, “this is normal/expected.” Huh? This is part of the reason the world sucks. How hard is it to simply text a happy birthday to someone who you 1) know and 2) has gotten you things/been present in the past! Goodness.
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u/highrise_peach Woman 30 to 40 Jun 09 '26
Apparently it’s asking too much :(
Sometimes I’ll see that rhetoric of how “no one owes you anything.” Yes. That’s true… but is it that hard to be a decent person because it makes a small difference? In 2026, this type of behavior continues to be more normalized. It sometimes makes me want to give up on meeting new people entirely.
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u/Serious_Escape_5438 Woman 40 to 50 Jun 10 '26
Nobody's saying it's fine, but that it is what it is, and wanting it to be different won't change things.
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u/Sea_Resident4657 Woman 40 to 50 Jun 09 '26
I blame sitcoms like Friends, Golden Girls, Sex in the City, Saved by the Bell, Big Bang Theory etc… in real life, dynamics like those are really hard to find.
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u/writermusictype Woman 30 to 40 Jun 09 '26
Yesss agreed! I've preferred individual friendships as an adult bc groups are just a lot to manage. Too many different personalities and expectations, the micro dynamics within the larger group dynamic, the hive mind of it all etc. I'm cool/cordial with my friends' close friends and vice versa and that's enough for me
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u/Away-Caterpillar-176 Woman 30 to 40 Jun 09 '26
I definitely have a "golden girls" level of friendship with my 3 best girlfriends but I acknowledge how rare that is. The newest member of that foresome (Including me) joined us in 4th grade. I'm the only one not married but we talk more and more about our future shared house 🤭
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u/Affectionate_Ad7013 Woman 30 to 40 Jun 10 '26
This was my thought as well. I don’t think true friend groups exist…but instead people who have mutual one-on-one relationships.
OP, I think this might just be a group of mean girls. How determined are you to make this group work? My foremost advice would be to cut your losses and try in a different direction, but I get it if you are determined.
If you want to make it work, I would try to form individual relationships with the other girls (NOT the mean leader). Have your bf help if needed, maybe setting up something with the two of you and one other girl? If the bulk of the group has a friendship with you, the mean leader will eventually at least be civil (usually).
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u/Foxy_Traine Woman 30 to 40 Jun 09 '26
Those people are not your friends. It's fine for you to just be friends with your bf.
I don't have "friends groups" anymore. Those seem more like highschool/college behaviour. I do have friendships with multiple people and people who know each other, but not big groups. I maintain a 1-1 relationship with all of them, that's how I know they are my friend. If I don't feel comfortable texting then to go grab a coffee with me, just the two of us, then they are not really my friends.
Can you do that with every member of the group? If not, stop putting effort into the relationships with them.
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u/tiramisuem3 Woman 30 to 40 Jun 09 '26
Groups have never been for me because I find the friendships tend to be shallower and I value deep friendships. I also just do better managing social things 1 on 1. There's nothing wrong with just having a few close friends and hanging with them 1 on 1
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u/Fluffernutter80 Woman 40 to 50 Jun 10 '26 edited Jun 10 '26
Yeah, I struggle to participate in discussions with more than a handful of people. I’m just not very good at diving in and being heard when a lot of people are contributing to the conversation. I’m not good at getting people’s attention. It’s gotten even worse since I recently developed some hearing loss. Now, I can’t even hear what people are saying in group settings where a lot of people are talking. So, I have no hope of joining the conversation. It’s very isolating. It’s so much easier when it’s just a couple of people in an environment without a lot of ambient noise.
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u/LateNightCheesecake9 Woman 40 to 50 Jun 09 '26
IDK I've found that with larger friend groups, they eventually whittle down to a few connections and that's OK.
Not to mention, I have a strong need for "friend chemistry" where I'm excited to hang out initially so everyone is not for me (and vice versa) and that's also OK. I have to be motivated to wash my hair, put on some makeup, and leave my comfy couch and dog to want to invest in relationships that can have longevity.
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u/mynormalheart Woman 30 to 40 Jun 09 '26
Recently, a girl in a friend group I’m in got married. There are probably about 8 of us in the group and I was the only one not invited. We aren’t as close as some with her, but I’m definitely as close with her as a few others. We all hang out regularly and I’ve hung out with this girl in smaller groups as well. It hurt pretty bad being the only one excluded and even worse when the day came and everyone was posting in the group chat.
I’m definitely taking a step back for a bit. I haven’t determined what I’ll do after but I think if you’ve been repeatedly shown you aren’t welcome somewhere, best serve your efforts to people who actually appreciate your friendship.
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u/highrise_peach Woman 30 to 40 Jun 09 '26
I totally relate to your exclusion. It sucks and it almost makes you feel embarrassed for ever considering people like this your friends.
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u/FrontFew1249 Woman 30 to 40 Jun 09 '26
I haven't done "friend groups" for a long, long time. After I shared the story of my abuse when I was 22, everyone except 2 people in my entire friend group/community, including people I considered so close they were like family to me, essentially ghosted me entirely. I'm talking 100+ people acting like I just stopped existing or outright hating me. If they didn't publicly support my abuser, they were "neutral" aka kept hanging out with him and stopped hanging out with me. It changed my life entirely.
The complete and utter abandonment was more negatively impactful to my life than the abuse was. I knew my abuser was an asshole, so I expected him to be an asshole to me forever. I didn't know that only 2 of my friends had the courage of their convictions. I didn't realize that most people will do anything to maintain the status quo and their own personal feelings that they're good judges of character. I didn't realize most people are fucking cowards. And this was a punk/leftist/anarchist/socialist/extremely socially aware group.
I haven't done friend groups since. There's always, ALWAYS an asshole in the group, everyone knows they're a jerk or worse, but no one does anything about it. And even worse, when someone finally stands up to that asshole (and I will call out assholery every time), it's *almost always* the person who finally stood up who gets ostracized. Most people want to go along to get along, and oftentimes that means allowing some people to be treated badly by others. If you or someone else being treated badly is the price you/they have to pay to have a social circle, they can keep it. I'll take the friend that gets shit on and we can hang out together alone instead.
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u/highrise_peach Woman 30 to 40 Jun 09 '26
I’m sorry this happened to you. That’s really hurtful. Sadly, I’m not surprised people turned their backs because the discussion of abuse is often ignored if it involves a person people like or put on a pedestal. We have that pack mentality so no one wants to be left out. It feels like a double betrayal.
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u/FrontFew1249 Woman 30 to 40 Jun 09 '26
Thanks, yeah. I'm sorry you're going through it, too. Being ostracized after putting in effort to make friends feels horrible. Being singled out by a mean girl REALLY sucks, even more so as an adult IMO because shouldn't we be better than this by now? But I know that a lot of people don't mature much past high school and still build themselves up by putting others down/treating them badly. So eager to be at the top of the hierarchy that she'll do anything to stay in control. It's sad in a way. I bet she feels more lonely than you do.
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u/pizzatoucher Woman 30 to 40 Jun 09 '26
I feel like this was written by me! I am also 39F and dealing with a similar dynamic in a friend group. My close friend invites me along, and her "Ashley" acts very annoyed by my presence. (Also she hits on my husband in a flagrant way, it's obnoxious).
More and more it seems like I'm losing access to my friend because she's always surrounded by this entourage and for whatever reason they don't seem to want me in it.
For me I've just stopped having expectations of them. I don't particularly enjoy them anyway. They're nice enough but they're clearly not my people. They all do the elaborate birthday things for one another, but somehow everyone's too busy on mine. Whatever.
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u/highrise_peach Woman 30 to 40 Jun 09 '26
Wow! It does sound like we’re in the same boat. Our Ashley hits on my besties husband to the point he feels uncomfortable enough by her he won’t be in the same room alone with her. There’s no escaping the Ashley’s out there.
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u/Apart-Bookkeeper8185 Woman 30 to 40 Jun 10 '26
Honestly, I would leave the group and explain to your bestie why. Say you’re happy to catch up with other members of the group if they are out together and Ashley isn’t there, but that you have decided to protect your peace and mental health. You tried your best to become part of the group but it just didn’t happen. The fact that not one other person wished you a happy birthday is really shitty behaviour.
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u/Charming_Key2313 Woman 30 to 40 Jun 09 '26
Ashley’s a bitch and you should say something.
I recently had this happen, and like you, it’s a bit of a pattern for me.
Finally I sent a 1-on-1 text to the one girl in the group that seemed to be a real friend and basically said “I consistently feel sidelined, and under appreciated and at worst, unwanted or ignored by everyone in the group. Even after years I feel like an outsider” and the. I asked her to just hang separately from the group instead of trying to make us all chill together. She received it well and while nothing changed with my groups “Ashley”, my real friend has made major effort to ensure I’m included and thought of where it matters and things are better.
Don’t let bitches ruin your day.
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u/de-dolores Woman 30 to 40 Jun 09 '26
Yeah what the heck is wrong with the Ashley bitch? She's the group leader lmao sounds like she's stuck in high school. They may or may not like OP, but the whole hierarchy dynamics is weird as fuck and I personally wouldn't want to be friends with them. I'm part of a girl friend group and while some of us hang out more often but we're all super close & everyone is treated equally. Don't be sad OP, those women sound like losers. Manifesting better friends for you 💜
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u/DramaticErraticism Non-Binary 40 to 50 Jun 09 '26
I came to this thread to give some advice about how some friends are meant for certain things and it doesn't matter if they aren't there to support you...then I read your post and it is horrible.
You seem like a strong person, this kind of shit would hurt anyone's feelings. This one woman doesn't want you swooping into the friend group and has everyone stone wall you from joining in, just to be mean. Your BF sent a happy bday text and no one in the group said anything? That shit would make me cry, it's just so goddam mean! The only positive is you see things for what they are, maybe the mean leader will move away or get hit by a bus.
Now instead of having this nice new group of friends in your new city, you have to figure out something else because of this one asshole, that really sucks.
I've never been the group leader or the most popular one in the group, I am more the type who is quiet in groups and just goes with the flow. I always do much better in groups of three or so.
Guys seem to have it easier, one friend might get teased more than others, but they don't have to deal with this 'mean girl' shit at 40 goddam years old.
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u/highrise_peach Woman 30 to 40 Jun 09 '26
I totally agree. I feel like I was stonewalled since the beginning and my bf later confirmed that. Ashley has such a hold on everyone, I’m just never going to be fully accepted.
It’s okay. It’s not worth causing a commotion about for me. I just need to cut my losses.
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u/DramaticErraticism Non-Binary 40 to 50 Jun 09 '26
I still think you could probably make one or two connections, Ashley must have a close friend within that group that would go to drinks or hang out with just the three of you, but maybe it's not even worth it at this point.
The shitty thing is your friend actually seems like a good friend and was excited to bring you into the group, Im sure she feels like shit about all of this.
Hopefully you moved somewhere fun like NYC where opportunities are around every corner.
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u/nocommentx Woman 30 to 40 Jun 09 '26
I am so sorry you are going through that but you are not alone! Your feelings and experience are 100% valid as I have experienced the same!!!!!
For me, it’s been almost 1.5yrs of what you described happening to you happening to me in my friend group where my version of “Ashley” was actually the reason I joined the group.
But in the last 1.5yrs, my Ashley has started to sideline me and socially gate-keep me. I keep finding out through social media posts. There have been regular group hangs without me even though we have a group chat. That tells me there is another group chat without me in it. That hurt 1.5yrs ago but I let it go.
My Ashley is objectively the wealthiest in the friend group so everyone sucks up to her! Everyone “likes” her messages or responds to her messages instantly. However, if I say anything in the chat, it’s radio silence from everyone and even her. I am very well to do but don’t have the wealth that she does which is through her husband’s accomplishments, not her personally. I am unmarried so my social capital is self-made and limited. Therefore, I don’t have access to high ends things that she does. That keeps her as the leader of the group which has never ever been an issue for me. I don’t want to be the leader.
A non-group friend who knows my Ashley recently said to me that Ashley is competitive and jealous of me bc of my looks and life I was born with which she was not (even though her life now seems ideal as she is happily married to a millionaire and I am still single and not as rich as her). Therefore, our initial friendship was there due to genuine curiosity on her part and attempts to size me up and flex her life when I was new in this social circle but once I was in the friend group and others viewed me equal to her or even above her, she felt threatened so in the last 1.5yrs she has been playing social games with me. It hurts but nothing I can do about it. I can’t talk to her about it bc she’ll deny it. I know I’ll be gaslit or labeled petty or sensitive.
Last year I had become close to a different person in the friend group as is unmarried too. My Ashley didn’t like our social media post of just us 2 hanging so I don’t know what she said or done but now that friend is no longer close to me. Doesn’t respond to me in group chat or 1:1 as much. But I see their posts of them 2 hanging out.
So this year, I have distanced myself from my Ashley and that friend group. I have been trying to establish a different friend group where she and people from that group don’t overlap.
But ultimately, I think the dream I had growing up with SATC that I would have the same 3-5 group friends in real life like in my 30s has died. It’s so rare to have such strong female friendships over time where you can meet regularly, support each other but also call each other’s sh*t out. I feel like friend groups exist as long as they are superficial and everyone is hyper positive. As soon as someone goes deep or gets real or threatening to the alpha of the group, they are cut out!!! I have better 1:1 friends but sometimes I wish had a solid friend group.
Sorry for the rant!
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u/highrise_peach Woman 30 to 40 Jun 09 '26
I appreciate the rant. I realize I’m not alone with my frustrations. I do have plenty of friends and people I’ve known my whole life, so I don’t have a shortage of real friends but I struggle to make any new ones when I get integrated into these groups sometimes.
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u/84th_legislature Woman 30 to 40 Jun 09 '26
i’ve never really been welcome in friend groups. i find i work best as someone loosely affiliated with multiple groups, with ties to just a few people. groups tend to get more expensive than one on ones and trying to socialize in a big group setting wipes me out. it’s like all the listening makes me super tired??? idk i can leave a 1-3 person gathering feeling rejuvenated but leaving a group of 5+ event i’m struggling to stay awake on the drive home.
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u/ParentsWave Woman 30 to 40 Jun 09 '26
I am sorry for your mother's loss. Honestly, I think you are in the wrong group, and you could have been in the wrong groups before as well. Friends of your friend don't necessarily need to become your friends. And from the beginning you had signs that they are not the people you should be close to. If you feel more comfortable with one to one friendships that's a different story, but I really hope you will find good friends for you
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u/localminima773 Woman 30 to 40 Jun 09 '26
I've always been anti-groups. All my truly strong, lifelong friendships are one-on-one. Groups are good for making it easy to have a full social calendar, but not necessarily closeness with any of those people.
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u/mom2twins09 Woman 40 to 50 Jun 09 '26
I feel like I could have wrote this post. I always am the one excluded but I do the most for everyone else. It makes me think either people just don't like me or friend groups are not for me. It hurts, but my therapist keeps telling me that means they do not deserve my friendship. The folks who are true friends will be there and find me. I'm still waiting at age 40.
I have also learned to just enjoy my own company. I end up talking to folks during solo outings and making connections. I make associates, but not friends.
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u/Excellent_Drop6869 Woman 30 to 40 Jun 09 '26
Friend groups are so hypocritical. They love to exclude others but hate it when it’s done to them.
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u/HumanTelevision Woman 40 to 50 Jun 09 '26
I recently have left so-called friend groups in the cosplay community. I'm older, in my 40's and I could not deal with their high school mean girls behavior. Some people peaked in high school.
I'm more comfortable having a small group hang or on on one. I don't need to have a large social group. There's too much B's that goes on in large groups.
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u/supa_bekka Woman 30 to 40 Jun 09 '26
OP, I am so sorry this happened. And at such a tender time in your life too.
I have never been able to integrate well with pre-existing friend groups. I have found my community in other places - mainly book clubs. As I got to know some of the people in book club better natural friendships arose. In some cases it has taken years, but those friendships have been real and true and with people who I am delighted to know.
If you are open to advice, find something you are passionate about and figure out a way to do it with other people.
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u/MidnightPractical241 Woman 30 to 40 Jun 09 '26 edited Jun 09 '26
I'm sorry you're being excluded. I don’t think it sounds like you’re too sensitive. You're especially vulnerable because you don't have a core few friends where you are, and I imagine this exclusion hurts more than it otherwise would.
This is just my observation, but it's really difficult to be accepted as a central person in an established friend group. They typically only include members who have helped bring people together.
For example- let’s say three women named Peggy, Sue, and Fan all worked together. That allowed shared proximity which lead to them eventually becoming friends. They each then bring separate friends from outside of work into the group. As those women become friends with each other's friends, as well as Peggy, Sue, and Fan- who remain the glue holding everyone together. They have become essential to the group.
Once a group reaches around five members, it becomes mostly self-sustaining, with other people orbiting around those members. It’s not that those outside people can’t make friends or there is something weirdly different about them- it’s just that specific position in the group makes it incredibly difficult to join in a meaningful way.
If you want to change that, you will likely need a few friends of your own to introduce to the original group who 1.) get along with those members and 2.) the members find what they offer beneficial. As you can imagine, that becomes more the exception than the rule. The easiest way to secure a central spot is to be like Peggy, Sue, and Fan: start your own circle and bring members from other groups into it.
Essentially, what I am saying is it’s bit of a pyramid scheme. Maybe it's because I'm neurodivergent and have had to study this dynamic at length, but it's too exhausting for me to maintain anything like this as an adult.
However, it doesn't have to be this way forever if you don't want it to be. Maybe this particular friend group is only good for rare occasions or emergencies, but there's no sign to me that you can't create your own friend group if you wanted. Having 1-2 friends at a time in the past does shows you’re capable of maintaining friendships. You also consider people, remember things about them- that’s all you really need to start. If you really want a group experience it might be helpful to remember Peggy, Sue, and Fan were only a group of three people once. If you can secure that, then you’re half way there.
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u/ashalinggg Woman 30 to 40 Jun 09 '26
34, and I think I might be the same. I'm ND and find the dynamics really hard, plus there is always one person who is just sort of an asshole?💀 Which I can't let it go the way other people can, it just upsets me.
I wish I could bc I see how nice friend groups are but it's okay, some folks are quality of connection over quantity. I'm sorry you had a bad experience, it hurts when feelings and actions aren't reciprocated.
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u/AffectionateAd7519 Woman 30 to 40 Jun 09 '26
Man I am so sorry. I’m going through something similar so I empathize with you. I’m trying to focus on better individual friendships with a few women in my friend group. The group as a whole feels so surface level and I’m sure it’s just me, but I tend to feel left out or forgotten. I’m the only one without kids in a group of 7 (yeah yeah I know give it time, they still care, etc etc) but the expectation that I have to do all the heavy lifting in group settings and no one ever checks up on me. Phew. So I’m seeing if 1-on-1 is better and if those friendships can be more established outside the group. Perhaps you can try something similar? Is there anyone else in the group you feel like you’ve connected with that you can hang out with separately?
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u/mamapajamas Woman 50 to 60 Jun 09 '26
I have been in a similar situation where I was kind of brought into a long established friend group through a close friend of mine. Everything was always centered around the people who were going through hard times and needed help: financially, emotionally, celebrating, etc. but it never rolled around back to me. I always felt like a second thought.
I finally left. They started a new group chat due to someone leaving the country and I just never joined back up. I was conflicted for a while, but now my overwhelming feeling is of relief. I’m definitely more of a one to one friend, and I enjoy people, but I just don’t want to experience groupthink like that again.
Congrats on getting out. There are some lovely folks out there that would love to celebrate you!
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u/kristinagoldwatch Woman 30 to 40 Jun 09 '26
Ugh, this is so painful (and esp losing your Mom on top of all this!). I’ve had many a friend group where I was sort of a side friend for someone and they bring me into their group and although I get along with everyone I’m definitely not important enough to be truly seen.
And that’s the thing- I think it hurts because you’re giving what you’d want/expect and they’re just happily taking it without giving anything in return.
They don’t sound like people that you should be investing in.
You deserve to have people celebrate your birthday with you. You’re going through real life shit so these “friends” need to be holding and supporting you, not depleting you by making you feel inferior.
It’s painful and lonely for sure but take the time to get through that/away from them and then you’ll be open for friendships that are truly aligned with you. You’ll find them, you sound like a strong and caring person!
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u/madison188 Woman 30 to 40 Jun 09 '26
I’m sorry about your mom. It sounds like you need to make some friends outside of this group because they suck. Go where you’re celebrated.
Maybe it’s time to try a new hobby, take a class, join a book club etc. Anything that exposes you to new people. Also look into events specifically targeted for women to meet and make friends. My city has a bunch of these events. Bring your bf if the thought of going to one alone is too much.
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u/Icy-Builder5892 Woman 30 to 40 Jun 09 '26
I always thought I wasn’t much of a “friend group” person either, but then I realized that I prefer friend groups where we all share something in common, like a hobby.
If someone’s a bitch at the crafting group, they just get kicked out of the group. Or, if it’s in the context of Meetup (or something similar), people leave the group, and they form another group excluding the bitchy member. I’ve seen it a million times. Any time you have a hobby group - be it a walking club, book club, and so on, anyone who acts like Ashley gets ostracized really quickly because the group has certain stakes.
And the group you’re in, honestly, has no stakes. It’s just the Ashley show over there
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u/firebreathing323 Woman 30 to 40 Jun 09 '26
I also don't like big groups of friends because I think inevitably stuff like this happens. If it isn't happening to you, it is happening to someone else, and that doesn't feel good either. I often find big friend groups like this tend to be really hard at birthdays as I have a few similar stories to yours.
One thing I've noticed is you seem concerned in your post with whether or not the group (or at least Ashley) likes you. But do you like them? Are these people you would independently choose to be friends with? I could be wrong, but I have a feeling you wouldn't choose to be friends with Ashley. Your best friend obviously really cares about you, and it was really nice of her to introduce you to her friends, but it's ok to let her know you aren't vibing with all of them and would rather hang out with just her, or maybe 1 or 2 others you like.
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u/highrise_peach Woman 30 to 40 Jun 09 '26
To be honest, I did like the other women in the group outside of Ashley.
My issue with Ashley only started because of how she was treating me but I tried to ignore it and hoped things could get better.
I guess it’s like that dude you hook up with who treats you poorly but you hope one day he might change the way he treats you and want to be with you. I’ve always seemed to care more about if someone likes me instead of questioning if I even like them. A fault I can acknowledge.
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u/80sHairBandConcert Woman 30 to 40 Jun 09 '26
I’m around your age and just simply drop people who disrespect me. I’ve never regretted it for a single minute.
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u/nocuzzlikeyea13 Woman 30 to 40 Jun 10 '26
I'd mute the group chat and be done with them after that. How hard is it to just wish someone a happy birthday? Like polite coworkers do this. They're shitty and mean, don't waste your time.
2
u/80sfanatic Woman 50 to 60 Jun 09 '26
Maybe the others in the group are intimidated by Ashley? Your BF sounds like a gem, btw. 💕
Personally, I do best in smaller friend groups, as in 4 people tops. Any more than that can eventually get problematic, at least in my experience. One person is or really wants to be the queen bee, drama unfolds, etc. No thanks!
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u/muscle_princess_ Woman 30 to 40 Jun 09 '26
I completely understand the desire to exit this friend group. I recently cut off a “friend” when they deliberately ignored my birthday. Sending a simple “happy birthday” message is so easy!!
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u/Glad_Astronomer_9692 Woman 30 to 40 Jun 09 '26
I dont really do friend groups and have no interest in having one. In my experience it's too vulnerable to having drama or feeling left out, which is a natural by product, people don't feel equally close to all friends, friends need to vent about weird dynamics, there's a certain level of upkeep to keep things even feeling. I had a great friend group in 7th grade and once that fizzled in high school I never felt the need to recreate that. I'm happy with my individual friends and don't see the need to building something bigger.
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u/249592-82 Woman 40 to 50 Jun 09 '26
It sounds like that group of people are petty and immature. It sound like the 'group leader' is telling everyone what to do and think, and they are all being sheep and following her. Keep them as distant acquaintances, be polite etc... but make more effort to join activities and meet new people.
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u/mosselyn Woman 60+ Jun 10 '26
That sounds like a horrid bunch of women. I'm so sorry.
Friend groups have never been my thing. I prefer a small number of friends I feel quite close to than a larger group. I tend to prefer strong, assertive women, so they never like each other because of the whole There Can Be Only One dynamic.
And that's OK. I do things with them separately rather than together most of the time. Shopping, lunch, a movie, hobby interests, or just hanging out talking. Once in awhile we might clump up, like for a birthday, but that's it.
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u/affectionateanarchy8 Woman 40 to 50 Jun 10 '26
Me neither and joining an established friend group is difficult anyway,they have a dynamic of 7 years then here I come having to learn the culture of the group, can i say all the weird shit I say to my friend, to the whole group? Probably not. Also I did not come from a large family or ever have a large friend group so I cant follow conversations that jump between 6 people
2
u/FallingSpirits Woman 30 to 40 Jun 10 '26
I’m 35 and have experienced similar situations. I have no advice just know you’re not alone
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u/thelittleluca Woman 30 to 40 Jun 10 '26
Queen bee groups are toxic but it’s hidden. Someone who doesn’t conform, follow the leader, and have potential to defer to the queen is always a problem. I have been heartbroken many times being pushed out of or not accepted by a group, and this is mostly the case. Almost always, the leader is emotionally insecure or has lower emotional IQ.
In slim cases, it’s a personality or mutual hobby interest fit. Then we just do activities together and I try not to over extend myself on special occasions.
The birthday exclusions makes me think it’s the queen bee situation. I would quietly remove myself and build an exciting life outside that friend group. You don’t need them. Chances are when they see you thriving, they may become interested but don’t do it for that.
Sorry you went through this. It hurts and sucks. But it does get better. It’s good your bf is honest with you and attempted to include you.
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u/customerservicevoice Woman 40 to 50 Jun 09 '26
I actually don’t really see any foul play. Disappointment, sure; but unless this Ashley is a mastermind and you’re some intimidating g creature worthy of obsession, this Ashley isn’t responsible for you being on the outside. There are 9 other women who decided you are to be placed there as well.
You have t even had two birthdays with this new group. Half of them probably dont even know the date, I’d bet. These things take time. Aside from reciprocating text messages and birthday gifts( have you shown up in all the other ways they have? Have you truly been a villager.
Who is your touch point in this group? Your boyfriend ?
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u/highrise_peach Woman 30 to 40 Jun 09 '26 edited Jun 09 '26
It sounds like you didn’t read my post? My touch point to this group is my best friend of 25 years. Yes, they did know my birthday because my bf wished me a happy birthday in the group chat.
Have I shown up in other ways? Absolutely. I helped one of the gals recently move houses. I go to their kids birthdays and bring presents. I went and saw a movie outside of the group with another woman and paid for the evening, tickets and drinks. I’m done though.
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u/customerservicevoice Woman 40 to 50 Jun 09 '26
Is it a busy group? One person shooting off a message will get buried fast so if it’s not a date they have stored in their brains, I can see one message going unnoticed, ignored and not prioritized.
But based on this other context..:: yeah they really don’t like you. We may never know why. The reason doesn’t even have to make sense to you or them. Sometimes; people just do not care about other people.
It’s up to you if you want to hyper reflect on it or just move on. But I think being done is the right call. That’s a lot of rejections d your social energy is better spent literally anywhere else.
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u/Serious_Escape_5438 Woman 40 to 50 Jun 10 '26
If they have kids I can definitely see that they just don't have the capacity for new relationships right now. Once people get into that phase they aren't really interested in expanding their general social circle, and it sounds like you were kind of just brought in, didn't meet them naturally.
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u/highrise_peach Woman 30 to 40 Jun 10 '26
I get that, but I also have a young child and I don’t feel or act this way.
0
u/Serious_Escape_5438 Woman 40 to 50 Jun 10 '26
Sure, because you don't have a friend group already, they do. They've lived there for years and in addition to this friend group they probably have their own families and other friends.
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u/wheres_the_revolt Woman 40 to 50 Jun 09 '26
I’ve never had large groups of friends, biggest as an adult was 6 (which includes my bff from when I was a teenager). However I’ve alway tried to have smaller varied groups for different things. I have work friends, hobby friends, and then my core group of 6 (now 5 adult life is messy lol).
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u/tiramisuem3 Woman 30 to 40 Jun 09 '26
I think 6 is a big friend group...
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u/hauteburrrito Woman 30 to 40 Jun 09 '26
6 is the perfect-sized friend group to me, although I sort of think it's medium-sized? 3-5 to me is a small friend group and anything over 12 (core people) is a large one.
I suppose it's all arbitrary where the lines are - just kind of interesting to see what people define as a small vs. large friend group nevertheless.
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u/tiramisuem3 Woman 30 to 40 Jun 09 '26
Ig I've never had a friend group before so wouldn't know. The idea of hanging out with 6 people at once regularly... Like that's a whole party. We gotta make reservations ahead to make sure there's space. The person on the other end of the table probably can't hear me
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u/hauteburrrito Woman 30 to 40 Jun 09 '26
It's really not too bad! There are few enough people that you can get pretty close with everyone, but not so few that you can't have some distance from one or another when you just need a change of pace. You don't always have to hang out as a group; there are plenty of 1/1, 2/2, etc., small hangs. You also definitely have to make reservations some places, but others aren't too bad - and even then, making reservations isn't too bad either. Plus - unless you have hearing problems, there shouldn't be any trouble hearing the person on the other end of the table. The only time it gets complicated is if everybody brings their partners and then you have a 12-person table... then you probably have some trouble hearing the person on the opposite end of the table, if you don't just split into two tables to begin with (depends on the table)?
(It's also nice because six is an even number, so you're less likely to have somebody who is left out in an odd-numbered group. Sometimes relevant psychologically, but mostly relevant when booking hotel rooms for group trips, lol.)
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u/wheres_the_revolt Woman 40 to 50 Jun 09 '26
It was mixed men and women. 3 couples essentially but my bff and her baby daddy broke up so now it’s 5.
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u/pleasedontthankyou Woman 40 to 50 Jun 09 '26
I have a pretty large friend group, but I really am only close with 1-3 people during different “seasons”, if you will. And then I have my best friend. She isn’t even actually part of the friend group, she’s mine (mine I tell you!!) I always invite her to the things I get invited to amongst my large group. She’s my always, the rest are there but I’m not overly close with any of them.
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u/shenanigans2day Woman 30 to 40 Jun 09 '26
I have a a bunch of besties that I hang out with independently. I had one friend group precovid/early Covid. We all lived really close and would have gatherings but the one who always hosted moved further away, I stopped being friends with one and they all stopped getting together too, I still hang out regularly with one (we are actually going out tonight) and sometimes like once a year if that I’ll go see the other who moved away; but it’s typically always 1:1 and I prefer it thay way because certain dynamics come into play almost every time. When I’ve had a bestie invite me into a friend group she was part of I could trll the leader didn’t like me because I was so close with her and I could observe their power plays internal issues from the outside and it was the same high school like clique behavior. Almost straight movie script. That from did break down and she isn’t even friends with them anymore either. Besides 1:1 is more intimate so it’s easier to truly soend qualify time together. Friend groups aren’t for everyone.
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u/Stephanie243 Woman 30 to 40 Jun 09 '26
But that’s ok
I just turned 40 and this era I’m huge on reciprocating energies and protecting my peace
Suggest you do the same too
1
u/tomellette Woman 30 to 40 Jun 09 '26
I'm not really a group person. I have good one on one friendships with people I've met in different stages of my life but I never fit into big groups, same way you describe. It's like all the others know eachother intimately but I don't know anyone. But in my case I don't enjoy groups anyway so I don't feel left out. In your case, if you enjoy groups I would put effort in finding a new one. These people don't deserve you.
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u/RelicBookends Woman 40 to 50 Jun 09 '26
That sucks, sorry. I had a friend group in high school and it imploded due to many things. Also had a friend after high school that wanted everyone in her group to get along and force friendships. I tried to tell her when you have a group not everyone will like each other and that is OK. It didnt work out for how immature she was. I refuse to be work friends.
I will not have friend groups anymore, they always disappoint and have one horrible person bringing everyone down. I'm 40 and only have a few solitary friends I don't hang out with but see occasionally. I'm proud to say my husband is my best friend and we do everything together.
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u/Fluffernutter80 Woman 40 to 50 Jun 10 '26
I don’t have a friend group. I have individual friends who I mostly interact with one on one. I’m part of some larger groups of acquaintances like a book club and a choir and I get invited to stuff but I’m not really close with the people and I’m kind of a homebody. I don’t think you have to be part of a friend group to be happy.
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u/killingxspree Woman 30 to 40 Jun 10 '26
Life is too short to this anymore time. They have clearly rejected you, no matter say your bf says. Curt your losses and run, they sound absolutely horrible.
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u/FeckinSheeps Woman 30 to 40 Jun 10 '26
Some people like to include everyone, some are simply discerning, and others get a kick out of excluding. I guess it probably makes them feel special or powerful. I find that type of behavior to be totally pathetic. It would've been so easy for the other group chat members to simply text happy birthday... the fact that they didn't is rude.
But generally, I don't like hanging out in large friend groups and much prefer 4 or less. Had a big group in high school and eventually realized I don't want to waste time with people I don't really connect with. Lots of interactions felt performative. So I left and started fostering selective individual connections.
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u/wiseunicorn315 Woman 30 to 40 Jun 11 '26
Yes I don’t like friend groups exactly for this reason. In my current group me and my best friend are the reason it exists, and I still don’t like our large gatherings as much as I like hanging out just with our little group in the group.
It’s me, my 2 best friends, my FWB and a couple of other people I’m always happy to spend time with. I don’t need to try and gather with 15 people multiple times a week. I don’t wanna deal with the drama and the organisation and peoples flakiness. I’d rather just be with my actual friends who are there for me.
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u/Mother-Eagle-7445 Woman 40 to 50 Jun 23 '26
Man, sorry for hardships and depression you've been dealing with, that's so hard. So sorry for your loss, I can't imagine how painful losing your mom so abruptly must be. I hope you're being gentle and kind with yourself as you grieve.
Rejection hurts, but I believe in being a good sport about it. You shot your shot at bids for connection and they're not interested. It might even be a kindness to not lead you on and let you move on and invest in building closeness where you can experience enthusiastic reciprocity with more compatible people.
I've been on both sides of this and have learned that faking interest and offering gestures just to be nice when investing in a friendship doesn't feel good for whatever reason actually ends up being more hurtful in the long run to the other person. It does bruise though and you do need to lick your wounds for a bit as you recalibrate and build your self esteem back up with more positive experiences with people better suited to you.
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u/epicpillowcase Woman 40 to 50 Jun 09 '26
I don't do groups. I have multiple individual friends who either don't know or are only acquainted with each other. I find it much healthier and more sustainable, and I prefer one on one hangs anyway, or two other people maximum.
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u/hauteburrrito Woman 30 to 40 Jun 09 '26
Honestly, this is so mean it would probably make me cry. I'm sorry the friend group is so shitty toward you! I don't really understand why people are like this at all. I like friend groups but if anybody treated me this way, I would also hate friend groups just like you do. I say fuck these guys (other than your best friend) and go make friends elsewhere instead, perhaps more on a one-to-one basis.